I just stumbled on to this write up and trying to get information on blending systems has been a major pain. I have a pc that is used for viewing images at high res. and an unused 23" older mac lcd (clear surround with a seperate power source and ADC TO DVI connector) display that I would like to use with this pc. I don't need game speeds but use dvd video on occasion. From the specs. It sounds like it will work, any ideas?
Just a minor amendment. On page 2 you mention that "The actual GPU isn't any different than what we've had on the Mac and PC side for a while; it still runs at 400MHz like the OEM Radeon 9600XT and 9650".
The GPU of a 9600XT is clocked at 500MHz, not 400MHz. It is the 9600Pro which has a GPU clocked at 400MHz. Which is what you would expect as the card you reviewed is a 9600Pro.
The Apple OEM Radeon 9600 XTs were clocked at the same speed most PC manufacturers clocked their retail Radeon 9600 Pros. The OEM 9600 Pros were clocked even slower when they were first introduced.
1. This is not the first cross-platform card. Most 3Dfx cards were cross-platform.
2. The Power Mac G5 does not use a SATA optical drive, it's standard parallel ATA.
3. ADC's high power requirements are because of ADC's ability to drive a 17" CRT display, not because of large LCDs.
The poster you are replying to is referring to optical drives, not hard drives. Optical drives are drives that read or write optical media such as CDs and DVDs.
"1. This is not the first cross-platform card. Most 3Dfx cards were cross-platform."
A Mac specific firmware had to be on the 3dfx cards starting with the Voodoo3s. The Voodoo3s were unsupported but you can flash them to run in a Mac. You had to reflash them to run in a PC. The Voodoo 4s and 5s had Mac specific firmware. They had to be flashed to run in PCs. You couldn't take a PC version and put it in a Mac and get it to run without flashing it.
The Voodoo1s and 2s were just pass through cards which only did 3D so they didn't need Mac firmware to handle the 2D 16 bit Mac OS issues (5551 (Mac) vs 565 (PC))
In the list of stores, you have "The Future Shop".
Future Shop, a Canadian retailer similar to Best Buy (actually bought out by Best Buy a while ago), has no "the" in the name. It is simply "Future Shop".
ATi's got to make the news headlines somehow. Now if cards were hot swappable then I could see a market for this, but currently if you use a PC and you buy this card, you might as well save the money for a session with your shrink.
Why is this posted in the PC section again? Why would any PC user want this card?
This sort of card isn't going to impress the gamers; but it is exactly the sort of thing that probably makes Matrox, and their ilk, really nervous. It looks like, in the next few years, pure 2d desktops won't really exist anymore, except among people who really don't care. So everyone will need a decent GPU. Also, except for hardcore cheapskates and/or the "LCDs are t37 suxx0r" crowd, a good chunk of the computer using population will being using big DVI connected panels within the next few years.
This is pretty much the perfect card for such an application. Especially now that pretty much anything will do for all but gamers and specialized workstation tasks, the upgrade that people will want will be high resolution panels. Is this expensive by the standards of 9600s? Certainly. Is it quite cheap compared to the few other cards that can drive huge displays? Certainly.
Did any of you bother reading the article? How many ATI or NVIDIA consumer PC offerings out there can drive an Apple 30" cinema display at the native resolution? That display reguires a dual-link DVI connector. I don't know of any other consumer level PC video card which has one. That's the main PC target.
"That display reguires a dual-link DVI connector. I don't know of any other consumer level PC video card which has one."
Monarch Computer has the AGP XFX GeForce 6800 128 MB DDR/8x-AGP/TV-Out/Dual-DVI (Retail Box) for $163. That makes $200 for a 9600 Pro look pretty sick.
Dual-link DVI is different from the card having two DVI sockets.
A dual-link DVI socket has double the bandwidth of a standard single-link DVI socket (330MHz vs 165MHz). That allows it to drive a display at a very high resolution with a normal refresh-rate.
That XFX card has two standard single-link DVI sockets and therefore cannot be used at such high resolutions with the DVI digital connection as the 9600Pro in this review.
Humm, I find it interesting that ATI is finally releasing a cross-platform card so close to the Apple transition to x86. Considering OpenFirmware is being dropped, the Mac side of this card will have to be completely redone for the new x86 Macs, so a card like this wouldn't have much of a shelf life I would think.
I don't see the use for a video card that is cross-platform compatible, except in the corporate environment....yet it seems like this would be a good direction for future cards...which, now that I think of it, will be a moot point being that Mac is going x86...
A side note though...
Wow, there is a "gamer" base for the Macs? With framerates like 44 fps from their highest performing systems, I feel for them! Come on over the the x86 side, we'll take good care of you...
I also don't understand why ATi is launching such product @ this time...It seems (my opinion) that they are bringing us backward, unless you can provide me with some rationale.
There are many mac users looking for an upgrade in video cards to take advantage of the new graphic abilities in the new Tiger OS software. (similar to what Vista is now announcing and will be included in subsequent beta versions). A 9600 card is just what the Mac doctor ordered. So I guess ATi is looking to provide a similar card for Window users who just want to get all the graphic features Vista can provide but not interested in gaming. If they keep the price low it will be a good seller
Of course, stupid dumbasses like you never understand anything. ATI just launched a 9600 Pro Mac and PC Edition, so it's logical to do a review now. Heck, even if ATI had launched this earlier, it would still make sense because hardly any of the Mac sites cover hardware for Mac.
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Fulie - Saturday, December 10, 2005 - link
I just stumbled on to this write up and trying to get information on blending systems has been a major pain. I have a pc that is used for viewing images at high res. and an unused 23" older mac lcd (clear surround with a seperate power source and ADC TO DVI connector) display that I would like to use with this pc. I don't need game speeds but use dvd video on occasion. From the specs. It sounds like it will work, any ideas?sprockkets - Saturday, August 20, 2005 - link
the pinout of the card looks agp 2x and not 4x/8xPrinceGaz - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
Just a minor amendment. On page 2 you mention that "The actual GPU isn't any different than what we've had on the Mac and PC side for a while; it still runs at 400MHz like the OEM Radeon 9600XT and 9650".The GPU of a 9600XT is clocked at 500MHz, not 400MHz. It is the 9600Pro which has a GPU clocked at 400MHz. Which is what you would expect as the card you reviewed is a 9600Pro.
a2daj - Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - link
The Apple OEM Radeon 9600 XTs were clocked at the same speed most PC manufacturers clocked their retail Radeon 9600 Pros. The OEM 9600 Pros were clocked even slower when they were first introduced.tooki - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
1. This is not the first cross-platform card. Most 3Dfx cards were cross-platform.2. The Power Mac G5 does not use a SATA optical drive, it's standard parallel ATA.
3. ADC's high power requirements are because of ADC's ability to drive a 17" CRT display, not because of large LCDs.
stratusgd - Saturday, August 20, 2005 - link
Actually, all G5 systems that Apple sells come with SATA drives, not PATA. Go look at Apple's website.SDA - Saturday, August 20, 2005 - link
The poster you are replying to is referring to optical drives, not hard drives. Optical drives are drives that read or write optical media such as CDs and DVDs.a2daj - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
"1. This is not the first cross-platform card. Most 3Dfx cards were cross-platform."A Mac specific firmware had to be on the 3dfx cards starting with the Voodoo3s. The Voodoo3s were unsupported but you can flash them to run in a Mac. You had to reflash them to run in a PC. The Voodoo 4s and 5s had Mac specific firmware. They had to be flashed to run in PCs. You couldn't take a PC version and put it in a Mac and get it to run without flashing it.
The Voodoo1s and 2s were just pass through cards which only did 3D so they didn't need Mac firmware to handle the 2D 16 bit Mac OS issues (5551 (Mac) vs 565 (PC))
lancediamond - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
Not entirely clear if you could do that unless I missed it - if so, that'd be sort of cool maybe?a2daj - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
Yes. That's the target PC audience.Guspaz - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
In the list of stores, you have "The Future Shop".Future Shop, a Canadian retailer similar to Best Buy (actually bought out by Best Buy a while ago), has no "the" in the name. It is simply "Future Shop".
karioskasra - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
ATi's got to make the news headlines somehow. Now if cards were hot swappable then I could see a market for this, but currently if you use a PC and you buy this card, you might as well save the money for a session with your shrink.Why is this posted in the PC section again? Why would any PC user want this card?
phisrow - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
This sort of card isn't going to impress the gamers; but it is exactly the sort of thing that probably makes Matrox, and their ilk, really nervous. It looks like, in the next few years, pure 2d desktops won't really exist anymore, except among people who really don't care. So everyone will need a decent GPU. Also, except for hardcore cheapskates and/or the "LCDs are t37 suxx0r" crowd, a good chunk of the computer using population will being using big DVI connected panels within the next few years.This is pretty much the perfect card for such an application. Especially now that pretty much anything will do for all but gamers and specialized workstation tasks, the upgrade that people will want will be high resolution panels. Is this expensive by the standards of 9600s? Certainly. Is it quite cheap compared to the few other cards that can drive huge displays? Certainly.
a2daj - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
Did any of you bother reading the article? How many ATI or NVIDIA consumer PC offerings out there can drive an Apple 30" cinema display at the native resolution? That display reguires a dual-link DVI connector. I don't know of any other consumer level PC video card which has one. That's the main PC target.Kazairl11 - Sunday, August 21, 2005 - link
"That display reguires a dual-link DVI connector. I don't know of any other consumer level PC video card which has one."Monarch Computer has the AGP XFX GeForce 6800 128 MB DDR/8x-AGP/TV-Out/Dual-DVI (Retail Box) for $163. That makes $200 for a 9600 Pro look pretty sick.
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant....">XFX GeForce 6800 at Monarch Computer
PrinceGaz - Sunday, August 21, 2005 - link
Dual-link DVI is different from the card having two DVI sockets.A dual-link DVI socket has double the bandwidth of a standard single-link DVI socket (330MHz vs 165MHz). That allows it to drive a display at a very high resolution with a normal refresh-rate.
That XFX card has two standard single-link DVI sockets and therefore cannot be used at such high resolutions with the DVI digital connection as the 9600Pro in this review.
MCSim - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
I bet that NVIDIA is releasing FX 5700 Ultra Mac/PC edition very soon. =)Avalon - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
Should have done this with a newer GPU. No point in this thing being PC compatible for $200.ViRGE - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
Humm, I find it interesting that ATI is finally releasing a cross-platform card so close to the Apple transition to x86. Considering OpenFirmware is being dropped, the Mac side of this card will have to be completely redone for the new x86 Macs, so a card like this wouldn't have much of a shelf life I would think.beorntheold - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
Don't ATI have anything better to do I wonder? Like saving their PC market for example?Cuser - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
I don't see the use for a video card that is cross-platform compatible, except in the corporate environment....yet it seems like this would be a good direction for future cards...which, now that I think of it, will be a moot point being that Mac is going x86...A side note though...
Wow, there is a "gamer" base for the Macs? With framerates like 44 fps from their highest performing systems, I feel for them! Come on over the the x86 side, we'll take good care of you...
IceT - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
I also don't understand why ATi is launching such product @ this time...It seems (my opinion) that they are bringing us backward, unless you can provide me with some rationale.sirfergy - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
The dual link functionality is why. Only other card for mac was the 6800 and that was very expensive.Doormat - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
If someone can afford a 30" Cinema display to utilize the dual link capability, they can splurge on a 6800DDL over this card.a2daj - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
Unless they have a G4 and want to use the 30" in it. Then the 6800 wouldn't be compatible. Only the new Mac Radoen 9600 Pro.MrFantastic - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
"As a card, the Radeon 9600 Pro Mac & PC Edition is an excellent offering."LoL.
It may as well NOT support PC's since no pc owner in their right mind should choose this '£200' oldie over something like a 9800pro/6600gt/800gt
a2daj - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
And how many of those "9800pro/6600gt/800gt" cards offer a dual-link DVI connector to run the 30" cinema display?Scott66 - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
There are many mac users looking for an upgrade in video cards to take advantage of the new graphic abilities in the new Tiger OS software. (similar to what Vista is now announcing and will be included in subsequent beta versions). A 9600 card is just what the Mac doctor ordered. So I guess ATi is looking to provide a similar card for Window users who just want to get all the graphic features Vista can provide but not interested in gaming. If they keep the price low it will be a good sellervijay333 - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
yes! I've always wanted to buy graphics cards 3-4 years after everyone else has had a chance to stress test them...funny thing is that I just upgraded from my 9600 Pro to a 6800GT :)
Questar - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
Wow, a review of a three year old GPU.My guess is that Anand had to give ATI a good suck in order to get 520 parts before launch.
overclockingoodness - Saturday, August 20, 2005 - link
Of course, stupid dumbasses like you never understand anything. ATI just launched a 9600 Pro Mac and PC Edition, so it's logical to do a review now. Heck, even if ATI had launched this earlier, it would still make sense because hardly any of the Mac sites cover hardware for Mac.Shut your hole.
bob661 - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
ROFLMAO!!!!GhandiInstinct - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
ROFLCOPTER/NICE!HardwareD00d - Friday, August 19, 2005 - link
LOL!