Everyone has knowledge shortcomings and lacks awareness of how things their safety or comfort depends upon actually function. To learn enough about one component of a computer to make an informed decision is a burden on the average person they don't need to bear because it ultimately doesn't matter what a home computer user buys as everything on the market is sufficient to accomplish essential functions. The extra capabilities that nerds fawn over are generally insignificant and boil down to duplicating functions a PlayStation or XBox do at greater cost efficiency.
I'm guessing you're referring to consoles versus PCs as gaming platforms? That depends on a lot of factors so it would be difficult to determine without a specific scenario.
Product cycle is slower than CPU's cycles. So adjustments are needed. On Amazon you find plenty of 5*** laptops and hardly any 7***; yet, we're talking about 8***. The laptop "everyone" wants is the one with the 7840U in it. Good luck finding one (and if you find it, prepare to have to give out an eye for it).
That said, the naming scheme is known for years now, and while I dislike mixing in a 7*** series CPU with Zen2, Zen3 and Zen4, it is totally transparent. There are definitely worse naming schemes around.
Lenovo has the 7840 & 7540-based ThinkPad T14s Gen 4 on sale for < $1k USD. Available now & ready to ship. Now if only Dell would start offering more AMD low-power models!
"7000" series could have been named Ryzen 5000 (2023), Ryzen 6000 (2023) 7000 (2023) And then for 8000 series, we could have had Ryzen (2024)
Cars followed the "Make, Model, Year, Trim level" naming model for decades at this point, so most people can understand it without explaining in great detail.
Cars model naming come with their own problems, a few examples: BMW once had their model numbers tell the engine size ie. a 525 was a 5-series with a 2.5 liter engine, that went away when they started doing turbo engines. And then there is the whole model year nonsense, some makers have had their 2024 models out for a while and the first "2025" is just about here. And as for trim level, lets just say the level designation is a mess with many brands - it seems a certain degree of inflation has been going on.
It is about more to it than just what Zen is used, like for example the nm production method matter a good deal. If you want to talk rebranding then Intel is much much worse with their "generations" BS.
In this case, it sounds like they are specifically punking Intel. Based on what's leaking out about Meteor Lake, it's CPU and GPU performance isn't going to be better than Phoenix, so they were going to push it's AI performance.
Except Hawkpoint just bumped that up by 40%. Which, if the rumors are on point, would mean Meteor Lake would pull off the "hat trick" of being worse in CPU performance, integrated graphics performance, and AI performance, and cost more, right after Intel did a big AI marketing push.
Which would be really funny and reasonably justify a low effort refresh on AMD's part.
Moore's Law is dead, so manufacturing improvements basically don't even matter anymore and all the improvements have to come from raw architecture changes, cache changes, bus and interface designs, and OS integration the way Intel has done with Microsoft.
I haven't read anything about AMD doing the same thing with Windows 11, deep scheduler integration. But if they don't Intel is going to take a commanding lead as the years roll on. Does anyone know about AMD making a deal like that with Microsoft? Presumably they can given their relationship in gaming, and odd that Microsoft even did that with Intel given their beef over the original Xbox.
Because they are not ready with Zen5 until 2h24...but actually, there is something that makes me hopeful: no 8030 nor, God forbid, 8020 announced...this means that a laptop manufacturer who wants their product to appear "new" will have to offer Zen 4 parts.
Which are still the best in the x86 world and until now very hard to come by...
I guess the upside is that my 7840u laptop is going to continue being current-gen for another year.
> On the flip side, the Ryzen 3 8440U is still a distinct upgrade over the previous Ryzen 3 7440U, which it replaces and is based on the older Zen 3 microarchitecture.
That seems wrong. Based on the model number, the 7440U ought to be Zen 4. (TechPowerUp's database also lists that chip as being zen 4.) I don't think there are any upgrades here, just straight rebadges.
Oh nice, so 99% of the 800s are going to be rebranded 5000s at this rate. the few actually new 8000 series will be effectively 7000s as they have no increase in iGPU core count. And people wonder why intel still dominates the mobile market.
The reason Intel dominates mobile market is because AMD hasn't provided the number of chips necessary, and because AMD mobile system drivers are kinda bad. AMD relies too heavily on TSMC, and TSMC has no spare capacity left over. Where as Intel fabricates their own chips on a worse node, and don't have issues with capacity.
It's not because AMD rebrands their mobile chips. Intel still doesn't have a proper answer to the 7840U when it comes to performance and battery life. They are going to have even more catching up to do when Zen5 rolls around.
If you want easily available and reliable system drivers, that's what Intel mobile offers.
I can't find laptops with dedicated AMD GPU's anywhere. I'm typing this on one with a 5600M but there aren't any 6600M or 7600M laptops out there at all. What's going on? Has AMD just given up on laptops? Kinda weird given how much bigger that market is than Desktops.
it's the OEMs that dont bother, and they also want an nvidia sticker because consumers supposedly want to see that (which is why there are meteor lake laptops with nvidia)
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Dante Verizon - Wednesday, December 6, 2023 - link
Rebrands... Whyy.meacupla - Wednesday, December 6, 2023 - link
My guess, it's because laptop makers want to sell a "new" model every year and using an older CPU model doesn't have as much margin at big box stores.That and AMD is really bad at naming schemes.
Terry_Craig - Wednesday, December 6, 2023 - link
I would assert that a portion of the responsibility lies with the lack of awareness among the general public.PeachNCream - Thursday, December 7, 2023 - link
Everyone has knowledge shortcomings and lacks awareness of how things their safety or comfort depends upon actually function. To learn enough about one component of a computer to make an informed decision is a burden on the average person they don't need to bear because it ultimately doesn't matter what a home computer user buys as everything on the market is sufficient to accomplish essential functions. The extra capabilities that nerds fawn over are generally insignificant and boil down to duplicating functions a PlayStation or XBox do at greater cost efficiency.markiz - Thursday, December 7, 2023 - link
What about energy efficiency?PeachNCream - Friday, December 8, 2023 - link
I'm guessing you're referring to consoles versus PCs as gaming platforms? That depends on a lot of factors so it would be difficult to determine without a specific scenario.yankeeDDL - Thursday, December 7, 2023 - link
Product cycle is slower than CPU's cycles. So adjustments are needed. On Amazon you find plenty of 5*** laptops and hardly any 7***; yet, we're talking about 8***.The laptop "everyone" wants is the one with the 7840U in it. Good luck finding one (and if you find it, prepare to have to give out an eye for it).
That said, the naming scheme is known for years now, and while I dislike mixing in a 7*** series CPU with Zen2, Zen3 and Zen4, it is totally transparent. There are definitely worse naming schemes around.
romrunning - Thursday, December 7, 2023 - link
Lenovo has the 7840 & 7540-based ThinkPad T14s Gen 4 on sale for < $1k USD. Available now & ready to ship. Now if only Dell would start offering more AMD low-power models!bananaforscale - Friday, December 8, 2023 - link
Why Dell?meacupla - Thursday, December 7, 2023 - link
"7000" series could have been named Ryzen 5000 (2023), Ryzen 6000 (2023) 7000 (2023)And then for 8000 series, we could have had Ryzen (2024)
Cars followed the "Make, Model, Year, Trim level" naming model for decades at this point, so most people can understand it without explaining in great detail.
BZD - Thursday, December 7, 2023 - link
Cars model naming come with their own problems, a few examples:BMW once had their model numbers tell the engine size ie. a 525 was a 5-series with a 2.5 liter engine, that went away when they started doing turbo engines. And then there is the whole model year nonsense, some makers have had their 2024 models out for a while and the first "2025" is just about here.
And as for trim level, lets just say the level designation is a mess with many brands - it seems a certain degree of inflation has been going on.
TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, December 7, 2023 - link
Because AMD doesnt care about you. Squeezing money out of the illiterate is more their speed now.BZD - Thursday, December 7, 2023 - link
It is about more to it than just what Zen is used, like for example the nm production method matter a good deal. If you want to talk rebranding then Intel is much much worse with their "generations" BS.HarryVoyager - Tuesday, December 12, 2023 - link
In this case, it sounds like they are specifically punking Intel. Based on what's leaking out about Meteor Lake, it's CPU and GPU performance isn't going to be better than Phoenix, so they were going to push it's AI performance.Except Hawkpoint just bumped that up by 40%. Which, if the rumors are on point, would mean Meteor Lake would pull off the "hat trick" of being worse in CPU performance, integrated graphics performance, and AI performance, and cost more, right after Intel did a big AI marketing push.
Which would be really funny and reasonably justify a low effort refresh on AMD's part.
Hrel - Tuesday, December 19, 2023 - link
Moore's Law is dead, so manufacturing improvements basically don't even matter anymore and all the improvements have to come from raw architecture changes, cache changes, bus and interface designs, and OS integration the way Intel has done with Microsoft.I haven't read anything about AMD doing the same thing with Windows 11, deep scheduler integration. But if they don't Intel is going to take a commanding lead as the years roll on. Does anyone know about AMD making a deal like that with Microsoft? Presumably they can given their relationship in gaming, and odd that Microsoft even did that with Intel given their beef over the original Xbox.
Ptosio - Tuesday, December 19, 2023 - link
Because they are not ready with Zen5 until 2h24...but actually, there is something that makes me hopeful: no 8030 nor, God forbid, 8020 announced...this means that a laptop manufacturer who wants their product to appear "new" will have to offer Zen 4 parts.Which are still the best in the x86 world and until now very hard to come by...
nfriedly - Wednesday, December 6, 2023 - link
I guess the upside is that my 7840u laptop is going to continue being current-gen for another year.> On the flip side, the Ryzen 3 8440U is still a distinct upgrade over the previous Ryzen 3 7440U, which it replaces and is based on the older Zen 3 microarchitecture.
That seems wrong. Based on the model number, the 7440U ought to be Zen 4. (TechPowerUp's database also lists that chip as being zen 4.) I don't think there are any upgrades here, just straight rebadges.
Ryan Smith - Thursday, December 7, 2023 - link
You are correct. It's an editing error on our part (we cut a section about there being no Zen 3 chips). Thanks!bernstein - Wednesday, December 6, 2023 - link
So nothing new here… lets move on.shabby - Thursday, December 7, 2023 - link
Yup, in 2025 this still be the 9040.TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, December 7, 2023 - link
Oh nice, so 99% of the 800s are going to be rebranded 5000s at this rate. the few actually new 8000 series will be effectively 7000s as they have no increase in iGPU core count. And people wonder why intel still dominates the mobile market.meacupla - Thursday, December 7, 2023 - link
The reason Intel dominates mobile market is because AMD hasn't provided the number of chips necessary, and because AMD mobile system drivers are kinda bad. AMD relies too heavily on TSMC, and TSMC has no spare capacity left over.Where as Intel fabricates their own chips on a worse node, and don't have issues with capacity.
It's not because AMD rebrands their mobile chips.
Intel still doesn't have a proper answer to the 7840U when it comes to performance and battery life. They are going to have even more catching up to do when Zen5 rolls around.
If you want easily available and reliable system drivers, that's what Intel mobile offers.
Hrel - Tuesday, December 19, 2023 - link
I can't find laptops with dedicated AMD GPU's anywhere. I'm typing this on one with a 5600M but there aren't any 6600M or 7600M laptops out there at all. What's going on? Has AMD just given up on laptops? Kinda weird given how much bigger that market is than Desktops.kn00tcn - Thursday, January 4, 2024 - link
it's the OEMs that dont bother, and they also want an nvidia sticker because consumers supposedly want to see that (which is why there are meteor lake laptops with nvidia)