"Both of these drives are further enhanced with OptiNAND to improve performance by storing repeatable runout (RRO) metadata on NAND memory (instead of on disks) and improve reliability."
And where would I find it? In a pdf datasheet? On the main page? Hidden in a tab somewhere on the product page? Placed in a more general area where no one would ever guess to look? Maybe it's an old technique, like RLL coding, that's now being used on NAND and so I'd never find this info unless I was at some archaic HDD place at the right time?
I don't mean to be difficult, but this is not like front page news where you google it and get instant results.
Thanks for the response, interesting reading. I also just now found an article that answers my question above - seems CMR has a good bit of life left yet with ePMR (CMR), as follows:- "Western Digital's roadmap includes the 2nd Generation ePMR 2 platform, which allows for areal densities over 1.3 Tb/inch2 (an 18% over ePMR). Such areal density will enable the company to build 3.5-inch platters with a capacity of over 3.5 TB. Thus Western Digital will be able to offer HDDs with a ~36 TB capacity featuring 10 of such disks in the coming quarters. Meanwhile, the company says this technology will be used for CMR HDDs with 24 TB – 30+ TB capacity points".
Ok, I'll bite and Google duckduckgo it for you... "Optinand What happens when the power fails?" -> click first link that popped up: https://blog.westerndigital.com/optinand/ quote from page:
“"When we have non-volatile cache available, we have enough energy in the drive to take the data and write it to the NAND before any data is lost,” Boyle said. “When write-cache is disabled, we can leave it in DRAM knowing that if power is lost, we can make it safe.”
Say, for whatever reason, power is cut off during the write process on a large data batch. The System-on-a-Chip (SoC) of an OptiNAND drive — in under a second — will use the rotational power generated by the already spinning disks inside the drive to power internal capacitors until any cached data transfers to non-volatile NAND. Previously, without an iNAND component, that data would potentially be lost."
Not that this matters to enterprise, but it's a boon for repurposing the drives when they are retired on the second-hand market. Half of my drives are WD DC drives purchased used with fairly low hours (usually around 20,000 - 2 years) and they have always been reliable. One was considerably noisy and I replaced it with an 'equivalent' WD Black, same 8TB capacity and everything, thinking the drive might have an issue, and the WD Black was also noisy. Something with that generation\model\capacity, as the 6TB is quiet. I have a 10TB DC and 14TB DC as well, both for torrent seeding, and a Seagate EXOS 2X18 (that's the model) 18TB DELL EMC whitelabel for storing my um, 'media.'
It's fortunate all of these drives are SATA otherwise I wouldn't go out of my way getting a SAS controller to use them. I don't need more than 4 drives and don't run RAID, so SAS would just add expense I don't need.
Everything is backed up with backblaze for $80\year...at least until their new rates kick in. I worry I am one of the people causing them to hike their rates because I have over 30TB backed up to them flat-rate.
I was going to ask about backups. $80/year is pretty good when you factor in the convenience.. and it's flood/fire protection as well. No brainer, really. And you don't need some kind of RAID box.
I got 2x8TB drives on eBay from a normal user for $150. Low hours, can't really beat it. Sure I could add more drives every year instead of paying for backblaze, but whatever. I'm signing up tonight.
I don't bother backing up my torrent seeds because they fluctuate so much - and its all replaceable or unimportant. But yeah, if you have a huge data set, Backblaze is unbeatable compared to everyone else. If you have a small backup data set, iDrive and even OneDrive are more competitive at $20-$50\year, and they let you have multiple computers, network resources, etc, though there is a way to exploit Backblaze to backup network drives.
I was about to purchase WD Ultrastar 22TB DC series HDDs for data storage hot. I hope there's a price reduction coming soon for the BF deals since these 24TB ones are shipping now. Ofc I will get SATA first. My plan was to get a SAS expander for PCIex4 length connector on the mainstream mobo I have, however I will settle with the general purpose SATA connector.
So, SMR WD HDDs coming soon in the 28TB size. I wonder if this means the CMR drives are topping out at a maximum 24TB? I've read there's also solid talk of 30TB but only in SMR. Does anyone here know if CMR drives larger than 24TB are on the WD roadmap?
Yes, there will be larger CMR drives in due time. SMR is just at the leading edge of capacity, since for any generation of drive geometry it allows for greater capacity.
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Threska - Thursday, November 16, 2023 - link
"Both of these drives are further enhanced with OptiNAND to improve performance by storing repeatable runout (RRO) metadata on NAND memory (instead of on disks) and improve reliability."What happens when the power fails?
goatfajitas - Thursday, November 16, 2023 - link
I am pretty sure the whole thing powers off :DMonstieur - Thursday, November 16, 2023 - link
It uses kinetic energy from the spinning platters to flush the RAM to the NAND.ballsystemlord - Thursday, November 16, 2023 - link
Citation needed.Dizoja86 - Friday, November 17, 2023 - link
I guess writing "citation needed" is considerably easier than going to the WD website and reading about it, eh?PeachNCream - Friday, November 17, 2023 - link
Why do anything for yourself when you can wait for the spoon held by another user to arrive at your mouth?flyingpants265 - Friday, November 17, 2023 - link
Yeah, I'd like to see how reliable it actually is in practice.ballsystemlord - Monday, November 20, 2023 - link
And where would I find it? In a pdf datasheet? On the main page? Hidden in a tab somewhere on the product page? Placed in a more general area where no one would ever guess to look? Maybe it's an old technique, like RLL coding, that's now being used on NAND and so I'd never find this info unless I was at some archaic HDD place at the right time?I don't mean to be difficult, but this is not like front page news where you google it and get instant results.
back2future - Friday, November 17, 2023 - link
ArmorCache™? 'https://documents.westerndigital.com/content/dam/d...back2future - Tuesday, November 21, 2023 - link
[ maybe more general information is suitable https://patents.google.com/patent/US6725397 (Western Digital ~2022(?) introduction to HDD products with ArmorCache ]Squeaky'21 - Tuesday, November 21, 2023 - link
Thanks for the response, interesting reading. I also just now found an article that answers my question above - seems CMR has a good bit of life left yet with ePMR (CMR), as follows:-"Western Digital's roadmap includes the 2nd Generation ePMR 2 platform, which allows for areal densities over 1.3 Tb/inch2 (an 18% over ePMR). Such areal density will enable the company to build 3.5-inch platters with a capacity of over 3.5 TB. Thus Western Digital will be able to offer HDDs with a ~36 TB capacity featuring 10 of such disks in the coming quarters. Meanwhile, the company says this technology will be used for CMR HDDs with 24 TB – 30+ TB capacity points".
bigboxes - Sunday, November 19, 2023 - link
UPS?Pjotr - Tuesday, November 21, 2023 - link
Ok, I'll bite and Google duckduckgo it for you..."Optinand What happens when the power fails?" -> click first link that popped up: https://blog.westerndigital.com/optinand/ quote from page:
“"When we have non-volatile cache available, we have enough energy in the drive to take the data and write it to the NAND before any data is lost,” Boyle said. “When write-cache is disabled, we can leave it in DRAM knowing that if power is lost, we can make it safe.”
Say, for whatever reason, power is cut off during the write process on a large data batch. The System-on-a-Chip (SoC) of an OptiNAND drive — in under a second — will use the rotational power generated by the already spinning disks inside the drive to power internal capacitors until any cached data transfers to non-volatile NAND. Previously, without an iNAND component, that data would potentially be lost."
ballsystemlord - Thursday, November 16, 2023 - link
It's interesting that they chose to release the SATA versions first. Normally, they first release the SAS versions to select customers.Samus - Friday, November 17, 2023 - link
Not that this matters to enterprise, but it's a boon for repurposing the drives when they are retired on the second-hand market. Half of my drives are WD DC drives purchased used with fairly low hours (usually around 20,000 - 2 years) and they have always been reliable. One was considerably noisy and I replaced it with an 'equivalent' WD Black, same 8TB capacity and everything, thinking the drive might have an issue, and the WD Black was also noisy. Something with that generation\model\capacity, as the 6TB is quiet. I have a 10TB DC and 14TB DC as well, both for torrent seeding, and a Seagate EXOS 2X18 (that's the model) 18TB DELL EMC whitelabel for storing my um, 'media.'It's fortunate all of these drives are SATA otherwise I wouldn't go out of my way getting a SAS controller to use them. I don't need more than 4 drives and don't run RAID, so SAS would just add expense I don't need.
Everything is backed up with backblaze for $80\year...at least until their new rates kick in. I worry I am one of the people causing them to hike their rates because I have over 30TB backed up to them flat-rate.
flyingpants265 - Friday, November 17, 2023 - link
I was going to ask about backups. $80/year is pretty good when you factor in the convenience.. and it's flood/fire protection as well. No brainer, really. And you don't need some kind of RAID box.I got 2x8TB drives on eBay from a normal user for $150. Low hours, can't really beat it. Sure I could add more drives every year instead of paying for backblaze, but whatever. I'm signing up tonight.
Samus - Saturday, November 18, 2023 - link
I don't bother backing up my torrent seeds because they fluctuate so much - and its all replaceable or unimportant. But yeah, if you have a huge data set, Backblaze is unbeatable compared to everyone else. If you have a small backup data set, iDrive and even OneDrive are more competitive at $20-$50\year, and they let you have multiple computers, network resources, etc, though there is a way to exploit Backblaze to backup network drives.SanX - Sunday, November 19, 2023 - link
How about placing two heads running nearby two tracks in parallel and get the read/write speed almost double ?Silver5urfer - Monday, November 20, 2023 - link
I was about to purchase WD Ultrastar 22TB DC series HDDs for data storage hot. I hope there's a price reduction coming soon for the BF deals since these 24TB ones are shipping now. Ofc I will get SATA first. My plan was to get a SAS expander for PCIex4 length connector on the mainstream mobo I have, however I will settle with the general purpose SATA connector.Squeaky'21 - Tuesday, November 21, 2023 - link
So, SMR WD HDDs coming soon in the 28TB size. I wonder if this means the CMR drives are topping out at a maximum 24TB? I've read there's also solid talk of 30TB but only in SMR. Does anyone here know if CMR drives larger than 24TB are on the WD roadmap?Ryan Smith - Tuesday, November 21, 2023 - link
Yes, there will be larger CMR drives in due time. SMR is just at the leading edge of capacity, since for any generation of drive geometry it allows for greater capacity.Squeaky'21 - Tuesday, November 21, 2023 - link
Thanks Ryan!