:/ Yeah. An open hot-pluggable passive adapter/port standard for m.2 could be neat, but this isn't that.
Meanwhile, there is an "ecosystem" of regular enclosures covering lots of use cases--form factors, capacities, cost/perf balance, etc.--and not all from one vendor. (There are incredibly cute 2230/2242 enclosures sold as pocketable little squares or chunky USB sticks!)
This was introduced 2022 and the market is so specific I can't imagine it's sold wildly. Maybe making the connector free for others to use to create more of a true 'ecosystem' would help them sell more on net?
On the "what if it *were* a standard" theme, 'm.2 2230 in a trenchcoat' would probably get the attention of users of CF Express, SD Express, etc. if it were to be a thing with multiple vendors participating, etc.
Solid performance in a basic config (one lane of PCIe3), potentially much faster when all the oomph is used (four lanes of PCIe4, maybe cooling), and most of the pieces are already being manufactured today.
I mean, first, yes, it's inherently sort of silly to imagine new standards in a random thread, but, you know, we might as well have fun.
The tradeoff vs. CFExpress would be cost/GB and cost/performance (look at 1TB CFExpress card specs and price vs. 1TB 2230) at the cost of chunkiness and, I'm guessing, power. And compared to U.2/3 1.8", you're building it around commodity drives in their form factor.
The story this links back to actually says the connector's "custom, but not proprietary," as if others *could* make compatible stuff. Would be neat if some did!
CFexpress Type-B is good for 2x NAND Flash Packages on both sides + Controller and/or 1x DRAM package. CFexpress Type-A is good for 1x NAND Flash Package on one side & Controller on other side.
A 1.8 HDD/SSD form factor is good for 16x NAND Flash Packages in total, 8x on each side of the PCB with the controller in the center and 1x DRAM Package on the other side of the controller in the center.
And let’s not neglect to remember type C. It’s dimensions 54.0 mm × 74.0 mm × 4.8 mm are almost the same as the 1.8″ form factor (54.0 mm × 71.0 mm × 5.0 mm) while being designed for removability.
I don't understand why they had to go out and design a new connector? What was wrong with EDSFF E1.S? And before you ask, there are EDSFF to M.2 NVMe 2280 adapters. They are pretty cheap too.
You and I are not their target market. They're selling a plug and play ecosystem for businesses and pros. I'm sure they'd say they need to keep quality up and can't guarantee what someone else's hardware would do, but a truly open/commodity system wouldn't give them enough profit to keep supporting this niche.
E1.S 9.5 form factor is bigger, and on a more practical note, looking at Newegg just now, Intel's DC P4511 4TB drive goes for $532.40 USD by itself* and has the same PCIe3x4 limit. And that's without any way to actually host it on a machine. Sure, if they based it on E1.S instead you could potentially buy an m.2 adapter to stick in it instead of having a native interface drive, but then you've thrown out the benefits of ease of use and swapping and not fiddling with stuff, that they're promising to business users.
Go read the bit Ganesh said, about casual users and prosumers. As a consumer I'd love E1.S to be mainstream with competitive pricing, especially since it can actually do PCIe4x4 and from looking at a Solidigm data sheet it looks like you can get up to 8TB without having to go long or wide. But it's all still a lot more expensive than even this.
*pricing could be wildly off because it's Newegg, so let me know if you find a decent retailer that stocks this form factor at a better price.
I just say it, we had the same thinking with chargers, back in the 2000s. Was it fun to carry 7 chargers doing exact same thing, but with different plug, because manufacturer cannot guarantee other people hardware, blah blah blah?
as far as I can tell, this has no merit, other than locking the hardware. if it would be more resilient to damage, offer anything related to connector or have any other advantage, then okay, but this is just pure "I want to have an apple-like ecosystem for myself" kind of thinking, and we should be harsh for that. Underneath is a STANDARD BUS POWERED device, using STANDARD protocols, with STANDARD pinout, so WHY?
The only reason for non-standard connector that does nothing, is to lock the machine from easy external access, like govt buildings, if you leave normal usb out, it's easier to steal data. But I don't see this having any anti-tampering features, so saying that's the reason is half-assed. like simple access log, or device ID-ing.
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PeachNCream - Thursday, March 7, 2024 - link
Ecosystem. Good job Western Digital! </sarcasm>twotwotwo - Thursday, March 7, 2024 - link
:/ Yeah. An open hot-pluggable passive adapter/port standard for m.2 could be neat, but this isn't that.Meanwhile, there is an "ecosystem" of regular enclosures covering lots of use cases--form factors, capacities, cost/perf balance, etc.--and not all from one vendor. (There are incredibly cute 2230/2242 enclosures sold as pocketable little squares or chunky USB sticks!)
This was introduced 2022 and the market is so specific I can't imagine it's sold wildly. Maybe making the connector free for others to use to create more of a true 'ecosystem' would help them sell more on net?
twotwotwo - Thursday, March 7, 2024 - link
On the "what if it *were* a standard" theme, 'm.2 2230 in a trenchcoat' would probably get the attention of users of CF Express, SD Express, etc. if it were to be a thing with multiple vendors participating, etc.Solid performance in a basic config (one lane of PCIe3), potentially much faster when all the oomph is used (four lanes of PCIe4, maybe cooling), and most of the pieces are already being manufactured today.
Kamen Rider Blade - Thursday, March 7, 2024 - link
Or we can use 1.8" HDD/SSD form factor & U.3 connector.Novel Idea, I know.
TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, March 7, 2024 - link
Unlike 1.8" HDDS (literally do those even still exist?) or U.3 stuff, CFexpress already exists and has existing readers.twotwotwo - Thursday, March 7, 2024 - link
I mean, first, yes, it's inherently sort of silly to imagine new standards in a random thread, but, you know, we might as well have fun.The tradeoff vs. CFExpress would be cost/GB and cost/performance (look at 1TB CFExpress card specs and price vs. 1TB 2230) at the cost of chunkiness and, I'm guessing, power. And compared to U.2/3 1.8", you're building it around commodity drives in their form factor.
The story this links back to actually says the connector's "custom, but not proprietary," as if others *could* make compatible stuff. Would be neat if some did!
Kamen Rider Blade - Friday, March 8, 2024 - link
CFexpress Type-B is good for 2x NAND Flash Packages on both sides + Controller and/or 1x DRAM package.CFexpress Type-A is good for 1x NAND Flash Package on one side & Controller on other side.
A 1.8 HDD/SSD form factor is good for 16x NAND Flash Packages in total, 8x on each side of the PCB with the controller in the center and 1x DRAM Package on the other side of the controller in the center.
LiKenun - Saturday, March 9, 2024 - link
And let’s not neglect to remember type C. It’s dimensions 54.0 mm × 74.0 mm × 4.8 mm are almost the same as the 1.8″ form factor (54.0 mm × 71.0 mm × 5.0 mm) while being designed for removability.Kamen Rider Blade - Sunday, March 10, 2024 - link
I think CFx Type-C is dead in the water compared to 1.8" HDD/SSD form factor.Just like "Dual-Link HDMI" was never ever implemented.
meacupla - Thursday, March 7, 2024 - link
I don't understand why they had to go out and design a new connector?What was wrong with EDSFF E1.S?
And before you ask, there are EDSFF to M.2 NVMe 2280 adapters. They are pretty cheap too.
artifex - Thursday, March 7, 2024 - link
You and I are not their target market. They're selling a plug and play ecosystem for businesses and pros. I'm sure they'd say they need to keep quality up and can't guarantee what someone else's hardware would do, but a truly open/commodity system wouldn't give them enough profit to keep supporting this niche.E1.S 9.5 form factor is bigger, and on a more practical note, looking at Newegg just now, Intel's DC P4511 4TB drive goes for $532.40 USD by itself* and has the same PCIe3x4 limit. And that's without any way to actually host it on a machine. Sure, if they based it on E1.S instead you could potentially buy an m.2 adapter to stick in it instead of having a native interface drive, but then you've thrown out the benefits of ease of use and swapping and not fiddling with stuff, that they're promising to business users.
Go read the bit Ganesh said, about casual users and prosumers. As a consumer I'd love E1.S to be mainstream with competitive pricing, especially since it can actually do PCIe4x4 and from looking at a Solidigm data sheet it looks like you can get up to 8TB without having to go long or wide. But it's all still a lot more expensive than even this.
*pricing could be wildly off because it's Newegg, so let me know if you find a decent retailer that stocks this form factor at a better price.
deil - Friday, March 8, 2024 - link
I just say it, we had the same thinking with chargers, back in the 2000s.Was it fun to carry 7 chargers doing exact same thing, but with different plug, because manufacturer cannot guarantee other people hardware, blah blah blah?
as far as I can tell, this has no merit, other than locking the hardware.
if it would be more resilient to damage, offer anything related to connector or have any other advantage, then okay, but this is just pure "I want to have an apple-like ecosystem for myself" kind of thinking, and we should be harsh for that.
Underneath is a STANDARD BUS POWERED device, using STANDARD protocols, with STANDARD pinout, so WHY?
The only reason for non-standard connector that does nothing, is to lock the machine from easy external access, like govt buildings, if you leave normal usb out, it's easier to steal data.
But I don't see this having any anti-tampering features, so saying that's the reason is half-assed.
like simple access log, or device ID-ing.
Kamen Rider Blade - Saturday, March 9, 2024 - link
The M.2 connector isn't designed for durability.- Connector Mating Cycle (Insert & Removal) designed Life Span
- M.2___ = ___ 50 Cycles
- SATA_ = 10,000 Cycles
- Type-C = 10,000 Cycles (MINIMUM!)