88.7 CPU AMD Sempron 3100+
67.2 MB Asus K8N4-E-SE
45.2 512Mb DDRAM 400MHz Samsung
85.1 250 GB Maxtor 16Mb SATA II 300 6V250F0 DiamondMax 10 with NCQ
41.9 ASUS DRW-1608P3S
86.1 ASUS EN6600-SILENCER/TD/128
26.3 400 W Generic case
That would be budget.. $440 plus taxes.. and runs any game currently on the market.
Runs or runs well? 7600 GT is going to be about 75% faster in GPU-limited benches. 512MB of RAM "runs any game" sure - but some games suck with less than 1GB. Actually, a lot of games suck with only 512MB RAM. Look up about 4 posts for my budget recommendations. Either you don't care about gaming (get IGP), or gaming is important (get at least 7600 GT). Anything else is basically limping along.
Thanks for another great article! Really appreciated this one as it answered my Sempron vs 805 vs X2 3800+ curiosity that'd been growing, using the 7600GT no less! No component nitpicking from here! ;)
quote: (The cheapest Core 2 Duo chip should also be pretty interesting, though it will be priced slightly higher than the X2 3800+ once it is launched. We'll have to wait to see how that chip overclocks.)
Since ya brought up the E6300, I just wanted to ensure y'all had seen this website that has a authentic 2mb cache version, that included some very lovely benchmarks and even added some E6300 @ 2.4ghz benchmarks to boot. I can't say the revision number of the chip used though to gauge if this was a newer or older not quite as OC-able chip. Er, if I didn't say so before, it's in French, but that's what Google is for! http://www.matbe.com/articles/lire/306/merom-et-co...">Linky
Oh, and I guess while on the subject... NDA lifts for y'all tomorrow right?? ;)
Jarred, thanks for the guide. It was just what I needed. However I do think it might be interesting to do a kind of "below-budget" guide. Find the cheapest possible system that still runs XP reliably, and uses new, off-the-shelf parts to do it. I do feel like anandtech focuses too much on rather high-end parts. I have to plead with my wife for any part over $50!
I mean when you say budget gaming you really mean budget cutting-edge gaming. Don't forget that every game worth playing wasn't made last year...there are thousands of games out there that the integrated GeForce 6100 or 6150 handles fine. Many of these are better than current games, after all there are only one or two really classic games released every year. The only star game on metacritic right now is Oblivion.
I'd like to see what kind of computer you could buy today for $200 or $300 total.
I spent much more on the Pentium D setup (relatively speaking), but that second CPU core can be extremely helpful. Even without OC'ing, the PD805 is definitely faster than just about any Sempron chip. Run Folding@Home for example, and you can get upwards of 400 PPD compared to about 200 PPD for Sempron chips. However, these are all just general picks and not something I've actually tested or benchmarked. Maybe some of the mobos suck - I don't really know for sure. At $317, the AM2 is a nice pick. No sense in getting 754 for $3 more. $375 for the PD805 system is also quite nice, for a dual core config.
For Socket 775 you list the MSI Xpress 200 RC410M-L motherboard. Neither NewEgg nor MSI show this board compatible with a Pentium D processor. Will the Dual Core Intel Pentium D 805 actually run on this motherboard?
That's the problem with trying to cut costs. :| Apparently I screwed up (since this was a quicker post than I'd use for article recommendations). So swap out the MSI board for...
Hell, let's go with the ASRock Core 2 compatible model. :) (If you want to overclock, probably go elsewhere!)
I'm stuck looking for an IGP solution for socket 775 that will support Pentium D. Looks like you might need to get a discrete GPU or else stick with Intel 945G chipsets.
I'm wondering if you'd make recommendations on a motherboard for socket 775 which has more SATA ports, or a SATA controller card, and also a full tower case. I'd like to build an OpenSolaris+ZFS disk array server for the home.
I'm surprised you didn't include the Asus M2NPV-VM (AM2) in the build...
Raid 5 (as well as the usual 0/1/10)
Dual Head (both VGA and DVI) output
HDTV audio and video including RGB
nVidia 6150 graphics
Firewire
GBE
All for under $90...
I would be interested in some more recommmendations for socket 775 mobos with integrated graphics. I don't play gamnes at all, but I will be doing some video editing. I gather what I need is cpu speed and ram. I would like to be able to add a graphics card when/if Vista ever comes along, without having to replace the mobo.
The article makes some rather contrived presumptions about what a budget PC is, or forgot to put the word "gaming" in the article title.
Many don't consider a $200 video card even a budget gaming card so the overall system config looks like a sacrifice of overall system specs and higher price just to game... which is fine if that's what you want but again it's not a budget system, rather a cost-optimized gaming system.
"If you're thinking that $140-$195 on a graphics card is far from being a "budget" selection, our reasoning is that you're building a budget PC, but you also want to be able to play games. We assume that most people need a PC in their home these days, so when people consider a gaming PC versus one of the consoles like an Xbox 360, they often end up concluding that the consoles cost a lot less. We figure you're already spending about $500 for a PC whether or not you have a gaming console, so really you're only spending another $150 to turn your PC into something that can play most of today's games. If you would like better video performance, of course, you could also go with a faster graphics card and spend more money. Prices on the 7900 GT cards have dropped to $265 before rebates (about $240 after rebate), so graphics performance scales almost linearly with additional money. If you don't need graphics performance at all, you can of course go with an integrated graphics solution or something cheaper."
I tried to make it clear that the GPU isn't required unless you plan on gaming, though Vista will certainly change things in another 6-8 months. This is one option, and I expect people to read the whole article as advice rather than a firm recommendation. You can use different HDDs (I used WD becuase I had a couple available for benchmarks), GPUs (I had two XFX XXX cards), case, PSU, mobo, etc. In general performance will be similar, so this is a look at what performance you can get for $650 in games... or $500 if you drop the GPU and don't bother with games.
Everyone here seems to be mentioning WD hard drives, but I just had one fail on me after barely more than one year. It was one of their 1 year warranty drives too =(. So I replaced it with the Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS 320GB with perpendicular recording. In reviews it has very high peak data transfer rates, and its only about $20 more than the WD 250 GB mentioned in the article, and it has a 5 year warranty.
Also I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about how to build a case like Dell's big Optiplex cases. They are set up where the whole front and back of the case is perforated, the HS on the CPU is huge and has a 120mm fan on the side which pulls air right in the front of the case and right out the back. These things don't make a whisper, we have whole labs full of them at my university and they are completely silent. Does anyone know of a cheap case and HS with this kind of design?
Not a bad article, but I don't understand the point. This is about the worst possible time to be building a new system, much less speccing one out with available parts. Unless that motherboard on the 805 system is Conroe-ready, I would't touch it with a 10-foot pole. Buying an 805 now is foolish on many different levels. The 915 is coming, and the 805 will be getting a price cut. X2s will be getting price cuts, too.
Part of the idea is to cover X2 performance prior to the price cut. 915 isn't dramatically different (a bit faster, but really a budget PC is rarely bottlenecked by CPU unless you are doing serious number crunching). I'm certainly not suggesting people go out and buy right now, but given that we will be putting out reviews of Core 2 Duo soon, I figured a nice non-NDA look at the budget sector might be interesting. Anyway, Intel isn't really coming out with any truly *new* budget chips (i.e. based off of Core architecture) for a while, and the only thing on the horizon for AMD budget right now is price cuts (AFAIK).
I agree with that - the only thing that will change for the sample systems will be the price (maybe better mainboards). As Intel will have little production (about 30% of total) of the new microprocessors, they will probably be reserved to the likes of Dell, and retail market will see little availability and higher prices. Not at all something for the budget machines.
Recently I've done a little looking around to see what kind of a budget gaming system I could build relatively cheap. Take a look at this little setup:
(All parts priced at Newegg.com, except optical drive and case borrowed from article)
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 - 3800+ (2.4ghz/512k) Socket AM2 $141.99
Motherboard: MSI K9N NEO-F Socket AM2 (AMD 550 Chipset) $ 78.99
Graphics Card: eVGA e-GeForce 7600GT PCI-e 256MB $169.99
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar RE WD2500YD 250GB $ 84.99
Memory: GeiL GX21GB5300LDC DDR2-667 Dual Channel Kit $ 91.29
2x512MB 4-4-4-12
Optic Drive: NEC 3550A 16X DVD+/-RW $ 35.00
Case/PSU: Generic case with iCute 400W PSU $ 50.00
____________________________________________________________________________
Total Cost: $652.25
I picked the WD hard drive after the strong showing it had in a recent Anandtech article. The eVGA card wasn't the absolute cheapest 7600GT I found, but with a listed stock speed of 780/1560 nothing cheaper offered better than 700/1400 stock. If you would rather pick DDR2-800, I found Patriot eXtreme PDC21G6400LLK DDR2-800 1GB 4-4-4-12 sticks at NewEgg.com for $112.99, or the same in a 2x512MB kit for $117.99
Just some food for thought for anyone looking to build a budget gaming box.
That's a pretty good setup. I'd save $30 or so and get an Athlon 64 3500+ Orleans, which only runs 200 MHz slower and can easily overclock. If you go down to a 3200+ in the cpu, you could possibly save enough money to get to a better class of graphics card - too bad there's no upgrade you can go to in the $200 price range (maybe the X1800GTO).
I'd be more inclined to drop to a 3200+ and spend the money for a 7900 GT if you're looking for gaming performance. Get that with one of the 570SLI boards (yeah, there goes the budget) and maybe 2x1024MB of DDR2-667. That'd be a nice mid-range config.
I've also had good luck with Apex/Allied case/PSU combos. Bought several a couple years ago for some AXP systems, and they're still going strong. Generic isn't always bad. Just powmax ;)
Sadly, the Apex case + PSU combo I got for my current system didn't work out well at all PSU-wise. I got the Apex TU-124 and it came with a dinky little 350W PSU that I immediately removed from the case and replaced with my old Antec Smartpower 400W PSU. The Antec had previously been in my 1 ghz Tbird rig and is still running, while the PSU from the Apex case went into my Tbird rig when I upgraded. I later gave away the Tbird, only for the system to die after about 6-8 months of operation in new hands. The Tbird was put together in early 2001, and can you guess what component died after I gave it away? The PSU.
I'm not sure what it was about that Tbird rig, but it killed two generic PSUs (the original that came with the case I bought for it and the one from the Apex case I bought in March 2005). The Antec PSU, however, worked just fine. I got that one back in 2004 or so when Antec was still putting out PSUs with high marks for reliability.
"Generic case with iCute 400W PSU (Purchased Locally)"
Generic PSUs and cases should never be recommended, particularly PSUs. Reliability is not something you can benchmark with one sample in six months time. If you can't afford a $50 InWin, Evercase, or entry level Antec case along with a $30-50 Forton-Source PSU you should probably be shopping at Dell or HP which will almost certainly get you more reliable machine.
I believe AOpen cases are still shipping with Fortons built in, so that would be a very good choice. Antec case PSU/bundles while not the best are fairly decent and that really should be the entry level even for a low budget machine, not generic garbage.
I do grow tired of the Power Supply snobs. Yes, yes, we all know that there are some really lousy power supplies out there bundled with cheap cases. There are also many perfectly good power supplies bundled with cheap cases. For the purpose herein, *most* generic power supplies will work just fine.
Anyone looking for a low-cost case that comes bundled with a reasonably good power supply, check out Athenatech:
Fact is, we dont' actually have sufficient data about longevity of generic PSU with modern, higher wattage system configs. That your 4 year old box has now 4 years running off a different generic is no evidence that another generic will run a modern system pulling 50% more current.
Cases are something you can go out and grab whatever you really want; I bought this locally because that was convenient 6 months ago. Sorry if this isn't clear, but the case/PSU was listed for disclosure purposes. Yes, there are better choices, but that's what was used for these benchmarks. Fotron Source would be a great choice for a 400W-500W PSU that would certainly be better than the iCute I used. I hoped people would understand that the configurations were a look at some available parts and not a specific recommendation, i.e. get a different GPU than the XFX, possibly different RAM, the Tforce 550 has some performance issues right now....
Basically, I built three budget platforms that more or less were priced similarly, and looked at how they compare in terms of performance. Out of the three, I'd take the PD805 for my purposes. Makes a nice addition to a folding farm. :)
The title says budget PC, but the article makes clear it is a "budget gaming system" that is being talked about. So the title should be changed to budget gaming system or budget gaming PC.
Wrong,
i.e.: changes to make 754 config a good budget PC:
drop DFI MB, drop the GPU, put in quality ATI Xpress200 or Geforce 6100 MB
drop that dual channel Patriot nonsense for singel channel s754, put in Kinkston/
Corsair 1GB stick of DDR400 CL3
drop that insane 400W PSU(100W system), drop in budget case, drop in FSP300-60GLN
example:
CPU: Sempron 2800+ ~$50
MB: JetWay A200GDMS ~$70 or some Geforce6100 board
RAM: 1GB brand DDR400 ~$90
HDD: any 250G ~$80
DVD: NEC 4571 ~$35 or any you like
case: ASUS TM250 ~$30 or any generic case without PSU
PSU: FSP300-60GLN ~$30
Final price: <= $400
You can drop some better GPU later but such a system will be with you for a long time.
As someone wrote above, your configs are good budget GAMER/OVERCLOCKER choices. Not budget PC choices.
But I would quantify my system as a "better" budget system - the extra $200 or so goes a long ways towards improving features and performance. Again, you don't *have* to buy these systems, but they are what I had available and you can see performnace (stock and OC'ed). It's something a bit different from our regular budget buyers' guides.
IMHO we have a common attitude for system config creation. But a different view on what a budget PC is. For me, it is a -as cheap as possible- workhorse, for you, a gaming machine able to work.
My intention was just to show off that it is not so simple - like change the GPU and it is a classic budget system. IMHO you know that it is more complicated, but many readers do not(an the article supports them here).
the message:
"To build a good, balanced PC is a system solution problem, not a component solution one."
Wrong,
i.e.: changes to make 754 config a good budget PC:
drop DFI MB, drop the GPU, put in quality ATI Xpress200 or Geforce 6100 MB
drop that dual channel Patriot nonsense for singel channel s754, put in Kinkston/
Corsair 1GB stick of DDR400 CL3
drop that insane 400W PSU(100W system), drop in budget case, drop in FSP300-60GLN
So, the Pentium D's are going even lower, when the X2's lower as well? What about the other single cores from Intel and AMD, are they lowering with Core 2 Duo's launch?
Looking back at that article from one and a half years ago. it's pretty cool to see what one can get today for less money than what one could get back then. I remember reading that article last year shortly before I built the PC I use now and using it as a kind of guideline, even though it was a few months old then.
Anyway, this spell check on Firefox 2.0 Beta 1 is freaking sweet. :)
The review overall was very good. But I do have one problem and it has to do with this statement:
"Still, we're inclined to recommend socket AM2 right now, as we have yet to see any budget socket 775 motherboards available that will support Core 2 Duo chips.
It supports Conroe, DDR, DDRII, AGP, PCI-e....which to me is somewhat the equevelent of the ASROCK 939DUAL SATAII. For people with older systems that have DDR, or AGP, the 775Dual-VSTA is the board that can make the transition a little cheaper.
Why you guys didn't recommend this board I don't know...maybe you didnt know about it? Or worse (and I doubt this is true) it was showing AMD bias.
I will let Gary's review explore overclocking on the ASRock motherboard. I really have no idea how it will perform, and the truth is that I started working on this article several weeks ago. If I knew for sure which budget motherboards can run Core 2 Duo and overclock well, I would be happy to recommend such a motherboard. We'll probably have to wait a few more weeks to get a clear feel for that market.
We are currently testing this board for an upcoming Core 2 Duo article, however, at the time Jarred completed this article the board was not widely available nor did our test board have a bios that fully supported all Conroe CPUs. There is not any AMD bias and we are still waiting on more "budget" boards with Core 2 Duo support to be released. It appears at this time we will have to wait until the beginning of August to see the 946PL, G965, and reworked 945 boards that will be in the $65~$100 range.
Some observations/questions about this "budget" system:
Memory choice: The DDR2 memory choice is given without much analysis. The specific part would be almost
impossible to determine without the article link. It is part number OCZ28001024ELDCGE-K and according to OCZ
http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_d...">http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_d... has timings of 5-5-5-10 at 2.0v where the so called "stock" setting is given as 4-4-4-12-2T at 2.1V.
It appears that this memory is overclocked even in the base performance runs, so those performance numbers
are of no value to the non-overclocker. Some discussion of CAS 5 6400 memory vs CAS 4 5300 memory should have
been included as Newegg has some CAS 4 5300 for $33 less than the 6400 memory chosen which is really CAS 5.
Processor: The choice of a high performance GPU to turn the "budget" system into a gamer has it's own effects.
$192 has overshadowed choices like more memory or faster processors. For only $20 more the processor could
have been an Athlon 64 3500+ 2.2GHz rather than the Sempron 64 3400+ 1.80GHz unit.
Case/Power Supply: Now here is a non-starter. Great that this one "cheap" power supply has lasted for a while.
Lots of us have experience with "cheap" power supplies that would have us avoid choices of this type in the
future. Also, being able to build the exact system has always been a plus with the AdandTech system recommendations.
How could we, in general, duplicate "generic case with iCute 400W PSU purchased "locally"?
DVD: You keep picking the NEC 3550A but without much justifcation relative to equivalent cost Lite-On or other.
Motherboard: You pick the Biostar TForce 550 and then you say "...it seems to be in need of some updates...".
What are we to take from that? Is it a recommendation or not? How was it chosen among the many, many MBs?
Net: I am not really sure what to take from this guide. I don't think I would build this system as such. I am not
sure who the audience is (the only serious gamers I know buy XBox or PS). It doesn't give enough analysis/
criteria information to help make component selections beyond the specifics. I think this one is puzzling.
I can give you some 5-5-5-15 DDR2-667 numbers as well as 4-4-4-12 DDR2-533, both using G.Skill DDR2-667 RAM. The differences are pretty small, generally less than 3%.
I really don't even consider additional voltage on memory to be "overclocking" anymore, as many modules are rated to run with extra voltage and will in fact require it to run at tighter timings. The G.Skill DDR2-667 5-5-5-15 runs at 1.8V with those settings, but with 2.1V I can run it at 4-4-4-12; the same goes for a lot of DDR2 memory.
As for the OCZ RAM, we've http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=230...">tested similar memory in the past, and we were able to get some nice results with tuning. 5-5-5-10 is the rated speed, but you can certainly do a lot better. I switched to the OCZ because I was trying to determine if it would improve the AM2 performance on the Biostar board (it didn't), and because I had about $30 in "wiggle room" due to the RAM used on the 754 setup.
Again, I would not get cheap DDR RAM for overclocking if you are after ease of endeavor. I've done that as well, and at higher overclocks the performance impact can definitely be substantial. I also wouldn't recommend anyone actually go out and buy the Sempron 754 configurations these days, as dollar for dollar you can get more out of AM2 or 775 platforms. You will never see anything faster than Athlon 64 3700+ (stock speeds) on socket 754, for example.
I forgot to talk about the Biostar TForce 550 motherboard. It was purchased right around the time socket AM2 launched, and given my experience with the socket 775 TForce board I figured it would make for a good budget overclocking motherboard. There are lots of AM2 motherboards available now, but in the budget price range there are very few that are likely to outperform the Biostar TForce 550 when it comes to overclocking.
http://labs.anandtech.com/search.php?q=am2%20mothe...">Here's a list of the AM2 motherboards we're tracking sorted by price. I would be very surprised if any of the integrated graphics solutions overclock well, given my past experience with that type of motherboard, but I could be wrong. For better overclocking, the ASUS M2N-E should perform better (both in overclocking and stock performance).
The Biostar TForce 550 board looks great on paper, but the inability to POST at about 280 MHz HyperTransport bus speeds, as well as the lower performance relative to other AM2 motherboards left me disappointed. You could try the MSI K9N Neo-F, and it may or may not perform better. You can look at the performance achieved by the Biostar TForce 550 with the Sempron chip and compare that to the Gigabyte nForce 590 board with the same chip and you can get a reasonable approximation of the performance you are likely to get with such a configuration.
You want my honest recommendation? Wait until the end of the week and watch how Core 2 Duo performs. Then try to find a budget motherboard that will allow you to overclock the E6300 to 2.8 GHz or higher. It's going to be more expensive than any of the systems used in this article, but it will require less power and provide more performance.
PS -- most of the gamers I know that play with only Xbox or PlayStation do so because they don't know all that much about computers. It's partly a matter of taste, though, as some people will prefer the console gaming experience over a PC gaming experience. There certainly is no correct answer as to which is better, but with the escalating prices of next-generation consoles, budget PC gaming is looking a lot more flexible and attractive. These $650 PCs can also be used to do research and homework at college; try doing that with an Xbox 360, right?
I am trying to figure out how the Pentium D 930 (presler) would compare performance wise with the overclocked 805. The overclocked 805 still has a lower FSB, but a higher effective clock speed than the 930. Any thoughts?
You can generally get 4.0 GHz on stock cooling with the 930, so it's faster, runs a bit cooler (not really once overclocked), and it performs better because of the 800FSB default. It depends on the apps you're running, though - as can be seen, you need a better GPU than a 7600 GT for faster gaming performance. You would also want a better PSU for 4.0 GHz 930 overclocking - you can definitely break the 400W mark in such systems.
I like the Biostar TForce 6100 board. The power button on the motherboard itself glows blue, and has a reset button on it as well. The fan options on it are very adjustable in the BIOS. Still can use the video card, but I know people here do not prefer uATX.
InWin cases are also nice too for the price. They come with 350w power supplies with 12cm fans. Not the best power supplies, but not the worst either.
We were promised reviews of micro ATX mainboards a while back (hopefully with integrated video performance too, dual and single channel :) ). The article should be in the works now.
Anyway, none of the integrated graphics/microATX boards I looked upon (from MSI, Asus etc) did have anything in the way of overclocking/overvolting/undervolting/...
Most of these motherboards are decently cheap, but I wonder if they are as stable as some more well established brands. Of course, I go way back and a mantra that I've heard over and over, for stability Asus and Intel motherboards are the only way to go. While the DFI board in the test could be reasonably expected to be relatively stable, I am unsure about the biostar motherboard.
My case in point from way back. The ECS K7S5A motherboard for a Socket A Athlon motherboard was supposedly one of the best, but it still had it's quirks. It's no where near as stable as the Asus Williamete motherboard at that time. It also has cold boot issues that numerous different bioses have never fixed. Hard drive detection with a third party IDE controller could be problematic at best.
I have an ECS K7S5A mainboard, and its stability was good. Anyway, that was around the time when even top mainboards had one or two errors in 72 hours of benchmarks/stability checks.
I would say Gigabyte boards are good too - I've had not so positive experiences with Foxconn boards.
The Biostar + PD805 has been in use for roughly six months, without any noticeable problems. The DFI Infinity has also been in use for a while without problems. AM2 is too new to say how it is in terms of stability, but I definitely enjoy the extra features (because I am one of those people that has GbE running through the house). If your primary concern is stability, you'd probably want to skip out on overclocking anyway. One of the biggest difficulties in overclocking is determining long-term "stable" settings. It can take months to get what you feel is an optimally stable system, and minor tweaks to voltages, memory timings, bus speeds, etc. can turn a crash-prone system fully stable (or vice versa).
If these are budget considerations, why is 2-2-2 DDR memory and an XXX XFX listed in there? You can get an eVGA 7600GT CO for less than $150AR from time to time, and 1GB of CAS 2.5 memory will only set you back $90 and be practically as fast. That's $60 saved.
quote: If these are budget considerations, why is 2-2-2 DDR memory and an XXX XFX listed in there? You can get an eVGA 7600GT CO for less than $150AR from time to time, and 1GB of CAS 2.5 memory will only set you back $90 and be practically as fast. That's $60 saved.
Jarred explained this on page 2. The memory selected for the S754 system is what we had available at the time for 2-2-2 operation. You are right that additional money could be saved for a minor performance delta. Since this article was looking at budget gaming performance, the XFX video card was chosen since it was still in our price range and is factory overclocked allowing a small increase in performance for those uncomfortable with overclocking the GPU. We mentioned that with rebates just about any of the 7600GT cards could be had for around $140~$160.
This article was designed to provide an umbrella look at what is available in the $650 price range and how it performs with today's game titles. We certainly understand that additional money could be saved or could be spent depending upon the individual's objective in building a system. As an example, on the S754 system you could have spent a little less on the memory but could have taken those savings and applied them to a better audio solution resulting in the same end figure. Some people would rather have the improved memory performance and live with the on-board audio. In the end, for about $650 you can build a decent machine today and there are an incredible amount of component choices that allow you to do this.
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mariush - Thursday, July 13, 2006 - link
88.7 CPU AMD Sempron 3100+67.2 MB Asus K8N4-E-SE
45.2 512Mb DDRAM 400MHz Samsung
85.1 250 GB Maxtor 16Mb SATA II 300 6V250F0 DiamondMax 10 with NCQ
41.9 ASUS DRW-1608P3S
86.1 ASUS EN6600-SILENCER/TD/128
26.3 400 W Generic case
That would be budget.. $440 plus taxes.. and runs any game currently on the market.
JarredWalton - Thursday, July 13, 2006 - link
Runs or runs well? 7600 GT is going to be about 75% faster in GPU-limited benches. 512MB of RAM "runs any game" sure - but some games suck with less than 1GB. Actually, a lot of games suck with only 512MB RAM. Look up about 4 posts for my budget recommendations. Either you don't care about gaming (get IGP), or gaming is important (get at least 7600 GT). Anything else is basically limping along.Kougar - Thursday, July 13, 2006 - link
Thanks for another great article! Really appreciated this one as it answered my Sempron vs 805 vs X2 3800+ curiosity that'd been growing, using the 7600GT no less! No component nitpicking from here! ;)Since ya brought up the E6300, I just wanted to ensure y'all had seen this website that has a authentic 2mb cache version, that included some very lovely benchmarks and even added some E6300 @ 2.4ghz benchmarks to boot. I can't say the revision number of the chip used though to gauge if this was a newer or older not quite as OC-able chip. Er, if I didn't say so before, it's in French, but that's what Google is for! http://www.matbe.com/articles/lire/306/merom-et-co...">Linky
Oh, and I guess while on the subject... NDA lifts for y'all tomorrow right?? ;)
JarredWalton - Thursday, July 13, 2006 - link
Yup. Tomorrow is the big day. :)Paladin165 - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
Jarred, thanks for the guide. It was just what I needed. However I do think it might be interesting to do a kind of "below-budget" guide. Find the cheapest possible system that still runs XP reliably, and uses new, off-the-shelf parts to do it. I do feel like anandtech focuses too much on rather high-end parts. I have to plead with my wife for any part over $50!I mean when you say budget gaming you really mean budget cutting-edge gaming. Don't forget that every game worth playing wasn't made last year...there are thousands of games out there that the integrated GeForce 6100 or 6150 handles fine. Many of these are better than current games, after all there are only one or two really classic games released every year. The only star game on metacritic right now is Oblivion.
I'd like to see what kind of computer you could buy today for $200 or $300 total.
JarredWalton - Thursday, July 13, 2006 - link
Not sure you can really get under $300 without making some serious compromises. I insist on:1GB RAM
DVDR
Everything else is up for change. So let's see....
Socket AM2:
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=477...">ECS Xpress 300 CrossFire RS485M-M $62
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=460...">AMD Sempron 3000+ 256KB Manila (1.6 GHz) $62
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=435...">G.Skill PC-4200 2x512MB Extreme NT $75
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=436...">BenQ 16X DW1650 $33
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=172...">Hitachi SATA 3.0Gbps 80GB Deskstar 7K80 $48
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">Generic Linkworld Case + 430W PSU $37
TOTAL = $317
Alternative AM2 Parts:
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=482...">ECS nForce 410 GeForce 6100 C51GM-M $72
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=435...">G.Skill PC-5300 2x512MB Extreme LA $85
Socket 754:
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=418...">MSI nForce 410 GeForce 6100 K8NGM-V $62
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=293...">AMD Sempron 64 2800+ 256KB Palermo (1.6 GHz) $56
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=433...">G.Skill PC-3200 1024MB Value NT $84
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=436...">BenQ 16X DW1650 $33
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=172...">Hitachi SATA 3.0Gbps 80GB Deskstar 7K80 $48
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">Generic Linkworld Case + 430W PSU $37
TOTAL = $320
Socket 775:
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=425...">MSI Xpress 200 RC410M-L $68
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=438...">Intel Pentium D 805 533FSB 2x1MB $114
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=435...">G.Skill PC-4200 2x512MB Extreme NT $75
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=436...">BenQ 16X DW1650 $33
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=172...">Hitachi SATA 3.0Gbps 80GB Deskstar 7K80 $48
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">Generic Linkworld Case + 430W PSU $37
TOTAL = $375
Alternative 775 Parts:
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=220...">Intel Pentium D 820 800FSB 2x1MB $109 After Rebate ($146 otherwise)
http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=435...">G.Skill PC-5300 2x512MB Extreme LA $85
I spent much more on the Pentium D setup (relatively speaking), but that second CPU core can be extremely helpful. Even without OC'ing, the PD805 is definitely faster than just about any Sempron chip. Run Folding@Home for example, and you can get upwards of 400 PPD compared to about 200 PPD for Sempron chips. However, these are all just general picks and not something I've actually tested or benchmarked. Maybe some of the mobos suck - I don't really know for sure. At $317, the AM2 is a nice pick. No sense in getting 754 for $3 more. $375 for the PD805 system is also quite nice, for a dual core config.
jonp - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - link
Question:For Socket 775 you list the MSI Xpress 200 RC410M-L motherboard. Neither NewEgg nor MSI show this board compatible with a Pentium D processor. Will the Dual Core Intel Pentium D 805 actually run on this motherboard?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?mode...">http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?mode...
JarredWalton - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - link
That's the problem with trying to cut costs. :| Apparently I screwed up (since this was a quicker post than I'd use for article recommendations). So swap out the MSI board for...Hell, let's go with the ASRock Core 2 compatible model. :) (If you want to overclock, probably go elsewhere!)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">ASRock 775Dual-VSTA ($64)
I'm stuck looking for an IGP solution for socket 775 that will support Pentium D. Looks like you might need to get a discrete GPU or else stick with Intel 945G chipsets.
midfield - Monday, July 24, 2006 - link
Thanks for the review and comments.I'm wondering if you'd make recommendations on a motherboard for socket 775 which has more SATA ports, or a SATA controller card, and also a full tower case. I'd like to build an OpenSolaris+ZFS disk array server for the home.
Viditor - Monday, July 17, 2006 - link
I'm surprised you didn't include the Asus M2NPV-VM (AM2) in the build...Raid 5 (as well as the usual 0/1/10)
Dual Head (both VGA and DVI) output
HDTV audio and video including RGB
nVidia 6150 graphics
Firewire
GBE
All for under $90...
JarredWalton - Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - link
I thought about it, but figured for true budget I would go as low as I felt was possible without completely crippling the systems. :)Ealdric - Thursday, July 13, 2006 - link
I would be interested in some more recommmendations for socket 775 mobos with integrated graphics. I don't play gamnes at all, but I will be doing some video editing. I gather what I need is cpu speed and ram. I would like to be able to add a graphics card when/if Vista ever comes along, without having to replace the mobo.Thanks!
mindless1 - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
The article makes some rather contrived presumptions about what a budget PC is, or forgot to put the word "gaming" in the article title.Many don't consider a $200 video card even a budget gaming card so the overall system config looks like a sacrifice of overall system specs and higher price just to game... which is fine if that's what you want but again it's not a budget system, rather a cost-optimized gaming system.
JarredWalton - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
Page 3:"If you're thinking that $140-$195 on a graphics card is far from being a "budget" selection, our reasoning is that you're building a budget PC, but you also want to be able to play games. We assume that most people need a PC in their home these days, so when people consider a gaming PC versus one of the consoles like an Xbox 360, they often end up concluding that the consoles cost a lot less. We figure you're already spending about $500 for a PC whether or not you have a gaming console, so really you're only spending another $150 to turn your PC into something that can play most of today's games. If you would like better video performance, of course, you could also go with a faster graphics card and spend more money. Prices on the 7900 GT cards have dropped to $265 before rebates (about $240 after rebate), so graphics performance scales almost linearly with additional money. If you don't need graphics performance at all, you can of course go with an integrated graphics solution or something cheaper."
I tried to make it clear that the GPU isn't required unless you plan on gaming, though Vista will certainly change things in another 6-8 months. This is one option, and I expect people to read the whole article as advice rather than a firm recommendation. You can use different HDDs (I used WD becuase I had a couple available for benchmarks), GPUs (I had two XFX XXX cards), case, PSU, mobo, etc. In general performance will be similar, so this is a look at what performance you can get for $650 in games... or $500 if you drop the GPU and don't bother with games.
Paladin165 - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
Everyone here seems to be mentioning WD hard drives, but I just had one fail on me after barely more than one year. It was one of their 1 year warranty drives too =(. So I replaced it with the Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS 320GB with perpendicular recording. In reviews it has very high peak data transfer rates, and its only about $20 more than the WD 250 GB mentioned in the article, and it has a 5 year warranty.Also I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about how to build a case like Dell's big Optiplex cases. They are set up where the whole front and back of the case is perforated, the HS on the CPU is huge and has a 120mm fan on the side which pulls air right in the front of the case and right out the back. These things don't make a whisper, we have whole labs full of them at my university and they are completely silent. Does anyone know of a cheap case and HS with this kind of design?
DrMrLordX - Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - link
Not a bad article, but I don't understand the point. This is about the worst possible time to be building a new system, much less speccing one out with available parts. Unless that motherboard on the 805 system is Conroe-ready, I would't touch it with a 10-foot pole. Buying an 805 now is foolish on many different levels. The 915 is coming, and the 805 will be getting a price cut. X2s will be getting price cuts, too.JarredWalton - Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - link
Part of the idea is to cover X2 performance prior to the price cut. 915 isn't dramatically different (a bit faster, but really a budget PC is rarely bottlenecked by CPU unless you are doing serious number crunching). I'm certainly not suggesting people go out and buy right now, but given that we will be putting out reviews of Core 2 Duo soon, I figured a nice non-NDA look at the budget sector might be interesting. Anyway, Intel isn't really coming out with any truly *new* budget chips (i.e. based off of Core architecture) for a while, and the only thing on the horizon for AMD budget right now is price cuts (AFAIK).Calin - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
I agree with that - the only thing that will change for the sample systems will be the price (maybe better mainboards). As Intel will have little production (about 30% of total) of the new microprocessors, they will probably be reserved to the likes of Dell, and retail market will see little availability and higher prices. Not at all something for the budget machines.Mozee - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
Recently I've done a little looking around to see what kind of a budget gaming system I could build relatively cheap. Take a look at this little setup:(All parts priced at Newegg.com, except optical drive and case borrowed from article)
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 - 3800+ (2.4ghz/512k) Socket AM2 $141.99
Motherboard: MSI K9N NEO-F Socket AM2 (AMD 550 Chipset) $ 78.99
Graphics Card: eVGA e-GeForce 7600GT PCI-e 256MB $169.99
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar RE WD2500YD 250GB $ 84.99
Memory: GeiL GX21GB5300LDC DDR2-667 Dual Channel Kit $ 91.29
2x512MB 4-4-4-12
Optic Drive: NEC 3550A 16X DVD+/-RW $ 35.00
Case/PSU: Generic case with iCute 400W PSU $ 50.00
____________________________________________________________________________
Total Cost: $652.25
I picked the WD hard drive after the strong showing it had in a recent Anandtech article. The eVGA card wasn't the absolute cheapest 7600GT I found, but with a listed stock speed of 780/1560 nothing cheaper offered better than 700/1400 stock. If you would rather pick DDR2-800, I found Patriot eXtreme PDC21G6400LLK DDR2-800 1GB 4-4-4-12 sticks at NewEgg.com for $112.99, or the same in a 2x512MB kit for $117.99
Just some food for thought for anyone looking to build a budget gaming box.
kmmatney - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
That's a pretty good setup. I'd save $30 or so and get an Athlon 64 3500+ Orleans, which only runs 200 MHz slower and can easily overclock. If you go down to a 3200+ in the cpu, you could possibly save enough money to get to a better class of graphics card - too bad there's no upgrade you can go to in the $200 price range (maybe the X1800GTO).JarredWalton - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
I'd be more inclined to drop to a 3200+ and spend the money for a 7900 GT if you're looking for gaming performance. Get that with one of the 570SLI boards (yeah, there goes the budget) and maybe 2x1024MB of DDR2-667. That'd be a nice mid-range config.Avalon - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
I've also had good luck with Apex/Allied case/PSU combos. Bought several a couple years ago for some AXP systems, and they're still going strong. Generic isn't always bad. Just powmax ;)DrMrLordX - Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - link
Sadly, the Apex case + PSU combo I got for my current system didn't work out well at all PSU-wise. I got the Apex TU-124 and it came with a dinky little 350W PSU that I immediately removed from the case and replaced with my old Antec Smartpower 400W PSU. The Antec had previously been in my 1 ghz Tbird rig and is still running, while the PSU from the Apex case went into my Tbird rig when I upgraded. I later gave away the Tbird, only for the system to die after about 6-8 months of operation in new hands. The Tbird was put together in early 2001, and can you guess what component died after I gave it away? The PSU.I'm not sure what it was about that Tbird rig, but it killed two generic PSUs (the original that came with the case I bought for it and the one from the Apex case I bought in March 2005). The Antec PSU, however, worked just fine. I got that one back in 2004 or so when Antec was still putting out PSUs with high marks for reliability.
Operandi - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
"Generic case with iCute 400W PSU (Purchased Locally)"Generic PSUs and cases should never be recommended, particularly PSUs. Reliability is not something you can benchmark with one sample in six months time. If you can't afford a $50 InWin, Evercase, or entry level Antec case along with a $30-50 Forton-Source PSU you should probably be shopping at Dell or HP which will almost certainly get you more reliable machine.
I believe AOpen cases are still shipping with Fortons built in, so that would be a very good choice. Antec case PSU/bundles while not the best are fairly decent and that really should be the entry level even for a low budget machine, not generic garbage.
johnsonx - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
I do grow tired of the Power Supply snobs. Yes, yes, we all know that there are some really lousy power supplies out there bundled with cheap cases. There are also many perfectly good power supplies bundled with cheap cases. For the purpose herein, *most* generic power supplies will work just fine.Anyone looking for a low-cost case that comes bundled with a reasonably good power supply, check out Athenatech:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Subm...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...rchInDes...
I've used several of these cases, including quite a number of the MicroATX cases which include Sparkle power supplies.
mindless1 - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
There are snobs and then there are SNOBS.Fact is, we dont' actually have sufficient data about longevity of generic PSU with modern, higher wattage system configs. That your 4 year old box has now 4 years running off a different generic is no evidence that another generic will run a modern system pulling 50% more current.
DrMrLordX - Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - link
Sparkle is hardly generic, though. Those are rebranded Fortrons.mesyn191 - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
Yup, FSP/Sparkle are quality PSU's that are cheap. Inwin aint' bad either.OP is really a PSU snob he just doesn't know it!!
JarredWalton - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
Cases are something you can go out and grab whatever you really want; I bought this locally because that was convenient 6 months ago. Sorry if this isn't clear, but the case/PSU was listed for disclosure purposes. Yes, there are better choices, but that's what was used for these benchmarks. Fotron Source would be a great choice for a 400W-500W PSU that would certainly be better than the iCute I used. I hoped people would understand that the configurations were a look at some available parts and not a specific recommendation, i.e. get a different GPU than the XFX, possibly different RAM, the Tforce 550 has some performance issues right now....Basically, I built three budget platforms that more or less were priced similarly, and looked at how they compare in terms of performance. Out of the three, I'd take the PD805 for my purposes. Makes a nice addition to a folding farm. :)
CSMR - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
The title says budget PC, but the article makes clear it is a "budget gaming system" that is being talked about. So the title should be changed to budget gaming system or budget gaming PC.JarredWalton - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
Drop the $180 GPU and throw in a $50 GPU and you've got a non-gaming platform.mino - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
Wrong,i.e.: changes to make 754 config a good budget PC:
drop DFI MB, drop the GPU, put in quality ATI Xpress200 or Geforce 6100 MB
drop that dual channel Patriot nonsense for singel channel s754, put in Kinkston/
Corsair 1GB stick of DDR400 CL3
drop that insane 400W PSU(100W system), drop in budget case, drop in FSP300-60GLN
example:
CPU: Sempron 2800+ ~$50
MB: JetWay A200GDMS ~$70 or some Geforce6100 board
RAM: 1GB brand DDR400 ~$90
HDD: any 250G ~$80
DVD: NEC 4571 ~$35 or any you like
case: ASUS TM250 ~$30 or any generic case without PSU
PSU: FSP300-60GLN ~$30
Final price: <= $400
You can drop some better GPU later but such a system will be with you for a long time.
As someone wrote above, your configs are good budget GAMER/OVERCLOCKER choices. Not budget PC choices.
JarredWalton - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
But I would quantify my system as a "better" budget system - the extra $200 or so goes a long ways towards improving features and performance. Again, you don't *have* to buy these systems, but they are what I had available and you can see performnace (stock and OC'ed). It's something a bit different from our regular budget buyers' guides.mino - Thursday, July 13, 2006 - link
Almost forgot,I really appreciated the review, realy.
Just not for the text part, instead for the numbers and mostly the configs being tested.
mino - Thursday, July 13, 2006 - link
IMHO we have a common attitude for system config creation. But a different view on what a budget PC is. For me, it is a -as cheap as possible- workhorse, for you, a gaming machine able to work.My intention was just to show off that it is not so simple - like change the GPU and it is a classic budget system. IMHO you know that it is more complicated, but many readers do not(an the article supports them here).
the message:
"To build a good, balanced PC is a system solution problem, not a component solution one."
Best regards.
mino - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
Wrong,i.e.: changes to make 754 config a good budget PC:
drop DFI MB, drop the GPU, put in quality ATI Xpress200 or Geforce 6100 MB
drop that dual channel Patriot nonsense for singel channel s754, put in Kinkston/
Corsair 1GB stick of DDR400 CL3
drop that insane 400W PSU(100W system), drop in budget case, drop in FSP300-60GLN
you've got:
CPU: Sempron 2800+ $50
MB:
mino - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
this post was unintentional, gog give us EDIT :)Josh7289 - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
So, the Pentium D's are going even lower, when the X2's lower as well? What about the other single cores from Intel and AMD, are they lowering with Core 2 Duo's launch?Looking back at that article from one and a half years ago. it's pretty cool to see what one can get today for less money than what one could get back then. I remember reading that article last year shortly before I built the PC I use now and using it as a kind of guideline, even though it was a few months old then.
Anyway, this spell check on Firefox 2.0 Beta 1 is freaking sweet. :)
PC Surgeon - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
The review overall was very good. But I do have one problem and it has to do with this statement:
"Still, we're inclined to recommend socket AM2 right now, as we have yet to see any budget socket 775 motherboards available that will support Core 2 Duo chips.
Oh yeah? Well what about this one?
ASRock 775Dual-VSTA $58.99 www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157092
It supports Conroe, DDR, DDRII, AGP, PCI-e....which to me is somewhat the equevelent of the ASROCK 939DUAL SATAII. For people with older systems that have DDR, or AGP, the 775Dual-VSTA is the board that can make the transition a little cheaper.
Why you guys didn't recommend this board I don't know...maybe you didnt know about it? Or worse (and I doubt this is true) it was showing AMD bias.
That's my bone to pick....
JarredWalton - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
I will let Gary's review explore overclocking on the ASRock motherboard. I really have no idea how it will perform, and the truth is that I started working on this article several weeks ago. If I knew for sure which budget motherboards can run Core 2 Duo and overclock well, I would be happy to recommend such a motherboard. We'll probably have to wait a few more weeks to get a clear feel for that market.Gary Key - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
We are currently testing this board for an upcoming Core 2 Duo article, however, at the time Jarred completed this article the board was not widely available nor did our test board have a bios that fully supported all Conroe CPUs. There is not any AMD bias and we are still waiting on more "budget" boards with Core 2 Duo support to be released. It appears at this time we will have to wait until the beginning of August to see the 946PL, G965, and reworked 945 boards that will be in the $65~$100 range.sprockkets - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
Ha! VIA chipset.PC Surgeon - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
Doesn't matter if it is a VIA chipset. It's Conroe compatable and cheap.mesyn191 - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
The whole point of going Intel is so that you can use thier chipsets...VIA is OK, but I'd rather have a nV or Intel based board than a VIA one. That mobo is probably a POS BTW, you might as well look at a PCChips board...
jonp - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
Some observations/questions about this "budget" system:Memory choice: The DDR2 memory choice is given without much analysis. The specific part would be almost
impossible to determine without the article link. It is part number OCZ28001024ELDCGE-K and according to OCZ
http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_d...">http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_d...
has timings of 5-5-5-10 at 2.0v where the so called "stock" setting is given as 4-4-4-12-2T at 2.1V.
It appears that this memory is overclocked even in the base performance runs, so those performance numbers
are of no value to the non-overclocker. Some discussion of CAS 5 6400 memory vs CAS 4 5300 memory should have
been included as Newegg has some CAS 4 5300 for $33 less than the 6400 memory chosen which is really CAS 5.
Processor: The choice of a high performance GPU to turn the "budget" system into a gamer has it's own effects.
$192 has overshadowed choices like more memory or faster processors. For only $20 more the processor could
have been an Athlon 64 3500+ 2.2GHz rather than the Sempron 64 3400+ 1.80GHz unit.
Case/Power Supply: Now here is a non-starter. Great that this one "cheap" power supply has lasted for a while.
Lots of us have experience with "cheap" power supplies that would have us avoid choices of this type in the
future. Also, being able to build the exact system has always been a plus with the AdandTech system recommendations.
How could we, in general, duplicate "generic case with iCute 400W PSU purchased "locally"?
DVD: You keep picking the NEC 3550A but without much justifcation relative to equivalent cost Lite-On or other.
Motherboard: You pick the Biostar TForce 550 and then you say "...it seems to be in need of some updates...".
What are we to take from that? Is it a recommendation or not? How was it chosen among the many, many MBs?
Net: I am not really sure what to take from this guide. I don't think I would build this system as such. I am not
sure who the audience is (the only serious gamers I know buy XBox or PS). It doesn't give enough analysis/
criteria information to help make component selections beyond the specifics. I think this one is puzzling.
JarredWalton - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
I can give you some 5-5-5-15 DDR2-667 numbers as well as 4-4-4-12 DDR2-533, both using G.Skill DDR2-667 RAM. The differences are pretty small, generally less than 3%.I really don't even consider additional voltage on memory to be "overclocking" anymore, as many modules are rated to run with extra voltage and will in fact require it to run at tighter timings. The G.Skill DDR2-667 5-5-5-15 runs at 1.8V with those settings, but with 2.1V I can run it at 4-4-4-12; the same goes for a lot of DDR2 memory.
As for the OCZ RAM, we've http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=230...">tested similar memory in the past, and we were able to get some nice results with tuning. 5-5-5-10 is the rated speed, but you can certainly do a lot better. I switched to the OCZ because I was trying to determine if it would improve the AM2 performance on the Biostar board (it didn't), and because I had about $30 in "wiggle room" due to the RAM used on the 754 setup.
Again, I would not get cheap DDR RAM for overclocking if you are after ease of endeavor. I've done that as well, and at higher overclocks the performance impact can definitely be substantial. I also wouldn't recommend anyone actually go out and buy the Sempron 754 configurations these days, as dollar for dollar you can get more out of AM2 or 775 platforms. You will never see anything faster than Athlon 64 3700+ (stock speeds) on socket 754, for example.
JarredWalton - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
I forgot to talk about the Biostar TForce 550 motherboard. It was purchased right around the time socket AM2 launched, and given my experience with the socket 775 TForce board I figured it would make for a good budget overclocking motherboard. There are lots of AM2 motherboards available now, but in the budget price range there are very few that are likely to outperform the Biostar TForce 550 when it comes to overclocking.http://labs.anandtech.com/search.php?q=am2%20mothe...">Here's a list of the AM2 motherboards we're tracking sorted by price. I would be very surprised if any of the integrated graphics solutions overclock well, given my past experience with that type of motherboard, but I could be wrong. For better overclocking, the ASUS M2N-E should perform better (both in overclocking and stock performance).
The Biostar TForce 550 board looks great on paper, but the inability to POST at about 280 MHz HyperTransport bus speeds, as well as the lower performance relative to other AM2 motherboards left me disappointed. You could try the MSI K9N Neo-F, and it may or may not perform better. You can look at the performance achieved by the Biostar TForce 550 with the Sempron chip and compare that to the Gigabyte nForce 590 board with the same chip and you can get a reasonable approximation of the performance you are likely to get with such a configuration.
You want my honest recommendation? Wait until the end of the week and watch how Core 2 Duo performs. Then try to find a budget motherboard that will allow you to overclock the E6300 to 2.8 GHz or higher. It's going to be more expensive than any of the systems used in this article, but it will require less power and provide more performance.
PS -- most of the gamers I know that play with only Xbox or PlayStation do so because they don't know all that much about computers. It's partly a matter of taste, though, as some people will prefer the console gaming experience over a PC gaming experience. There certainly is no correct answer as to which is better, but with the escalating prices of next-generation consoles, budget PC gaming is looking a lot more flexible and attractive. These $650 PCs can also be used to do research and homework at college; try doing that with an Xbox 360, right?
mostlyprudent - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
I am trying to figure out how the Pentium D 930 (presler) would compare performance wise with the overclocked 805. The overclocked 805 still has a lower FSB, but a higher effective clock speed than the 930. Any thoughts?JarredWalton - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
You can generally get 4.0 GHz on stock cooling with the 930, so it's faster, runs a bit cooler (not really once overclocked), and it performs better because of the 800FSB default. It depends on the apps you're running, though - as can be seen, you need a better GPU than a 7600 GT for faster gaming performance. You would also want a better PSU for 4.0 GHz 930 overclocking - you can definitely break the 400W mark in such systems.sprockkets - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
I like the Biostar TForce 6100 board. The power button on the motherboard itself glows blue, and has a reset button on it as well. The fan options on it are very adjustable in the BIOS. Still can use the video card, but I know people here do not prefer uATX.InWin cases are also nice too for the price. They come with 350w power supplies with 12cm fans. Not the best power supplies, but not the worst either.
Calin - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
We were promised reviews of micro ATX mainboards a while back (hopefully with integrated video performance too, dual and single channel :) ). The article should be in the works now.Anyway, none of the integrated graphics/microATX boards I looked upon (from MSI, Asus etc) did have anything in the way of overclocking/overvolting/undervolting/...
I'm waiting, thanks
Rix2357 - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
Most of these motherboards are decently cheap, but I wonder if they are as stable as some more well established brands. Of course, I go way back and a mantra that I've heard over and over, for stability Asus and Intel motherboards are the only way to go. While the DFI board in the test could be reasonably expected to be relatively stable, I am unsure about the biostar motherboard.My case in point from way back. The ECS K7S5A motherboard for a Socket A Athlon motherboard was supposedly one of the best, but it still had it's quirks. It's no where near as stable as the Asus Williamete motherboard at that time. It also has cold boot issues that numerous different bioses have never fixed. Hard drive detection with a third party IDE controller could be problematic at best.
Calin - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - link
I have an ECS K7S5A mainboard, and its stability was good. Anyway, that was around the time when even top mainboards had one or two errors in 72 hours of benchmarks/stability checks.I would say Gigabyte boards are good too - I've had not so positive experiences with Foxconn boards.
JarredWalton - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
The Biostar + PD805 has been in use for roughly six months, without any noticeable problems. The DFI Infinity has also been in use for a while without problems. AM2 is too new to say how it is in terms of stability, but I definitely enjoy the extra features (because I am one of those people that has GbE running through the house). If your primary concern is stability, you'd probably want to skip out on overclocking anyway. One of the biggest difficulties in overclocking is determining long-term "stable" settings. It can take months to get what you feel is an optimally stable system, and minor tweaks to voltages, memory timings, bus speeds, etc. can turn a crash-prone system fully stable (or vice versa).Avalon - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
If these are budget considerations, why is 2-2-2 DDR memory and an XXX XFX listed in there? You can get an eVGA 7600GT CO for less than $150AR from time to time, and 1GB of CAS 2.5 memory will only set you back $90 and be practically as fast. That's $60 saved.Gary Key - Monday, July 10, 2006 - link
Jarred explained this on page 2. The memory selected for the S754 system is what we had available at the time for 2-2-2 operation. You are right that additional money could be saved for a minor performance delta. Since this article was looking at budget gaming performance, the XFX video card was chosen since it was still in our price range and is factory overclocked allowing a small increase in performance for those uncomfortable with overclocking the GPU. We mentioned that with rebates just about any of the 7600GT cards could be had for around $140~$160.
This article was designed to provide an umbrella look at what is available in the $650 price range and how it performs with today's game titles. We certainly understand that additional money could be saved or could be spent depending upon the individual's objective in building a system. As an example, on the S754 system you could have spent a little less on the memory but could have taken those savings and applied them to a better audio solution resulting in the same end figure. Some people would rather have the improved memory performance and live with the on-board audio. In the end, for about $650 you can build a decent machine today and there are an incredible amount of component choices that allow you to do this.