As for cooling, these cases are some of the most stupid designs i have ever seen. What are all those meshes doing on the stacker, but ruining the cooling performance. The proper way to cool a case is by using vacuum, and not by sucking or blow huge amounts of air in and out from all directions. A case should have one air intake (might be a few smaller ones), and one output. Only one fan is needed on the output, since it creates the vacuum to suck new air in from the input intake(s).
And as for the Tai Chi, no those fancy fans on the sides does not do much (if anything) for the cooling. The energy transfer rate from the air inside to the alu casing is very little, and does not match the effects of fresh air constantly moving through tha case. The only thing these fans will do, is to collect dust.
There is no doubt that the interior of these cases are cool then full of fans, but why use that many when you don't have to?! More fans equal more noise, and does not make it that much cooler.
For reference, my case has a total of 2 fans (3 if you count graphics), one in the PSU, and one in the back that cool CPU and keeps air flowing through the casing. I blocked off all those extra holes in the back and front, to make sure that the air flows past the HD's, over the chipset, through my Thermaltake Tower 112 (damn it's big), and finally blown out the back. At a room temp. at 23 °C, the interior and CPU temp is 32 °C idle (53 °C load).
alot fo people are wondering if these things really work and there are debates on both sides.
I bought the case recently and have come to this conclussion.
A typical heatsink is in direct contact with the heat source. The tai chi case only comes in contact with air for the most part. Now there is no doubt that there is hot air inside your case. The longer your case is running at full load the more of an effect that hot air has on surrounding components. While its true that air is less conductive that a directly contact, the massive surface area the case provides as a heatsink is what allows it to be so effective.
For doubters, take this simple test I did. Use a blow dryer to heat the side of your case, then use a blow dryer on the tai chi case. you will find that the tai chi cools itself much faster than a normal case. While i didnt take exact temps I timed the dryer exposure time and relatively how long each case took to cool.
After you can mount an ATX motherboard in the motherboard tray, you can use either the left (normal) or right (inverted) case slots to insert the tray.
You can relocate the four fan array to either side of the case.
You can change the side the front door is mounted to, which is great for left-handed people like me.
You have to screw down all components mounted in the 5.25in bays with the provided screws. The snap locks are there only for positioning and/or testing purposes.
The stock fans are noisy, sleeve bearing, and low MTBF units. Not good for this costly a case. OTOH, the fans in the ThermalTake might be just as bad ... :)
do you even own the case? have you even heard the fans? FYI they are both inaudible and i speak from first hand experience cause i own the thing.
just because it has a sleeve bearing doesnt mean its noisy.
I purchased an Armor case last year, and my one gripe about the case is the tool-less expansion card clamp (that green and purple thing in Anandtech's photos). It's flimsy, and it didn't fit with my Geforce 6800 GT video cards. So I removed it.
So much worthless processed hydrocarbon in my opinion.
And I wouldn't trust it to hold my cards in place if you're planning on transporting the case anywhere.
the specs measure the tai chi at 600mm or a little less than 2 feet. I woudl like to if height is measured with or without wheels and handles. because the clearance below my desk is right on the borderline and im afraid the handles will make it not fit.
I was wondering if you'd use some possible higher enthusiast (or just tests for plain looney people). What I mean by this is for example, I am in the market for a new case right now, because I currently have 5 HDDs in my Xaser III V2000A. I built a computer for a friend with a 7800GT SLi configuration and both of his video cards run 20C cooler than my single 6800GT (both being BFG OC cards). His 4800+ runs cooler than my 4400+ and I use a Thermalright XP90C with Arctic Silver V where he used the stuff that came in the box. So, yeah... thermals are why my games sometimes will mess up, but I'm not sure what cases are a good choice.
Like I said, it's kind of leaning toward enthusiast/looney to do tests where you up the thermal anty, but there are people with multiple hard drives in their machines and for people in predicaments like mine (where their hard drives sit in front of their only intake fans), they're in quite the pickle.
So what case are you using, friend??? It would help if we knew ... :)
For example, one of the reasons I am moving to the RC-830 is that my Lian-Li V1200 case does not cool the SLI graphics cards properly, so the whole case runs hot.
I have purchased the V1200 "Plus" cooling kit and some 120mm Scythe SFF21F fans though to remedy that problem.
The Lian-Li has an Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe, FX-55, 2x eVGA 6800GT 256M, 2x 74G WD Raptors and a hard drive in it.
The RC-830 will have a DFI LanParty UT Expert, FX-60, 2xeVGA 7800GTX ACS3, 2x 150G WD Raptors and a hard drive in it.
Both cases have a DVD reader/burner and a floppy drive in them.
From looking at the two cases, the RC-830 has the better cooling solution by far ... even after the Plus kit is installed in the Lian-Li.
The stacker 830 would probably be a perfect case for someone like you.. it has the potential for an incredible amount of air flow right at the hard drives and video cards
This article states the front bay pannes on the CM case are held in loosely. I find that strange being my $50 CM case (awsome case) actually uses screws to hold these in place, making them the most secure that I have ever seen. I wonder why CM felt it important to secure these tightly on their $50 cases but not on their $250 case?
Wrong! What Anandtech did not do with the RC-830 was to lock the 4to3 drive bays down with the provided screws. The snap locks are there only to position the drive bays, and anything else, that fit into the 5.25in slots.
Only the Lian-Li V1000 and V1200 cases, in my experience, have a fool-proof and moron-tolerant hard drive locking mechanism.
I have been using the Armor case for almost a year, and the green plastic clips still gives me nightmares.
If you get impatient, they'll simply detach and you'll have to nudge them back in again. In practice, I've wasted a lot of time nursing cards underneath the clips, reattaching the clips and finally pray it all fits in the end.
Even a simple old-school phillipshead screw would've saved me _a lot_ of time!
It is disheartening to see that TT not only makes mistakes, but insist on repeating them. :(
Also, the four holes for watercooling, on my Armor case atleast, are positioned too close. Atleast when attaching the Zalman Reserator-1 system. With the reserator you can choose to have a junction there so that you can more easily detach the cooler and move the case... Won't work if you have two Reserators...
Interesting point about the reserators.. what's the junction exactly?
As for the green clips, I tend to agree.. it's a shame they didn't come up with a solution as elegant as the thumbscrews used to hold the 5 1/4" drives.. but for the majority of cards they do work very nicely.
If keeping your components cool is the objective, I feel that the 830 wins by a landslide.
If you look neer the end of the review at the heat comparison chart, the 830 wins or ties all but two (HDD and System Exhaust).
The reviews gives the system exhaust win to the Tai Chi. I have to disagree. The fact that the components are cooler, implies to me that the system exhaust would therefore have to be hotter, because it is cooling the components better.
If you take the sum of the exhaust results you get:
Tai Chi 54.2/60.4
830 53.4/59.6
The combined values I feel demonstrate that the air temperature in the 830 is cooler and hence offers better airflow.
(I do not work for either of these companies nor do I own either of the boxes. My computer is a P3 650 :( )
You're absolutely right.. the 830 did a slightly better job of cooling than the Tai Chi did in our comparison.. BUT.. it was using FOUR 120mm fans to accomplish this as oppossed to the Tai Chi's two. The fans aren't rated that different in terms of CFM, so adding even a single fan to the side of the Tai Chi would undoubtedly bring its temperatures even closer to the stacker's.
Anandtech got a "non-stock" RC-830 case. The "stock" RC-830 case I received contained two fans, not four.
Besides, stock case fans are usually less than adequate. I would replace them with 120mm Scythe SFF21F fans because the Scythe have: high MTBF (150,000hrs), more volume (63+CFM), and lower noise (fluid bearing 28DBa). If that's too much noise, use a D or E model; less noise but less air too.
And no, I don't work for Scythe ... I'm opinionated is all ... :)
I made the most prominent mention of it right before the sound chart:
"With the finding that the Tai Chi cools just as well as the Stacker 830 with half as many fans, one has to wonder if that means that the Thermaltake fans are making substantially more noise. To see if that's the case, we used our sound pressure level (SPL) meter and rated the system's noise subjectively on a scale from 1 to 10."
Even without taking the fans into consideration, the two cases' temperatures were very, very close. Look at the HTPC roundup to see how much they've different in the past.
1) It's ok for different people to have different definitions of 'high-end'. For me, a great case for a decent price is higher-end than a case that costs twice as much and doesn't offer as much.
2) I mention the passive radiative design of the Tai Chi as a benefit, but perhaps didn't stress enough that the design is for the most part a waste unless one attaches additional cooling equipment to the sides so that conduction of heat to the fins would actually take place. What is true is that the case cools exceptionally well with only two fans. Is it the fins helping? While certainly I agree with you that they're not helping that much, I would still say that they're helping a little.
3) The cage itself lacks any active defense against vibrations unfortunately. Its design is of thinner material that has more bends to it, so inherantely it will aborb a little bit of the vibrations, but not much. We really preferred CM's cage in this regard, for this and the 4 drive capacity. That being said, seagate barracuda drives are still very, very quiet in the Tai Chi.
making the case out of alu does help dissipate heat from inside. the hot air does make the alu hotter and the fins increase the contact area with the ambient air.
the only proper argument against the heat sink design is that although it has fins to dissipate heat outside, it doesnt have a large contact area inside so the hot air of the interior wont transfer heat to the alu as fast. then again all this applies only in cases of passive cooling. with active cooling the whole heatsink design is wasted since the hot air gets thrown out and fresh air comes in.
i am the owner of a stacker 830 and i am disapointed to say the least. there is not a single spot in the case to mount even a single water cooling rad. having read so many reviews on the net about how this case is good for water cooling, i seriously question the validity of other reviewers and not of the anandtech reviewer.
I doubt the difrence between fins and no fins when the side only has contact with air is within uncertanties int he measurments, i see it as little more than a gimmick. And aluminum in itself also have little improvment in heat (over steel).
can be a pain already, but the dual-doors like on the Tai Chi are worse than a single one, IMO. It can make it really hard to put a case under a desk, or in a small area, and I would get really tired of having to open two doors every time I wanted access to one of my drives (which is why I got an Antec P-160, which stealths the optical/floppy drives quite nicely without needing doors).
I like the CoolerMaster's design. Still not a fan of a door on a case, but it seems cleaner than Thermaltake, whose cases have always come off as somewhat gimmicky to me.
The dual-doors aren't really as bad as you'd might think, but yes, it will definitely be a problem unless you have a large open space to the left of the tower... that is of course only if you care about opening it at all.. heh
The tai-chi has gigantic heat-sinks on the side, but to me they seem like little more then a gimmick. Almost nothing is in physical contact with them, and when they are only taking heat fom air, they seem to be virtually useless. I bet the diffrences if one had a "standard" side would be hardly measurable.
The CM 830 surly is more ugly than the old model IMHO, It doesn't quit have that "large clean beast"-feeling anymore.
It seems they were going for the look of the Zalman completly fanless case, but didnt bother to install the flush mount PSU or heatpipes that ran into the doors, haha. :p Oh well.
The 3/8" holes in the Tai Chi can easily be bored out with a twist drill bit (the regular ones) in a cordless drill. At least, they would be if the material is aluminum, and I think it is.
Could you invert the motherboard on the CM Stacker by installing the tray on the left side in place of the usual right side? If you could possibly allow for better CPU cooling sine the processor would be sitting on the bottome getting plenty of cool air and allowing hot exhaust to escape upwards.
Yes, you can. I'm surprised AnandTech missed that option in their review. I like mounting inverted (BTX-style) ATX motherboards because that points the HSFs on my graphics cards (I run SLI) up to help dissipate heat.
Is it possible invert the motherboard on the CM Stacker by installing the tray on the left side in place of the usual right side
By inverting the motherboard (insalling on the BTX side) it may allow for better CPU cooling sine the processor would be sitting on the bottome getting plenty of cool air and allowing hot exhaust to escape upwards.
I believe it would depend on which CM Stacker you get. I have the original and I run my ATX motherboard inverted on the opposite side just for this reason (cooling.) Also because I have an XP-120 on the CPU and don't have to worry about clearance issues with the PSU.
If you're going to buy a Stacker I suggest looking at the specs on all of them before deciding. If I was going to buy another one I'd get the original again. It offers the full 12 5.25" bays in the front, dual PSU's, ATX/BTX/Inverted ATX/Inverted BTX, and I think more mod potential than this new one. The reason is because it's so basic that you can just cut and add stuff wherever you want. The only thing I like about this new one is that 4x120mm fan array on the side. But if I really wanted to I could mod the side of my case for that.
Yes, the PCP&C 850W PSU should fit in the Stacker. You might have to orient the PSU so the cables exit from the bottom side to clear the 120mm fan in the top center, but the Stacker will let you do that.
I own the Thai-Chi, and my PC Power and Cooling 1 KW (same size as the 850) fits just fine. I heard a rumor that oversized PSU's, such as the PCP&C 850/1KW, won't fit in the CM Stacker 830. Can anyone comment on this?
I would say that as long as there's nothing protruding from the sides, top, or bottom of the PSU, it'll fit in the stacker fine... length isn't the issue, it's the sides, top, and bottom you'd have to watch carefully.
What a tough decision it would be to choose between those two cases, both are feature rich and well though out and designed. (if price was not a concern)
I love seeing case reviews on this site, especially considering how sparsely they are reviewed. What I would like to see are some reviews done on some cases that don't look like they came off they toy isle from the nearest Dollar General store. It would be sweet if you guys could do some reviews on the higher end offerings from Silverstone; especially the TJ07.
oh, and Lian-Li. I remember when Coolermaster was pumping out the sweetest cases you could buy. I love simplicity and elegance, and it seems that most companies are all about gaudy flash.
I was wafting between the Tai Chi and the Koolance PC3-725BK based on the Lian Li PC-V1000, it would have been great to include both watercooled versions for review, but great review regardless. I think I will go with the Koolance, as I agree the Tai Chi looks a little heat sink gimmicky. Hopefully I can stuff a PC P&C 850 in the Lian Li chassis.
The PCP@C 850W might not fit in the Lian-Li V1000 case; however, it will definitely fit in the Lian-Li V1200 case. I have the latter Lian-Li case but will be replacing it with RC-830 Stacker case ... the RC-830 case is just that much better.
I am buying Cool Master Stacker now :) . its an awesome case and goes arround $200AUD in Australia. I am going to use 2 PSU 480W antec and 550W antec. Go full crossfire when i sell my Asus A8N SLI-32 and buy either a RD580 mobo from ABit or ASUS or DFI.
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tscholz - Sunday, April 30, 2006 - link
As for cooling, these cases are some of the most stupid designs i have ever seen. What are all those meshes doing on the stacker, but ruining the cooling performance. The proper way to cool a case is by using vacuum, and not by sucking or blow huge amounts of air in and out from all directions. A case should have one air intake (might be a few smaller ones), and one output. Only one fan is needed on the output, since it creates the vacuum to suck new air in from the input intake(s).And as for the Tai Chi, no those fancy fans on the sides does not do much (if anything) for the cooling. The energy transfer rate from the air inside to the alu casing is very little, and does not match the effects of fresh air constantly moving through tha case. The only thing these fans will do, is to collect dust.
There is no doubt that the interior of these cases are cool then full of fans, but why use that many when you don't have to?! More fans equal more noise, and does not make it that much cooler.
For reference, my case has a total of 2 fans (3 if you count graphics), one in the PSU, and one in the back that cool CPU and keeps air flowing through the casing. I blocked off all those extra holes in the back and front, to make sure that the air flows past the HD's, over the chipset, through my Thermaltake Tower 112 (damn it's big), and finally blown out the back. At a room temp. at 23 °C, the interior and CPU temp is 32 °C idle (53 °C load).
seanp789 - Saturday, March 18, 2006 - link
alot fo people are wondering if these things really work and there are debates on both sides.I bought the case recently and have come to this conclussion.
A typical heatsink is in direct contact with the heat source. The tai chi case only comes in contact with air for the most part. Now there is no doubt that there is hot air inside your case. The longer your case is running at full load the more of an effect that hot air has on surrounding components. While its true that air is less conductive that a directly contact, the massive surface area the case provides as a heatsink is what allows it to be so effective.
For doubters, take this simple test I did. Use a blow dryer to heat the side of your case, then use a blow dryer on the tai chi case. you will find that the tai chi cools itself much faster than a normal case. While i didnt take exact temps I timed the dryer exposure time and relatively how long each case took to cool.
chynn - Thursday, March 2, 2006 - link
After you can mount an ATX motherboard in the motherboard tray, you can use either the left (normal) or right (inverted) case slots to insert the tray.You can relocate the four fan array to either side of the case.
You can change the side the front door is mounted to, which is great for left-handed people like me.
You have to screw down all components mounted in the 5.25in bays with the provided screws. The snap locks are there only for positioning and/or testing purposes.
The stock fans are noisy, sleeve bearing, and low MTBF units. Not good for this costly a case. OTOH, the fans in the ThermalTake might be just as bad ... :)
JoshuaBuss - Monday, May 15, 2006 - link
Actually the front door can't be turned upside down so that it opens the other way. I tried.. it doesn't fit.The snap locks work fine for permanent mounting...?
The stock fans I received are VERY quiet, even at 12v.
fsardis - Thursday, March 2, 2006 - link
do you even own the case? have you even heard the fans? FYI they are both inaudible and i speak from first hand experience cause i own the thing.just because it has a sleeve bearing doesnt mean its noisy.
Systemshocked - Wednesday, March 1, 2006 - link
I purchased an Armor case last year, and my one gripe about the case is the tool-less expansion card clamp (that green and purple thing in Anandtech's photos). It's flimsy, and it didn't fit with my Geforce 6800 GT video cards. So I removed it.So much worthless processed hydrocarbon in my opinion.
And I wouldn't trust it to hold my cards in place if you're planning on transporting the case anywhere.
My two cents.
seanp789 - Monday, February 27, 2006 - link
the specs measure the tai chi at 600mm or a little less than 2 feet. I woudl like to if height is measured with or without wheels and handles. because the clearance below my desk is right on the borderline and im afraid the handles will make it not fit.r33tr33t - Sunday, February 26, 2006 - link
Why doesn't AnandTech review the Zalman Totally No Noise Series?The TNN 500AF is more expensive than either of these cases and probably has competitive build quality.
Aikouka - Sunday, February 26, 2006 - link
I was wondering if you'd use some possible higher enthusiast (or just tests for plain looney people). What I mean by this is for example, I am in the market for a new case right now, because I currently have 5 HDDs in my Xaser III V2000A. I built a computer for a friend with a 7800GT SLi configuration and both of his video cards run 20C cooler than my single 6800GT (both being BFG OC cards). His 4800+ runs cooler than my 4400+ and I use a Thermalright XP90C with Arctic Silver V where he used the stuff that came in the box. So, yeah... thermals are why my games sometimes will mess up, but I'm not sure what cases are a good choice.Like I said, it's kind of leaning toward enthusiast/looney to do tests where you up the thermal anty, but there are people with multiple hard drives in their machines and for people in predicaments like mine (where their hard drives sit in front of their only intake fans), they're in quite the pickle.
chynn - Thursday, March 2, 2006 - link
So what case are you using, friend??? It would help if we knew ... :)For example, one of the reasons I am moving to the RC-830 is that my Lian-Li V1200 case does not cool the SLI graphics cards properly, so the whole case runs hot.
I have purchased the V1200 "Plus" cooling kit and some 120mm Scythe SFF21F fans though to remedy that problem.
The Lian-Li has an Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe, FX-55, 2x eVGA 6800GT 256M, 2x 74G WD Raptors and a hard drive in it.
The RC-830 will have a DFI LanParty UT Expert, FX-60, 2xeVGA 7800GTX ACS3, 2x 150G WD Raptors and a hard drive in it.
Both cases have a DVD reader/burner and a floppy drive in them.
From looking at the two cases, the RC-830 has the better cooling solution by far ... even after the Plus kit is installed in the Lian-Li.
JoshuaBuss - Sunday, February 26, 2006 - link
The stacker 830 would probably be a perfect case for someone like you.. it has the potential for an incredible amount of air flow right at the hard drives and video cardstjr508 - Friday, February 24, 2006 - link
This article states the front bay pannes on the CM case are held in loosely. I find that strange being my $50 CM case (awsome case) actually uses screws to hold these in place, making them the most secure that I have ever seen. I wonder why CM felt it important to secure these tightly on their $50 cases but not on their $250 case?chynn - Thursday, March 2, 2006 - link
Wrong! What Anandtech did not do with the RC-830 was to lock the 4to3 drive bays down with the provided screws. The snap locks are there only to position the drive bays, and anything else, that fit into the 5.25in slots.Only the Lian-Li V1000 and V1200 cases, in my experience, have a fool-proof and moron-tolerant hard drive locking mechanism.
JoshuaBuss - Monday, May 15, 2006 - link
I was referring to the pop-out panels that cover unused 5 1/4" drive bays. They're very loose, and there's no screws for holding them in place.BikeDude - Friday, February 24, 2006 - link
I have been using the Armor case for almost a year, and the green plastic clips still gives me nightmares.If you get impatient, they'll simply detach and you'll have to nudge them back in again. In practice, I've wasted a lot of time nursing cards underneath the clips, reattaching the clips and finally pray it all fits in the end.
Even a simple old-school phillipshead screw would've saved me _a lot_ of time!
It is disheartening to see that TT not only makes mistakes, but insist on repeating them. :(
Also, the four holes for watercooling, on my Armor case atleast, are positioned too close. Atleast when attaching the Zalman Reserator-1 system. With the reserator you can choose to have a junction there so that you can more easily detach the cooler and move the case... Won't work if you have two Reserators...
Tamale - Friday, February 24, 2006 - link
Interesting point about the reserators.. what's the junction exactly?As for the green clips, I tend to agree.. it's a shame they didn't come up with a solution as elegant as the thumbscrews used to hold the 5 1/4" drives.. but for the majority of cards they do work very nicely.
theoak - Friday, February 24, 2006 - link
The reviewer calls this a tie.If keeping your components cool is the objective, I feel that the 830 wins by a landslide.
If you look neer the end of the review at the heat comparison chart, the 830 wins or ties all but two (HDD and System Exhaust).
The reviews gives the system exhaust win to the Tai Chi. I have to disagree. The fact that the components are cooler, implies to me that the system exhaust would therefore have to be hotter, because it is cooling the components better.
If you take the sum of the exhaust results you get:
Tai Chi 54.2/60.4
830 53.4/59.6
The combined values I feel demonstrate that the air temperature in the 830 is cooler and hence offers better airflow.
(I do not work for either of these companies nor do I own either of the boxes. My computer is a P3 650 :( )
Tamale - Friday, February 24, 2006 - link
You're absolutely right.. the 830 did a slightly better job of cooling than the Tai Chi did in our comparison.. BUT.. it was using FOUR 120mm fans to accomplish this as oppossed to the Tai Chi's two. The fans aren't rated that different in terms of CFM, so adding even a single fan to the side of the Tai Chi would undoubtedly bring its temperatures even closer to the stacker's.chynn - Thursday, March 2, 2006 - link
Anandtech got a "non-stock" RC-830 case. The "stock" RC-830 case I received contained two fans, not four.Besides, stock case fans are usually less than adequate. I would replace them with 120mm Scythe SFF21F fans because the Scythe have: high MTBF (150,000hrs), more volume (63+CFM), and lower noise (fluid bearing 28DBa). If that's too much noise, use a D or E model; less noise but less air too.
And no, I don't work for Scythe ... I'm opinionated is all ... :)
theoak - Friday, February 24, 2006 - link
Ahhh,I was unaware and/or missed that the 830 had more fans. That would tip the scales a little.
For what its worth ... I agree that it is a tie then :)
Tamale - Friday, February 24, 2006 - link
I made the most prominent mention of it right before the sound chart:"With the finding that the Tai Chi cools just as well as the Stacker 830 with half as many fans, one has to wonder if that means that the Thermaltake fans are making substantially more noise. To see if that's the case, we used our sound pressure level (SPL) meter and rated the system's noise subjectively on a scale from 1 to 10."
Even without taking the fans into consideration, the two cases' temperatures were very, very close. Look at the HTPC roundup to see how much they've different in the past.
JoshuaBuss - Friday, February 24, 2006 - link
1) It's ok for different people to have different definitions of 'high-end'. For me, a great case for a decent price is higher-end than a case that costs twice as much and doesn't offer as much.2) I mention the passive radiative design of the Tai Chi as a benefit, but perhaps didn't stress enough that the design is for the most part a waste unless one attaches additional cooling equipment to the sides so that conduction of heat to the fins would actually take place. What is true is that the case cools exceptionally well with only two fans. Is it the fins helping? While certainly I agree with you that they're not helping that much, I would still say that they're helping a little.
3) The cage itself lacks any active defense against vibrations unfortunately. Its design is of thinner material that has more bends to it, so inherantely it will aborb a little bit of the vibrations, but not much. We really preferred CM's cage in this regard, for this and the 4 drive capacity. That being said, seagate barracuda drives are still very, very quiet in the Tai Chi.
fsardis - Friday, February 24, 2006 - link
making the case out of alu does help dissipate heat from inside. the hot air does make the alu hotter and the fins increase the contact area with the ambient air.the only proper argument against the heat sink design is that although it has fins to dissipate heat outside, it doesnt have a large contact area inside so the hot air of the interior wont transfer heat to the alu as fast. then again all this applies only in cases of passive cooling. with active cooling the whole heatsink design is wasted since the hot air gets thrown out and fresh air comes in.
i am the owner of a stacker 830 and i am disapointed to say the least. there is not a single spot in the case to mount even a single water cooling rad. having read so many reviews on the net about how this case is good for water cooling, i seriously question the validity of other reviewers and not of the anandtech reviewer.
ATWindsor - Friday, February 24, 2006 - link
I doubt the difrence between fins and no fins when the side only has contact with air is within uncertanties int he measurments, i see it as little more than a gimmick. And aluminum in itself also have little improvment in heat (over steel).LoneWolf15 - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
can be a pain already, but the dual-doors like on the Tai Chi are worse than a single one, IMO. It can make it really hard to put a case under a desk, or in a small area, and I would get really tired of having to open two doors every time I wanted access to one of my drives (which is why I got an Antec P-160, which stealths the optical/floppy drives quite nicely without needing doors).I like the CoolerMaster's design. Still not a fan of a door on a case, but it seems cleaner than Thermaltake, whose cases have always come off as somewhat gimmicky to me.
Good review, guys.
JoshuaBuss - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
The dual-doors aren't really as bad as you'd might think, but yes, it will definitely be a problem unless you have a large open space to the left of the tower... that is of course only if you care about opening it at all.. hehkalaap - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
I don't think this case is made for small spaces.latino666 - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
Uhh I can't see the pictures anyone know reason why?Also I did use Firefox and IE
ATWindsor - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
For some odd reason i don't get up pictures on anand anymore if i disable referer-logging, could that be the case for you?TallCoolOne - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
I also cannot see the pics, and also tried both Firefox and IE.JoshuaBuss - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
What about direct links to images? Does that work?http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cases/roundups...">http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cases/roundups...
Jojo7 - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
No.JoshuaBuss - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
Try a refresh. Sometimes the image server gets a bit bogged down.latino666 - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
Still can't get crap. I notice this problem also with the newegg article too. Man oh man did I want to see those pics.ATWindsor - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
The tai-chi has gigantic heat-sinks on the side, but to me they seem like little more then a gimmick. Almost nothing is in physical contact with them, and when they are only taking heat fom air, they seem to be virtually useless. I bet the diffrences if one had a "standard" side would be hardly measurable.The CM 830 surly is more ugly than the old model IMHO, It doesn't quit have that "large clean beast"-feeling anymore.
Cygni - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
It seems they were going for the look of the Zalman completly fanless case, but didnt bother to install the flush mount PSU or heatpipes that ran into the doors, haha. :p Oh well.Tamale - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
I'd call it a 'large techno beast' now ;)Howard - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
The 3/8" holes in the Tai Chi can easily be bored out with a twist drill bit (the regular ones) in a cordless drill. At least, they would be if the material is aluminum, and I think it is.JoshuaBuss - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
Yah, but it's still much easier when it can be taken apart and pieces can be worked on individually.Googer - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
Could you invert the motherboard on the CM Stacker by installing the tray on the left side in place of the usual right side? If you could possibly allow for better CPU cooling sine the processor would be sitting on the bottome getting plenty of cool air and allowing hot exhaust to escape upwards.chynn - Thursday, March 2, 2006 - link
Yes, you can. I'm surprised AnandTech missed that option in their review. I like mounting inverted (BTX-style) ATX motherboards because that points the HSFs on my graphics cards (I run SLI) up to help dissipate heat.Googer - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
let me rephrase that.Is it possible invert the motherboard on the CM Stacker by installing the tray on the left side in place of the usual right side
By inverting the motherboard (insalling on the BTX side) it may allow for better CPU cooling sine the processor would be sitting on the bottome getting plenty of cool air and allowing hot exhaust to escape upwards.
kextyn - Friday, February 24, 2006 - link
I believe it would depend on which CM Stacker you get. I have the original and I run my ATX motherboard inverted on the opposite side just for this reason (cooling.) Also because I have an XP-120 on the CPU and don't have to worry about clearance issues with the PSU.If you're going to buy a Stacker I suggest looking at the specs on all of them before deciding. If I was going to buy another one I'd get the original again. It offers the full 12 5.25" bays in the front, dual PSU's, ATX/BTX/Inverted ATX/Inverted BTX, and I think more mod potential than this new one. The reason is because it's so basic that you can just cut and add stuff wherever you want. The only thing I like about this new one is that 4x120mm fan array on the side. But if I really wanted to I could mod the side of my case for that.
Googer - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
Also will a PC Power and Cooling Turbo Cool 850 or any other oversized PSU fit in to either the Thermaltake or Cooler Master?chynn - Thursday, March 2, 2006 - link
Yes, the PCP&C 850W PSU should fit in the Stacker. You might have to orient the PSU so the cables exit from the bottom side to clear the 120mm fan in the top center, but the Stacker will let you do that.Matthews316 - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
I own the Thai-Chi, and my PC Power and Cooling 1 KW (same size as the 850) fits just fine. I heard a rumor that oversized PSU's, such as the PCP&C 850/1KW, won't fit in the CM Stacker 830. Can anyone comment on this?JoshuaBuss - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
I would say that as long as there's nothing protruding from the sides, top, or bottom of the PSU, it'll fit in the stacker fine... length isn't the issue, it's the sides, top, and bottom you'd have to watch carefully.Googer - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
What a tough decision it would be to choose between those two cases, both are feature rich and well though out and designed. (if price was not a concern)yanquii - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
I love seeing case reviews on this site, especially considering how sparsely they are reviewed. What I would like to see are some reviews done on some cases that don't look like they came off they toy isle from the nearest Dollar General store. It would be sweet if you guys could do some reviews on the higher end offerings from Silverstone; especially the TJ07.yanquii - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
oh, and Lian-Li. I remember when Coolermaster was pumping out the sweetest cases you could buy. I love simplicity and elegance, and it seems that most companies are all about gaudy flash.BubbaJudge - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
I was wafting between the Tai Chi and the Koolance PC3-725BK based on the Lian Li PC-V1000, it would have been great to include both watercooled versions for review, but great review regardless. I think I will go with the Koolance, as I agree the Tai Chi looks a little heat sink gimmicky. Hopefully I can stuff a PC P&C 850 in the Lian Li chassis.chynn - Thursday, March 2, 2006 - link
The PCP@C 850W might not fit in the Lian-Li V1000 case; however, it will definitely fit in the Lian-Li V1200 case. I have the latter Lian-Li case but will be replacing it with RC-830 Stacker case ... the RC-830 case is just that much better.mkruer - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
Call me old fashion but I like the simple designRip the Jacker - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
first.tuteja1986 - Thursday, February 23, 2006 - link
I am buying Cool Master Stacker now :) . its an awesome case and goes arround $200AUD in Australia. I am going to use 2 PSU 480W antec and 550W antec. Go full crossfire when i sell my Asus A8N SLI-32 and buy either a RD580 mobo from ABit or ASUS or DFI.