I would say one of the best value chips of all time. All hail the $70 Celeron 300a, which was often more performant than the PII 450, which was nearly $500.
The Steam Deck's APU ranges from 4 to 15W, according to Valve's own documentation. I do believe it's possible to increase the chip's TDP but not without tampering with SteamOS.
I think 22-25W is how much the whole handheld can consume with a demanding game (15W on the SoC) plus RAM, NVMe storage, screen, WiFi, etc.
I really hope there are some serious power gains from N6 (and perhaps architectural tweaks borrowed from Rembrandt, as well), for sure. I don't require much performance in my laptop (I use my desktop for those tasks), but better battery life would really be appreciated. I was consider upgrading to something with a 6x00U, but if this is reasonably competitive in power usage, it would look mighty tempting to me.
I don't know how much you can expect out of N6, but given everything we know about the specs and Steam Deck, Mendocino is an easy buy. Just not at $700 for me.
The screens have been the biggest drain on the last gen of AMD laptops that AT reviewed. So, the APU will not improve things much without the dedicated effort of getting better screens onto AMD laptops.
Yeah, I almost suspsected that might be the case, but perhaps with the 6000U's focus on battery life, perhaps there will be some preparation in the ecosystem for lower-power screens, with a bit of luck.
and while smaller caches are a burden on the high end, an 8MB (potentially 4MB if like x300U) should mean lower power outside of full load, though power gating is a factor I wish I knew more about
I hope it's not. Any and every Van-Gough chipset they have should go to Valve, we need as many Steam Decks out there. The affordable laptop segment will be fine without it.
Would be brilliant if Big AAA-Studios start to see the VSD as a legitimate console, and port their next-gen games (eg GTA 6) over to it. It would do wonders for competition sake, from the business side (Valve), the hardware side (APU), and the software side (Linux).
It is conceivable that the Steam Deck may get silently updated to use Mendocino which may allow slightly better power efficiency and battery life. Consoles often receive multiple die shrinks over their lives to reduce cost, and while ol' Morse Law doesn't scale for cost like it used to, if AMD intends to sell Mendocino at scale in low cost notebooks, then it may be easier for them logistically to support Valve to move the Steam Deck design across to Mendocino. It would help reduce the number of designs they need to manage with TSMC at the very least.
Steam Deck was always going to face supply issues compared to the big consoles, expectations should be kept low. What we are seeing is not native Linux gaming for the most part but a lot of refinement of WINE/Proton and companies making some effort to make sure games work with that. If there's a market for it and it's easy, why not?
I would expect so too - easy path by just using a N6 Van Gogh would fit AMD philosophy and the target market.
Curious to see if successor is using Zen4D cores as they are designed to be small and low power consumption. Wonder if it'd stays at 4cores or gets 8 small Zen4D ones then.
8x Zen 4C seems like the perfect way to go for a Steam Deck 2, but even another quad-core might be perfectly acceptable for gaming, as long as single-threaded performance keeps going up. At some point (for example, Zen 5/6), quad-cores will just match the 8-core Zen 2 in the consoles, which will be the lowest common denominator for gaming late into the 2020s.
8x Zen 4c would probably be a bad fit if you think about it because the biggest thing being hit with the smaller core designs is cache, which is a bad thing for gaming.
Ironically the best low-area option for gaming would probably be something Bulldozer-ish, since most FP calculations in games happen on the GPU.
The article did note it, but there's no confirmation of all of the details like CU count. Makes sense for it to be a nearly exact shrink of Van Gogh though.
It could be if it's downgraded enough. I forget where, but I've seen some truly breathtakingly slow DDR5 specs in some laptops, with speeds lower than even 4800 MT/s, which I didn't even think existed for DDR5.
Both zen2 and rdna2 are old at this point. Why does AMD take so long to turn their old (2019/2020) tech info mobile form? AMD could have seriously dominated the portable market had they released this in 2020
There was the Monet rumor on 12LP+. If that is real, it could make for a great laptop at bargain bin prices ($150-300). Not sure if that is worth it for AMD.
Mendocino is roughly Ryzen 3 4300U performance with RDNA2 and 6 to 10Watts instead of 15. This is a very good chip for SFF desktop and low end laptops. If AMD offers 3 models :20% less of 4300U, same as 4300U and 20% higher performance then Celeron is in trouble.
where did U get TDP values from_? ... roughly R3 4300u performance - definitely not ; latest /& greatest/ 4c/8t zen2 chip is 5300u which is lucienne; 4300u is 4t only renoir. Try to find how 5300u performs and then U realize that it ashames all pentiums, all i3s and even older i5s (10th gen).
Mendocino should (I guess would) be faster than 5300u - due to N6 node it should run on higher frequencies (see bump from cezanne to rembrandt) & thanks to magic in power mgmt (see rembrandt) it would also be easy to cool & run queitly and significantly longer on battery. No match for anything intel has at low end...
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StrangerGuy - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
Mendocino, also the greatest Celeron variant to have existed.Hulk - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
I would say one of the best value chips of all time. All hail the $70 Celeron 300a, which was often more performant than the PII 450, which was nearly $500.GL1zdA - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
Mendocino. Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time. A long time.boozed - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
I thought I was going mad for a momentToTTenTranz - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
It should be noted that this is probably Steam Deck's Van Gogh APU but on N6 instead of N7:- 4-15W
- 4c/8t Zen2, 2.4-3.5GHz
- RDNA2 4 WGPs / 8 CUs, 1-1.6GHz
- quad 32bit channels supporting DDR5 / LPDDR5
- WiFi 5, Bluetooth 5.0
deil - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
except steamdeck cpu is set to 22W or 25W? (at least by the rummors). it feels awfully close though, maybe that's the gain from N6?ToTTenTranz - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
The Steam Deck's APU ranges from 4 to 15W, according to Valve's own documentation. I do believe it's possible to increase the chip's TDP but not without tampering with SteamOS.I think 22-25W is how much the whole handheld can consume with a demanding game (15W on the SoC) plus RAM, NVMe storage, screen, WiFi, etc.
Dolda2000 - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
I really hope there are some serious power gains from N6 (and perhaps architectural tweaks borrowed from Rembrandt, as well), for sure. I don't require much performance in my laptop (I use my desktop for those tasks), but better battery life would really be appreciated. I was consider upgrading to something with a 6x00U, but if this is reasonably competitive in power usage, it would look mighty tempting to me.nandnandnand - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
I don't know how much you can expect out of N6, but given everything we know about the specs and Steam Deck, Mendocino is an easy buy. Just not at $700 for me.ballsystemlord - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
The screens have been the biggest drain on the last gen of AMD laptops that AT reviewed. So, the APU will not improve things much without the dedicated effort of getting better screens onto AMD laptops.Dolda2000 - Tuesday, May 24, 2022 - link
Yeah, I almost suspsected that might be the case, but perhaps with the 6000U's focus on battery life, perhaps there will be some preparation in the ecosystem for lower-power screens, with a bit of luck.Unashamed_unoriginal_username_x86 - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
and while smaller caches are a burden on the high end, an 8MB (potentially 4MB if like x300U) should mean lower power outside of full load, though power gating is a factor I wish I knew more aboutKangal - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
I hope it's not. Any and every Van-Gough chipset they have should go to Valve, we need as many Steam Decks out there. The affordable laptop segment will be fine without it.Would be brilliant if Big AAA-Studios start to see the VSD as a legitimate console, and port their next-gen games (eg GTA 6) over to it. It would do wonders for competition sake, from the business side (Valve), the hardware side (APU), and the software side (Linux).
Tom_Yum - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
It is conceivable that the Steam Deck may get silently updated to use Mendocino which may allow slightly better power efficiency and battery life. Consoles often receive multiple die shrinks over their lives to reduce cost, and while ol' Morse Law doesn't scale for cost like it used to, if AMD intends to sell Mendocino at scale in low cost notebooks, then it may be easier for them logistically to support Valve to move the Steam Deck design across to Mendocino. It would help reduce the number of designs they need to manage with TSMC at the very least.nandnandnand - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
Steam Deck was always going to face supply issues compared to the big consoles, expectations should be kept low. What we are seeing is not native Linux gaming for the most part but a lot of refinement of WINE/Proton and companies making some effort to make sure games work with that. If there's a market for it and it's easy, why not?Matthias B V - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
I would expect so too - easy path by just using a N6 Van Gogh would fit AMD philosophy and the target market.Curious to see if successor is using Zen4D cores as they are designed to be small and low power consumption. Wonder if it'd stays at 4cores or gets 8 small Zen4D ones then.
nandnandnand - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
8x Zen 4C seems like the perfect way to go for a Steam Deck 2, but even another quad-core might be perfectly acceptable for gaming, as long as single-threaded performance keeps going up. At some point (for example, Zen 5/6), quad-cores will just match the 8-core Zen 2 in the consoles, which will be the lowest common denominator for gaming late into the 2020s.lmcd - Tuesday, May 24, 2022 - link
8x Zen 4c would probably be a bad fit if you think about it because the biggest thing being hit with the smaller core designs is cache, which is a bad thing for gaming.Ironically the best low-area option for gaming would probably be something Bulldozer-ish, since most FP calculations in games happen on the GPU.
nandnandnand - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
The article did note it, but there's no confirmation of all of the details like CU count. Makes sense for it to be a nearly exact shrink of Van Gogh though.SarahKerrigan - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
So does this fill the slot in the roadmap formerly occupied by Dragon Crest?nandnandnand - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
One of the Dragon Crest slides showed it as 7nm. All of the info could have been bunk, or plans changed over time. We just don't know.Dante Verizon - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
LPDDR5 is cheaper than DDR5 ?DDR5 memories cost almost as much as these laptops. lol
Dolda2000 - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
It could be if it's downgraded enough. I forget where, but I've seen some truly breathtakingly slow DDR5 specs in some laptops, with speeds lower than even 4800 MT/s, which I didn't even think existed for DDR5.ballsystemlord - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
Yikes! I was hoping for more BW, not less.Dolda2000 - Tuesday, May 24, 2022 - link
To be fair, for something with the specs of Mendocino, slower DDR5 might actually be fine.syxbit - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
Both zen2 and rdna2 are old at this point. Why does AMD take so long to turn their old (2019/2020) tech info mobile form?AMD could have seriously dominated the portable market had they released this in 2020
Wereweeb - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
They had a lot of 12nm wafers from GF that they had to use for something, and not enough TSMC 7nm wafers.And I assume backporting Zen 2 to GF's 12nm node wouldn't be worth it.
nandnandnand - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
There was the Monet rumor on 12LP+. If that is real, it could make for a great laptop at bargain bin prices ($150-300). Not sure if that is worth it for AMD.nandnandnand - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
Zen 2 is cheap, small, and good enough. It's also better suited for a quad-core than Zen 3.Just don't pay $700 for one of these, or $599 as the presenter said it.
lazybum131 - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
Gosh I hope there are quad-core SKUs with low enough TDPs and price to work in a Surface Go 4 and that AMD is working with Microsoft to make it real.Re-hashing dual core Amber Lake-Y and Intel UHD 615 graphics from 2018 is getting real old.
ballsystemlord - Monday, May 23, 2022 - link
Will these CPUs have Pluton HW inside, or do we get spared this generation?https://www.anandtech.com/show/16269/microsoft-plu...
Akram Al - Friday, May 27, 2022 - link
Mendocino is roughly Ryzen 3 4300U performance with RDNA2 and 6 to 10Watts instead of 15. This is a very good chip for SFF desktop and low end laptops. If AMD offers 3 models :20% less of 4300U, same as 4300U and 20% higher performance then Celeron is in trouble.rofek - Tuesday, May 31, 2022 - link
where did U get TDP values from_? ... roughly R3 4300u performance - definitely not ; latest /& greatest/ 4c/8t zen2 chip is 5300u which is lucienne; 4300u is 4t only renoir. Try to find how 5300u performs and then U realize that it ashames all pentiums, all i3s and even older i5s (10th gen).Mendocino should (I guess would) be faster than 5300u - due to N6 node it should run on higher frequencies (see bump from cezanne to rembrandt) & thanks to magic in power mgmt (see rembrandt) it would also be easy to cool & run queitly and significantly longer on battery. No match for anything intel has at low end...