Unless I'm reading it wrong, Bergamo will have 4x SMP capability as opposed to 2x in our current CPUs. That's going to be interesting from a technical standpoint.
128C/256T, but also the ability to switch it into 128C/128T mode which if rumours are to believed, will outperform the 64C/128T 7763 by 60%. she's a monster.
Doubtful. Amazon claims that Graviton2 has 40% more perf/price compared to current competition. While Graviton3 offers 20-30% more perf/price than Graviton2. So, if Bergamo offers at least 70-80% more performance than Milan at the same price, which seems very much possible, it will be very competitive in terms of perf/price.
At 128/256 cores/threads and 12 channels (probably up to 2 DIMMs/channel), does it make any sense even to support dual-CPU configurations? As long as you can scale up memory enough with a single CPU, that's going to be more power-efficient (not to mention more efficient, period).
Most servers are dual sockets. When you get into virtualization, having dual sockets is nice since you have more RAM slots available. In fact you are more likely to be RAM limited in your severs than CPU limited. Having a server with dual socket 32c/64t CPUs plus 1.5TB or 3TB RAM total would be VERY nice. Right now I am limited to 1TB/server.
Not Xeon D, which was (at least initially) focused on power-efficient scalability. Reportedly, it was co-developed with Facebook.
The problem with dual-socket is that the cache coherency interconnect burns power and the latency of having to go through the other CPU has a big performance impact. While VM hypervisors and NUMA-aware scheduling and memory allocators can try to be clever about avoiding such scenarios, it's not a 100% solution. And to the extent that you can & are able to work around the problem, you might as well just sever the link and go single-CPU.
> In fact you are more likely to be RAM limited in your severs than CPU limited.
Perhaps CXL and memory tiering are better solutions to this problem. At least, it might scale better.
The most popular server type are dual socket. I cannot find the numbers at the moment but IIRC dual socket servers account for more than 50% of all servers. Depending on your applications it can be cheaper to go dual socket and not use LRDIMMS.
Right, but that's because RAM slots are tied to CPUs. Once we move to CXL, that model is potentially broken and we might start to see a lot more 1-CPU configurations.
There are still some usecases where 4 socket servers are used, when you need high transaction speed on one node on ever larger databases, like SAP Hana, granted the market share has plummeted thanks to the core explosion.
So much of the need for quad sockets with SAP HANA is RAM slots. Many times it is cheaper to go 4 sockets with non L CPU and smaller DIMMs than dual socket with L CPU and larger DIMMs.
CXL RAM sounds interesting but it will take a long time to come down in price. On top of that thing I've heard about is something like a RAM pool in a rack. How is that going to be setup to work with redundancy? Is it going to be like a SAN and have dual controllers? Right now if a host goes down you only have the VMs on that host crash. If your CXL RAM pool crashes you could have an entire racks worth of VMs crash. Then you might not be able to restart them all in you only have a single rack as you won't have enough RAM.
> I've heard about is something like a RAM pool in a rack. > How is that going to be setup to work with redundancy?
PCIe would already seem to lay the foundations for what you'd need, with features like bifurcation. So, you could split the rack into two, redundant pools with each node having a link to each.
The only thing that's complicated by that scenario is cache coherence, but maybe CXL solves that at the protocol level.
Once over a certain number of cores you will find there is diminishing interest for multiple sockets, but yes - the number of memory sockets and the price for larger DIMMs surely plays a role as well as the licensing models of OS or virtualization vendors like Vmware or Microsoft. >=4 socket are niche market (mostly HPC, large databases, SAP, etc...). Overall dual socket is still the main server market, but it's been steadily loosing marketshare since the core counts are increasing per socket.
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ballsystemlord - Thursday, June 9, 2022 - link
Unless I'm reading it wrong, Bergamo will have 4x SMP capability as opposed to 2x in our current CPUs. That's going to be interesting from a technical standpoint.Shorty_ - Thursday, June 9, 2022 - link
128C/256T, but also the ability to switch it into 128C/128T mode which if rumours are to believed, will outperform the 64C/128T 7763 by 60%. she's a monster.lemurbutton - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link
Monster for x86. Non-competitive vs Amazon Graviton3 in $/perf.AdrianBc - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link
You are probably right, but Amazon will not sell Graviton 3 to anyone.So this might be the best that small businesses or individuals will be able to buy in 2023.
Khanan - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link
Don’t believe and don’t feed a troll.gruffi - Monday, June 13, 2022 - link
Doubtful. Amazon claims that Graviton2 has 40% more perf/price compared to current competition. While Graviton3 offers 20-30% more perf/price than Graviton2. So, if Bergamo offers at least 70-80% more performance than Milan at the same price, which seems very much possible, it will be very competitive in terms of perf/price.mode_13h - Saturday, June 11, 2022 - link
At 128/256 cores/threads and 12 channels (probably up to 2 DIMMs/channel), does it make any sense even to support dual-CPU configurations? As long as you can scale up memory enough with a single CPU, that's going to be more power-efficient (not to mention more efficient, period).schujj07 - Wednesday, June 15, 2022 - link
Most servers are dual sockets. When you get into virtualization, having dual sockets is nice since you have more RAM slots available. In fact you are more likely to be RAM limited in your severs than CPU limited. Having a server with dual socket 32c/64t CPUs plus 1.5TB or 3TB RAM total would be VERY nice. Right now I am limited to 1TB/server.mode_13h - Thursday, June 16, 2022 - link
> Most servers are dual sockets.Not Xeon D, which was (at least initially) focused on power-efficient scalability. Reportedly, it was co-developed with Facebook.
The problem with dual-socket is that the cache coherency interconnect burns power and the latency of having to go through the other CPU has a big performance impact. While VM hypervisors and NUMA-aware scheduling and memory allocators can try to be clever about avoiding such scenarios, it's not a 100% solution. And to the extent that you can & are able to work around the problem, you might as well just sever the link and go single-CPU.
> In fact you are more likely to be RAM limited in your severs than CPU limited.
Perhaps CXL and memory tiering are better solutions to this problem. At least, it might scale better.
schujj07 - Thursday, June 16, 2022 - link
The most popular server type are dual socket. I cannot find the numbers at the moment but IIRC dual socket servers account for more than 50% of all servers. Depending on your applications it can be cheaper to go dual socket and not use LRDIMMS.mode_13h - Friday, June 17, 2022 - link
Right, but that's because RAM slots are tied to CPUs. Once we move to CXL, that model is potentially broken and we might start to see a lot more 1-CPU configurations.Zoolook - Saturday, June 18, 2022 - link
There are still some usecases where 4 socket servers are used, when you need high transaction speed on one node on ever larger databases, like SAP Hana, granted the market share has plummeted thanks to the core explosion.schujj07 - Sunday, June 19, 2022 - link
So much of the need for quad sockets with SAP HANA is RAM slots. Many times it is cheaper to go 4 sockets with non L CPU and smaller DIMMs than dual socket with L CPU and larger DIMMs.CXL RAM sounds interesting but it will take a long time to come down in price. On top of that thing I've heard about is something like a RAM pool in a rack. How is that going to be setup to work with redundancy? Is it going to be like a SAN and have dual controllers? Right now if a host goes down you only have the VMs on that host crash. If your CXL RAM pool crashes you could have an entire racks worth of VMs crash. Then you might not be able to restart them all in you only have a single rack as you won't have enough RAM.
mode_13h - Monday, June 20, 2022 - link
> I've heard about is something like a RAM pool in a rack.> How is that going to be setup to work with redundancy?
PCIe would already seem to lay the foundations for what you'd need, with features like bifurcation. So, you could split the rack into two, redundant pools with each node having a link to each.
The only thing that's complicated by that scenario is cache coherence, but maybe CXL solves that at the protocol level.
[email protected] - Thursday, June 30, 2022 - link
Once over a certain number of cores you will find there is diminishing interest for multiple sockets, but yes - the number of memory sockets and the price for larger DIMMs surely plays a role as well as the licensing models of OS or virtualization vendors like Vmware or Microsoft. >=4 socket are niche market (mostly HPC, large databases, SAP, etc...). Overall dual socket is still the main server market, but it's been steadily loosing marketshare since the core counts are increasing per socket.ballsystemlord - Friday, June 10, 2022 - link
Ah, yes, don't type things late at night when overtired.I got that wrong.
hm4013824 - Monday, July 4, 2022 - link
The BitLocker Recovery key will be required if Windows detects an unauthorized attempt to access files. It ensures that your information is protected from breaches. https://akamsrecoverykeyfaq.com/mode_13h - Thursday, July 7, 2022 - link
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