Total agree, Intel had the opportunity with a new new series (Intel Processor N) and still messed it up. N50 is 2 cores, 6-Watts. N97, somehow, is 4 cores, at 12-Watts. Then you move "up" to N100, 4 cores, but at 6-Watts. N200 is the same as N100, but gets a small clockspeed bump and finally gets you the full Intel UHD Graphics @ 32 EUs. Then Intel went ahead and named the 8 core ones to Core i3 N300/N305 - why throw the i3 in there??? Why not just keep it as Intel Processor N300? At least the split between N300/N305 makes sense: N305 just gets a higher TDP, and nothing else.
Lots of good points, here. However, the part about N97 can be partially explained in that I believe it's not one of their models meant for things like Chromebooks. Rather, it's more of a specialty/embedded part. If you look at them on ark.intel.com, the N97 lists its product segment as Embedded, while the N100's vertical segment is Mobile.
The fact that they're aimed at different segments means their specs don't necessarily have to plot along the same continuum. Though, it'd be nice if they did.
@ mode_13h - Ahh, you are right, that does explain it, a little at least haha. I am personally waiting for a nice NUC-type box to come around with the N200 in it, and *hopefully* a SO-DIMM for DDR5 and M.2 2280 for the SSD.
Beware of how many lanes are active on the SSD, though. PCIe 3.0 x1 is pretty disappointing, though it still beats SATA!
I was expecting to see at least x2 - these SoCs don't have a ton of I/O, but they have one more lane than the previous generation. Going back 2 generations, Gemini Lake had only PCIe 2.0 x6! So, you'd really think they could spare at least 2 lanes for NVMe.
I currently have the Intel NUC11ATKPE, with the Pentium Silver N6005 processor. My WD SN850 is running at PCIe 3.0 x2 right now, but I really don't see why these newer Alder Lake-N systems wouldn't want to spare a full PCIe 3.0 x4 for the M.2 slot. I would rather sacrifice other I/O and have your storage subsystem running as fast as it can.
Yes, memory timing is for LPDDR5-4800 (it is not comparable against DDR4-3200 timings or DDR5 timings).
The ASRock box is substantially different from the G2 - check the I/Os and also more importantly it has scope for additional user configuration wrt RAM capacity and SSD capacity. The G2 has soldered RAM.
Btw, the difference in price is not $30, but more than $100. The G2 is ready out of the box for $230 with Win 11 Pro pre-installed. The NUC BOX-N97 needs RAM, SSD / HDD, and OS to be supplied by the user.
Also, the NUC BOX-N97 is from ASRock Industrial, and therefore presumably built to a higher standard and with better support!
I've never heard of GMKtek - do they offer real support for US-based customers? What's the warranty on that unit? How long do you think they'll keep releasing BIOS updates for it?
Is support really at all important, or at all, with machines like these? I've had a couple of PC over the years and they all lasted 10+ years with no failers of any compononets. Nor as a home user have I ever considered BIOS update. I imagine in business settings it's much different.
> The key aspect ... is the presence of the 'In-Band ECC' option. > ... > We confirmed ... that this option would not be removed in a future BIOS version > Apparently, Intel has decided to allow In-Band ECC as an official feature of the ... N97.
Excellent! Thank you!
If only they had used DDR5, this might be my next mini-PC!
> MemTest86 hang during memory testing of a known faulty SODIMM > instead of reporting errors).
LOL, wut? I hope that's a Memtest86 bug, and not just what happens when you get memory errors with IB-ECC!
Faulty SODIMMs can't guarantee only one- or two-bit errors. There could be more.
The likely explanation for the hang is that IB ECC generates an ECC mismatch interrupt internally to the processor, and MemTest86 is not able to handle it.
MemTest86 will eventually need to add support for IB ECC interrupt handling / error status readouts.
> Faulty SODIMMs can't guarantee only one- or two-bit errors. There could be more.
Okay, I sort of assumed you had some idea of how many errors the DIMM had, like based on doing a memtest scan with ECC disabled. I've seen my share of DIMMs with only a handful of bad cells, so I assumed it was one of those.
> MemTest86 will eventually need to add support for IB ECC interrupt handling / error status readouts.
Yes. Sounds like a feature they need to add. Is this the memtest variant from PassMark Software?
@Ganesh T S - I don't think those memory bandwidth figures and specs are correct. GPU-Z is known to not have good support for Intel's lower-end line. I know this personally as an owner of the Intel NUC11ATKPE ("Jasper Lake"). Intel's ark website shows that Alder Lake-N has a single memory channel (64-bit). Running at its fastest, so either DDR5-4800 or LPDDR5-4800, would be 38.4GB/sec of bandwidth. That tracks and make sense with what Intel says their 13th-gen Core series max bandwidth is, being dual-channel DDR5-5600, at 89.6GB/sec.
Alder Lake-N running in its single-channel DDR4-3200 config then should be only 25.6GB/sec.
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meacupla - Friday, October 6, 2023 - link
n100 vs n200, n200 is faster. That I can understandn100 vs n97, n97 is faster. Who came up with this naming scheme?
NextGen_Gamer - Friday, October 6, 2023 - link
Total agree, Intel had the opportunity with a new new series (Intel Processor N) and still messed it up. N50 is 2 cores, 6-Watts. N97, somehow, is 4 cores, at 12-Watts. Then you move "up" to N100, 4 cores, but at 6-Watts. N200 is the same as N100, but gets a small clockspeed bump and finally gets you the full Intel UHD Graphics @ 32 EUs. Then Intel went ahead and named the 8 core ones to Core i3 N300/N305 - why throw the i3 in there??? Why not just keep it as Intel Processor N300? At least the split between N300/N305 makes sense: N305 just gets a higher TDP, and nothing else.mode_13h - Sunday, October 8, 2023 - link
Lots of good points, here. However, the part about N97 can be partially explained in that I believe it's not one of their models meant for things like Chromebooks. Rather, it's more of a specialty/embedded part. If you look at them on ark.intel.com, the N97 lists its product segment as Embedded, while the N100's vertical segment is Mobile.The fact that they're aimed at different segments means their specs don't necessarily have to plot along the same continuum. Though, it'd be nice if they did.
NextGen_Gamer - Monday, October 9, 2023 - link
@ mode_13h - Ahh, you are right, that does explain it, a little at least haha. I am personally waiting for a nice NUC-type box to come around with the N200 in it, and *hopefully* a SO-DIMM for DDR5 and M.2 2280 for the SSD.mode_13h - Monday, October 9, 2023 - link
Beware of how many lanes are active on the SSD, though. PCIe 3.0 x1 is pretty disappointing, though it still beats SATA!I was expecting to see at least x2 - these SoCs don't have a ton of I/O, but they have one more lane than the previous generation. Going back 2 generations, Gemini Lake had only PCIe 2.0 x6! So, you'd really think they could spare at least 2 lanes for NVMe.
NextGen_Gamer - Tuesday, October 10, 2023 - link
I currently have the Intel NUC11ATKPE, with the Pentium Silver N6005 processor. My WD SN850 is running at PCIe 3.0 x2 right now, but I really don't see why these newer Alder Lake-N systems wouldn't want to spare a full PCIe 3.0 x4 for the M.2 slot. I would rather sacrifice other I/O and have your storage subsystem running as fast as it can.deil - Wednesday, October 11, 2023 - link
Well, its buldozer kind of thing.It's NEWER, with ddr5 instead of ddr4 AND $100 cheaper.
If your order them by price, performance matches.
[email protected] - Friday, October 6, 2023 - link
Are the memory timing right? Seems like the ASROCK is a stronger box. Main diff is 2W of powerat idle? And $30 bucks?
ganeshts - Saturday, October 7, 2023 - link
Yes, memory timing is for LPDDR5-4800 (it is not comparable against DDR4-3200 timings or DDR5 timings).The ASRock box is substantially different from the G2 - check the I/Os and also more importantly it has scope for additional user configuration wrt RAM capacity and SSD capacity. The G2 has soldered RAM.
Btw, the difference in price is not $30, but more than $100. The G2 is ready out of the box for $230 with Win 11 Pro pre-installed. The NUC BOX-N97 needs RAM, SSD / HDD, and OS to be supplied by the user.
mode_13h - Sunday, October 8, 2023 - link
Also, the NUC BOX-N97 is from ASRock Industrial, and therefore presumably built to a higher standard and with better support!I've never heard of GMKtek - do they offer real support for US-based customers? What's the warranty on that unit? How long do you think they'll keep releasing BIOS updates for it?
markiz - Tuesday, October 17, 2023 - link
Is support really at all important, or at all, with machines like these?I've had a couple of PC over the years and they all lasted 10+ years with no failers of any compononets.
Nor as a home user have I ever considered BIOS update.
I imagine in business settings it's much different.
hubick - Sunday, October 8, 2023 - link
"and soldered RAM is not being met with as much derision as before."this is where I stopped reading this article.
meacupla - Sunday, October 8, 2023 - link
It's 12GB LPDDR5 on a 6W Celeron. It's fine.Even 8GB works fine at 1440p on that CPU.
4K, you might want 16GB.
mode_13h - Monday, October 9, 2023 - link
> It's 12GB LPDDR5 on a 6W Celeron.Did you see the power consumption measurements? These things don't even *idle* at 6W!
mode_13h - Sunday, October 8, 2023 - link
> The key aspect ... is the presence of the 'In-Band ECC' option.> ...
> We confirmed ... that this option would not be removed in a future BIOS version
> Apparently, Intel has decided to allow In-Band ECC as an official feature of the ... N97.
Excellent! Thank you!
If only they had used DDR5, this might be my next mini-PC!
> MemTest86 hang during memory testing of a known faulty SODIMM
> instead of reporting errors).
LOL, wut? I hope that's a Memtest86 bug, and not just what happens when you get memory errors with IB-ECC!
ganeshts - Sunday, October 8, 2023 - link
Faulty SODIMMs can't guarantee only one- or two-bit errors. There could be more.The likely explanation for the hang is that IB ECC generates an ECC mismatch interrupt internally to the processor, and MemTest86 is not able to handle it.
MemTest86 will eventually need to add support for IB ECC interrupt handling / error status readouts.
mode_13h - Sunday, October 8, 2023 - link
Thanks for the review & replying to me.> Faulty SODIMMs can't guarantee only one- or two-bit errors. There could be more.
Okay, I sort of assumed you had some idea of how many errors the DIMM had, like based on doing a memtest scan with ECC disabled. I've seen my share of DIMMs with only a handful of bad cells, so I assumed it was one of those.
> MemTest86 will eventually need to add support for IB ECC interrupt handling / error status readouts.
Yes. Sounds like a feature they need to add. Is this the memtest variant from PassMark Software?
ganeshts - Monday, October 9, 2023 - link
Yes, I am using the PassMark variant.I have screenshots from mem testing the same SODIMM with the NUCS BOX-1360P/D4 (when they had the IB ECC feature enabled in the BIOS):
https://www.anandtech.com/show/18732/asrock-indust...
mode_13h - Monday, October 9, 2023 - link
Submit a bug report on it For Great Justice!NextGen_Gamer - Tuesday, October 10, 2023 - link
@Ganesh T S - I don't think those memory bandwidth figures and specs are correct. GPU-Z is known to not have good support for Intel's lower-end line. I know this personally as an owner of the Intel NUC11ATKPE ("Jasper Lake"). Intel's ark website shows that Alder Lake-N has a single memory channel (64-bit). Running at its fastest, so either DDR5-4800 or LPDDR5-4800, would be 38.4GB/sec of bandwidth. That tracks and make sense with what Intel says their 13th-gen Core series max bandwidth is, being dual-channel DDR5-5600, at 89.6GB/sec.Alder Lake-N running in its single-channel DDR4-3200 config then should be only 25.6GB/sec.