The only reason the iGPU numbers increased on PCs is that starting with Ryzen 7000 series all AMD desktop CPUs shipped with the I/O die based RDNA2/2CU graphics whereas Intel's Desktop CPUs for many generations, for the most part, came with iGPUs unless that was the F series with the iGPU disabled!
But in order for your statement to have more weight you must track the PC numbers going back at least 2 decades from now as 3 years is not sufficient there but for some shorter term trend!
I could have sworn I heard it was "Desktop PC is dying", but it leveled off in 2020. Desktop PC sales are still down by half when compared to 2010. Almost entirely gobbled up by mobile PC sales.
Honestly, with desktops now a paltry 30% of all PCs sold, it’s high time we can get a move on from ATX. Desktops are the niche market now and, IMHO, should resemble servers more than laptops (Apple be damned).
Traditionally, Intel volume only, desktop is 1/3 and Intel mobile is 2/3rds. In 2023 AMD was split 50 : 50 but AMD in 2022 a more regular 75% desktop and 25% mobile. AMD turned up mobile volume in 2023. mb
Every one of my ~20 SMB clients in the Chicago area from factories to landscapers to law firms have nothing but Windows PC's: desktops, laptops, servers, 15-50 devices each. Some VPN users have Mac's at home, which Intel or otherwise, I still classify as "PC's."
Nobody is doing real work on an iPhone\iPad or Chromebook because you are limited to an app or a website. Legacy systems from manufacturing machinery to ancient government operated tax systems require legacy IO or legacy applications (Office, SQL, or *shivers* Access DB's such as FoxPro or DotNet.)
Any before people say this stuff will eventually go away, remember, Brussels Airport runs OS\2 Warp, parts of the German transit system run Windows NT, and Chicago Ohare still has Cobol-based systems.
> flat PCIe slots (like SO-DIMM), SO-DIMM doesn't need huge heatsinks with 3 fans.
> U.2, That makes sense.
> modular front-panel connectors, That would be confusing. I'd plug in a USB flash drive and wonder why it didn't show up only to find that I failed to plug in that particular modular cable.
> etc. How about just making cases with better airflow? Like fans on the side panels as a standard feature. It really does help GPUs stay cool.
@Anton , We haven't gotten to 4th quarter this year yet. You mean 2023. "Global client PC CPU shipments hit 66 million units in the fourth quarter of 2024, ..."
Comparing 2023 JPR and Camp Marketing Annual AMD + Intel desktop and laptop PC unit volume.
My general observation is that JPR estimates have been running low. JPR's q1 through q4 2023 desktop dGPU on noting JPR's q4 upward correction and now also encompassing JPR CPU 2023.
I've observed a concerted effort by industry and certain financial analysts to under report how well 2023 actually was in terms of total PC sales and in particular AMD graphics sales albeit at a cost.
Analyst total x86 comparison subject 'net' based volume estimate.
Mike the monitor always estimates on a 'net basis'. Analyst has disqualified gross method for determining x86 production volume negating that conceals infra marginal units of production.
JPR desktop and mobile;
JPR q1 = 47 M JPR q2 = 54 M JPR q3 = 62 M JPR q4 = 66 M All up = 229 M
CM desktop and mobile on Intel gross + AMD on net not including AMD q1 PS5/Xbox/Value which adds 15 M units.
Some would say this is Apples and Oranges but I wanted to show proximate to JPR and I was not going back to the spreadsheets to calculate AMD on gross as I have disqualified the gross method of evaluation. Why? It does not cover all costs albeit can also be costly when abused to control who owns surplus production values.
CM q1 = 50,255,897 CM q2 = 56,775,499 CM q3 = 55,784,852 CM q4 = 57,613,826 All up = 220,409,874
CM desktop and mobile on Intel net + AMD on net not including AMD q1 PS5/Xbox/Value which adds 15 M units;
CM q1 = 85,417,364 CM q2 = 78,387,305 CM q3 = 80,321,303 CM q4 = 78,177,616 All up = 322,303,678 this is the one!
Adding Xeon and Epyc on Intel gross and AMD always net this is Apples and Oranges again;
CM q1 = 58,472,389 CM q2 = 64,690,938 CM q3 = 62,361,701 CM q4 = 62,981,542 All up = 248,506,569
AMD = 25.9% Intel = 74.1%
Adding Xeon and Epyc on Intel net and AMD always net this is the one!
CM q1 = 99,910,345 CM q2 = 92,623,263 CM q3 = 90,393,191 CM q4 = 90,712,121 All up = 373,638,921
AMD = 17.22% and plus 15 M q1 console = 20.42% Intel = 82.78% and including AMD console = 79.58%
Now what about dGPU?
I record no dGPU for Intel in 2023 there is so little it's immaterial and priced at cost. I record 20,574,804 dGPU for AMD in 2023 of which 92% is fabricated in 2022 and supplied into the production chain. RDNA lll also appears for mid and bottom shelf SKUs to be priced at cost.
My AMD total for the year includes q1 console at 104,053,115 and I can show up to 109 M. Leaves Intel at 290,093,610 units and approximately 73.6% production share however this negates some contract volume. AMD then up to 26.3% production share.
Subject contract and extraneous volume Intel scores up to $316 M units of production and with other that x86 up to 374 M units in 2023.
Noteworthy when this or that analyst gives their annual x86 volume that is what Intel produces because it's always been Intel's monopoly to lose. Intel does not acknowledge AMD's existence pursuant the annual production 'volume' plan.
The point is x86 production volumes including server and workstation are much higher than commercial analysts portray. The reason is inframarginal units end up as sales close, thrown into procurement bundles, and may not be reported as revenue units. This is the financial fact being concealed.
Oh and my desktop : notebook split is close to JPR although at a much higher total volume as detailed above.
Between desktop and mobile it's a 35.6% and 64.4% split respectively. Including Xeon and Epyc at 13.2%, my split is desktop is 30.9% and notebook 55.8%.
Its interesting and entirely unsurprising to see the continued decline of desktop CPU sales. There really are very few left on the market today that are in the consumer space. I would wager a healthy portion of that percentage are destined for business usage with low single digit percentages going direct to consumers as parts and very few of them are halo products that nerds use as toys for video games. The world has most certainly moved on from the box-o-fans style computer of twenty plus years ago.
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Samus - Tuesday, February 6, 2024 - link
Where are all those trolls that keep saying the PC is dead?FWhitTrampoline - Tuesday, February 6, 2024 - link
The only reason the iGPU numbers increased on PCs is that starting with Ryzen 7000 series all AMD desktop CPUs shipped with the I/O die based RDNA2/2CU graphics whereas Intel's Desktop CPUs for many generations, for the most part, came with iGPUs unless that was the F series with the iGPU disabled!But in order for your statement to have more weight you must track the PC numbers going back at least 2 decades from now as 3 years is not sufficient there but for some shorter term trend!
meacupla - Tuesday, February 6, 2024 - link
I could have sworn I heard it was "Desktop PC is dying", but it leveled off in 2020.Desktop PC sales are still down by half when compared to 2010. Almost entirely gobbled up by mobile PC sales.
kn00tcn - Thursday, February 8, 2024 - link
and what counts as a 'desktop pc sale'? not diy so it's a bad metric, offices shouldnt use clunky desktops anywayGeoffreyA - Friday, February 9, 2024 - link
It's likely that those who say that were never fond of computers in the first place.ikjadoon - Tuesday, February 6, 2024 - link
Honestly, with desktops now a paltry 30% of all PCs sold, it’s high time we can get a move on from ATX. Desktops are the niche market now and, IMHO, should resemble servers more than laptops (Apple be damned).Let’s try 24VO, flat PCIe slots (like SO-DIMM), U.2, modular front-panel connectors, etc.
evanh - Tuesday, February 6, 2024 - link
I'm surprised it's as high as 30%. Presumably that's pretty much all as gaming rigs.Bruzzone - Wednesday, February 7, 2024 - link
Traditionally, Intel volume only, desktop is 1/3 and Intel mobile is 2/3rds. In 2023 AMD was split 50 : 50 but AMD in 2022 a more regular 75% desktop and 25% mobile. AMD turned up mobile volume in 2023. mbSamus - Wednesday, February 7, 2024 - link
Every one of my ~20 SMB clients in the Chicago area from factories to landscapers to law firms have nothing but Windows PC's: desktops, laptops, servers, 15-50 devices each. Some VPN users have Mac's at home, which Intel or otherwise, I still classify as "PC's."Nobody is doing real work on an iPhone\iPad or Chromebook because you are limited to an app or a website. Legacy systems from manufacturing machinery to ancient government operated tax systems require legacy IO or legacy applications (Office, SQL, or *shivers* Access DB's such as FoxPro or DotNet.)
Any before people say this stuff will eventually go away, remember, Brussels Airport runs OS\2 Warp, parts of the German transit system run Windows NT, and Chicago Ohare still has Cobol-based systems.
ballsystemlord - Tuesday, February 6, 2024 - link
> Let’s try 24VO,But we already have 12VO...
> flat PCIe slots (like SO-DIMM),
SO-DIMM doesn't need huge heatsinks with 3 fans.
> U.2,
That makes sense.
> modular front-panel connectors,
That would be confusing. I'd plug in a USB flash drive and wonder why it didn't show up only to find that I failed to plug in that particular modular cable.
> etc.
How about just making cases with better airflow? Like fans on the side panels as a standard feature. It really does help GPUs stay cool.
ballsystemlord - Tuesday, February 6, 2024 - link
@Anton , We haven't gotten to 4th quarter this year yet. You mean 2023."Global client PC CPU shipments hit 66 million units in the fourth quarter of 2024, ..."
Bruzzone - Wednesday, February 7, 2024 - link
Comparing 2023 JPR and Camp Marketing Annual AMD + Intel desktop and laptop PC unit volume.My general observation is that JPR estimates have been running low. JPR's q1 through q4 2023 desktop dGPU on noting JPR's q4 upward correction and now also encompassing JPR CPU 2023.
I've observed a concerted effort by industry and certain financial analysts to under report how well 2023 actually was in terms of total PC sales and in particular AMD graphics sales albeit at a cost.
Analyst total x86 comparison subject 'net' based volume estimate.
Mike the monitor always estimates on a 'net basis'. Analyst has disqualified gross method for determining x86 production volume negating that conceals infra marginal units of production.
JPR desktop and mobile;
JPR q1 = 47 M
JPR q2 = 54 M
JPR q3 = 62 M
JPR q4 = 66 M
All up = 229 M
CM desktop and mobile on Intel gross + AMD on net not including AMD q1 PS5/Xbox/Value which adds 15 M units.
Some would say this is Apples and Oranges but I wanted to show proximate to JPR and I was not going back to the spreadsheets to calculate AMD on gross as I have disqualified the gross method of evaluation. Why? It does not cover all costs albeit can also be costly when abused to control who owns surplus production values.
CM q1 = 50,255,897
CM q2 = 56,775,499
CM q3 = 55,784,852
CM q4 = 57,613,826
All up = 220,409,874
CM desktop and mobile on Intel net + AMD on net not including AMD q1 PS5/Xbox/Value which adds 15 M units;
CM q1 = 85,417,364
CM q2 = 78,387,305
CM q3 = 80,321,303
CM q4 = 78,177,616
All up = 322,303,678 this is the one!
Adding Xeon and Epyc on Intel gross and AMD always net this is Apples and Oranges again;
CM q1 = 58,472,389
CM q2 = 64,690,938
CM q3 = 62,361,701
CM q4 = 62,981,542
All up = 248,506,569
AMD = 25.9%
Intel = 74.1%
Adding Xeon and Epyc on Intel net and AMD always net this is the one!
CM q1 = 99,910,345
CM q2 = 92,623,263
CM q3 = 90,393,191
CM q4 = 90,712,121
All up = 373,638,921
AMD = 17.22% and plus 15 M q1 console = 20.42%
Intel = 82.78% and including AMD console = 79.58%
Now what about dGPU?
I record no dGPU for Intel in 2023 there is so little it's immaterial and priced at cost. I record 20,574,804 dGPU for AMD in 2023 of which 92% is fabricated in 2022 and supplied into the production chain. RDNA lll also appears for mid and bottom shelf SKUs to be priced at cost.
My AMD total for the year includes q1 console at 104,053,115 and I can show up to 109 M. Leaves Intel at 290,093,610 units and approximately 73.6% production share however this negates some contract volume. AMD then up to 26.3% production share.
Subject contract and extraneous volume Intel scores up to $316 M units of production and with other that x86 up to 374 M units in 2023.
Noteworthy when this or that analyst gives their annual x86 volume that is what Intel produces because it's always been Intel's monopoly to lose. Intel does not acknowledge AMD's existence pursuant the annual production 'volume' plan.
The point is x86 production volumes including server and workstation are much higher than commercial analysts portray. The reason is inframarginal units end up as sales close, thrown into procurement bundles, and may not be reported as revenue units. This is the financial fact being concealed.
Mike Bruzzone, Camp Marketing
Bruzzone - Wednesday, February 7, 2024 - link
Oh and my desktop : notebook split is close to JPR although at a much higher total volume as detailed above.Between desktop and mobile it's a 35.6% and 64.4% split respectively. Including Xeon and Epyc at 13.2%, my split is desktop is 30.9% and notebook 55.8%.
mb
PeachNCream - Thursday, February 8, 2024 - link
Its interesting and entirely unsurprising to see the continued decline of desktop CPU sales. There really are very few left on the market today that are in the consumer space. I would wager a healthy portion of that percentage are destined for business usage with low single digit percentages going direct to consumers as parts and very few of them are halo products that nerds use as toys for video games. The world has most certainly moved on from the box-o-fans style computer of twenty plus years ago.emvonline - Wednesday, February 21, 2024 - link
So 62 to 66...in a Q4... is "soared"?IGPUs are 90% of CPU shipments.... like for the past year or more... correct? or am I misreading the numbers