So this is the first psu with somewhat fixed 12 pin power connectors. What gpus have now? These new connectors aka do we see improved safety from now on….
GPUs have already started using the revised connector. PSUs take a bit longer to spin up, both because they don't sell through as quickly, and because there are material changes to power delivery in ATX 3.1 that had to be accounted for.
I like 48V but that would require change across the industry, like datacenters and more. Tesla is likely to go this route, they already announced a revolutionary datacenter years ago for efficiency.
The thing is though, 48V isn't all that efficient due to CPU/GPU/DRAM etc. all wanting 1.1~1.5V. The larger the step is, the less efficient the conversion becomes.
Laptops have this all figured out already, and 19.5~20V has the best power efficiency. USB-C PD allows up to 240W (48V, 5A), but no one has bothered to implement this on either end. There are no laptops with 240W USB-C input, and no chargers that do 48V, 5A output. The only 240W PD parts out are cables. The reason being the above mentioned efficiency loss when stepping down the input voltage.
I think conversion losses is even or same for specific target chip voltages. Actually, many modern PSU designs steps up voltages from the power outlet to insane numbers so that losses and AC transformer size required is minizmied then step down the voltage through solid state components or DC converters.
true but they can revolutionize efficiency in datacenters as they have existing solar and battery products and services. it's just a matter of scale which is likely the cause of delays, like they can't simply ask Nvidia to make 48 volt power AI graphics cards-unless Tesla buys so much or convince other tech giants to go 48V
Unfortunately that's a problem with the image itself (right image, wrong data), and needs to be regenerated by hand. So I'm not able to immediately fix it. I'll have Tracy upload the correct one as soon as possible.
Make sure the cable you're using is making very good and tight connections at both ends.
If there is a problem, it's much more likely to occur on the video card end of things, and those are already by and large using the new 12V-2×6 connector since it's such a quick swap.
Funny, I don't recall my phone or laptop needing a power connector dedicated to the graphics capability. They both still seem perfectly capable of running Candy Crush, oddly enough.
I think he makes a good point: isn't it rather ridiculous that high-end GPUs use so much power that they need a connector of their own? The phone, in contrast, can do a fair bit of graphics with merely a battery.
It's the idea that budget hardware can, at a fraction of the power or cost, do 60, 70, 80% of what expensive, high-end hardware can. It's not too far from thinking in a Core-Zen fashion instead of Netburst.
Fair enough. Let GPUs use the power needed to achieve their performance levels. It's better we have these than not. On the other side, many people will go on playing quite happily on phones and portable devices. I know a 'teen who games all the time on the Switch, running it on the TV too like a console. Sure, the framerates and graphics weren't the best, but not that bad either.
A somewhat unrelated question: how much has graphics in games improved, despite the advances in hardware?
I admit my phrasing the other day wasn't the best, and thank you for pointing it out. I still stand by the notion that hardware outside the high end can do much.
I think you already know the direction this is going to go, so while I understand you assign a high level of importance to video games (name checks out after all) and they fill whatever empty places there are in your life, a majority of people have other hobbies and interests.
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Dante Verizon - Thursday, May 2, 2024 - link
These tests confirm what I always say: buy a PSU with 20% more power than recommended for your system.You'll have a safety margin, the PSU will work cooler, quieter and should even last longer
haukionkannel - Thursday, May 2, 2024 - link
So this is the first psu with somewhat fixed 12 pin power connectors. What gpus have now? These new connectors aka do we see improved safety from now on….Ryan Smith - Thursday, May 2, 2024 - link
GPUs have already started using the revised connector. PSUs take a bit longer to spin up, both because they don't sell through as quickly, and because there are material changes to power delivery in ATX 3.1 that had to be accounted for.Samus - Tuesday, May 7, 2024 - link
Are these HP12V connectors backwards compatible with one another between cards, cables and PSU's?flgt - Thursday, May 2, 2024 - link
I’m know it’s tough with all the legacy hardware, but they really need to go the 48 VDC at this point if they are writing new specs.Railgun - Thursday, May 2, 2024 - link
What?zodiacfml - Friday, May 3, 2024 - link
I like 48V but that would require change across the industry, like datacenters and more. Tesla is likely to go this route, they already announced a revolutionary datacenter years ago for efficiency.meacupla - Friday, May 3, 2024 - link
The thing is though, 48V isn't all that efficient due to CPU/GPU/DRAM etc. all wanting 1.1~1.5V.The larger the step is, the less efficient the conversion becomes.
Laptops have this all figured out already, and 19.5~20V has the best power efficiency.
USB-C PD allows up to 240W (48V, 5A), but no one has bothered to implement this on either end.
There are no laptops with 240W USB-C input, and no chargers that do 48V, 5A output. The only 240W PD parts out are cables.
The reason being the above mentioned efficiency loss when stepping down the input voltage.
Scabies - Friday, May 3, 2024 - link
Framework 16 allows 240W charging. Admittedly, their best GaN adapter tops out at 180W.zodiacfml - Saturday, May 4, 2024 - link
I think conversion losses is even or same for specific target chip voltages. Actually, many modern PSU designs steps up voltages from the power outlet to insane numbers so that losses and AC transformer size required is minizmied then step down the voltage through solid state components or DC converters.Reflex - Friday, May 3, 2024 - link
Tesla announces a lot of unverifiable things. No point in doing their PR for them.zodiacfml - Saturday, May 4, 2024 - link
true but they can revolutionize efficiency in datacenters as they have existing solar and battery products and services. it's just a matter of scale which is likely the cause of delays, like they can't simply ask Nvidia to make 48 volt power AI graphics cards-unless Tesla buys so much or convince other tech giants to go 48VTheinsanegamerN - Monday, May 6, 2024 - link
That would require sweeping industry wide changes and break decades of compatibility. Fat chance that happens.ballsystemlord - Thursday, May 2, 2024 - link
@Ryan , the "hot box testing" section has 2 images of the conversion losses and 0 images of the fan curve. Please fix this. Thanks!Ryan Smith - Friday, May 3, 2024 - link
D'oh! Thank you for catching that.Unfortunately that's a problem with the image itself (right image, wrong data), and needs to be regenerated by hand. So I'm not able to immediately fix it. I'll have Tracy upload the correct one as soon as possible.
Ryan Smith - Saturday, May 4, 2024 - link
And fixed.wr3zzz - Thursday, May 2, 2024 - link
What's the safest way to use previous gen 1000W PSU for RTX4090/5090?rUmX - Friday, May 3, 2024 - link
For 5090, we don't know. That GPU didn't release yet.Ryan Smith - Friday, May 3, 2024 - link
Make sure the cable you're using is making very good and tight connections at both ends.If there is a problem, it's much more likely to occur on the video card end of things, and those are already by and large using the new 12V-2×6 connector since it's such a quick swap.
shabby - Friday, May 3, 2024 - link
Keep a fire extinguisher close by...meacupla - Friday, May 3, 2024 - link
Fire extinguisher for $40~50 is going to be like 1/100th the cost of a 5090, so it's a good investment.PeachNCream - Friday, May 3, 2024 - link
Funny, I don't recall my phone or laptop needing a power connector dedicated to the graphics capability. They both still seem perfectly capable of running Candy Crush, oddly enough.charlesg - Friday, May 3, 2024 - link
Based on your prior comments, it appears you are quite computer literate. Or know how to use ChatGPT well.Therefore I'm surprised you don't know we're talking about a PSU that is used on "above average" capability computers, and not a phone or laptop?
And not necessarily even computers that are used to play Candy Crush!
GeoffreyA - Saturday, May 4, 2024 - link
I think he makes a good point: isn't it rather ridiculous that high-end GPUs use so much power that they need a connector of their own? The phone, in contrast, can do a fair bit of graphics with merely a battery.It's the idea that budget hardware can, at a fraction of the power or cost, do 60, 70, 80% of what expensive, high-end hardware can. It's not too far from thinking in a Core-Zen fashion instead of Netburst.
TheinsanegamerN - Monday, May 6, 2024 - link
No? Nothing is stopping you from gaming on a GT 1030. Why should GPUs stop scaling at an arbitrary point?you know what's ridiculous? Comparing a multi teraflop processing unit to a cell phone then pontificating about power use.
GeoffreyA - Monday, May 6, 2024 - link
Fair enough. Let GPUs use the power needed to achieve their performance levels. It's better we have these than not. On the other side, many people will go on playing quite happily on phones and portable devices. I know a 'teen who games all the time on the Switch, running it on the TV too like a console. Sure, the framerates and graphics weren't the best, but not that bad either.A somewhat unrelated question: how much has graphics in games improved, despite the advances in hardware?
GeoffreyA - Monday, May 6, 2024 - link
I admit my phrasing the other day wasn't the best, and thank you for pointing it out. I still stand by the notion that hardware outside the high end can do much.Threska - Monday, May 6, 2024 - link
Tune into the gamedev channels on YT and you'll see it has improved quite a bit. Lots of math and that's what GPUs do best.GeoffreyA - Tuesday, May 7, 2024 - link
Thanks. It just seems to my eyes that the gains haven't been commensurate with the hardware. Crysis 3 had a big part of today's graphics a decade ago.TheinsanegamerN - Monday, May 6, 2024 - link
Cool. Run Helldivers 2 on your phone and let me know how it goes.PeachNCream - Monday, May 6, 2024 - link
I think you already know the direction this is going to go, so while I understand you assign a high level of importance to video games (name checks out after all) and they fill whatever empty places there are in your life, a majority of people have other hobbies and interests.