Seriously...450 Watt TDP (and likely much higher TBP) for ONE video card is really unbelievable. I can't comprehend how this is effectively air cooled.
You can only push electricity through wires so fast before it ignores the wires, therefore you add more wires that then need more power. To get more wires into the same space you have to make the wires very thin, which increases resistance and requires more power.
It's a 3 slot cooler, an inch taller than the card and about 2 inches longer than a standard full length card. It's a lot more massive than a standard GPU cooler.
A good gaming headset is probably still advised for the FE card though.
My 3090 FE is already a pretty noisy card despite 4 Noctua 140mm fans in a 5000D airflow case. It runs much quieter if I undervolt it to 250 watts instead of the stock wattage. With the same cooler + 100 watts more, this card really needs water cooling unless you like to game with headphones on.
Blower cards are going to be loud no matter what you do. System builders like them though because even if the customer wants a crap case with minimal ventilation the blower will just ramp up like a fighter jet engine at takeoff and suck air in through whatever gaps the case has and blast it out the back without thermal throttling severely like an open cooling card in a badly ventilated case.
I think ditching blowers was a huge mistake. Axial fans are much less efficient than "squirrel cages" and they have the inherent benefit of ejecting the majority of the heat out of the case, creating additional negative pressure to exchange cold air. It's a win-win.
I'm sure the eggheads at nVidia has their reasons. I lack a degree in thermal dynamics so who am I to judge. But my ITX case requires a blower and until nVidia or their partners offer a blower option on their newer cards I'm perfectly happy sticking with my EVGA 2080 or going to AMD next time - they have plenty of cards with blowers...
It was a mix of noise and the heatsink. Squirrel cage fans are ust plain loud. Every blower card reviewed over the years was just plain loud. Compared to the open frame 6900xts barely breaking 34db, its a pretty noticeable difference.
The other is the heatsink. In a blower card, the size of your heatsink is reall ylimited, doing heatpipes near impossible unless its a monster like the GTX 480. Open frame cooler heatsinks are WAY bigger.
As Khanan said, it's not a blower card. Either way, it's hard to dissipate 450 watts of heat in your computer case. Throw in another 200 watts from the 12900K and you're cooking.
Well if they would jsut bring back side fans instead of those goofy plexiglass panels it wouldnt be an issue. The high end GPUs I've seen in HAF 922 and 932 chassis have 0 heat issues!
Cooler Master ATCS 840 was designed to tame screamers like these. Same 230mm fans like HAF but pure aluminium case. You could probably put second PSU and custom water cooling and still have enough room for all the cards and 12 drives (6*5.25 and 6*3.5").
My Reality: I am still running with a Dell 200W Power Supply. No discrete GPU. So far so good! Wish although I had a job with APPLE it would pay more than operating a forklift on a third shift at Walmart with no medical benefits. Who is out there that can actually afford a RTX 3090ti? Greetings from Stehekin, WA and the man on the street!
It's still a single slot via a waterblock like Asus's EKWB 3090. Air-cooling is reaching its limits without more expensive cooling material to justify that direction instead of water cooling (custom loop, not AIO).
At some point we really have to face the facts that these cards are becoming an environmental irresponsibility. That level of heat generation (that I then need to air condition out) is probably the most frivolously damaging thing I do, ecologically speaking.
It really is starting to get crazy. Though people also have other hobbies that consume lots of energy--traveling and cars come to mind. But that doesn't make this any more reasonable.
I imagine moving to a smaller node will cut power draw and heat in half. They’re currently using Samsung 8nm, and TSMC N5 or N4P would both be notable improvements.
That's not going to happen. The new PCIe5.0 power connector ensures that GPUs like 4090 and up will guzzle more than 450W to 600W. The only question is how fast it would be ? Because that sort of power requires justification.
Rumors are 1.5-2X...which is too optimistic. Like this card will end up worse than Turing pricing, Sell $2000 MSRP card for top stack and make a 4090 with 2X performance for same cost in 6-7 months ? I doubt.
Well, the RTX-3000 series was mostly a "doubling" of the RTX-2000 cores. Basically the same architecture. Just like how the GTX-7 series was a rebadged GTX-6 series. Or how the GTX-10 series was an expansion of the GTX-9 cores (and GTX 750Ti).
However, there was an architectural shift between the GTX 7-series and GTX 9-series. That was a huge improvement. And another shift between the GTX-10 series and the RTX-2000 series. That change I wasn't impressed by it.
I suspect Nvidia will be launching the RTX-4000 series on a new (or tweaked) architecture. They will definitely be using slightly better node (eg Samsung 4nm, or TSMC 6nm) due to pressure from AMD. So it's possible the new dGPUs will have moderately "faster cores" or do more tasks but come with "less cores" (or roughly same amount). I have a hunch that Nvidia won't be able to raise prices much/at-all this time for gamers (unless crypto miners?), the power-draw will probably go up in every device category, but the performance increase will be substantial and likely justify the (already) high-prices and high-thermal properties.
If the power draw goes up on a newer node, then fundamentally more work has to be done per category. More work translates to more performance and therefore higher prices.
The exception is if competition forced prices down, such as Intel or AMD GPUs being similar in performance but slightly cheaper.
Environmental Responsibility, why do the so friendly government allow the water bottles to be sold when they pump Flouride into the water taps. There are so many instances of these so called Environmental hazards which are done by corporations and have more significant effect than a consumer.
The card is junk because of high heat output, 30% higher power than 3090 and no 30% performance benefit. And the price. Will you say a 1600W PSU is against the environmental standards, absolutely insane nowadays how people think.
They should simply put a maximum on the Wattage with a law, but this won’t happen, same as cars that never got any limitation on horse power. The only thing I saw in this regard was with prebuilt pcs in California that were limited by a power usage law, but that’s it and I’m not sure how effective it was.
And it was a great example of why you do NOT want the government getting involved, they managed to bungle it to the point that certian builds were not allowed to have SSDs.....because of idle power and whatever insane calculation was used to figure it out.
Vehicles got a limitation in the amount of fuel they could consume, not the horse power, and by limiting the consumption, manufacturers had to include turbo chargers to increase the HP without going out of fuel limitations. So now the car is equally or more powerful, more "efficient", but with an engine's life expectancy reduced by half due to the incredible amount of pressure it has to endure.
They didnt get "fuel limitations". They got emission limitations and were told to hit certian MPG requirements for entire fleets of vehicles using complicated math.
Also the "engine life reduced by half" is total bullshit. Modern turbo engines in passenger cars routinely hit 200,000 miles with basic maintenance. In the 70s 100k was due for an engine rebuild. There was a reason odometers only had 5 digets.
Oh and semi trucks run under significantly higher pressure for several MILLION miles. Pressure =! reduced engine life.
Law to limit what you are allowed to use is the dumbest thing I read in a long time. If you want to use all the power then you can, your bill will just be higher. Pretty soon you'll ask the government to handicap the other guy's internet because he is getting more spewed than you.
Gardeners and anyone trying to grow plants in even a semi-serious basis (such as to start a small nursery business) is not a fan of fluoride in water. It poisons plants. Some species are so sensitive that one watering will kill them — large plants.
People could get their fluoride from toothpaste and fluoride floss. Putting it into water is unjustifiable.
Note that XTXH is not a SKU, official or otherwise. It's just a bin of chips. If AMD were to create an official SKU out of it, such that it had a distinct product name/number, that would be one thing. But right now it's just a part used in factory overclocked cards, with no set standards for clockspeeds.
“NVIDIA themselves admit that “today's most graphically intense games don't take full advantage of the horsepower the RTX 3090 Ti offers. And that's fine.”
That’s a bit ridiculous and a cheap flex from Nvidia, there are games like Cyberpunk 2077 and BF2042 that will easily eat through this card in 4K and ask for way more, and then, wasn’t the original 3090 marketed as a “8K card”? I’m still laughing about that. Yea this card won’t be a 8K card either.
This. CP2077 still won't run anywheres near close to acceptable at 4k with raytracing on unless you enable a DOWNSCALER (even an awesome one like DLSS). Dying Light 2 is another one that doesn't run smooth at native 4k with RT on unless you enable DLSS, so Nvidia is lying through its teeth.
This 3090 Ti will give what, at best as 10-15% boost at 4k with RT on? The whole fundamental Ampere architecture isn't up to 4k performance with RT.
Both are unoptimized junk to be even qualified as AAA. Cyberpunk2077 is the worst of all. Both of these games offer absolutely nothing over RDR2 in terms of sheer complexity, scale and detail in any form or such. But end up overhyped to moon. Absolute trash.
As for the rest, yes Ampere is not ready for 4K. It's clear cut, for me I took the bullet because it's the last GPU to have Windows 7 support. And I game at 1080P only.
I agree. RDR2 is still the cleanest, best looking immersive graphical game out there. CP2077 has distracting draw-in even on the best settings, and the art is nowheres near as detailed.
Crysis established the fact that developers can get more press attention by releasing less-optimized games. That's why a game like the latest Far Cry can have poor-quality graphics and staggering VRAM demands.
Ubisoft titles are garbage both in the game quality and Tech of the Engine. All their new games are pure trash. Original Watch Dogs used Disrupt engine and they downgraded it hardcore ruining a lot of the aesthetics but once modded that game looks insane, WD2 vs WD stock, the first one wins by a huge margin.
Next is FarCry 6, did you see how the character models are ? Atrocious. Same for Odyssey and Valhalla, FC6 environments are somewhat better but FC5 looks way more beautiful. Also AC unity's AnvilNext2.0 destroys every single AC title in sheer NPC density and the overall texture quality, slap in an RTGI it will look like next gen title. The unfortunate LOD, NPC switching issues still exist, and why do you think ACUnity looks like that ? It's the only Ubisoft title which did not get downgrade treatment, which is why PS and XB need the 9th gen to get it to 4K60. While PC can get higher FPS with much more GFX fidelity.
Crysis 3 destroys so many games in pure GFX quality even in 2022, it's because of insane tessellation and post processing. They emphasized so much of the tech, which is why Gen 8 and Gen 9 consoles got the port after all these years finally and that too they cannot match PC fidelity. Also Crysis 3 runs amazing. If you mean Crysis OG, they bet on high speed ST 1Core performance, which didn't pan out, shame that they couldn't fix the Single Core utilization since then, also the game is superior to so many titles because of it's PC only centric approach.
My point wasn’t about how well-optimized Crysis was. It was about how other developers learned from the massive press attention Crysis received due to its hardware demands.
There are two ways to obtain a demanding (on hardware) game, ome that gets significant press attention because of that trait. The first is to release an optimized game that has more complexity in the visuals and the second is to release a game that is grossly inefficient.
Most of the time, journalists don’t differentiate between the two paths (particularly in performance testing of hardware articles), leading to the mistaken impression on the part of readers that a grossly unoptimized game is a better game — the assumption that hardware demands directly mean game sophistication. One site, for instance, recently stated that Far Cry 6 is ‘demanding’ in the context of a comparison review between an AMD card and a Nvidia at the same approximate price point — with nothing said about what kind of graphical quality gamers are getting for its VRAM demands. The article strongly implied that failing to have enough VRAM for the game is the fault of the card rather than the game’s developers.
In other words, it’s a marketing strategy that relies on cheating.
Yeah they use the garbage games as benchmarks - Cybertrash2020, Farcry 6, AC Odyssey all are pure garbage. Most reviews do not care about old games which are my personal preference because of high quality in game, visuals and no political BS. Only few written reviewers put a lot of games.
A friend was asking me about the noise out of my 3090, and to be honest, I don't hear it much in gaming, you have to run an application that maxes out the resources of this thing to hear it. And that is in an open Core P5 case.
I do however notice that it clocks down after very little use, and this I cannot abide.
I ordered the EK wrap-around water block, and will install it this weekend. 305 GBP for a GPU waterblock, I must be an idiot. But then i do not see any way to run this card for long durations without such a solution. Air-only seem not to be up to the job.
Funny, AMD 6900xt custom cards run at 34-35 dba in that same "obsolete" form factor, almost liek form factor has nothing to do with card design. Funny how that works.....
I have to say this is the worst graphics card I ever saw. 100W extra on top of a GPU that wasn’t efficient to begin with for just 3% more performance is just terrible and ecologically bad. In a world that already battles with climate change this is just a sign that Nvidia has to be limited by laws otherwise they will just do whatever they want, whether it’s good or bad. The same is true for AMD of course, I don’t want to see it from them either. They should stay at about 300W max for consumer products, with custom models able to go higher.
At least Nvidia isn’t selling it restricted to PCI-e 4x.
The 6700 XT is the biggest turkey. It’s also being sold on the promise of its ray tracing performance.
At least Nvidia’s product is a known quantity, not full of ridiculous gotchas. That said, this product shows how PC enthusiasts live in a strange warped fantasyland where CPUs need things like 360mm AIOs — without most batting an eye — and GPUs not only are expected to make due to small fans and cooler space allocation — the heat gets ejected right into the case.
The industry is broken. Where are the logical people?
There's nothing wrong with exhaling into the case, if you have a case with side fans. The industry doesnt make them because gamers want to consoom their PC through a cheap plexiglass panel.
the 6700xt isnt a gimped turkey, you are thinking about the 6500xt.
the "logical" people are busy whining on the internet about how the 3090ti uses another 100 watts while cranking up the AC to cool them off while they argue on reddit about how great they can virtue signal.
As for the so-called 6500 XT, yes. AMD’s deceptive naming is intentionally confusing and thus difficult to keep track of. That is another aspect of the 6500 XT that makes it a turkey.
Nvidia using deceptive numbering is the tu quoque fallacy. And, show me that Nvidia card that's stuck at PCI-e 4x — something no enthusiast would expect from a card called 6500 XT.
I get that arguing is fun but at least have something worth bothering a reader with.
When Apple released a cut-down Mac with significant shortcomings (like a 32-bit CPU on a 16-bit bus) it once had the decency to label it that way. The company's first machine like that in the Mac line was called the LC, for low cost. It sold extremely well, in terms of Mac sales. Apple didn't have to lie to customers to sell that product. The fact that it was designed to be a low-cost product helped it sell, in fact. The name was a marketing tactic and an honest one.
AMD could have done the same thing with its leftover laptop chips instead of trying to fool people with the name and with the also ludicrous ray tracing ad material on the box.
In addition, AMD cut off support for Fiji buyers after only 4 years for some of them. That's inexcusable. People should demand more from AMD, especially after what it did to the enthusiast community with the FX 9000 series.
Using more electricity is great for the enviroment, or have you not been paying attention to enviromentalists and their push for electric cards?
Also, you playing game sis a waste of energy, so is you enjoying a meal out, turning on a fan, or using a refridgerator. Do you do these things while complaining about the power use of a halo card?
The WHO’s report just released states that 99% of people on planet Earth breathe polluted air. Sitting in a traffic jam with fossil fuel vehicles is obviously part of that.
Electricity can be generated without air pollution.
Inhaled bad air is the biggest health problem humans currently face.
Try to understand the larger picture before making specious claims.
"Electricity can be generated without air pollution"
Not enough. Besides considering environmental impacts of having enough elements from the Earth to replace every car with an electric, or where "clean" electricity actually comes from (anywhere from solar to wind to burning coal or oil itself), I'm skeptical electrical grids in Mexico City, Istanbul, New Dehli, Mumbai, Moscow, would support all-electrics in place of every bronto burner, or that the masses can afford them. There's also the issue of which vehicles are the offenders. 99% of vehicles, the newest 99%, don't pollute nearly as much as the oldest 1%. We've seen the belchers rolling down the highway. One of those generates more pollution than hundreds of clean new oil burners. Folks who can't afford one of the newest 99% can't afford an electric vehicle.
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Flunk - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
I hear the 4090 TI will require you to hook up a power station directly to the card.blppt - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
"Requires one vintage RBMK-1000 power supply."Samus - Wednesday, March 30, 2022 - link
Seriously...450 Watt TDP (and likely much higher TBP) for ONE video card is really unbelievable. I can't comprehend how this is effectively air cooled.Grayswean - Wednesday, March 30, 2022 - link
Now you SLI power supplies instead of graphics cards.lilkwarrior - Monday, April 4, 2022 - link
High-end rigs have use 1200W for years; even Apple's Mac Pro supplies 1400W at minimum.TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
You'll eventaully need a seperate case with seperate cooling for your tri-fire PSUs.Dolda2000 - Sunday, April 3, 2022 - link
Well, the target market for these cards probably view them more or less as muscle cars, so I guess it's an active selling point.flyingpants265 - Monday, April 4, 2022 - link
And what exactly is the reason for this? I don't remember this ever happening before.coburn_c - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
You can only push electricity through wires so fast before it ignores the wires, therefore you add more wires that then need more power. To get more wires into the same space you have to make the wires very thin, which increases resistance and requires more power.meacupla - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
Oh hey, the first card to feature 12VHPWR connector.Hopefully, high end nvidia cards won't shut down on a transient power spike anymore.
Adonisds - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
How can that single small cooler be enough for a 450W card? How noise will the founders edition be?DanNeely - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
It's a 3 slot cooler, an inch taller than the card and about 2 inches longer than a standard full length card. It's a lot more massive than a standard GPU cooler.A good gaming headset is probably still advised for the FE card though.
Pneumothorax - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
My 3090 FE is already a pretty noisy card despite 4 Noctua 140mm fans in a 5000D airflow case. It runs much quieter if I undervolt it to 250 watts instead of the stock wattage. With the same cooler + 100 watts more, this card really needs water cooling unless you like to game with headphones on.DanNeely - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
Blower cards are going to be loud no matter what you do. System builders like them though because even if the customer wants a crap case with minimal ventilation the blower will just ramp up like a fighter jet engine at takeoff and suck air in through whatever gaps the case has and blast it out the back without thermal throttling severely like an open cooling card in a badly ventilated case.Khanan - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
It’s not a blower card. Nvidia doesn’t use blower cards since 2018.Samus - Wednesday, March 30, 2022 - link
I think ditching blowers was a huge mistake. Axial fans are much less efficient than "squirrel cages" and they have the inherent benefit of ejecting the majority of the heat out of the case, creating additional negative pressure to exchange cold air. It's a win-win.I'm sure the eggheads at nVidia has their reasons. I lack a degree in thermal dynamics so who am I to judge. But my ITX case requires a blower and until nVidia or their partners offer a blower option on their newer cards I'm perfectly happy sticking with my EVGA 2080 or going to AMD next time - they have plenty of cards with blowers...
TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
It was a mix of noise and the heatsink. Squirrel cage fans are ust plain loud. Every blower card reviewed over the years was just plain loud. Compared to the open frame 6900xts barely breaking 34db, its a pretty noticeable difference.The other is the heatsink. In a blower card, the size of your heatsink is reall ylimited, doing heatpipes near impossible unless its a monster like the GTX 480. Open frame cooler heatsinks are WAY bigger.
Pneumothorax - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
As Khanan said, it's not a blower card. Either way, it's hard to dissipate 450 watts of heat in your computer case. Throw in another 200 watts from the 12900K and you're cooking.TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
Well if they would jsut bring back side fans instead of those goofy plexiglass panels it wouldnt be an issue. The high end GPUs I've seen in HAF 922 and 932 chassis have 0 heat issues!bigvlada - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
Cooler Master ATCS 840 was designed to tame screamers like these. Same 230mm fans like HAF but pure aluminium case. You could probably put second PSU and custom water cooling and still have enough room for all the cards and 12 drives (6*5.25 and 6*3.5").JTWrenn - Friday, April 1, 2022 - link
Under volting? Do you work for Apple?Tom Sunday - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
My Reality: I am still running with a Dell 200W Power Supply. No discrete GPU. So far so good! Wish although I had a job with APPLE it would pay more than operating a forklift on a third shift at Walmart with no medical benefits. Who is out there that can actually afford a RTX 3090ti? Greetings from Stehekin, WA and the man on the street!lilkwarrior - Monday, April 4, 2022 - link
It's still a single slot via a waterblock like Asus's EKWB 3090. Air-cooling is reaching its limits without more expensive cooling material to justify that direction instead of water cooling (custom loop, not AIO).supercaliber - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
At some point we really have to face the facts that these cards are becoming an environmental irresponsibility. That level of heat generation (that I then need to air condition out) is probably the most frivolously damaging thing I do, ecologically speaking.ingwe - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
It really is starting to get crazy. Though people also have other hobbies that consume lots of energy--traveling and cars come to mind. But that doesn't make this any more reasonable.michael2k - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
I imagine moving to a smaller node will cut power draw and heat in half. They’re currently using Samsung 8nm, and TSMC N5 or N4P would both be notable improvements.Silver5urfer - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
That's not going to happen. The new PCIe5.0 power connector ensures that GPUs like 4090 and up will guzzle more than 450W to 600W. The only question is how fast it would be ? Because that sort of power requires justification.Rumors are 1.5-2X...which is too optimistic. Like this card will end up worse than Turing pricing, Sell $2000 MSRP card for top stack and make a 4090 with 2X performance for same cost in 6-7 months ? I doubt.
michael2k - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
I meant future 40x series cards will probably use a smaller node to reduce power as well as increase their transistor budget.Kangal - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
Well, the RTX-3000 series was mostly a "doubling" of the RTX-2000 cores. Basically the same architecture. Just like how the GTX-7 series was a rebadged GTX-6 series. Or how the GTX-10 series was an expansion of the GTX-9 cores (and GTX 750Ti).However, there was an architectural shift between the GTX 7-series and GTX 9-series. That was a huge improvement. And another shift between the GTX-10 series and the RTX-2000 series. That change I wasn't impressed by it.
I suspect Nvidia will be launching the RTX-4000 series on a new (or tweaked) architecture.
They will definitely be using slightly better node (eg Samsung 4nm, or TSMC 6nm) due to pressure from AMD. So it's possible the new dGPUs will have moderately "faster cores" or do more tasks but come with "less cores" (or roughly same amount). I have a hunch that Nvidia won't be able to raise prices much/at-all this time for gamers (unless crypto miners?), the power-draw will probably go up in every device category, but the performance increase will be substantial and likely justify the (already) high-prices and high-thermal properties.
michael2k - Thursday, March 31, 2022 - link
If the power draw goes up on a newer node, then fundamentally more work has to be done per category. More work translates to more performance and therefore higher prices.The exception is if competition forced prices down, such as Intel or AMD GPUs being similar in performance but slightly cheaper.
melgross - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
Not as much as you think. These companies need to rethink their designs entirely.meacupla - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
Well, actually... AMD already has part of this designIt's used in the PS5/Xbox
It's just that PS5/Xbox chips handicapped with cost constraints, and being older hardware.
Silver5urfer - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
Sell your PC and get a Console.Environmental Responsibility, why do the so friendly government allow the water bottles to be sold when they pump Flouride into the water taps. There are so many instances of these so called Environmental hazards which are done by corporations and have more significant effect than a consumer.
The card is junk because of high heat output, 30% higher power than 3090 and no 30% performance benefit. And the price. Will you say a 1600W PSU is against the environmental standards, absolutely insane nowadays how people think.
Khanan - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
They should simply put a maximum on the Wattage with a law, but this won’t happen, same as cars that never got any limitation on horse power. The only thing I saw in this regard was with prebuilt pcs in California that were limited by a power usage law, but that’s it and I’m not sure how effective it was.Gigaplex - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
The California law was largely regarding PSU efficiency and idle draw for some prebuilts. High power systems were exempt from the law.TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
And it was a great example of why you do NOT want the government getting involved, they managed to bungle it to the point that certian builds were not allowed to have SSDs.....because of idle power and whatever insane calculation was used to figure it out.Beuracracy wont fix this.
Udyr - Wednesday, March 30, 2022 - link
Vehicles got a limitation in the amount of fuel they could consume, not the horse power, and by limiting the consumption, manufacturers had to include turbo chargers to increase the HP without going out of fuel limitations. So now the car is equally or more powerful, more "efficient", but with an engine's life expectancy reduced by half due to the incredible amount of pressure it has to endure.TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
They didnt get "fuel limitations". They got emission limitations and were told to hit certian MPG requirements for entire fleets of vehicles using complicated math.Also the "engine life reduced by half" is total bullshit. Modern turbo engines in passenger cars routinely hit 200,000 miles with basic maintenance. In the 70s 100k was due for an engine rebuild. There was a reason odometers only had 5 digets.
Oh and semi trucks run under significantly higher pressure for several MILLION miles. Pressure =! reduced engine life.
cmdrdredd - Thursday, March 31, 2022 - link
Law to limit what you are allowed to use is the dumbest thing I read in a long time. If you want to use all the power then you can, your bill will just be higher. Pretty soon you'll ask the government to handicap the other guy's internet because he is getting more spewed than you.Spunjji - Friday, April 1, 2022 - link
Yeah man, freedumb means I can have my own nukyelur reactorTheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
Yeah for the planet we should all be limited to 75w GPUs! Its for the planet! Why would you ever want more?Oh yeah, dont forget to use your EV cars that use 1000 watts to travel a mile. You know, for the enviroment!
TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
NOOOOO WE HAVE TO TAKE AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO GPUS BECAUSE ENVIROMENT! YOU CANT JUST PAY MORE LIKE A NORMAL PERSON WE MUST NANNY YOU!!!!!!!sonicmerlin - Sunday, April 3, 2022 - link
I doubt they sell so many of these units as to make it an environmental issue. They’re extremely high priced.Zoolook - Sunday, April 10, 2022 - link
These are also the absolutely perfect dies. doubt they get more than a couple of pcs per wafer.flyingpants265 - Monday, April 4, 2022 - link
Ummm, I'm glad they didn't try to limit car horsepower at like 400hpTheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
They should limit the number of games you are allowed to play to 2 per month, 1 hour per day. Like China does!Also you may only have 1 sandwich per week. Its for the enviroment!
Oxford Guy - Thursday, March 31, 2022 - link
Gardeners and anyone trying to grow plants in even a semi-serious basis (such as to start a small nursery business) is not a fan of fluoride in water. It poisons plants. Some species are so sensitive that one watering will kill them — large plants.People could get their fluoride from toothpaste and fluoride floss. Putting it into water is unjustifiable.
supdawgwtfd - Sunday, April 3, 2022 - link
That's a myth...Fluoride in tap water doesn't hurt plants.
Seriously. Why do people just believe crap without checking facts.
TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
Smoking is perfectly healthy!**doctors and their factual statements and settled science, 1960.
domboy - Thursday, March 31, 2022 - link
Why do you need to sell your PC just because the highest end GPU uses 450W?!? Just get a more reasonable GPU....TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
Gaming is enviromentally irresponsible, ban gaming!This is the logical endpoint of your argument. And BTW, gaming on a 450w card isnt even a blip ont he radar in terms of energy use.
Silma - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
Let's save the planet with NVIDIA.Khanan - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
The table misses 6900 XT with XTXH chips, which are more expensive and also a ? Msrp wise.Ryan Smith - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
Note that XTXH is not a SKU, official or otherwise. It's just a bin of chips. If AMD were to create an official SKU out of it, such that it had a distinct product name/number, that would be one thing. But right now it's just a part used in factory overclocked cards, with no set standards for clockspeeds.Khanan - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
“NVIDIA themselves admit that “today's most graphically intense games don't take full advantage of the horsepower the RTX 3090 Ti offers. And that's fine.”That’s a bit ridiculous and a cheap flex from Nvidia, there are games like Cyberpunk 2077 and BF2042 that will easily eat through this card in 4K and ask for way more, and then, wasn’t the original 3090 marketed as a “8K card”? I’m still laughing about that. Yea this card won’t be a 8K card either.
blppt - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
This. CP2077 still won't run anywheres near close to acceptable at 4k with raytracing on unless you enable a DOWNSCALER (even an awesome one like DLSS). Dying Light 2 is another one that doesn't run smooth at native 4k with RT on unless you enable DLSS, so Nvidia is lying through its teeth.This 3090 Ti will give what, at best as 10-15% boost at 4k with RT on? The whole fundamental Ampere architecture isn't up to 4k performance with RT.
My call is to wait for the 4xxx series.
blppt - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
Correction---DLSS is an upscaler, not a downscaler.Silver5urfer - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
Both are unoptimized junk to be even qualified as AAA. Cyberpunk2077 is the worst of all. Both of these games offer absolutely nothing over RDR2 in terms of sheer complexity, scale and detail in any form or such. But end up overhyped to moon. Absolute trash.As for the rest, yes Ampere is not ready for 4K. It's clear cut, for me I took the bullet because it's the last GPU to have Windows 7 support. And I game at 1080P only.
blppt - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
I agree. RDR2 is still the cleanest, best looking immersive graphical game out there. CP2077 has distracting draw-in even on the best settings, and the art is nowheres near as detailed.Oxford Guy - Thursday, March 31, 2022 - link
Crysis established the fact that developers can get more press attention by releasing less-optimized games. That's why a game like the latest Far Cry can have poor-quality graphics and staggering VRAM demands.Silver5urfer - Thursday, March 31, 2022 - link
Ubisoft titles are garbage both in the game quality and Tech of the Engine. All their new games are pure trash. Original Watch Dogs used Disrupt engine and they downgraded it hardcore ruining a lot of the aesthetics but once modded that game looks insane, WD2 vs WD stock, the first one wins by a huge margin.Next is FarCry 6, did you see how the character models are ? Atrocious. Same for Odyssey and Valhalla, FC6 environments are somewhat better but FC5 looks way more beautiful. Also AC unity's AnvilNext2.0 destroys every single AC title in sheer NPC density and the overall texture quality, slap in an RTGI it will look like next gen title. The unfortunate LOD, NPC switching issues still exist, and why do you think ACUnity looks like that ? It's the only Ubisoft title which did not get downgrade treatment, which is why PS and XB need the 9th gen to get it to 4K60. While PC can get higher FPS with much more GFX fidelity.
Crysis 3 destroys so many games in pure GFX quality even in 2022, it's because of insane tessellation and post processing. They emphasized so much of the tech, which is why Gen 8 and Gen 9 consoles got the port after all these years finally and that too they cannot match PC fidelity. Also Crysis 3 runs amazing. If you mean Crysis OG, they bet on high speed ST 1Core performance, which didn't pan out, shame that they couldn't fix the Single Core utilization since then, also the game is superior to so many titles because of it's PC only centric approach.
blppt - Thursday, March 31, 2022 - link
"Original Watch Dogs used Disrupt engine and they downgraded it hardcore ruining a lot of the aesthetics but once modded that game looks insane"Glad I'm not the only one who thinks 1 looks far better than 2. And 2 runs like grade a poo too at the highest detail levels.
Oxford Guy - Thursday, March 31, 2022 - link
My point wasn’t about how well-optimized Crysis was. It was about how other developers learned from the massive press attention Crysis received due to its hardware demands.There are two ways to obtain a demanding (on hardware) game, ome that gets significant press attention because of that trait. The first is to release an optimized game that has more complexity in the visuals and the second is to release a game that is grossly inefficient.
Most of the time, journalists don’t differentiate between the two paths (particularly in performance testing of hardware articles), leading to the mistaken impression on the part of readers that a grossly unoptimized game is a better game — the assumption that hardware demands directly mean game sophistication. One site, for instance, recently stated that Far Cry 6 is ‘demanding’ in the context of a comparison review between an AMD card and a Nvidia at the same approximate price point — with nothing said about what kind of graphical quality gamers are getting for its VRAM demands. The article strongly implied that failing to have enough VRAM for the game is the fault of the card rather than the game’s developers.
In other words, it’s a marketing strategy that relies on cheating.
Silver5urfer - Friday, April 1, 2022 - link
Yeah they use the garbage games as benchmarks - Cybertrash2020, Farcry 6, AC Odyssey all are pure garbage. Most reviews do not care about old games which are my personal preference because of high quality in game, visuals and no political BS. Only few written reviewers put a lot of games.zamroni - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
The most powerful ampere is actually ga100 based a100.It's manufactured using tsmc 7nm, instead of worse samsung 8nm of 3090 or lower.
Notmyusualid - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
A friend was asking me about the noise out of my 3090, and to be honest, I don't hear it much in gaming, you have to run an application that maxes out the resources of this thing to hear it. And that is in an open Core P5 case.I do however notice that it clocks down after very little use, and this I cannot abide.
I ordered the EK wrap-around water block, and will install it this weekend. 305 GBP for a GPU waterblock, I must be an idiot. But then i do not see any way to run this card for long durations without such a solution. Air-only seem not to be up to the job.
m00bee - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
Nvidia should have built it sea watercooler and nuclear reactor on next gen cardOxford Guy - Wednesday, March 30, 2022 - link
I will gladly sacrifice what's left of my hearing to ensure the success of the obsolete ATX form factor.TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
Funny, AMD 6900xt custom cards run at 34-35 dba in that same "obsolete" form factor, almost liek form factor has nothing to do with card design. Funny how that works.....Oxford Guy - Sunday, May 1, 2022 - link
Quiet they are not.So much focus is placed on quiet efficient CPU cooling and GPUs are given short shrift.
cmdrdredd - Thursday, March 31, 2022 - link
Retail prices will be well above $2k probably. GPUs are way overpriced.Spunjji - Friday, April 1, 2022 - link
100W and $500 more for <10% performance increase. Amazeballs.Khanan - Sunday, April 3, 2022 - link
I have to say this is the worst graphics card I ever saw. 100W extra on top of a GPU that wasn’t efficient to begin with for just 3% more performance is just terrible and ecologically bad. In a world that already battles with climate change this is just a sign that Nvidia has to be limited by laws otherwise they will just do whatever they want, whether it’s good or bad. The same is true for AMD of course, I don’t want to see it from them either. They should stay at about 300W max for consumer products, with custom models able to go higher.Oxford Guy - Monday, April 4, 2022 - link
At least Nvidia isn’t selling it restricted to PCI-e 4x.The 6700 XT is the biggest turkey. It’s also being sold on the promise of its ray tracing performance.
At least Nvidia’s product is a known quantity, not full of ridiculous gotchas. That said, this product shows how PC enthusiasts live in a strange warped fantasyland where CPUs need things like 360mm AIOs — without most batting an eye — and GPUs not only are expected to make due to small fans and cooler space allocation — the heat gets ejected right into the case.
The industry is broken. Where are the logical people?
TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
There's nothing wrong with exhaling into the case, if you have a case with side fans. The industry doesnt make them because gamers want to consoom their PC through a cheap plexiglass panel.the 6700xt isnt a gimped turkey, you are thinking about the 6500xt.
the "logical" people are busy whining on the internet about how the 3090ti uses another 100 watts while cranking up the AC to cool them off while they argue on reddit about how great they can virtue signal.
Oxford Guy - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
You have selectively ignored the main point I made.As for the claim about exhausting waste heat into a case, it is simply inefficient design. That means it’s inferior design.
Try to locate the main point in my post and see if you can rebut it.
Oxford Guy - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
As for the so-called 6500 XT, yes. AMD’s deceptive naming is intentionally confusing and thus difficult to keep track of. That is another aspect of the 6500 XT that makes it a turkey.Thunder 57 - Wednesday, April 6, 2022 - link
Incremental numbers are too hard! Despite it being the same thing NVIDIA does.Oxford Guy - Thursday, April 7, 2022 - link
Nvidia using deceptive numbering is the tu quoque fallacy. And, show me that Nvidia card that's stuck at PCI-e 4x — something no enthusiast would expect from a card called 6500 XT.I get that arguing is fun but at least have something worth bothering a reader with.
When Apple released a cut-down Mac with significant shortcomings (like a 32-bit CPU on a 16-bit bus) it once had the decency to label it that way. The company's first machine like that in the Mac line was called the LC, for low cost. It sold extremely well, in terms of Mac sales. Apple didn't have to lie to customers to sell that product. The fact that it was designed to be a low-cost product helped it sell, in fact. The name was a marketing tactic and an honest one.
AMD could have done the same thing with its leftover laptop chips instead of trying to fool people with the name and with the also ludicrous ray tracing ad material on the box.
In addition, AMD cut off support for Fiji buyers after only 4 years for some of them. That's inexcusable. People should demand more from AMD, especially after what it did to the enthusiast community with the FX 9000 series.
TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
Using more electricity is great for the enviroment, or have you not been paying attention to enviromentalists and their push for electric cards?Also, you playing game sis a waste of energy, so is you enjoying a meal out, turning on a fan, or using a refridgerator. Do you do these things while complaining about the power use of a halo card?
Oxford Guy - Tuesday, April 5, 2022 - link
The WHO’s report just released states that 99% of people on planet Earth breathe polluted air. Sitting in a traffic jam with fossil fuel vehicles is obviously part of that.Electricity can be generated without air pollution.
Inhaled bad air is the biggest health problem humans currently face.
Try to understand the larger picture before making specious claims.
catavalon21 - Sunday, April 17, 2022 - link
"Electricity can be generated without air pollution"Not enough. Besides considering environmental impacts of having enough elements from the Earth to replace every car with an electric, or where "clean" electricity actually comes from (anywhere from solar to wind to burning coal or oil itself), I'm skeptical electrical grids in Mexico City, Istanbul, New Dehli, Mumbai, Moscow, would support all-electrics in place of every bronto burner, or that the masses can afford them. There's also the issue of which vehicles are the offenders. 99% of vehicles, the newest 99%, don't pollute nearly as much as the oldest 1%. We've seen the belchers rolling down the highway. One of those generates more pollution than hundreds of clean new oil burners. Folks who can't afford one of the newest 99% can't afford an electric vehicle.
Oxford Guy - Sunday, May 1, 2022 - link
'Not enough.'I don't agree. However, if population and consumption aren't both put under control, it won't matter.
prophet001 - Friday, April 8, 2022 - link
Founders 3080 still sold out on Bestbuy. What's it been? A year?Oxford Guy - Saturday, April 9, 2022 - link
I vaguely recall reading that Nvidia discontinued that one in order to release a nearly-identical part with a higher MSRP.catavalon21 - Sunday, April 17, 2022 - link
I haven't seen anything Nvidia-branded at BB since the original run on inventory.vefivivi - Tuesday, May 17, 2022 - link
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