This looks really good on paper, minus the screen. 300~400 nits is unusable to barely usable in daylight. With a claim of 28hrs battery life, I would want to take that everywhere I go, and then being disappointed at the brightness.
Presumably, the USB-C ports do PD, but does it also do alt mode DP? on both ports?
Honestly, the few times I actually work in active daylight, I tend to just turn the backlight off completely and work with transmitted light. Sure, it doesn't do color reproduction any favors, but that doesn't matter a whole lot for what I do anyway, and it does do wonders for battery life.
400 nits is the minimum in SDR for indoors near-window, and 600 nits is the minimum for outdoors. However ideally you want over 800 nits to see anything under direct sunlight.
Use of a laptop in direct sunlight is a really specialist purpose. 300-400nits is a good range, catering to indoors use (100-150nits https://www.eizoglobal.com/library/basics/10_ways_... ) and you can up the brightness 2-3x for more difficult conditions.
@CSMR, I argue this point of 'specialist purpose'. I think maybe because people have just learned that they can't so they don't. I'm a so-called 'mobile entrepreneur' and I can and do work anywhere. Since I picked up my MBP 16 and have that 1000-1600 nits brightness, it's opened up tons of 'normal' places to work that I really never comfortable could before. I used to run a panasonic toughbook JUST for the bright screen, but otherwise I hated it. The MBP 16 as an 'ultrabook' if we were talking PC with >=1000 and that fantastic battery just means freedom.
I'm OS agnostic really, I'm rockin' the MBP16 specifically for the screen and battery life (and no lap heat, no fan) and could easily use something like the Lenovo but it would be really really hard to give up the bright screen even if every other box is checked.
agreed, the screen sucks. A friend of mine picked one up. I really wish PC makers would figure this out, there are so few bright PC laptop screens vs my MBP that is a full 1000 nits and is clear and clean in broad daylight. This is maybe THE reason I wouldn't pick one of these up. My MBA and MBP (M1, M1Pro) are not just fast, but faster than I really need so I could afford a small loss in general performance but I can't live with a dim screen :/
I would also point out the (add-on) integrated 5G as being a big reason as well. That being said - Lenovo/Qualcomm are being really bold with those prices. At $1,099 starting, or $100 above the M1 MacBook Air, nearly every aspect is the same or worse. I feel like the base config 8GB/256GB SSD/No 5G model should be more like $799...
Wireless tethering puts a massive drain on the phone’s battery (less of an issue than with Android, but still an issue), is significantly slower due to the wireless link, and means I’m stuck using the same service my phone uses - work pays for the SIM that’s in my laptop and work Android phone, not my personal iPhone
You can plug your phone into the laptop, and take advantage of its battery.
I guess, if you're planning on spending lots of time using 5G, it makes sense for the laptop to have it built-in. I doubt that will be true for many, however.
I would also add that this 8cx gen 3 SoC also has faster AI hardware over Apple's M1. The AI hardware on this 8cx gen 3 is rated at 29 TOPS. The M1 AI hardware is rated at 15 TOPS.
Sure, but do we see this AI hardware being put to work well? Apple is just now adding 'real' use cases with MacOS 16. I'm really not seeing anything useful in the PC landscape right now.
let's see until it arrives. no mater how good on synthetic benchmark M1 chip are, what actually matters are real world performance, and also battery life since it's aimed for laptop. both are good if you're just watching videos, browsing the internet, using word editing software (also other MS Office products like Excel, OneNote, Outlook, and PowerPoint), or web games.
yes, the synthetic numbers shows that M1 chip obliterates Qualcomm chip. but unless you're editing videos or photos using Adobe or any serious professional app, you won't get much out of it either.
Not that Google or Microsoft are much better as alternatives. Both are horrible companies though I suppose Google is probably the most routinely disgusting of the three in terms of farming users for data due to their business model.
yeah yeah yeah, I don't discount this argument but a Window laptop is just as bad IMO.
Like Wereweeb says below, nice to have a Linux option and if you don't have specific software needs.... well it'd be really awesome to have a native Linux on one of these.
The MBP16 M1 Pro/Ultra machines are absolutely exquisite, I expect that when full M1/M2 support is in the Linux Kernel this will become possible THEN premier Linux laptop. I've put hands on the X13s and it's pretty nice as well except for the mediocre screen.
because most laptop cameras are usb2.0 which limits the sensor choice and quality while Qualcomm has MIPI-CSI camera input most likely which would allow using standard smartphone camera sensors. the only way to get high quality camera into a laptop is csi to USB3 bridge, and I've personally have never seen a laptop with usb3.0 webcam built in
Most manufacturers quote their numbers based on a mixture of sleep/work time. Maybe 70/30 if I'd guess. The only anomaly I can recall rn is actually Apple which they quote continuous video playback time and such.
No. ~10 hrs is much more likely, assuming 5W power draw for very light use (50Wh / 5W). "28 hrs" quote from Lenovo likely includes sleep (modern standby) times as well as regular usage.
Lower quality hardware - lack of PCIe Gen 4 SSD, high-resolution display, and high-wattage speakers - are also big factors that makes this laptop "seemingly" more efficient. In other words, it is NOT the Qualcomm chip alone that contributes to the 10hr battery life.
My cheapo ThinkPad E495 with a Ryzen 3500U running Linux without any kind of driver power tuning is capable of getting to just under 2 W when idle and the internal display off, so I'd fully expect this to do significantly better than that under those conditions, not just "may". (Otherwise, I'd be extremely disappointed.)
What that means for more active scenarios is a good question, but given that the X13s is significantly more expensive, I'd expect it to use a more power-efficient backlight, and I'd also expect it to be built more with power efficiency in mind in general. During light use, my E495 uses anywhere between 5-10 W. I'd agree that 1.77 W sounds a bit optimistic during light use, but I should hope that it isn't significantly worse. If there isn't at least a couple of factors between a mid-range Qualcomm laptop and an absolutely entry-level laptop on an early Ryzen platform, there'd arguably be no point whatsoever to Qualcomm chips.
Screen off battery life doesn't matter to be because, if I'm plugged into a display, I can probably just plug into a wall outlet.
One thing about newer Ryzen laptops is that they can feel very responsive even when locked to super low CPU/GPU clocks, and they do indeed sip power in that scenario.
The reason screen-off battery life matters is because it means you can leave your laptop unused without having to put it into hard stand-by mode where the operating system and running processes are halted, no longer staying connected to network services.
Anyone who says such things has never owned a ThinkPad, the trackpoint is the main reason to buy a ThinkPad for many and easily disabled for the remainder
I have clients that won't get a laptop without a touchpoint. HP abandoned them so now Lenovo is the only game in town, effectively taking the admittedly niche business HP and Dell used to cater.
Gotta back these other guys, people that like the touchpoint LOVE it and wont use anything else. This has been a major selling point for Lenovo the last few years with my customers. They used to run a lot of HPs but when HP ditched it, Lenovo got the business.
I'd be interested if it were cheaper, supported Linux, and had a HDMI jack. For now, I'll be hanging onto my x86 Thinkpad 13".
Oh, and I have no use for 5G connectivity, which I guess is one of its main selling points. Honestly, if they just had proper phone-tethering support, it wouldn't need any G.
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meacupla - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Your graph has a typo. It's listed as WUXGA (16:10), but you then have it listed as 1920x1080, when it should be 1920x1200James5mith - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
yeah, it's either 16:9 1920x1080, or 16:10 or 1920x1200.yetanotherhuman - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
There's a possibility it has non-square pixels. Or -almost infinitely more likely- the spec sheet is just wrong.meacupla - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
This looks really good on paper, minus the screen. 300~400 nits is unusable to barely usable in daylight.With a claim of 28hrs battery life, I would want to take that everywhere I go, and then being disappointed at the brightness.
Presumably, the USB-C ports do PD, but does it also do alt mode DP? on both ports?
skavi - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Honestly, even 500 nits is barely usable in daylight.Dolda2000 - Friday, March 4, 2022 - link
Honestly, the few times I actually work in active daylight, I tend to just turn the backlight off completely and work with transmitted light. Sure, it doesn't do color reproduction any favors, but that doesn't matter a whole lot for what I do anyway, and it does do wonders for battery life.damianrobertjones - Monday, April 4, 2022 - link
Honestly, something, something honest and true.Prestissimo - Thursday, March 3, 2022 - link
400 nits is the minimum in SDR for indoors near-window, and 600 nits is the minimum for outdoors. However ideally you want over 800 nits to see anything under direct sunlight.CSMR - Thursday, March 24, 2022 - link
Use of a laptop in direct sunlight is a really specialist purpose. 300-400nits is a good range, catering to indoors use (100-150nits https://www.eizoglobal.com/library/basics/10_ways_... ) and you can up the brightness 2-3x for more difficult conditions.syadnom - Sunday, June 12, 2022 - link
@CSMR, I argue this point of 'specialist purpose'. I think maybe because people have just learned that they can't so they don't. I'm a so-called 'mobile entrepreneur' and I can and do work anywhere. Since I picked up my MBP 16 and have that 1000-1600 nits brightness, it's opened up tons of 'normal' places to work that I really never comfortable could before. I used to run a panasonic toughbook JUST for the bright screen, but otherwise I hated it. The MBP 16 as an 'ultrabook' if we were talking PC with >=1000 and that fantastic battery just means freedom.I'm OS agnostic really, I'm rockin' the MBP16 specifically for the screen and battery life (and no lap heat, no fan) and could easily use something like the Lenovo but it would be really really hard to give up the bright screen even if every other box is checked.
syadnom - Sunday, June 12, 2022 - link
agreed, the screen sucks. A friend of mine picked one up. I really wish PC makers would figure this out, there are so few bright PC laptop screens vs my MBP that is a full 1000 nits and is clear and clean in broad daylight. This is maybe THE reason I wouldn't pick one of these up. My MBA and MBP (M1, M1Pro) are not just fast, but faster than I really need so I could afford a small loss in general performance but I can't live with a dim screen :/headeffects - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
You just really have to hate Apple to not just get an M1 MacBook Air.meacupla - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
does M1 MBA come in a configuration with 1TB SSD, 32GB RAM and touch screen?NextGen_Gamer - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
I would also point out the (add-on) integrated 5G as being a big reason as well. That being said - Lenovo/Qualcomm are being really bold with those prices. At $1,099 starting, or $100 above the M1 MacBook Air, nearly every aspect is the same or worse. I feel like the base config 8GB/256GB SSD/No 5G model should be more like $799...skavi - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Apple's iPhone to Mac tethering is as seamless as it gets. If you have an iPhone, I really do not understand why you'd want integrated 5G in your Mac.neggles - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
Wireless tethering puts a massive drain on the phone’s battery (less of an issue than with Android, but still an issue), is significantly slower due to the wireless link, and means I’m stuck using the same service my phone uses - work pays for the SIM that’s in my laptop and work Android phone, not my personal iPhonemode_13h - Monday, March 28, 2022 - link
You can plug your phone into the laptop, and take advantage of its battery.I guess, if you're planning on spending lots of time using 5G, it makes sense for the laptop to have it built-in. I doubt that will be true for many, however.
htcfan - Friday, April 15, 2022 - link
I would also add that this 8cx gen 3 SoC also has faster AI hardware over Apple's M1. The AI hardware on this 8cx gen 3 is rated at 29 TOPS. The M1 AI hardware is rated at 15 TOPS.syadnom - Sunday, June 12, 2022 - link
Sure, but do we see this AI hardware being put to work well? Apple is just now adding 'real' use cases with MacOS 16. I'm really not seeing anything useful in the PC landscape right now.headeffects - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
1TB yes, even 2TB. 32GB no. Touch screen, of course not, thankfully. None of those are worth the performance hit from that mediocre Qualcomm chip.meacupla - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
and how much does this configuration of M1 MBA cost? $1600? $2000?neggles - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
probably about the same as this configuration of X13s…Fulljack - Thursday, March 3, 2022 - link
let's see until it arrives. no mater how good on synthetic benchmark M1 chip are, what actually matters are real world performance, and also battery life since it's aimed for laptop. both are good if you're just watching videos, browsing the internet, using word editing software (also other MS Office products like Excel, OneNote, Outlook, and PowerPoint), or web games.yes, the synthetic numbers shows that M1 chip obliterates Qualcomm chip. but unless you're editing videos or photos using Adobe or any serious professional app, you won't get much out of it either.
damianrobertjones - Friday, March 18, 2022 - link
Capitals at the start of sentences are fun. Why be lazy?abufrejoval - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Not everyone wants to indenture to iSlavery, just because they need to run a low-power laptop.PeachNCream - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Not that Google or Microsoft are much better as alternatives. Both are horrible companies though I suppose Google is probably the most routinely disgusting of the three in terms of farming users for data due to their business model.Wereweeb - Friday, March 4, 2022 - link
Thank God for Linux :)syadnom - Sunday, June 12, 2022 - link
yeah yeah yeah, I don't discount this argument but a Window laptop is just as bad IMO.Like Wereweeb says below, nice to have a Linux option and if you don't have specific software needs.... well it'd be really awesome to have a native Linux on one of these.
The MBP16 M1 Pro/Ultra machines are absolutely exquisite, I expect that when full M1/M2 support is in the Linux Kernel this will become possible THEN premier Linux laptop. I've put hands on the X13s and it's pretty nice as well except for the mediocre screen.
Wereweeb - Friday, March 4, 2022 - link
No, I just like actually owning my hardware and choosing my software. You know, basic freedoms?The hate for Apple comes from the fact that other brands are using them as an excuse to make shittier products with less features.
Dolda2000 - Friday, March 4, 2022 - link
Or maybe one just wants to use any other operating system than MacOS.htcfan - Friday, April 15, 2022 - link
This 8cx gen 3 SoC embedded AI hardware is rated at 29 TOPS. Apple's M1 AI hardware is rated at 15 TOPS.syadnom - Sunday, June 12, 2022 - link
plenty of software that is just a real challenge to use on Mac. Crossover or Parallels are options but there's always a compromise with them.ikjadoon - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Great to see 5MP cameras included as standard. I wonder why this isn't common on their other laptops.timecop1818 - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
because most laptop cameras are usb2.0 which limits the sensor choice and quality while Qualcomm has MIPI-CSI camera input most likely which would allow using standard smartphone camera sensors. the only way to get high quality camera into a laptop is csi to USB3 bridge, and I've personally have never seen a laptop with usb3.0 webcam built insyadnom - Sunday, June 12, 2022 - link
"cameras are usb2.0"Nah, USB2.0 can do 480Mbps, there is no issue running a 4k+ 60fps USB2 camera, they are just being cheap.
brucethemoose - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
49.5-Wh / 28 hours is 1.77 Watts.... You *may* get that in a deep idle, with the internal display off. There's no way you get even half that actually using the thing.
erinadreno - Thursday, March 3, 2022 - link
Most manufacturers quote their numbers based on a mixture of sleep/work time. Maybe 70/30 if I'd guess. The only anomaly I can recall rn is actually Apple which they quote continuous video playback time and such.Prestissimo - Thursday, March 3, 2022 - link
No. ~10 hrs is much more likely, assuming 5W power draw for very light use (50Wh / 5W). "28 hrs" quote from Lenovo likely includes sleep (modern standby) times as well as regular usage.Lower quality hardware - lack of PCIe Gen 4 SSD, high-resolution display, and high-wattage speakers - are also big factors that makes this laptop "seemingly" more efficient. In other words, it is NOT the Qualcomm chip alone that contributes to the 10hr battery life.
Dolda2000 - Friday, March 4, 2022 - link
My cheapo ThinkPad E495 with a Ryzen 3500U running Linux without any kind of driver power tuning is capable of getting to just under 2 W when idle and the internal display off, so I'd fully expect this to do significantly better than that under those conditions, not just "may". (Otherwise, I'd be extremely disappointed.)What that means for more active scenarios is a good question, but given that the X13s is significantly more expensive, I'd expect it to use a more power-efficient backlight, and I'd also expect it to be built more with power efficiency in mind in general. During light use, my E495 uses anywhere between 5-10 W. I'd agree that 1.77 W sounds a bit optimistic during light use, but I should hope that it isn't significantly worse. If there isn't at least a couple of factors between a mid-range Qualcomm laptop and an absolutely entry-level laptop on an early Ryzen platform, there'd arguably be no point whatsoever to Qualcomm chips.
Prestissimo - Saturday, March 5, 2022 - link
Even Macbook Air uses 4W during light use. If anything a 8cx3 laptop is going to be higher.brucethemoose - Thursday, March 24, 2022 - link
Screen off battery life doesn't matter to be because, if I'm plugged into a display, I can probably just plug into a wall outlet.One thing about newer Ryzen laptops is that they can feel very responsive even when locked to super low CPU/GPU clocks, and they do indeed sip power in that scenario.
Dolda2000 - Saturday, April 2, 2022 - link
The reason screen-off battery life matters is because it means you can leave your laptop unused without having to put it into hard stand-by mode where the operating system and running processes are halted, no longer staying connected to network services.LordConrad - Monday, March 7, 2022 - link
When is Lenovo going to get rid of that stupid and seriously outdated touchpoint, or whatever the heck they call it?BushLin - Tuesday, March 8, 2022 - link
Anyone who says such things has never owned a ThinkPad, the trackpoint is the main reason to buy a ThinkPad for many and easily disabled for the remainderSamus - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
I have clients that won't get a laptop without a touchpoint. HP abandoned them so now Lenovo is the only game in town, effectively taking the admittedly niche business HP and Dell used to cater.syadnom - Sunday, June 12, 2022 - link
Gotta back these other guys, people that like the touchpoint LOVE it and wont use anything else. This has been a major selling point for Lenovo the last few years with my customers. They used to run a lot of HPs but when HP ditched it, Lenovo got the business.webdoctors - Tuesday, March 8, 2022 - link
Can it run Crysis?Samus - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
A 2010 Atom with an nVidia ION chipset runs Crysis. So yes, it will. Anything in the last decade will. Even on integrated graphics.damianrobertjones - Friday, March 18, 2022 - link
Excellent battery life. Every review can now stop mentioning the M1 macs.mode_13h - Monday, March 28, 2022 - link
I'd be interested if it were cheaper, supported Linux, and had a HDMI jack. For now, I'll be hanging onto my x86 Thinkpad 13".Oh, and I have no use for 5G connectivity, which I guess is one of its main selling points. Honestly, if they just had proper phone-tethering support, it wouldn't need any G.
albertha588 - Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - link
thanksMike Potanin - Monday, June 6, 2022 - link
Where is Ethernet port?