My thoughts on this - Apple got a taste of their own medicine - It sucks for Apple Watch owners. Those are potentially life saving features that they lost through no fault of their own. - Masimo had their bogus patents invalidated - If Masimo's appeal fails, it looks like consumers might reap the most benefits in the long term - Life saving features locked behind a patent paywall is literally dystopian.
But then so many things that are patented could be used to save lives either directly or indirectly that the whole concept of patents practically becomes invalidated in order to avoid the aforementioned "dystopia".
Citation needed. $10 blood oximeters have been publicly available on Amazon since time immemorial. Even if it were the case that someone, somewhere, may die without it (???), one must wonder how someone could afford $350 for an Apple Watch, but not $10...while also having left a paper trail of larger filing fees in every lower court.
I have nothing nice to say about patents. The trouble is that I also have nothing nice to say about the vast majority of arguments against patents.
Let's take water as an example. In order to get water, you need a pump. Therefore, motors and wet-ends cannot be patented. Now you have to pump the water from somewhere. Therefore, all pipe, pipe fittings, and plastic polymers which could be used in pipes, all steels, coatings of steel, etc, cannot be patented. In order to get the pump to work, you need electricity. Which means that all wires, wiring harnesses, wiring boxes, wire splices, etc. cannot be patented. In order to get power in the first place you need electricity. Therefore, all generator head, gas motors, LP motors, NG motors, solar panels, wind mill blades, bases, cements, steels, etc, cannot be patented. In order to get solar panels you need semiconductors. Therefore, all lithographic equipment, all semiconductors, all resistors, all inductors, all capacitors, all clean rooms, all materials used in said production cannot be patented.
And that's just a brief overview for water. Think about what it would be like if we went into the medical device field...
about the dumbest example possible. all of the 'things' you've cited have long since exceeded their patents, if any.
more to the point: smart people do smart things because that's what they do. on one hand, you can entice an athelete to build bigger muscles (and, one hopes, perform better) by offering more moolah. on the other hand, offering people more money to be smart hasn't worked out. they ain't no 'brain push-up' yet invented.
Water is well known as a necessity of life. So it's an obvious example, but not dumb by any means.
As for exceeding their patents, you must not really be aware of what's still patented. Even reading datasheets for stuff you can find plenty of examples of patented things. Of course, it's true that the rudimentary form of many things isn't patented anymore. Even I could create a coal power plant, I'm sure, without a single patented piece to the whole thing. But who wants to burn coal? Likewise, who wants to pay for an expensive oxygen sensing system when their far less expensive watch could do the job well enough?
In the field of video codecs, patents are often a hindrance to the very technology they're supposed to protect. HEVC's adoption was slowed largely because of it, and it looks as if VVC is going to follow the same path, despite being the state of the art.
It's funny because while this isn't it, there likely ARE life-saving features for the watch that have been locked behind a liability wall for years.
The watch explicitly mentions that it cannot detect a heart attack, but that's likely because Apple doesn't need a string of billion dollar lawsuits if there's even a 0.001% chance that adding a cardiac event detection feature has a false positive or a false negative. Medical regulations are strict and play ZERO games.
You left out the part that Apple hired a lot of Masimo employees from that division to work on the exact same thing knowing full well of the patents those employees worked on. "began hiring Masimo employees, starting with Masimo's Chief Medical Officer."
Apple knew what they were doing and just hoped to out lawyer/money them.
And then hoped the appeals court would get them off the hook. Then hoped the government would get them off the hook. If that idea was essential should have been paid for right away otherwise it never should have been included in the device and work through the court system before implementing it...but Apple wanted that mega billions...
It's not potentially life-saving. The blood oxygen functionality is thoroughly half-baked. There were a ton of articles featuring doctors warning about that when the feature was first launched a few years ago.
Apple should have just bought the company outright or at least licensed the tech properly. This shotgun-poaching run-around was an asshole move and they should honestly be eating shit in court for it.
"Apple should have just bought the company outright or at least licensed the tech properly. This shotgun-poaching run-around was an asshole move and they should honestly be eating shit in court for it."
amen. If I recall correctly, didn't Steve make a Big Thing about stealing? let's go see if we can find the quote...
"Steve Jobs who famously said in 1996: "Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." " -- https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/what-steve...
I only care enough to make fun of people that buy smart watches (Apple and other brands as well) as the walking data-mined zombies paying to purchase devices that are using them to monitor their everything for additional post-sales revenue generation. Have fun crying into your beer while the rest of us popcorn time your lament that you cannot have biological data farmed from your body.
I'm too poor to buy a smart watch, but am no hater. Instead, I don't see the point of complicating a time-keeping device. After all, simplicity is best.
Do you own a phone? If so, you're ok with companies tracking your every move/location, everyone you call, friends/family/coworker/side-piece, all the targeting ads, scheduling, etc.. but the thing your worried about is an oxygen meter or a step counter. Honestly, who cares, "They" already have more than enough information for the coming dystopian future an whatever device you're typing on.
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meacupla - Thursday, January 18, 2024 - link
My thoughts on this- Apple got a taste of their own medicine
- It sucks for Apple Watch owners. Those are potentially life saving features that they lost through no fault of their own.
- Masimo had their bogus patents invalidated
- If Masimo's appeal fails, it looks like consumers might reap the most benefits in the long term
- Life saving features locked behind a patent paywall is literally dystopian.
bwanaaa - Thursday, January 18, 2024 - link
'Life saving features locked behind a patent paywall is patently dystopian.'ballsystemlord - Thursday, January 18, 2024 - link
But then so many things that are patented could be used to save lives either directly or indirectly that the whole concept of patents practically becomes invalidated in order to avoid the aforementioned "dystopia".brantron - Thursday, January 18, 2024 - link
Citation needed. $10 blood oximeters have been publicly available on Amazon since time immemorial. Even if it were the case that someone, somewhere, may die without it (???), one must wonder how someone could afford $350 for an Apple Watch, but not $10...while also having left a paper trail of larger filing fees in every lower court.I have nothing nice to say about patents. The trouble is that I also have nothing nice to say about the vast majority of arguments against patents.
ballsystemlord - Friday, January 19, 2024 - link
Okay, you asked for it.Let's take water as an example.
In order to get water, you need a pump. Therefore, motors and wet-ends cannot be patented. Now you have to pump the water from somewhere. Therefore, all pipe, pipe fittings, and plastic polymers which could be used in pipes, all steels, coatings of steel, etc, cannot be patented. In order to get the pump to work, you need electricity. Which means that all wires, wiring harnesses, wiring boxes, wire splices, etc. cannot be patented. In order to get power in the first place you need electricity. Therefore, all generator head, gas motors, LP motors, NG motors, solar panels, wind mill blades, bases, cements, steels, etc, cannot be patented. In order to get solar panels you need semiconductors. Therefore, all lithographic equipment, all semiconductors, all resistors, all inductors, all capacitors, all clean rooms, all materials used in said production cannot be patented.
And that's just a brief overview for water. Think about what it would be like if we went into the medical device field...
FunBunny2 - Friday, January 19, 2024 - link
"Let's take water as an example."
about the dumbest example possible. all of the 'things' you've cited have long since exceeded their patents, if any.
more to the point: smart people do smart things because that's what they do. on one hand, you can entice an athelete to build bigger muscles (and, one hopes, perform better) by offering more moolah. on the other hand, offering people more money to be smart hasn't worked out. they ain't no 'brain push-up' yet invented.
ballsystemlord - Friday, January 19, 2024 - link
Water is well known as a necessity of life. So it's an obvious example, but not dumb by any means.As for exceeding their patents, you must not really be aware of what's still patented. Even reading datasheets for stuff you can find plenty of examples of patented things.
Of course, it's true that the rudimentary form of many things isn't patented anymore. Even I could create a coal power plant, I'm sure, without a single patented piece to the whole thing. But who wants to burn coal?
Likewise, who wants to pay for an expensive oxygen sensing system when their far less expensive watch could do the job well enough?
GeoffreyA - Saturday, January 20, 2024 - link
In the field of video codecs, patents are often a hindrance to the very technology they're supposed to protect. HEVC's adoption was slowed largely because of it, and it looks as if VVC is going to follow the same path, despite being the state of the art.ballsystemlord - Sunday, January 21, 2024 - link
GeoffreyA, I totally agree with you. Patents can indeed be a hindrance. They can be overused and misused.mukiex - Friday, January 19, 2024 - link
It's funny because while this isn't it, there likely ARE life-saving features for the watch that have been locked behind a liability wall for years.The watch explicitly mentions that it cannot detect a heart attack, but that's likely because Apple doesn't need a string of billion dollar lawsuits if there's even a 0.001% chance that adding a cardiac event detection feature has a false positive or a false negative. Medical regulations are strict and play ZERO games.
Threska - Thursday, January 18, 2024 - link
Paying for things is dystopian. /s Why can't everything be free?Mikewind Dale - Thursday, January 18, 2024 - link
Because if everything is free, there's nothing to have.Free food means we all starve. Free housing means we're all homeless.
GeoffreyA - Friday, January 19, 2024 - link
Do you mean "have" in the sense of want or possess?Even if some class of things were free, ultimately it is not truly so, but coming at the cost of something in the universe.
FunBunny2 - Friday, January 19, 2024 - link
"Free food means we all starve. Free housing means we're all homeless."so: for the 1% to be fat and comfortable, it's just cause for the 99% to be hungry and unhoused?
Marlin1975 - Thursday, January 18, 2024 - link
You left out the part that Apple hired a lot of Masimo employees from that division to work on the exact same thing knowing full well of the patents those employees worked on."began hiring Masimo employees, starting with Masimo's Chief Medical Officer."
Apple knew what they were doing and just hoped to out lawyer/money them.
hackztor2 - Sunday, January 21, 2024 - link
And then hoped the appeals court would get them off the hook. Then hoped the government would get them off the hook. If that idea was essential should have been paid for right away otherwise it never should have been included in the device and work through the court system before implementing it...but Apple wanted that mega billions...mukiex - Friday, January 19, 2024 - link
It's not potentially life-saving. The blood oxygen functionality is thoroughly half-baked. There were a ton of articles featuring doctors warning about that when the feature was first launched a few years ago.Apple should have just bought the company outright or at least licensed the tech properly. This shotgun-poaching run-around was an asshole move and they should honestly be eating shit in court for it.
FunBunny2 - Friday, January 19, 2024 - link
"Apple should have just bought the company outright or at least licensed the tech properly. This shotgun-poaching run-around was an asshole move and they should honestly be eating shit in court for it."amen. If I recall correctly, didn't Steve make a Big Thing about stealing? let's go see if we can find the quote...
"Steve Jobs who famously said in 1996: "Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." "
-- https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/what-steve...
you're only a crook if you get caught.
GeoffreyA - Thursday, January 18, 2024 - link
Let's all hold hands and cry for Apple in solidarity.PeachNCream - Thursday, January 18, 2024 - link
I only care enough to make fun of people that buy smart watches (Apple and other brands as well) as the walking data-mined zombies paying to purchase devices that are using them to monitor their everything for additional post-sales revenue generation. Have fun crying into your beer while the rest of us popcorn time your lament that you cannot have biological data farmed from your body.DigitalFreak - Thursday, January 18, 2024 - link
No need to be a hater just because you're too poor to be able to afford a smart watch.GeoffreyA - Saturday, January 20, 2024 - link
I'm too poor to buy a smart watch, but am no hater. Instead, I don't see the point of complicating a time-keeping device. After all, simplicity is best.sygreenblum - Thursday, January 18, 2024 - link
Do you own a phone? If so, you're ok with companies tracking your every move/location, everyone you call, friends/family/coworker/side-piece, all the targeting ads, scheduling, etc.. but the thing your worried about is an oxygen meter or a step counter. Honestly, who cares, "They" already have more than enough information for the coming dystopian future an whatever device you're typing on.PeachNCream - Friday, January 19, 2024 - link
There are several logical fallacies among your attempt to retort.