What is the render configuration of all the Ryzen 8000G series iGPUs in the Form of Shaders:TMUs:ROPs and is that the same for the 8000G series as for the mobile 7040/8040 iGPU variants?
I'd love to see a Ryzen 770M with all 4 Render Back Ends(RBE) enabled and so 32ROPs and just 8CUs instead of 12CUs. The current 760M has 8CUs across 2 Shader Arrays but only has half the RBEs on both Shader arrays enabled.
And Note: That the only way for any Ryzen 600M/700M series iGPU to have 8CUs enabled is if Both Shader Arrays are enabled[See the AMD iGPU Block Diagrams for the Radeon 600M/700M series iGPUs]
I wish the 8600G came with 12CU I think a 7840HS mini PC would be cheaper and faster than something built around an 8600G, if you aren't going to bother sticking a GPU in it.
Which is still not Meteor Lake, because Meteor Lake doesn't cover 65W parts. Exclusively in the 28/35W targets (and maybe the 15 but frankly I think that launch is a paper launch that won't ship in volume).
Even now you can get a cheap mini pc for $669.00 for example: minisforum UM790 Pro with AMD 7940HS, 32GB ram and 512 SSD or T-bao MN78 7840HS 16/512 for $599.
Hasn't really changed. The first digit is roughly analogous to the hardware version, the second digit is the performance bracket, the last 2 digits are for variations in that performance bracket.
APUs tend to increase the first digit and add a G to the end.
1000 --> Zen1
2000G --> Zen1 + iGPU (APUs) 2000 --> Zen1+
3000 --> Zen2 3000G --> Zen2 + iGPU (APUs)
(These ones weren't really advertised much. Not sure if they actually exist in the wild.) 4000 --> 4000G dies with the iGPU disabled 4000G --> Zen2 + iGPU (APUs)
5000 --> Zen3 5000G --> Zen3 + iGPU (APUs)
7000 --> Zen4 7000G --> Zen 4 + iGPU (APUs)
The mobile model numbers tended to be 1000 higher than the desktop model numbers (1000 on desktop, 2000 on mobile). They tried to bring them together with Ryzen 5000 model numbers on desktop and mobile. Then went separate ways again with Ryzen 7000 (desktop) and yearly-incrementing model numbers on mobile (Ryzen 70x0 in 2023, 80x0 in 2024, 90x0 in 2025, etc with the second-last digit showing Zen hardware version).
I set a friend up with a 7840HS mini PC for normal desktop use a couple weeks back using DDR5-5600 with 40-40-40 timings. I ran a full suite of benchmarks on it. While quite good all things considered, I was expecting a bit more out of the iGPU and can't help but wonder how much it is being held back by the relatively slow DDR5.
A potential advantage of the 8000G series over mobile is the option to slot in much faster RAM. The mobile parts can be equipped with up to 5600MT/s DDR5 or 7500MT/s LPDDR5X (soldered), but all at JEDEC timings.
On a desktop board, they should be able to run much tighter timings and higher MT/s through XMP or EXPO which should theoretically alleviate any potential memory bottlenecks.
It's definitely held back by DRAM bandwidth. The ROG Ally scaled almost linearly when someone modded 7500 (stock is 6400) memory into theirs. The 780M carries the same hardware configuration as the RX 6400 which has the equivalent bandwidth of a dual channel DDR5 8000 kit. Keeping in mind the RX 6400 is RDNA 2 not 3 and clocks much lower than the 780M and it's really clear memory bandwidth is a problem.
You can push them further, and not necessarily with all that much voltage, but it's liable to take time testing and tuning. I got DDR5-5600 CAS 40 to DDR5-5974 (5800 * 102.6 BCLK), one DIMM/PMIC on 1.215 VDD[Q], the other on 1.26/1.245 VDD/VDDQ. It's also worth looking at the Infinity Fabric since that acts as gatekeeper to the RAM.
Nah that's actually way more viable than last gen. PCIe 4 x20 total lanes will be plenty because saturating PCIe 4 x8 is quite hard to do. The problem last gen was not just the lane count, it's that they were PCIe 3 during a period where Nvidia and AMD shipped an x8 and x4 card respectively.
Even on PCIe 3, the Nvidia card barely ran into issues. You basically had to run a 5800X3D with PCIe support limited to PCIe 3 if you wanted to create a gap. The 6500 and 6400 with x4 buses were a different story, and they were the headlining story.
As long as you don't buy a PCIe 5 x4 GPU, it'll be fine.
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FWhitTrampoline - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
What is the render configuration of all the Ryzen 8000G series iGPUs in the Form of Shaders:TMUs:ROPs and is that the same for the 8000G series as for the mobile 7040/8040 iGPU variants?I'd love to see a Ryzen 770M with all 4 Render Back Ends(RBE) enabled and so 32ROPs and just 8CUs instead of 12CUs. The current 760M has 8CUs across 2 Shader Arrays but only has half the RBEs on both Shader arrays enabled.
And Note: That the only way for any Ryzen 600M/700M series iGPU to have 8CUs enabled is if Both Shader Arrays are enabled[See the AMD iGPU Block Diagrams for the Radeon 600M/700M series iGPUs]
meacupla - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
I wish the 8600G came with 12CUI think a 7840HS mini PC would be cheaper and faster than something built around an 8600G, if you aren't going to bother sticking a GPU in it.
HarryVoyager - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
You're waiting for Strix Point. This is about strangling Meteor Lake in its cradle.bubblyboo - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
A desktop APU is going to strangle Meteor Lake in its cradle?Very insightful.
kn00tcn - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
these are the same chips as mobile, meteor lake desktop was cancelled, seems you are the one lacking insightHarryVoyager - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
I'll admit, I thought these were the laptop chips, so bit of both on both of us :)Samus - Tuesday, January 9, 2024 - link
Considering Intel's 14th gen HX chips use 55w and like 135w peak, these might as well be in the same category.lmcd - Wednesday, January 10, 2024 - link
Which is still not Meteor Lake, because Meteor Lake doesn't cover 65W parts. Exclusively in the 28/35W targets (and maybe the 15 but frankly I think that launch is a paper launch that won't ship in volume).siemka - Thursday, January 11, 2024 - link
Even now you can get a cheap mini pc for $669.00 for example: minisforum UM790 Pro with AMD 7940HS, 32GB ram and 512 SSD or T-bao MN78 7840HS 16/512 for $599.BPB - Thursday, January 11, 2024 - link
I'm seeing $669 for the UM790 Pro with AMD 7940HS, 32 GB and 512 GB SSDnfriedly - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
Shouldn't these all have a 4 as the third digit, rather than a 0? Didn't AMD just make up that naming scheme one generation ago?(I guess Zen 4c throws a small wrench into things, but still...)
Tom_Yum - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
From memory, that naming convention only applies to their mobile range, not desktop.Farfolomew - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
Good call, AMD is being confusing and not sticking to their planmeacupla - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
No, but only because that silly naming contraption applies to mobile parts.Desktop CPUs use a different naming convention entirely.
shabby - Monday, January 15, 2024 - link
Must have missed the memo, what's the desktop naming scheme like?phoenix_rizzen - Monday, January 15, 2024 - link
Hasn't really changed. The first digit is roughly analogous to the hardware version, the second digit is the performance bracket, the last 2 digits are for variations in that performance bracket.APUs tend to increase the first digit and add a G to the end.
1000 --> Zen1
2000G --> Zen1 + iGPU (APUs)
2000 --> Zen1+
3000 --> Zen2
3000G --> Zen2 + iGPU (APUs)
(These ones weren't really advertised much. Not sure if they actually exist in the wild.)
4000 --> 4000G dies with the iGPU disabled
4000G --> Zen2 + iGPU (APUs)
5000 --> Zen3
5000G --> Zen3 + iGPU (APUs)
7000 --> Zen4
7000G --> Zen 4 + iGPU (APUs)
The mobile model numbers tended to be 1000 higher than the desktop model numbers (1000 on desktop, 2000 on mobile). They tried to bring them together with Ryzen 5000 model numbers on desktop and mobile. Then went separate ways again with Ryzen 7000 (desktop) and yearly-incrementing model numbers on mobile (Ryzen 70x0 in 2023, 80x0 in 2024, 90x0 in 2025, etc with the second-last digit showing Zen hardware version).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_pr...
MrCommunistGen - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
I set a friend up with a 7840HS mini PC for normal desktop use a couple weeks back using DDR5-5600 with 40-40-40 timings. I ran a full suite of benchmarks on it. While quite good all things considered, I was expecting a bit more out of the iGPU and can't help but wonder how much it is being held back by the relatively slow DDR5.A potential advantage of the 8000G series over mobile is the option to slot in much faster RAM. The mobile parts can be equipped with up to 5600MT/s DDR5 or 7500MT/s LPDDR5X (soldered), but all at JEDEC timings.
On a desktop board, they should be able to run much tighter timings and higher MT/s through XMP or EXPO which should theoretically alleviate any potential memory bottlenecks.
meacupla - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
There are DDR5 SODIMM 6000 and 6400 kits.However it's up to the individual makers to support the 1.35V required to run them.
thestryker - Monday, January 8, 2024 - link
It's definitely held back by DRAM bandwidth. The ROG Ally scaled almost linearly when someone modded 7500 (stock is 6400) memory into theirs. The 780M carries the same hardware configuration as the RX 6400 which has the equivalent bandwidth of a dual channel DDR5 8000 kit. Keeping in mind the RX 6400 is RDNA 2 not 3 and clocks much lower than the 780M and it's really clear memory bandwidth is a problem.GreenReaper - Friday, January 26, 2024 - link
You can push them further, and not necessarily with all that much voltage, but it's liable to take time testing and tuning. I got DDR5-5600 CAS 40 to DDR5-5974 (5800 * 102.6 BCLK), one DIMM/PMIC on 1.215 VDD[Q], the other on 1.26/1.245 VDD/VDDQ. It's also worth looking at the Infinity Fabric since that acts as gatekeeper to the RAM.peevee - Tuesday, January 9, 2024 - link
I like 8700G actually, except for PCIe 4 (and only 20 lines), basically making GPU upgrade in the future unlikely. Too bad.lmcd - Wednesday, January 10, 2024 - link
Nah that's actually way more viable than last gen. PCIe 4 x20 total lanes will be plenty because saturating PCIe 4 x8 is quite hard to do. The problem last gen was not just the lane count, it's that they were PCIe 3 during a period where Nvidia and AMD shipped an x8 and x4 card respectively.Even on PCIe 3, the Nvidia card barely ran into issues. You basically had to run a 5800X3D with PCIe support limited to PCIe 3 if you wanted to create a gap. The 6500 and 6400 with x4 buses were a different story, and they were the headlining story.
As long as you don't buy a PCIe 5 x4 GPU, it'll be fine.
peevee - Tuesday, January 9, 2024 - link
Do they come with coolers?nandnandnand - Wednesday, January 10, 2024 - link
8700G and 8600G come with a Wraith Spire, 8500G with Wraith Stealth, according to TechPowerUp.Findecanor - Saturday, January 13, 2024 - link
I hate AI so much right now.I solemnly swear that the next CPU I'm going to buy is going to be one WITHOUT any NPU on it !
nandnandnand - Saturday, January 13, 2024 - link
I will buy Strix products specifically to get the better NPU.andrewaggb - Thursday, January 18, 2024 - link
I want to see what sort of software support and performance these NPU's deliver.haukionkannel - Tuesday, January 23, 2024 - link
Then you have to buy old CPU… all new ones will have hefty AI power!Dante Verizon - Sunday, January 14, 2024 - link
It should be called 7700G...