I have just replaced the "x" clamps on a friends board after previously repairing 2 others with 3"rlod".
I used this method-
Removed x clamps and heat sinks
Cleaned dice and sinks thoroughly with methanol and cotton buds
Put a spot of artic silver on the dice
Mounted heat sinks with m5 machine screws, nylon washers and washers
Let the board warm up till the 2 red lights came on and then let it cool
This method worked a treat on both others
The problem with this one is it plays a game for about 5-10 minutes then just freezes up. If i switch it off then back on it comes up with the 3 reds again. I can manage to get it to work again but the screen eventually freezes again and 3 reds. Any ideas what could be causing this or to solve this would be greatly appreciated
i was going to paint my 360, but dont want to screw over my warranty, is there any way that you can take the outer shell apart and not leave any visible evidence(besides the color change) that you have taken the shell off and tooled around with it?
Just google "cpu dice" - I found this quote right away:
"AMD is not in a position to move its product line to dual-core until it brings on an additional fab--either it's own Fab 36 or a foundry," Kevin Krewell, an analyst for In-Stat and editor of the Microprocessor Report, said Thursday. "Dual core equals two regular CPU dice, so it's not cost effective for AMD to ship dual-core [chips] for the same price as single-core. AMD needs to keep dollars per wafer growing, and aggressive pricing of dual-core would reduce it."
Looks like many people use to term dice. So for you guys bitching and moaning for Anand to chaneg it - guess what - No Dice!
Just google "cpu dies" - although you get some hits about dead processors, there are many more abot processor manufacturing, more than you get by googling "cpu dice" (the vast majority of those are to do with random number generation).
The correct trm for more than one CPU die is "dies".
CPU "die" is called that because the CPU is cut from silicon in a specific term called "dicing". "Dice" is in fact the correct word.
Just because I had nothing better to do this weekend besides beat Kameo in 10 hours, I put together an etymology of all words related to "Die". I'll put that on a website sometime in the near future.
That makes little sense. You dice food but you don't call the resulting piece(s) "die" or "dice". However, a processor is made from a die (remember die-cast metal cars when you were a kid?), and if you have more than one of that type of die, you have dies. Even the Google search comparison between "dies" and "dice" confirms that to be true.
pl. dies A device used for cutting out, forming, or stamping material, especially:
An engraved metal piece used for impressing a design onto a softer metal, as in coining money.
One of several component pieces that are fitted into a diestock to cut threads on screws or bolts.
A part on a machine that punches shaped holes in, cuts, or forms sheet metal, cardboard, or other stock.
A metal block containing small conical holes through which plastic, metal, or other ductile material is extruded or drawn.
pl. dies Architecture. The dado of a pedestal, especially when cube-shaped.
pl. dice A small cube marked on each side with from one to six dots, usually used in pairs in gambling and in various other games.
dice (used with a sing. verb) A game of chance using dice.
tr.v. died, die·ing, dies To cut, form, or stamp with or as if with a die.
The worst part is people reading the article who've never heard it used like that before (because it's wrong) are going to think you've got it right and will start saying it.
Considering they were corrected by someone else in a previous article about "dies/dice" and are still making the same mistake, it's important to make sure they fix it this time before it becomes a permanent fixture of this site.
And yes, that's really all I thought was worthy of mentioning. The review is pretty cool.
Very interesting! Thanks for taking the time to respond, Anand.
I wouldn't be surprised if it simply slipped through marketing department editing, considering dictionary.com is saying it should be "dies". "Dice" is normally only ever for the six-sided tools of chance/gambling.
If they're creating a new use for the term, that in itself would be pretty noteworthy as well.
1) If I buy the cheaper XBox360, how easy is it to add my own notebook hard disk later if I want it? Would have been very useful to know, and wasn't made clear.
2) Media playback compatibility info --I'm sure the unit can play DVD's, and probably MP3's, but can it play DivX content? Xvid? MPEG-4 or HD WMV? These would be good things to know. A video game console has moderate usefulness to me; a video game console with broad media playback capabilities far more so.
Finally, a comment to Microsoft: If the Xbox360 had Media Center compatibility (read: PVR), I'd have bought it in a heartbeat without having to think about it. It would be the perfect home theater convergence device. It's really too bad this wasn't an option.
In response to your second point, the XBox360 does include support for Windows Media center. That is my main point of interest as well. The latest update rollup for windows media center 2005 (was released just over a month ago) adds support for the xbox360. Notice in the picture of the remote it also has the green button.
quote: In response to your second point, the XBox360 does include support for Windows Media center. That is my main point of interest as well. The latest update rollup for windows media center 2005 (was released just over a month ago) adds support for the xbox360. Notice in the picture of the remote it also has the green button.
According to what I've read, that's support for a Windows Media Center PC attatched to it, not the ability to run Windows Media Center.. That's not really what I want. I want to be able to hook the thing up to a TV, insert a CD or DVD with DivX content on it, and just play back that way. Still not clear if I can do that.
Check and see if it is a single chip SATA logic or a bridged soulution please. If its the former, I predict a surge in availability of cheap, (oem?) SATA DVD-ROMs.
Which is good news for people who like cable management or own a newer Intel mothernoard.
I went to my local Worst Buy and played call of duity 2. The graphics were cr*p with no anti-aliasing. If this is any indication of what to expect from this console then PC games and their players should have little to worry about.
Thanks for the close up shot of the South Bridge device. Can you provide more close ups of the 208PQFP directly above the GPU, and the other component to the left of the GPU, past the 2x DDR.
Seems as if a fan failure (or blockage of the inlet air passage) could potentially cause catastrophic failure of the critical silicon without effective thermal protection.
Anand, Kris, Tuan:-
Any idea of the nature and effectiveness of the thermal protection -- or wanna carry out a potentially destructive test by blocking up the inlet air on your presumably-rare Xbox360? An important issue for the TYPICAL technically-naive purchaser of the Xbox360, who is likely to be very careless about the Xbox360 ventilation and certainly will forget to regularly clear the inlet air-holes of sticky crud and junk. And what about the close-packed-finned heat-sink on the CPU? Such heat sinks on PC CPUs fill up completely with lint after about 6-9 months in a typical home environment. The Xbox360 is DELIBERATELY built to be non-user accessible for cleaning or any other purpose. A very big mistake. The internal air-duct should have been built on to a user-removable cover to expose the heat-sinks and fans for routine cleaning. I have had my share of cleaning out PCs that have become completely blocked up with crud, the first obvious symptom being erratic shut-down of the CPU by the motherboard thermal protection. The Xbox360 dissipates a lot of power in the core silicon --- much more than the old Xbox.
At present, I highly recommend taking a 2-year extended replacement warranty on the Xbox360, so that WHEN ( not IF) the heat-sinks fill up with junk (or the fans fail) and the box begins to function erratically, the owner can get a brand-new one :-) :-) :-)
Thanks for the article....shame slash-dot has killed your bandwidth!!
Seems like a good point about overheating...maybe worth waiting till 65nm chips start showing up...won't get one in the UK till way after christmas anyway!!(haven't pre-ordered)
Is it my connection or is anandtech being really slow, its not loading any of the pictures which is what I wanna look at. I'm guessing this is quite a popular article.
Anandtech's servers aren't handling this /. very well. But this is one of the first Xbox360 interal reviews (in a PC-hardware sort of fashion), so I'm sure every Xbox360 forum out there is posting links to it.
[quote]
game developers shouldn't run into capacity limitations on Xbox 360 discs anytime soon
[/quote]
Prominent game developers disagree
From "http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=56...">http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=56.... Note that this interview was before the next gen console debate in 2004.
[quote]
The danger is currently the storage medium (DVD), and one we thing we’re all praying for in the next round of hardware is that they don’t just go, ‘It’s DVD again’. We’ve done some clever stuff with compressing it, but we were virtually full on the disc with Vice City – this time we’re overfilling the disc to the max.”
[/quote]
If the developers worry about that much on not enough space to store sound samples, they should have invested on text to speech technology a long time ago, instead of relying on prerecorded sample. Unlike the cheesy Macintalk TTS in the 1980s, modern TTS can accurately simulate human speeches, even the emotional tones. Hey, Ananova uses it, does it not? That way the developers don't even have to worry about rehiring dead/retired/on-strike workers doing voices for games based on century-old movies!
Voice synthesis is great but it's really not at the point of replacing voice actors for dramatic games. Can you imagine watching a movie with the voices of your favorite actor dubbed in by a computer? Not quite the same.
Also, it's more than just voice overs; a lot of space is used for graphics, models, textures, landscapes, animation data, sound effects, and music.
Most current games don't need more capacity than standard DVD at the moment but some definitely do and others could at least take advantage of it.
Actually, the emotionalal aspect of TTS is already been done by http://www.computing.dundee.ac.uk/staff/irmurray/s...">various people. In fact, many commercial grade TTS software that supports http://www.w3.org/TR/speech-synthesis/">SSML already able generate emotionally sounding voices. It's not Microsoft's fault that game developers don't try to use/refine the existing TTS engines to make them usable for voice acting applications.
Why don't you try it first before commenting? You can find some demos on http://www.nuance.com/realspeak/rvoice/english.asp">Nuance rVoice's site. Depending on the title, the TTS voices sound better than the real live voices in some games.
quote: Unfortunately, we have yet to hear from Microsoft if this means that all games must be internally rendered at 1280 x 720 or if they can be rendered at a lower resolution and upscaled later on. There have been discussions involving at least one Xbox 360 game (Project Gotham Racing 3), rendering internally at a lower resolution and having the Xbox 360's TV encoder upscale it to 720p.
The reason for this can be found on Bizarre's Forums:
quote: For those wondering why this information would be true, here's the technical reason for why the game would probably be running at 1024x600 interally. On the Xbox 360, there is a thing called DRAM which serves as the framebuffer for the image. It has 10MB of DRAM, which means it can store a 10MB image, and the advantage is that it can render that image very fast (this is what gives the Xbox 360 it's "free" AA capability). Now the thing is, that 10MB can only store a full HD image (1280x720 and above) WITHOUT Anti-aliasing. So, they have a system where games can split a frame into seperate sections called tiles so that each tile would fit into that 10MB of DRAM. However, tiling is something that may have to be planned for early in the game's development, and the final Xbox 360 development kits (which were the only ones to include the DRAM) were only made availible a few months ago. In turn, Bizarre may not have had time to build tiling into the game, and therefor wouldn't have been able to enable anti-aliasing when it's running at HD. So instead, what they've likely done is lowered the resolution to 1024x600 and enabled 2xAA (which coincidentally fits into the 10MB DRAM buffer perfectly), which allows them to use anti-aliasing without adding tiling into the game.
This essentially means that all later games which are built from ground up to include tiling, will feature free AA and a native 720p resolution. PGR3 had to go this route, because of lack of time with the final devkit and time restraints in order to make launch.
these screws are NOT torx screws. these are Hex Heads.
you aint gunna be using a torx driver to remove them. there is a difference, and the T7, T8 are what comfirm this. Torx have 5 points, these have 6, and are deffinately completely different from torx as they are much harder to strip out.
quote: Torx is the trademark for a type of screw head characterized by a 6-point star-shaped pattern (in the same way that flatheads, Phillips, Allen, and Robertson have flat, ×-shaped, hexagonal, and square tips, respectively). People unfamiliar with the trademark generally use the term star, as in "star screwdriver" or "star bits." The generic name is hexalobular internal driving feature and is standardised by the International Organization for Standardization as ISO 10664.
A hex head is usually referred to as an Allen bolt or the infamous Allen wrench.
And as I posted earlier, from dictionary.com, the definition of dice is as follows --> A small cube marked on each side with from one to six dots, usually used in pairs in gambling and in various other games.
The item referred to in this in plural form is dies.
"You can now lift up the motherboard out of the metal chassis."
Less awkward, "You can now lift the motherboard out of the metal chassis."
"Three star bit screw drivers in the following sizes: T6, T7 and T12"
Is a three star ranked a little lower than a four star? ;) At first glance, I thought this was certainly a secure method of attachment if a screw driver with a three pointed star tip was needed. Torx, torx, torx!
"After two corners have been lifted, the rest of the clamp springs loose and can easily be removed by hand."
As these are not the small cubes used for gaming, the plural should be dies.
quote: There are 48 shader units in the Xbox 360 GPU, but given that we're dealing with a unified shader architecture, you can't compare that number directly to the 24 shader pipelines of the GeForce 7800 GTX for example. We roughly estimated the power of the Xbox 360 GPU to be similar to that of a 24-pipeline ATI R420 GPU.
Aww.. u guys shouldnt say that. Now it doesnt sound that amazing anymore.
24 pipe x800 doesnt sound as good as 48 pipe x1800xt.
Still great work disassembling console. It looks like it takes a while to disassemble it. Would this mean it would be hard to mod xbox360?
Well if a 700MHz P3 with 64mb ram and a geforce 4 can run doom 3 then imagine what you can do with mid-range hardware today. There is a lot of processing power in that box, especially for the price. I mean yeah a high-end PC is more powerful, but that's the way it's always been. I'm not a console person, mostly because I like shooters and a mouse/keyboard is completely necessary. Did microsoft change their policy towards keyboards and mice? I would love to lay the smack down on my friends in halo, but gamepads suck! Also whatever happened to the console being able to play with a pc over the internet? Didn't dreamcast have something like that?
Heh, they should say that if the computational power of each pipeline is inferior to the dedicated Pixel/Vertex Pipes used in the R520. They are more versatile in the fact that they can execute both pixel/vertex shaders, but in exchange for that versatility each pipe is made more simple, and there are more of them over conventional GPU's.
Why didn't they take apart the HDD unit's enclosure? Wouldn't be any less interesting. I'd sure like to know what brand, size and interface it uses. True capacity?
The article says the chip has the processing power of a 24-pipeline R420, but only about 1/3 of its memory bandwith. Although you do have to keep in mind the bandwith that does not get wasted on AA thanks to the daughter chip.
Looking at the internal shots it highlights the huge area taken up by the DVD drive, I wonder if they used laptop DVD drive tech, they could've made the console much smaller.
Agreed. I was very surprised to see that DVI/HDMI was left out of the first production run. My HDTV has all its component video inputs used up already, so it would have been nice to plug the 360 into one of the spare HDMI ports. I hate using switchboxes, but that's what I'll have to do with the component inputs now.
My Toshiba HDTV has an HDMI port (no DVI, but a DVI to HDMI cable works). However, it also has two component inputs, and that's far more common than DVI, HDMI, or VGA inputs on HDTVs.
Two dies as in tooling dies, are not referred to as dice. Dies is the correct word. The same applies to computer mouses. The plural for computer mouse is not computer mice, but computer mouses. Mice is a group of more than one animal, not more than one tool. I have thousands of dies here at work, and have worked around millions of dies, never once has anyone even suggested the use of the word dice for them.
From dictionary.com -->
die2 pl. dies or dice (ds)
1. pl. dies - A device used for cutting out, forming, or stamping material, especially:
1. An engraved metal piece used for impressing a design onto a softer metal, as in coining money.
2. One of several component pieces that are fitted into a diestock to cut threads on screws or bolts.
3. A part on a machine that punches shaped holes in, cuts, or forms sheet metal, cardboard, or other stock. 4. A metal block containing small conical holes through which plastic, metal, or other ductile material is extruded or drawn.
2. pl. dies Architecture. The dado of a pedestal, especially when cube-shaped.
3. pl. dice
1. A small cube marked on each side with from one to six dots, usually used in pairs in gambling and in various other games.
2. dice (used with a sing. verb) A game of chance using dice.
tr.v. died, die·ing, dies
To cut, form, or stamp with or as if with a die.
I don't care if AT gets it right or not as long as I can understand what they mean, but if we are going to discuss it, let's make sure we are correct.
Don't worry, be happy, bucko. Sorry for being so damn right cheery right now, I had my therapist appointment last night, lol, and I feel good. haha
Anyway, I pre-ordered a 360 for my godson at the local Gamestop, well the one I work at, on June 18th, and he will now be waiting for the second shipment! We are only getting 26! Only 26 "good ones" and two "core" units. Anyone know what exact part of the building process is holding up construction of the 360's.
Is it the video card, cpu, what? Is it the HDD and that is why they created the core unit? Anyone know? Anand?
As far as I know, Microsoft is keeping the supply really limited to make sure that they have a 'sellout' launch. No real technical issues, just marketing.
Update: Just in case anyone else browses here to use as a guide. I cracked open a Zephyr model yesterday using brand new torx key sets. The only required ones are T8 and T10. I posted a photo guide here: http://i.imgur.com/IQzr0k8.jpg
Just signed up to say this fixed my 360. Had the RROD with 3 lights one day and nothing worked at all although the power brick and its lights seemed fine. After tearing in I found all the thermal grease was not on the chips for the cooling but all around them all over the surrounding board, nice job (it was a refurb from Gamestop...) and it still had the original x-clamp so I'm not sure if the bad grease job was from Microsoft or Gamestop, either should have used less though...
Anywho, once cleaned and properly secured, works like a champ :)
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preciousstone - Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - link
this is nice, i found this tutorial via a wholesaler whom is selling this item at very attracting price.thanks!
preciousstone - Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - link
in case u will need the site address?http://www.volumerate.com/details.vr/sku.6116">http://www.volumerate.com/details.vr/sku.6116
covert0001 - Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - link
I have just replaced the "x" clamps on a friends board after previously repairing 2 others with 3"rlod".I used this method-
Removed x clamps and heat sinks
Cleaned dice and sinks thoroughly with methanol and cotton buds
Put a spot of artic silver on the dice
Mounted heat sinks with m5 machine screws, nylon washers and washers
Let the board warm up till the 2 red lights came on and then let it cool
This method worked a treat on both others
The problem with this one is it plays a game for about 5-10 minutes then just freezes up. If i switch it off then back on it comes up with the 3 reds again. I can manage to get it to work again but the screen eventually freezes again and 3 reds. Any ideas what could be causing this or to solve this would be greatly appreciated
steveyoung123456789 - Friday, December 9, 2011 - link
NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE FUCK YOUR TALKING ABOUT!xBublizZ - Sunday, April 1, 2012 - link
I know!JoeMontana1616161616 - Friday, July 5, 2019 - link
Shut the fuck up and go sit your ass back on the bench, Steve.itsmyfallt - Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - link
i was going to paint my 360, but dont want to screw over my warranty, is there any way that you can take the outer shell apart and not leave any visible evidence(besides the color change) that you have taken the shell off and tooled around with it?xboxrox - Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - link
here are a few more details of the insides -http://www.teardown.com/press/Port_Xbox_360_PR_112...">http://www.teardown.com/press/Port_Xbox_360_PR_112...
jugaaru - Friday, November 18, 2005 - link
I guess the anandtech server is getting hammered, I guess its the first full blown review. Nice work anyway.kmmatney - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Just google "cpu dice" - I found this quote right away:"AMD is not in a position to move its product line to dual-core until it brings on an additional fab--either it's own Fab 36 or a foundry," Kevin Krewell, an analyst for In-Stat and editor of the Microprocessor Report, said Thursday. "Dual core equals two regular CPU dice, so it's not cost effective for AMD to ship dual-core [chips] for the same price as single-core. AMD needs to keep dollars per wafer growing, and aggressive pricing of dual-core would reduce it."
Looks like many people use to term dice. So for you guys bitching and moaning for Anand to chaneg it - guess what - No Dice!
PrinceGaz - Friday, November 18, 2005 - link
Just google "cpu dies" - although you get some hits about dead processors, there are many more abot processor manufacturing, more than you get by googling "cpu dice" (the vast majority of those are to do with random number generation).The correct trm for more than one CPU die is "dies".
KristopherKubicki - Sunday, November 20, 2005 - link
CPU "die" is called that because the CPU is cut from silicon in a specific term called "dicing". "Dice" is in fact the correct word.Just because I had nothing better to do this weekend besides beat Kameo in 10 hours, I put together an etymology of all words related to "Die". I'll put that on a website sometime in the near future.
Kristopher
yacoub - Monday, November 21, 2005 - link
That makes little sense. You dice food but you don't call the resulting piece(s) "die" or "dice". However, a processor is made from a die (remember die-cast metal cars when you were a kid?), and if you have more than one of that type of die, you have dies. Even the Google search comparison between "dies" and "dice" confirms that to be true.akugami - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Anandtech with a comic from www.gucomics.com about their xbox 360 article.yacoub - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
As with the last article here that did this, you want "dies" not "dice".yacoub - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
"Dice" are only in gambling. You want "dies".
yacoub - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
pl. dies A device used for cutting out, forming, or stamping material, especially:An engraved metal piece used for impressing a design onto a softer metal, as in coining money.
One of several component pieces that are fitted into a diestock to cut threads on screws or bolts.
A part on a machine that punches shaped holes in, cuts, or forms sheet metal, cardboard, or other stock.
A metal block containing small conical holes through which plastic, metal, or other ductile material is extruded or drawn.
pl. dies Architecture. The dado of a pedestal, especially when cube-shaped.
pl. dice
A small cube marked on each side with from one to six dots, usually used in pairs in gambling and in various other games.
dice (used with a sing. verb) A game of chance using dice.
tr.v. died, die·ing, dies
To cut, form, or stamp with or as if with a die.
yacoub - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
DIES. DIES DIES DIES. Yarrr...
yacoub - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
The worst part is people reading the article who've never heard it used like that before (because it's wrong) are going to think you've got it right and will start saying it.xbdestroya - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Seriously, is grammar commentary the extent of your thoughts on the article?yacoub - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Considering they were corrected by someone else in a previous article about "dies/dice" and are still making the same mistake, it's important to make sure they fix it this time before it becomes a permanent fixture of this site.And yes, that's really all I thought was worthy of mentioning. The review is pretty cool.
Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
According to Microsoft and Intel, the plural of 'die' when referring to a CPU die, is 'dice'.Microsoft's internal documentation talking about the Xbox 360 also refers to the ATI Xenos GPU as having two dice.
I am waiting for responses on other chip makers to make sure that the correct form of the word is dice.
Take care,
Anand
gamigin - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Anand,Do you have any evidence to back up the following quote in spite of game developers claiming otherwise?
"game developers shouldn't run into capacity limitations on Xbox 360 discs anytime soon"
BTW, the plural of a manufacturing die is dies. If Microsoft or Intel said dice, then they are just wrong.
Phantronius - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Who are you, my fucking English teacher?yacoub - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Very interesting! Thanks for taking the time to respond, Anand.I wouldn't be surprised if it simply slipped through marketing department editing, considering dictionary.com is saying it should be "dies". "Dice" is normally only ever for the six-sided tools of chance/gambling.
If they're creating a new use for the term, that in itself would be pretty noteworthy as well.
Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Well the term dice is what the CPU architects use, so I don't think it's a marketing/PR mishap.Take care,
Anand
gamigin - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Most CPU architects certainly do not use the term "dice" as the plural to a manufacturing die.It's probably the same Microsoft guys who standardized the non-word "canonicalize"
Kilim - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Ah dude, are you saying that "normal" dice are only for six sided dice? Ohhhh, someone is trying to get the D&D guys to start flaming him, lol. =p.linuxOwnzIfUrLeet - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
I lost the link to the mod chip can someone post?LoneWolf15 - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
1) If I buy the cheaper XBox360, how easy is it to add my own notebook hard disk later if I want it? Would have been very useful to know, and wasn't made clear.2) Media playback compatibility info --I'm sure the unit can play DVD's, and probably MP3's, but can it play DivX content? Xvid? MPEG-4 or HD WMV? These would be good things to know. A video game console has moderate usefulness to me; a video game console with broad media playback capabilities far more so.
Finally, a comment to Microsoft: If the Xbox360 had Media Center compatibility (read: PVR), I'd have bought it in a heartbeat without having to think about it. It would be the perfect home theater convergence device. It's really too bad this wasn't an option.
Penth - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
In response to your second point, the XBox360 does include support for Windows Media center. That is my main point of interest as well. The latest update rollup for windows media center 2005 (was released just over a month ago) adds support for the xbox360. Notice in the picture of the remote it also has the green button.LoneWolf15 - Friday, November 18, 2005 - link
According to what I've read, that's support for a Windows Media Center PC attatched to it, not the ability to run Windows Media Center.. That's not really what I want. I want to be able to hook the thing up to a TV, insert a CD or DVD with DivX content on it, and just play back that way. Still not clear if I can do that.
Ecmaster76 - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
I demand further disassemblage of the DVD!Check and see if it is a single chip SATA logic or a bridged soulution please. If its the former, I predict a surge in availability of cheap, (oem?) SATA DVD-ROMs.
Which is good news for people who like cable management or own a newer Intel mothernoard.
Xenoterranos - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
I was dissapointed in the RAM being soldered to the board. I was looing forward to ramming a couple gig-sticks in there.Griswold - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Open case - ramm a couple sticks in - close case - shake it - done.Googer - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
I went to my local Worst Buy and played call of duity 2. The graphics were cr*p with no anti-aliasing. If this is any indication of what to expect from this console then PC games and their players should have little to worry about.dj 315 - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Still it seems most have been set up incorrectlynyquistcapital - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Thanks for the close up shot of the South Bridge device. Can you provide more close ups of the 208PQFP directly above the GPU, and the other component to the left of the GPU, past the 2x DDR.Really cool stuff guys!
lymz - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
The capacitors in the pictures look an awful lot like the ones that Dell and Apple are having problems with. Perhaps something worth investigating...kilkennycat - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Seems as if a fan failure (or blockage of the inlet air passage) could potentially cause catastrophic failure of the critical silicon without effective thermal protection.Anand, Kris, Tuan:-
Any idea of the nature and effectiveness of the thermal protection -- or wanna carry out a potentially destructive test by blocking up the inlet air on your presumably-rare Xbox360? An important issue for the TYPICAL technically-naive purchaser of the Xbox360, who is likely to be very careless about the Xbox360 ventilation and certainly will forget to regularly clear the inlet air-holes of sticky crud and junk. And what about the close-packed-finned heat-sink on the CPU? Such heat sinks on PC CPUs fill up completely with lint after about 6-9 months in a typical home environment. The Xbox360 is DELIBERATELY built to be non-user accessible for cleaning or any other purpose. A very big mistake. The internal air-duct should have been built on to a user-removable cover to expose the heat-sinks and fans for routine cleaning. I have had my share of cleaning out PCs that have become completely blocked up with crud, the first obvious symptom being erratic shut-down of the CPU by the motherboard thermal protection. The Xbox360 dissipates a lot of power in the core silicon --- much more than the old Xbox.
At present, I highly recommend taking a 2-year extended replacement warranty on the Xbox360, so that WHEN ( not IF) the heat-sinks fill up with junk (or the fans fail) and the box begins to function erratically, the owner can get a brand-new one :-) :-) :-)
fuzzynavel - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Thanks for the article....shame slash-dot has killed your bandwidth!!Seems like a good point about overheating...maybe worth waiting till 65nm chips start showing up...won't get one in the UK till way after christmas anyway!!(haven't pre-ordered)
Face27 - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Is it my connection or is anandtech being really slow, its not loading any of the pictures which is what I wanna look at. I'm guessing this is quite a popular article.zech - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
The article was slashdotted:http://games.slashdot.org/games/05/11/16/1432205.s...">http://games.slashdot.org/games/05/11/1...5.shtml?...
Anandtech's servers aren't handling this /. very well. But this is one of the first Xbox360 interal reviews (in a PC-hardware sort of fashion), so I'm sure every Xbox360 forum out there is posting links to it.
ItsOnlyMonday - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Yes, these pictures are on multiple forums, somee even lack proper credits.. :-\gamigin - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
[quote]game developers shouldn't run into capacity limitations on Xbox 360 discs anytime soon
[/quote]
Prominent game developers disagree
From "http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=56...">http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=56.... Note that this interview was before the next gen console debate in 2004.
[quote]
The danger is currently the storage medium (DVD), and one we thing we’re all praying for in the next round of hardware is that they don’t just go, ‘It’s DVD again’. We’ve done some clever stuff with compressing it, but we were virtually full on the disc with Vice City – this time we’re overfilling the disc to the max.”
[/quote]
quanta - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
If the developers worry about that much on not enough space to store sound samples, they should have invested on text to speech technology a long time ago, instead of relying on prerecorded sample. Unlike the cheesy Macintalk TTS in the 1980s, modern TTS can accurately simulate human speeches, even the emotional tones. Hey, Ananova uses it, does it not? That way the developers don't even have to worry about rehiring dead/retired/on-strike workers doing voices for games based on century-old movies!gamigin - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Voice synthesis is great but it's really not at the point of replacing voice actors for dramatic games. Can you imagine watching a movie with the voices of your favorite actor dubbed in by a computer? Not quite the same.Also, it's more than just voice overs; a lot of space is used for graphics, models, textures, landscapes, animation data, sound effects, and music.
Most current games don't need more capacity than standard DVD at the moment but some definitely do and others could at least take advantage of it.
quanta - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Actually, the emotionalal aspect of TTS is already been done by http://www.computing.dundee.ac.uk/staff/irmurray/s...">various people. In fact, many commercial grade TTS software that supports http://www.w3.org/TR/speech-synthesis/">SSML already able generate emotionally sounding voices. It's not Microsoft's fault that game developers don't try to use/refine the existing TTS engines to make them usable for voice acting applications.Xenoterranos - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Ywah, sure, but can you get a computer to do a dead-on Ray Liotta? I think not my friends, I think not!quanta - Tuesday, December 6, 2005 - link
Why don't you try it first before commenting? You can find some demos on http://www.nuance.com/realspeak/rvoice/english.asp">Nuance rVoice's site. Depending on the title, the TTS voices sound better than the real live voices in some games.Questar - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
" We roughly estimated the power of the Xbox 360 GPU to be similar to that of a 24-pipeline ATI R420 GPU."What do you base this on?
Snuffles - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
From the article:The reason for this can be found on Bizarre's Forums:
http://www.bizarreonline.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t...">Link
This essentially means that all later games which are built from ground up to include tiling, will feature free AA and a native 720p resolution. PGR3 had to go this route, because of lack of time with the final devkit and time restraints in order to make launch.
Questar - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
" We roughly estimated the power of the Xbox 360 GPU to be similar to that of a 24-pipeline ATI R420 GPU."What do you base this on?
Questar - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
" We roughly estimated the power of the Xbox 360 GPU to be similar to that of a 24-pipeline ATI R420 GPU."What do you base this on?
nourdmrolNMT1 - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
these screws are NOT torx screws. these are Hex Heads.you aint gunna be using a torx driver to remove them. there is a difference, and the T7, T8 are what comfirm this. Torx have 5 points, these have 6, and are deffinately completely different from torx as they are much harder to strip out.
no, its Dice as proven above.
bldckstark - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
From wikipedia.com search for torx -->A hex head is usually referred to as an Allen bolt or the infamous Allen wrench.
And as I posted earlier, from dictionary.com, the definition of dice is as follows --> A small cube marked on each side with from one to six dots, usually used in pairs in gambling and in various other games.
The item referred to in this in plural form is dies.
Ruark - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
"You can now lift up the motherboard out of the metal chassis."Less awkward, "You can now lift the motherboard out of the metal chassis."
"Three star bit screw drivers in the following sizes: T6, T7 and T12"
Is a three star ranked a little lower than a four star? ;) At first glance, I thought this was certainly a secure method of attachment if a screw driver with a three pointed star tip was needed. Torx, torx, torx!
"After two corners have been lifted, the rest of the clamp springs loose and can easily be removed by hand."
As these are not the small cubes used for gaming, the plural should be dies.
Ruark - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
"Using your start bit screw drivers, remove the silver screws. . ."PhoneZ - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
"..START bit screwdriver.."? Or is that supposed to be star? Since we feel the need to correct people.Live - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
So how do we overclock it?DrZoidberg - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Aww.. u guys shouldnt say that. Now it doesnt sound that amazing anymore.
24 pipe x800 doesnt sound as good as 48 pipe x1800xt.
Still great work disassembling console. It looks like it takes a while to disassemble it. Would this mean it would be hard to mod xbox360?
jkostans - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Well if a 700MHz P3 with 64mb ram and a geforce 4 can run doom 3 then imagine what you can do with mid-range hardware today. There is a lot of processing power in that box, especially for the price. I mean yeah a high-end PC is more powerful, but that's the way it's always been. I'm not a console person, mostly because I like shooters and a mouse/keyboard is completely necessary. Did microsoft change their policy towards keyboards and mice? I would love to lay the smack down on my friends in halo, but gamepads suck! Also whatever happened to the console being able to play with a pc over the internet? Didn't dreamcast have something like that?coldpower27 - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Heh, they should say that if the computational power of each pipeline is inferior to the dedicated Pixel/Vertex Pipes used in the R520. They are more versatile in the fact that they can execute both pixel/vertex shaders, but in exchange for that versatility each pipe is made more simple, and there are more of them over conventional GPU's.CZroe - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Why didn't they take apart the HDD unit's enclosure? Wouldn't be any less interesting. I'd sure like to know what brand, size and interface it uses. True capacity?DRavisher - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Have I understood correctly that the GPU and CPU share a 22.4GB/s 512MiB memory? Isn't that kind of low compared to PC graphics?Pythias - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Nope. Its on par with low/midrange. But they be making games with it for years to come. Unlike the current flavor of the month gpu.
Slaimus - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
The article says the chip has the processing power of a 24-pipeline R420, but only about 1/3 of its memory bandwith. Although you do have to keep in mind the bandwith that does not get wasted on AA thanks to the daughter chip.lexmark - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
with the tedious security features, i wonder how many people will bother modding with the new $399 version...BigandSlimey - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Looking at the internal shots it highlights the huge area taken up by the DVD drive, I wonder if they used laptop DVD drive tech, they could've made the console much smaller.tuteja1986 - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
yeah... but then we would get a crappy laser that would die !apriest - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
HD gaming, but no DVI or HDMI?!! Shame, shame Microsoft...Coherence - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Agreed. I was very surprised to see that DVI/HDMI was left out of the first production run. My HDTV has all its component video inputs used up already, so it would have been nice to plug the 360 into one of the spare HDMI ports. I hate using switchboxes, but that's what I'll have to do with the component inputs now.glennpratt - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Does you HDTV have VGA? Thier is a VGA out.apriest - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
VGA (analog) isn't nearly the quality of DVI (digital), though it would be better than component.JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
My Toshiba HDTV has an HDMI port (no DVI, but a DVI to HDMI cable works). However, it also has two component inputs, and that's far more common than DVI, HDMI, or VGA inputs on HDTVs.cruzer - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Very slick design, looking forward to getting one!!cruzer - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
On page 5, "two dice on the chip", should that be 'dies' instead of 'dice'?cruzer - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Nevermind, dice is correct.apriest - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
I was wondering that myself until I looked it up!bldckstark - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Two dies as in tooling dies, are not referred to as dice. Dies is the correct word. The same applies to computer mouses. The plural for computer mouse is not computer mice, but computer mouses. Mice is a group of more than one animal, not more than one tool. I have thousands of dies here at work, and have worked around millions of dies, never once has anyone even suggested the use of the word dice for them.From dictionary.com -->
die2 pl. dies or dice (ds)
1. pl. dies - A device used for cutting out, forming, or stamping material, especially:
1. An engraved metal piece used for impressing a design onto a softer metal, as in coining money.
2. One of several component pieces that are fitted into a diestock to cut threads on screws or bolts.
3. A part on a machine that punches shaped holes in, cuts, or forms sheet metal, cardboard, or other stock.
4. A metal block containing small conical holes through which plastic, metal, or other ductile material is extruded or drawn.
2. pl. dies Architecture. The dado of a pedestal, especially when cube-shaped.
3. pl. dice
1. A small cube marked on each side with from one to six dots, usually used in pairs in gambling and in various other games.
2. dice (used with a sing. verb) A game of chance using dice.
tr.v. died, die·ing, dies
To cut, form, or stamp with or as if with a die.
I don't care if AT gets it right or not as long as I can understand what they mean, but if we are going to discuss it, let's make sure we are correct.
Zebo - Friday, November 18, 2005 - link
I've made this correction before as well but Anand's not listening..that's alright he's the man.Googer - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
I am getting a 404 error when I click on the photographs.Googer - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Thanks Anand, Kris, and Tuan for taking it apart so we can see what is inside of it. Awesome article, keep up the good work.MAME - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
article is way f'ed up guysKilim - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
Don't worry, be happy, bucko. Sorry for being so damn right cheery right now, I had my therapist appointment last night, lol, and I feel good. hahaAnyway, I pre-ordered a 360 for my godson at the local Gamestop, well the one I work at, on June 18th, and he will now be waiting for the second shipment! We are only getting 26! Only 26 "good ones" and two "core" units. Anyone know what exact part of the building process is holding up construction of the 360's.
Is it the video card, cpu, what? Is it the HDD and that is why they created the core unit? Anyone know? Anand?
Imazalil - Thursday, November 17, 2005 - link
As far as I know, Microsoft is keeping the supply really limited to make sure that they have a 'sellout' launch. No real technical issues, just marketing.Shlong - Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - link
Wow that power supply is a beastpossnfiffer - Thursday, December 30, 2010 - link
Hey precioustone very general comment with a link i sense spam how bout a mod removes that one. anywayz nice pix got mine opensteveyoung123456789 - Friday, December 9, 2011 - link
wow guys im learning so much and this is so fin thanks alot!! :).... jk your all fags go diedarckhart - Sunday, April 7, 2013 - link
Update: Just in case anyone else browses here to use as a guide.I cracked open a Zephyr model yesterday using brand new torx key sets. The only required ones are T8 and T10. I posted a photo guide here: http://i.imgur.com/IQzr0k8.jpg
ghxost - Wednesday, January 28, 2015 - link
Just signed up to say this fixed my 360. Had the RROD with 3 lights one day and nothing worked at all although the power brick and its lights seemed fine.After tearing in I found all the thermal grease was not on the chips for the cooling but all around them all over the surrounding board, nice job (it was a refurb from Gamestop...) and it still had the original x-clamp so I'm not sure if the bad grease job was from Microsoft or Gamestop, either should have used less though...
Anywho, once cleaned and properly secured, works like a champ :)