Great article, as usual. It seems clear that Intel's AL still has the performance advantage, however, in the Conclusion page, the performance comparison is reference to the nominal consumption (35W, 45W, 65W), while we know that Intel's part can reach twice as much power, in practice, making an apples-to-apples comparison quite difficult, especially in light of Intel's better scaling with more Power.
Is there a way to check the exact performance per core under the same exact consumption (or scaled)? I am especially interested as a user of the 1165G, which is an absolute battery eater (and/or heater): it seems that AL is a huge improvement, but if it also draws 100W (instead of 45W) to beat Ryzen by a 10%, then it's not worth it. In my opinion.
Yes, the overall picture that has built up is of Intel's Alder Lake winning out at higher power levels (40W+) while AMD coming out ahead below that.
This is good, because it means that we have great options for people who want the best possible performance in a mobile form-factor and for people who want a more even balance of performance and power usage. It's a nicer situation to be in than when Intel complete owned the mobile segment, followed by the years of stagnation at 14nm.
Agree on all points. Intel's Tiger Lake is an absolute disaster, and it is actually surprising that Intel only managed to lose 50% market share with such a lousy product compared to Ryzen. And equally surprising is the insane jump in performance and perf/watt achieved with AL. Definitely good for the consumers.
That seems like an overstatement. It just didn't improve enough against Ryzen, particularly in light of the 5000-series' gains. However, especially in light of Ice Lake's disappointments, Tiger Lake didn't seem so bad.
Tiger Lake was a stroke of luck for Intel, their worst product ever during a massive silicon shortage. They spent the year selling quad cores because AMD was selling everything they could make, not because Tiger Lake was any good.
The irony here is AMD mobile CPU's are widespread in lots of desktops and AIO's, even high end units. You would rarely, if ever, see Intel U-series parts in desktops\AIO's outside of USFF's or low-end AIO's with Celeron\Pentiums.
This is happening partially because AMD doesn't have a wide product stack like Intel. And they don't need too. The AMD U-series parts are absolute performance monsters and have been for the last 3 generations.
I own both, a Ryzen 5800U in a notebook and an i7-1165G7 as a NUC.
They are really quite comparable, both in iGPU performance, in scalar CPU power and even in multi-threaded CPU power.
At 15 Watts the 8 Ryzen cores operate below the CMOS knee, which means they have to clock so low they can't really gain much against 4 Tiger Lake cores clocking above it. Synthetic benchmarks may prove a lead that's next to impossible to realize or really relevant in day-to-day work. For the heavy lifting, I use a 5950X, which isn't that much faster on scalar loads, but runs almost as many rings around the 5800U as the i7-1165G7: the extra Watts make more of a difference than the cores alone.
My impression is that the Ryzen needs the higher power envelope, 35 or even 65 Watts, and of course a matching workload to put those extra cores to work. AMD's primary aim for their APUs was to cover as many use cases as possible from a single part and they do amazingly well. If they could afford to do a native 4 core variant as well, I'm pretty sure that would outsell the 8 core.
In fact the SteamDeck SoC would probably make a better notebook part for many (not everyone).
And there is nothing wrong with Tiger Lake, except that perhaps today there are better SoCs around: it was and remains a welcome improvement over the previous generations from Intel.
Buy it used and/or cheaper than these AL parts and you should have little to complain about... unless complaining is what you really enjoy.
and the apple fanboys just keep talking about the m1 like its the best things since sliced bread, whats your point ? bottom line is this, IF you are already using the over priced apple eco system, then the m1 makes sense, if not, then there is no point to it. i only know 3 people that have either an ipad, or a mac based comp, the rest wont touch apple cause of the price, too expensive for what they would need it for, windows based products, suit their needs just fine.
For sure Apple is way too expensive for what you get. Working in industry I hate it when I have to give support to someone using a Mac because the VPN we send them doesn't work. Of the hundreds of VPNs I have sent to people, less then 10 have responded to me saying they need the one for Mac. Mac just doesn't play as nicely with the things we use in a lot of IT.
Oh, the VPN doesn’t work? I have an M1 MacBook Air and I use WireGuard for my VPN. It works perfect!
Oh 🤔, do you mean “Legacy” VPNs, that are based on IPSEC or OpenVPN? You know, the one’s where Wikipedia says, “… are often complex to set up, disconnect easily (in the absence of further configuration), take substantial time to negotiate reconnections, may use outdated ciphers, and have relatively massive code bases of over 400,000 and 600,000 lines of code, respectively, which hinders debugging.“
That one? 👆😱
Hey bro, some of us Mac users are “Pros” too. Maybe you should stop using legacy VPN software and switch to something better? Instead of blaming Macs! 🤦♂️
Yep, it’s legacy. It needs to be upgraded. I can help, if you want. 😬
I don’t know why you would continue to use OpenVPN or IPSec. I first used that tech like 14 yrs ago. Move on! 🤓
Go research the benefits of using WireGuard. It’s a waaaay better solution. Dropped connections on IPSec or Open VPN take FOREVER to reconnect. You don’t need licenses, you can support unlimited users. Your limitation is the hardware you choose to host your WireGuard Server endpoint. WireGuard supports Windows and Android endpoint client devices. Oh yeah, and Mac OS too. 🥳
Thanks, I only saw the first 10-15 episodes of Super in 2018, where Beerus came to the cruiseship, and still hope to watch the rest of it, eventually. It was nostalgic, I remember, seeing these dear characters after so long.
Eh, I only watched the original series. The few things after it that I had seen lacked the same charm. And among that series, the first season was one of the best. The censors had clearly cracked down on it, after that.
What I thought worked so well about the original DB was Goku's innocence, ignorance, indomitable spirit, and purity of heart. That made it so much more entertaining and gratifying to see him overcome all the obstacles and enemies he encountered. And it's almost as if not knowing his own limitations made him unrestrained by them.
That's an exact description of Goku's character and is likely the secret of his greatness and why he often prevailed over his enemies. I would add that forgiveness was another trait of his, and something they could never understand. It's almost paradoxical, at least in DBZ, how he was the comic clumsy figure, and yet when it came to saving the world, only he could do it. Without knowing it, people are emulating, I feel, more of Vegeta's cynical character today. What the world needs is more of Goku.
I haven't watched much since the mid 2000's, but I thought Luffy, in One Piece, had a similar personality. However, he seemed to have a mercurial wisdom and canniness, just beneath the surface. In that regard, he seemed to have echos of Irresponsible Captain Taylor.
I don't remember too much of Naruto, though I had started watching it from the beginning. Like Goku, he also had an innocence and indomitably, but there was obviously a darkness about him and inside of him.
I wouldn't have patience for any of that, now. Even at the time, it seemed rather excessively drawn out.
BTW, did you see the live action DB movie? I think it was made around 2008? More of a Hollywood movie; not Japanese. I'm apparently among the small minority who actually liked it. It helps to remember that Dragon Ball itself is loosely based on the ancient tale of Saiyuki and just don't expect a direct translation from the TV series or manga. It's very much a reinterpretation, but I enjoyed it.
Luffy is very like Goku, regarding his innocence, simplicity, and goodness, but yes, he had another element which is hard to pin down. Perhaps a certain stoic quality that clicked on at times, and made him something fearful to all those who practised evil. (It's even evident when they left the Merry; Goku would never have operated like that, and for my part, I agree with Usopp.) I really loved One Piece. It could often be tedious and silly, but once the story knocked into gear, it was usually astonishing, and gave you the feeling of being on an adventure with noble companions. Namaka. My favourite arcs were Arlong/Nami, Arabasta, and Water 7. In 2018, I got stuck at Thriller Bark and never went on.
What caused me to stop was seeing Evangelion for the first time that year. It left me a sadder, more sober person for ever; and I'll add a word of warning to others, Eva is terribly depressing and no joke. That and Steins;Gate are my favourite anime. I've heard great things about Naruto but to this day have not seen a single episode. Rurouni Kenshin was nice.
My brother really enjoyed the live-action Dragon Ball, but though I've seen only bits and pieces, I always debate with him that it's not the real DB! He contends that it's pretty good. Well, perhaps I need to sit down and actually watch it and give it a proper appraisal.
Wow, all those One Piece names are definitely a flashback. I hung out with some Kenshin fans, so I saw the entire original series.
Evangelion was pretty mind-blowing for me, when the original series first aired. A bit confusing, especially with the movies, the revisionist ending, and whatnot.
More recently, I went to a marathon showing of the original series, back when they started releasing the new version. I watched the first 2-3 installments of the new version and just quit. It got too absurd for me. I never liked the direction Gainax took with FLCL, but I guess it was inevitable the new Eva would go there (and lose me). I did really like Kare Kano and Chobits (lol, they seemed to have HDDs inside!).
I got a lot from Evangelion, but I'm pretty much over it. Not unlike how I parted ways with the Star Wars franchise, more than a decade ago. I just don't need it. I don't seem to have trouble finding enough to watch. For instance, a movie I recently enjoyed was Arrival.
Even the news is like a high-tension drama, for at least the past half decade. I can really feel like I'm living through history. It gives me a new perspective on much of the past century and what it was probably like, at the time.
Some other old anime that's fun to re-watch are the original Patlabor OAV series and movies, Akira, and the Ghost in the Shell series and movies. And every time I hear about space junk in the news, my mind goes back to Planetes.
Evangelion is indeed out of this world. It's really the sadness of the characters that touched me, though of course the relentless, minimal action was impressive when it came. Can anyone ever forget Eva-01 breaking out of the shadow space in episode 16, or the time, nearing the end, when it reactivates though its power is gone? The new movies' weakness is that they tried to spin everything out to excessive detail, whereas the series' strength was minimalism. The characterisation, too, was subtly altered. Anyhow, last year I watched the final film, Thrice upon a Time, and can honestly say they did a good job and ended Eva on a surprisingly cheerful note, with a good message. I secretly hope for a return someday.
I haven't seen most of the anime you mentioned, except for Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Suffice to say, Akira leaves the viewer speechless.
Same here. Lost my interest in Star Wars and don't care to see it again. Arrival was great, with a good performance by Amy Adams. And talking of Villeneuve movies, the new Dune was a big disappointment to me.
The Patlabor OAVs and movies are good for an 80's/90's nostalgia hit, IMO. It's that sort of old timey mecha anime that attracted many of us to the anime multiverse, in the first place. When I watched the OAVs on blu ray, the restoration was fantastic. Very crisp HD.
> the new Dune was a big disappointment to me.
Yeah, I read the trilogy before watching it. I'm so glad I did, because I knew exactly what was going on. Otherwise, I might've been lost.
Yeah, they tried too hard to follow the narrative of the book. I think the only way to do it, and still end up with a good movie, is to focus on a particular story arc. If they'd nailed it, that would've set the stage for more to follow.
I'd imagine they shot so much footage that it could conceivably be re-edited. I know they didn't shoot beyond the movie's ending, because I saw an interview with Zendaya, where she said she was only on location for the desert scenes for a couple days.
I mean the original Patlabor OAVs. There are about 7 of them, I think. Near movie-quality animation, for the time.
BTW, some aspects of the Ghost in the Shell franchise definitely make more sense, as we move towards the future it predicted.
Oh, and Planetes is a nice series about a crew working to collect orbital debris. It aired about 2 decades ago, but I think it was based on manga that was older, still. Some aspects of it were a bit anachronistic even for the time, but other aspects about space physics and orbital living clearly received a lot of thought and attention. The story arc is a lot more interesting than it sounds, with lots of commentary about life, love, the privatization of space, corporate politics, geopolitics, personal ambition, and the ultimate path and personal costs of space exploration. If you don't mind a bit of slapstick and are willing to look past some of the more anachronistic aspects, it's worth a watch.
I haven't read the books but hope to do so before going into the coffin. Well, my view is that the excessive realism somehow harms the movie. If you go back to Lynch's 1984 version, despite the outlandish visuals, it is pretty alien, as Dune should be; and from a storytelling point of view, does that pretty well, going forward rapidly. Also, the princess's summary in the beginning got the viewer up to speed with this strange universe.
The new movie took "show, don't tell" a bit too far, and the story didn't feel cohesive or unified, especially towards the end. It was tedious. The visions seemed forced and overdone. And for an epic, the cinematography was poor in my opinion. A key problem, I feel, is that it didn't bring out the true spirit of the desert. Coupled to this issue is Zimmer's music, in my view, missing the mark. It was too loud and vulgar, and seemed to view the desert from a commercialised, Hollywood lens, rather than feeling its power and reflecting that desolation. Then the CGI, I say no more.
On the plus side, two sequences were outstanding: when Paul first steps onto the desert and picks up the sand/spice; and Paul and his mother's flight through the dust storm. That was world class.
When I saw the Patlabor poster some time ago, I was intrigued. That was part two I believe. Yes, as time goes by, I prefer to look back at older anime. I think it's fair to say the industry has gone downhill these days.
And thanks for that great description of Planetes. I won't mind giving one or two episodes a go and seeing what it's like. It reminds me that I've still got to watch Cowboy Bepop.
Planetes is one of those series that takes a while to get going. The further you go, the deeper it gets. If you really don't like the first couple episodes, maybe it's not for you. However, you do get rewarded the longer you stick with it.
> I haven't read the books but hope to do so before going into the coffin.
There's a lot you can read into it about the corrupting tendencies of empires and exploitation of peoples and their natural resources. It feels like it might've tapped into the decolonization zeitgeist, or at least what I presume it should've been, as the former colonial powers of Europe unwound their foreign holdings. I could do without so much of the psychedelic stuff, but I know Heinlein also went there. So, maybe that was just another trend in 1960's sci fi.
> If you go back to Lynch's 1984 version
It's funny this came up, because I just started watching it last weekend and finished it mere hours ago. It did seem a bit overwrought. I remember how he seemed rather too fascinated with the perversions and excesses of the Harkkonen. I thought the exposition was a bit too much for the naive movie-goer, but probably a helpful reminder for those who'd read the books years earlier.
Since I came to it with low expectations, I really wasn't disappointed. Since the movie had many shots in low light, I wonder just how much I benefited from seeing a clean, HD presentation. Overall, I guess my main complaints would be that some of the acting seemed sub-par (Sting, for one, definitely should've stayed focused on the music business) and I just wouldn't have tried to cover so much plot. It felt busy and probably hard for people to follow, without having read it. I wasn't too bothered by the dated special effects, but they do kind of jump out at you. Some of the sets were quite impressive.
> The new movie took "show, don't tell" a bit too far
Probably a reaction to Lynch's version. I also wonder if his 1990 TV series, Twin Peaks, was also sort of a reaction to the criticism he got for too much exposition in Dune.
Anyway, the last I'll say about it is that I'm finding the Wikipedia page on Dune to be a good resource on the author and his influences.
The visuals prevented me from watching it for a long time. It was only after I became a fan of David Lynch that I was able to see past that and appreciate what he had done. I think for a two-hour adaptation of such a vast novel, it is a commendable attempt, and I prefer it. As for the excesses, etc., well, that's Lynch as always. He always tends to bring out the darker side of things.
I actually love Twin Peaks, and the recent season 3 was spectacular, if strange. But strange is this man's domain. Did too much exposition have an effect on his later work? I would say that Dune was an exception. Generally, his films are pretty obscure, nothing much being spelled out, and one often has to piece together a puzzle. He started off with that note in Eraserhead and hasn't really changed in four decades.
I never really watched it. My older sister watched the original TV airing. All I remember of it was the general strangeness and a recollection that even its conclusion left much unanswered.
I haven't seen much of Lynch's work, but I did enjoy Mulholland Dr. All I remember from it is that I decided it's a fool's errand to make complete sense of the plot, since there were paradoxes inserted seemingly with the intent to break any strict interpretation.
> Did too much exposition have an effect on his later work?
That's not really what I meant. I was suggesting he got too much negative feedback on all the exposition in Dune, and therefore went too far in the other direction of being too obscure.
From what I've heard, Kubrick would sometimes indulge in excessive obscurity to create a false sense of depth. The prime example being 2001: A Space Odyssey. If you actually read the book, you can supposedly see what kind of shenanigans he got up to, which I've heard he even admitted in an interview.
> He started off with that note in Eraserhead and hasn't really changed in four decades.
Ah, right. I never got round to watching that one.
Mulholland Drive is perhaps my favourite film of all films. Again, it's the tragic note that speaks to me, and Naomi Watts, brilliant. I've racked my head over this story a great deal, and my tentative answer is that even the latter part, Diane's tale, is a dream, various pieces of evidence pointing there, particularly the blue box and the smoke. The question is, whose dream is *that*! Perhaps it's the director's dream after all.
I haven't read 2001, but you're right, the film keeps things pretty bare and mysterious, and that creates the feeling of a deep, even terrible, mystery. Our age could actually learn something from that and stop filling in all the details. The human mind does a far better job at piecing together the monster in the shadows.
MD is the best. All his other films tend to be something of a mess or too obscure or too excessive. In particular, I despise Lost Highway. Straight Story is good for the whole family though, and Elephant Man.
I saw Red, long ago. I remember it made an impression on me, but not much else.
I remember watching bits of Elephant Man with my parents, but they rented and watched it at home and I think I was too young to really sit and watch the whole thing.
Never saw Lost Highway, but I think one of the first MP3s I got was a rip of the Trent Reznor song from it + remixes.
Heh, I just watched the documentary: Jodorowsky's Dune. What a trippy guy! He literally cast Salvador Dali as the Emperor and seems to have been H.R. Geiger's route into the movie business. We can probably thank the fact that he cast Mick Jagger as Feyd-Rautha as the reason Sting ended up in Lynch's version.
I think it's safe to say it would've been a *very* different movie. He seemed most fascinated by the aspects of the book that least impressed me (i.e. the mysticism and psychedelic stuff). He said he wanted the movie to seem like a long acid trip and even admitted to changing the ending. Unapologetically. He's *that* kind of film maker ...which is okay, but just not if you're a fan of the book.
The first time I saw Red, I didn't think much of it, except that it was very polished stylistically; but it's the sort of film that gains a lot from repeat viewings, and possesses a beautiful symmetry and design. It seems to distill, in a simpler fashion, the "plot" we sometimes see in life.
I've often heard about Jodorowsky's Dune and need to watch that documentary. Well, if Geiger's designs were supposed to be there, it would've been a striking movie, that's for sure! I get the feeling I might have actually enjoyed it. Anyhow, looks as if the faithful Dune adaptation is still to be made. Where is this mighty director?
> I've often heard about Jodorowsky's Dune and need to watch that documentary.
You'd get a little more from the documentary if you'd read the book, first. Otherwise, you wouldn't have as much appreciation for the aspects of the book that attracted him. Plus, there's a bit of a spoiler, later in the documentary, where he talks about how he was going to change the ending.
M1 is cute, nothing more. It's GPU is relatively powerful compared to other mobile chips, otherwise it sucks. I have an M1 Mac Mini so it's first-hand experience.
not to mention the battery life. of course, if you're doing power consuming task like render, 4k video playback, or gaming, keep the device at wall power. but if you simply browsing, watching vids, or typing and doesn't need to use wall power continuously, the battery life are much much better than Alder Lake or Cezanne.
Rembrandt is a solid upgrade considering it was not a new cpu core. Still its good time to be a consumer. I hope anandtech reviews a 1280p laptops as well. That supposedly does very well at lower wattages as well.
The comparison I most want to see is the XPS 13 Plus with a 1280P up against the ThinkPad Z13 with a 6860Z. The ThinkPad looks like it may be the first AMD laptop in the same league as the XPS.
"We haven't touched battery life or graphics" - the two areas where AMD completely destroys Intel. And arguably the 2 areas that most consumers will be bothered about. What a joke of an article.
In 35/45W laptops, including this one, a dGPU will generally be present, making it a little moot. I expect more of a focus on graphics in the 15W review.
Not at all. Most laptops (+80%) are below 45W TDP and they don't have a dGPU, and rely on the iGPU. It's a shame AMD has dragged their heels in this segment. For that reason, RDNA-2 is a substantial upgrade for most laptop users, but if you want a thick, heavy, Gaming Laptop then you are better off with the (12th-gen) Intel CPU and Nvidia dGPU (GeForce 30).
Besides, I see AMD's tech as eras: 2015-era, 16nm, Zen1, Vega Graphics 2018-era, 8nm, Zen2, RDNA-1 graphics 2021-era, 6nm, Zen3, RDNA-2 graphics 2024-era, 4nm, Zen4, RDNA-3 graphics ...roughly speaking (obviously years don't align)
And someone earlier asked how do these different GPU architectures compare. It's hard to do a true Potatoes-to-Potatoes comparison. However, from my understanding of the latest options it goes:
Qualcomm Adreno 7th-gen > Apple Graphics M1 > PowerVr IMG B-series > AMD RDNA-2 > Nvidia Ampere > ARM Mali Valhall 4th-gen > Intel Xe 1st-gen.
...obviously even the latest 4nm Adreno 730 when maxed out at 10W TDP, is no match against an older 8nm RTX 3050 that is thermal limited to only 100W TDP.
I hate to say it, but I agree.... this is literally one of the biggest step increases in iGPU performance; EVER, and nobody is talking about it. Why? Does Intel have input on how these articles are written? Or does it contribute to the ad revenue and people are wary of disrupting that? Its literally the MOST interesting thing about this CPU.
Mostly because these systems ship with dGPUs. The iGPU in mobile Ryzen 6000 is a nice upgrade and simply demolishes anything Intel offers, currently.
The mainstream 15-28W article should focus on iGPU, as these won't ship with dGPUs, usually. This is the meat of the market, and a good iGPU is critical to a good experience.
AMD's mobile strategy seems to be a quick-iterative design. Renoir and Cezanne were nearly on top of each other, as Cezanne came back from the fab just as Renoir shipped. So, with mobile Ryzen 6000/Rembrandt, AMD offers a new iGPU+(LP)DDR5 rather than new CPU cores, plus SoC optimizations overall.
The one thing that bothers me about the RDNA2 iGPU is that AMD disables an entire shader array in the 6600U instead of simply turning off 2 WGPs (4 CUs). So, there's a sharp performance drop between the two models and 6600U will be the primary volume seller, I think. 12 CUs to 6 CUs, instead of 12 -> 8 -> 6.
Honestly it’s been like this for a while now. Just go to the home page and count how many Intel marketing articles we’ve had over the last couple months. Now we get a half arsed joke of a review like this on AMD hardware. Obviously in Intel’s pocket.
DannyH246 i see you cry about this all the time, if anandtech is that bad, WHY do you keep coming here ? is it just to whine and cry?? im sure you will just reply with some sort of BS, but it HAS been stated before, there are times when most articles are intel, and others are AMD, its just the way the cycles go.
>Per-Thread Power/Clock Control: Rather than being per core, each thread can carry requirements
Does that imply the core can change its voltage and clocking on the same timescale as switching SMT thread? I thought modern SMT was fine-grained enough that there are instructions from both threads in-flight at once.
Or is it just for simplifying the OS's cpufreq driver?
>For example, if a core is idle for a few seconds, would it be better to put in a sleep state?
>>While we haven’t touched battery life or graphics in this article
that's pretty critical for a Laptop review. I'm pretty tired of Intel reviews constantly covering their 12th gen superiority without talking about power. It's easy to beat a competitor if you just double the power budget. It's laughable that Intel is pretending they've caught up to Apple.
How fast do these chips perform vp9 4k decode? A major use case moving forward will be game streaming, and I'm struggling to find hardware acceleration numbers.
Writing this from a 5900HX (Asus G17 Strix) and upgrading from a i7 7700HQ that, I have to say is really efficient for what it is, the AMD laptop is just in another league of its own. Both have a 90Wh battery and the Intel, not even new, would break the 4h mark. This thing has as much usage as my tablets with normal usage. It's really impressive and, for the go stuff, it's so SO nice. Then you need to game and it just works. The 6800M is quite the beast in its own right. Sad this thing doesn't have a mux switch, but it still works amazingly well.
This preamble was just to say, I'm surprised the 6000HK isn't a lot better, but I guess it's to be expected. On paper, the 6000 mobile series has a lot of potential with PCIe4 and slightly better process. DDR5 is too new IMO to show a definitive advantage on mobile, but maybe next gen will leap. I have DDR4L 3200 with my 5900HX and I put DDR4L 2666 to the i7 7700HQ, so DDR5L needs to be way faster than the crappy 4800 MT/s JEDEC spec we have currently.
IMO, the article was long enough and had plenty to cover. I think it's not a problem, if those are reviewed separately, however it does make the overall comparison vs. Intel problematic.
Anyway, we now know Ian was writing it on his way out the door, so that makes it at least understandable.
I am awaiting the day where Ryzens become more widespread in workstation class laptops. Very few machines had them when I had to upgrade this past summer, so had to go Intel. Which has been a bit lack luster.
Interesting read, buts seems like it depends on what offer you can find and what else the laptop has to give. RDNA2 is a plus though, if you're going for integrated graphics.
I thought it was fairly interesting that although I looked for it, I could not find a description of the system used to supply the Intel numbers that were plugged into the charts used--if those specs are included and I missed them, then mea culpa. But if not, well, that's interesting...and I also found it very interesting that Intel was nowhere to be found/mentioned in the Performance Per Watt section...;)
> I also found it very interesting that Intel was nowhere to be found/mentioned > in the Performance Per Watt section...;)
Exactly. What they did show was that Intel could/would scale up power consumption of its single-core performance higher than Zen 3+. What's not obvious is how much of Intel's performance advantage simply comes down to juicing their P-cores, at the expense of efficiency.
I started typing a comment using Chrome browser on iPad (just like this). The page or adverts triggered a page refresh. Looses comment, gone… empty. Very annoying.
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yankeeDDL - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Great article, as usual.It seems clear that Intel's AL still has the performance advantage, however, in the Conclusion page, the performance comparison is reference to the nominal consumption (35W, 45W, 65W), while we know that Intel's part can reach twice as much power, in practice, making an apples-to-apples comparison quite difficult, especially in light of Intel's better scaling with more Power.
Is there a way to check the exact performance per core under the same exact consumption (or scaled)?
I am especially interested as a user of the 1165G, which is an absolute battery eater (and/or heater): it seems that AL is a huge improvement, but if it also draws 100W (instead of 45W) to beat Ryzen by a 10%, then it's not worth it. In my opinion.
Spunjji - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Yes, the overall picture that has built up is of Intel's Alder Lake winning out at higher power levels (40W+) while AMD coming out ahead below that.This is good, because it means that we have great options for people who want the best possible performance in a mobile form-factor and for people who want a more even balance of performance and power usage. It's a nicer situation to be in than when Intel complete owned the mobile segment, followed by the years of stagnation at 14nm.
yankeeDDL - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Agree on all points.Intel's Tiger Lake is an absolute disaster, and it is actually surprising that Intel only managed to lose 50% market share with such a lousy product compared to Ryzen.
And equally surprising is the insane jump in performance and perf/watt achieved with AL. Definitely good for the consumers.
mode_13h - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
> Intel's Tiger Lake is an absolute disasterThat seems like an overstatement. It just didn't improve enough against Ryzen, particularly in light of the 5000-series' gains. However, especially in light of Ice Lake's disappointments, Tiger Lake didn't seem so bad.
Alistair - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Tiger Lake was a stroke of luck for Intel, their worst product ever during a massive silicon shortage. They spent the year selling quad cores because AMD was selling everything they could make, not because Tiger Lake was any good.bigboxes - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
For sure. I went with AMD for the first time since 2006 this last year.Samus - Thursday, March 3, 2022 - link
The irony here is AMD mobile CPU's are widespread in lots of desktops and AIO's, even high end units. You would rarely, if ever, see Intel U-series parts in desktops\AIO's outside of USFF's or low-end AIO's with Celeron\Pentiums.This is happening partially because AMD doesn't have a wide product stack like Intel. And they don't need too. The AMD U-series parts are absolute performance monsters and have been for the last 3 generations.
abufrejoval - Friday, March 4, 2022 - link
I own both, a Ryzen 5800U in a notebook and an i7-1165G7 as a NUC.They are really quite comparable, both in iGPU performance, in scalar CPU power and even in multi-threaded CPU power.
At 15 Watts the 8 Ryzen cores operate below the CMOS knee, which means they have to clock so low they can't really gain much against 4 Tiger Lake cores clocking above it. Synthetic benchmarks may prove a lead that's next to impossible to realize or really relevant in day-to-day work. For the heavy lifting, I use a 5950X, which isn't that much faster on scalar loads, but runs almost as many rings around the 5800U as the i7-1165G7: the extra Watts make more of a difference than the cores alone.
My impression is that the Ryzen needs the higher power envelope, 35 or even 65 Watts, and of course a matching workload to put those extra cores to work. AMD's primary aim for their APUs was to cover as many use cases as possible from a single part and they do amazingly well. If they could afford to do a native 4 core variant as well, I'm pretty sure that would outsell the 8 core.
In fact the SteamDeck SoC would probably make a better notebook part for many (not everyone).
And there is nothing wrong with Tiger Lake, except that perhaps today there are better SoCs around: it was and remains a welcome improvement over the previous generations from Intel.
Buy it used and/or cheaper than these AL parts and you should have little to complain about... unless complaining is what you really enjoy.
mode_13h - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
> Great article, as usual.I thought so, as well, which was a relief. Then, I noticed the by-line:
"by Dr. Ian Cutress"
lemurbutton - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
People shouldn't care that much about AMD and Intel on laptops right now. M1 series completely destroys both. AMD and Intel are 3-4 years behind.web2dot0 - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
PC fanbois would pretend M1 isn't in the convo.😆
They will just tell you that nobody cares about performance per watt... because they said so.
Qasar - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
and the apple fanboys just keep talking about the m1 like its the best things since sliced bread, whats your point ?bottom line is this, IF you are already using the over priced apple eco system, then the m1 makes sense, if not, then there is no point to it. i only know 3 people that have either an ipad, or a mac based comp, the rest wont touch apple cause of the price, too expensive for what they would need it for, windows based products, suit their needs just fine.
schujj07 - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
For sure Apple is way too expensive for what you get. Working in industry I hate it when I have to give support to someone using a Mac because the VPN we send them doesn't work. Of the hundreds of VPNs I have sent to people, less then 10 have responded to me saying they need the one for Mac. Mac just doesn't play as nicely with the things we use in a lot of IT.Obiwanbilly - Friday, March 4, 2022 - link
Oh, the VPN doesn’t work? I have an M1 MacBook Air and I use WireGuard for my VPN. It works perfect!Oh 🤔, do you mean “Legacy” VPNs, that are based on IPSEC or OpenVPN? You know, the one’s where Wikipedia says, “… are often complex to set up, disconnect easily (in the absence of further configuration), take substantial time to negotiate reconnections, may use outdated ciphers, and have relatively massive code bases of over 400,000 and 600,000 lines of code, respectively, which hinders debugging.“
That one? 👆😱
Hey bro, some of us Mac users are “Pros” too. Maybe you should stop using legacy VPN software and switch to something better? Instead of blaming Macs! 🤦♂️
Obiwanbill
BushLin - Friday, March 4, 2022 - link
Try connecting to your employer's VPN, chances are that it's not wireguard.Obiwanbilly - Friday, March 4, 2022 - link
Yep, it’s legacy. It needs to be upgraded. I can help, if you want. 😬I don’t know why you would continue to use OpenVPN or IPSec. I first used that tech like 14 yrs ago. Move on! 🤓
Go research the benefits of using WireGuard. It’s a waaaay better solution. Dropped connections on IPSec or Open VPN take FOREVER to reconnect. You don’t need licenses, you can support unlimited users. Your limitation is the hardware you choose to host your WireGuard Server endpoint. WireGuard supports Windows and Android endpoint client devices. Oh yeah, and Mac OS too. 🥳
ObiwanBilly
Dug - Friday, March 11, 2022 - link
Then you have an outdated or crappy vpn. Every industry standard has a mac client that works fine. Even Azure has a mac configuration for mac vpn.wolfesteinabhi - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
it will be in convo when Apple starts selling Windows "PC" with M1 in it. till then its definitely not in Convo.tyger11 - Thursday, March 3, 2022 - link
OS X is enough to keep me away from that hardware, so it doesn't matter.GeoffreyA - Thursday, March 3, 2022 - link
Frieza's stronger than Goku right now---Kangal - Sunday, March 6, 2022 - link
Zeno, Guards of Zeno, Grand Priest, Whis/Angels, Awakened Gass, Ultra Granolah, Ultra Instinct Goku, Beerus/GoDs, Fused Zamasu, Prime Moro, Raged Broly, Ultra Ego Vegeta, Full-power Jiren, LSS Kefla, Destruction Toppo, Max Hit, Anilaza, SSJ Rose Black, Golden Frieza, Dyspo, LSS Kale, Spirit Future Trunks, Super Ribrianne, Trained #17, Ultimate Gohan, Buu, Seven-Three.GeoffreyA - Monday, March 7, 2022 - link
Astonishing, and thanks for that! Remembering only Buu, Ultimate Gohan, and a bit of Beerus, I am really out of touch with DB canon!Kangal - Tuesday, March 8, 2022 - link
You can find the new series Dragon Ball Super online or even youtube. There is also the official manga which you can read for free* here:https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/chapters/dragon-bal...
*only the latest three issues available, new issues always free.
GeoffreyA - Tuesday, March 8, 2022 - link
Thanks, I only saw the first 10-15 episodes of Super in 2018, where Beerus came to the cruiseship, and still hope to watch the rest of it, eventually. It was nostalgic, I remember, seeing these dear characters after so long.mode_13h - Wednesday, March 9, 2022 - link
Eh, I only watched the original series. The few things after it that I had seen lacked the same charm. And among that series, the first season was one of the best. The censors had clearly cracked down on it, after that.What I thought worked so well about the original DB was Goku's innocence, ignorance, indomitable spirit, and purity of heart. That made it so much more entertaining and gratifying to see him overcome all the obstacles and enemies he encountered. And it's almost as if not knowing his own limitations made him unrestrained by them.
GeoffreyA - Thursday, March 10, 2022 - link
That's an exact description of Goku's character and is likely the secret of his greatness and why he often prevailed over his enemies. I would add that forgiveness was another trait of his, and something they could never understand. It's almost paradoxical, at least in DBZ, how he was the comic clumsy figure, and yet when it came to saving the world, only he could do it. Without knowing it, people are emulating, I feel, more of Vegeta's cynical character today. What the world needs is more of Goku.mode_13h - Friday, March 11, 2022 - link
I haven't watched much since the mid 2000's, but I thought Luffy, in One Piece, had a similar personality. However, he seemed to have a mercurial wisdom and canniness, just beneath the surface. In that regard, he seemed to have echos of Irresponsible Captain Taylor.I don't remember too much of Naruto, though I had started watching it from the beginning. Like Goku, he also had an innocence and indomitably, but there was obviously a darkness about him and inside of him.
I wouldn't have patience for any of that, now. Even at the time, it seemed rather excessively drawn out.
BTW, did you see the live action DB movie? I think it was made around 2008? More of a Hollywood movie; not Japanese. I'm apparently among the small minority who actually liked it. It helps to remember that Dragon Ball itself is loosely based on the ancient tale of Saiyuki and just don't expect a direct translation from the TV series or manga. It's very much a reinterpretation, but I enjoyed it.
GeoffreyA - Monday, March 14, 2022 - link
Luffy is very like Goku, regarding his innocence, simplicity, and goodness, but yes, he had another element which is hard to pin down. Perhaps a certain stoic quality that clicked on at times, and made him something fearful to all those who practised evil. (It's even evident when they left the Merry; Goku would never have operated like that, and for my part, I agree with Usopp.) I really loved One Piece. It could often be tedious and silly, but once the story knocked into gear, it was usually astonishing, and gave you the feeling of being on an adventure with noble companions. Namaka. My favourite arcs were Arlong/Nami, Arabasta, and Water 7. In 2018, I got stuck at Thriller Bark and never went on.What caused me to stop was seeing Evangelion for the first time that year. It left me a sadder, more sober person for ever; and I'll add a word of warning to others, Eva is terribly depressing and no joke. That and Steins;Gate are my favourite anime. I've heard great things about Naruto but to this day have not seen a single episode. Rurouni Kenshin was nice.
My brother really enjoyed the live-action Dragon Ball, but though I've seen only bits and pieces, I always debate with him that it's not the real DB! He contends that it's pretty good. Well, perhaps I need to sit down and actually watch it and give it a proper appraisal.
mode_13h - Tuesday, March 15, 2022 - link
Wow, all those One Piece names are definitely a flashback. I hung out with some Kenshin fans, so I saw the entire original series.Evangelion was pretty mind-blowing for me, when the original series first aired. A bit confusing, especially with the movies, the revisionist ending, and whatnot.
More recently, I went to a marathon showing of the original series, back when they started releasing the new version. I watched the first 2-3 installments of the new version and just quit. It got too absurd for me. I never liked the direction Gainax took with FLCL, but I guess it was inevitable the new Eva would go there (and lose me). I did really like Kare Kano and Chobits (lol, they seemed to have HDDs inside!).
I got a lot from Evangelion, but I'm pretty much over it. Not unlike how I parted ways with the Star Wars franchise, more than a decade ago. I just don't need it. I don't seem to have trouble finding enough to watch. For instance, a movie I recently enjoyed was Arrival.
Even the news is like a high-tension drama, for at least the past half decade. I can really feel like I'm living through history. It gives me a new perspective on much of the past century and what it was probably like, at the time.
Some other old anime that's fun to re-watch are the original Patlabor OAV series and movies, Akira, and the Ghost in the Shell series and movies. And every time I hear about space junk in the news, my mind goes back to Planetes.
GeoffreyA - Tuesday, March 15, 2022 - link
Evangelion is indeed out of this world. It's really the sadness of the characters that touched me, though of course the relentless, minimal action was impressive when it came. Can anyone ever forget Eva-01 breaking out of the shadow space in episode 16, or the time, nearing the end, when it reactivates though its power is gone? The new movies' weakness is that they tried to spin everything out to excessive detail, whereas the series' strength was minimalism. The characterisation, too, was subtly altered. Anyhow, last year I watched the final film, Thrice upon a Time, and can honestly say they did a good job and ended Eva on a surprisingly cheerful note, with a good message. I secretly hope for a return someday.I haven't seen most of the anime you mentioned, except for Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Suffice to say, Akira leaves the viewer speechless.
Same here. Lost my interest in Star Wars and don't care to see it again. Arrival was great, with a good performance by Amy Adams. And talking of Villeneuve movies, the new Dune was a big disappointment to me.
mode_13h - Friday, March 18, 2022 - link
> I haven't seen most of the anime you mentionedThe Patlabor OAVs and movies are good for an 80's/90's nostalgia hit, IMO. It's that sort of old timey mecha anime that attracted many of us to the anime multiverse, in the first place. When I watched the OAVs on blu ray, the restoration was fantastic. Very crisp HD.
> the new Dune was a big disappointment to me.
Yeah, I read the trilogy before watching it. I'm so glad I did, because I knew exactly what was going on. Otherwise, I might've been lost.
Yeah, they tried too hard to follow the narrative of the book. I think the only way to do it, and still end up with a good movie, is to focus on a particular story arc. If they'd nailed it, that would've set the stage for more to follow.
I'd imagine they shot so much footage that it could conceivably be re-edited. I know they didn't shoot beyond the movie's ending, because I saw an interview with Zendaya, where she said she was only on location for the desert scenes for a couple days.
mode_13h - Friday, March 18, 2022 - link
I mean the original Patlabor OAVs. There are about 7 of them, I think. Near movie-quality animation, for the time.BTW, some aspects of the Ghost in the Shell franchise definitely make more sense, as we move towards the future it predicted.
Oh, and Planetes is a nice series about a crew working to collect orbital debris. It aired about 2 decades ago, but I think it was based on manga that was older, still. Some aspects of it were a bit anachronistic even for the time, but other aspects about space physics and orbital living clearly received a lot of thought and attention. The story arc is a lot more interesting than it sounds, with lots of commentary about life, love, the privatization of space, corporate politics, geopolitics, personal ambition, and the ultimate path and personal costs of space exploration. If you don't mind a bit of slapstick and are willing to look past some of the more anachronistic aspects, it's worth a watch.
GeoffreyA - Saturday, March 19, 2022 - link
I haven't read the books but hope to do so before going into the coffin. Well, my view is that the excessive realism somehow harms the movie. If you go back to Lynch's 1984 version, despite the outlandish visuals, it is pretty alien, as Dune should be; and from a storytelling point of view, does that pretty well, going forward rapidly. Also, the princess's summary in the beginning got the viewer up to speed with this strange universe.The new movie took "show, don't tell" a bit too far, and the story didn't feel cohesive or unified, especially towards the end. It was tedious. The visions seemed forced and overdone. And for an epic, the cinematography was poor in my opinion. A key problem, I feel, is that it didn't bring out the true spirit of the desert. Coupled to this issue is Zimmer's music, in my view, missing the mark. It was too loud and vulgar, and seemed to view the desert from a commercialised, Hollywood lens, rather than feeling its power and reflecting that desolation. Then the CGI, I say no more.
On the plus side, two sequences were outstanding: when Paul first steps onto the desert and picks up the sand/spice; and Paul and his mother's flight through the dust storm. That was world class.
GeoffreyA - Saturday, March 19, 2022 - link
When I saw the Patlabor poster some time ago, I was intrigued. That was part two I believe. Yes, as time goes by, I prefer to look back at older anime. I think it's fair to say the industry has gone downhill these days.And thanks for that great description of Planetes. I won't mind giving one or two episodes a go and seeing what it's like. It reminds me that I've still got to watch Cowboy Bepop.
mode_13h - Sunday, March 20, 2022 - link
Planetes is one of those series that takes a while to get going. The further you go, the deeper it gets. If you really don't like the first couple episodes, maybe it's not for you. However, you do get rewarded the longer you stick with it.mode_13h - Monday, March 21, 2022 - link
> I haven't read the books but hope to do so before going into the coffin.There's a lot you can read into it about the corrupting tendencies of empires and exploitation of peoples and their natural resources. It feels like it might've tapped into the decolonization zeitgeist, or at least what I presume it should've been, as the former colonial powers of Europe unwound their foreign holdings. I could do without so much of the psychedelic stuff, but I know Heinlein also went there. So, maybe that was just another trend in 1960's sci fi.
> If you go back to Lynch's 1984 version
It's funny this came up, because I just started watching it last weekend and finished it mere hours ago. It did seem a bit overwrought. I remember how he seemed rather too fascinated with the perversions and excesses of the Harkkonen. I thought the exposition was a bit too much for the naive movie-goer, but probably a helpful reminder for those who'd read the books years earlier.
Since I came to it with low expectations, I really wasn't disappointed. Since the movie had many shots in low light, I wonder just how much I benefited from seeing a clean, HD presentation. Overall, I guess my main complaints would be that some of the acting seemed sub-par (Sting, for one, definitely should've stayed focused on the music business) and I just wouldn't have tried to cover so much plot. It felt busy and probably hard for people to follow, without having read it. I wasn't too bothered by the dated special effects, but they do kind of jump out at you. Some of the sets were quite impressive.
> The new movie took "show, don't tell" a bit too far
Probably a reaction to Lynch's version. I also wonder if his 1990 TV series, Twin Peaks, was also sort of a reaction to the criticism he got for too much exposition in Dune.
Anyway, the last I'll say about it is that I'm finding the Wikipedia page on Dune to be a good resource on the author and his influences.
GeoffreyA - Monday, March 21, 2022 - link
The visuals prevented me from watching it for a long time. It was only after I became a fan of David Lynch that I was able to see past that and appreciate what he had done. I think for a two-hour adaptation of such a vast novel, it is a commendable attempt, and I prefer it. As for the excesses, etc., well, that's Lynch as always. He always tends to bring out the darker side of things.I actually love Twin Peaks, and the recent season 3 was spectacular, if strange. But strange is this man's domain. Did too much exposition have an effect on his later work? I would say that Dune was an exception. Generally, his films are pretty obscure, nothing much being spelled out, and one often has to piece together a puzzle. He started off with that note in Eraserhead and hasn't really changed in four decades.
GeoffreyA - Monday, March 21, 2022 - link
"Sting, for one, definitely should've stayed focused on the music business"The best line!
mode_13h - Tuesday, March 22, 2022 - link
> I actually love Twin PeaksI never really watched it. My older sister watched the original TV airing. All I remember of it was the general strangeness and a recollection that even its conclusion left much unanswered.
I haven't seen much of Lynch's work, but I did enjoy Mulholland Dr. All I remember from it is that I decided it's a fool's errand to make complete sense of the plot, since there were paradoxes inserted seemingly with the intent to break any strict interpretation.
> Did too much exposition have an effect on his later work?
That's not really what I meant. I was suggesting he got too much negative feedback on all the exposition in Dune, and therefore went too far in the other direction of being too obscure.
From what I've heard, Kubrick would sometimes indulge in excessive obscurity to create a false sense of depth. The prime example being 2001: A Space Odyssey. If you actually read the book, you can supposedly see what kind of shenanigans he got up to, which I've heard he even admitted in an interview.
> He started off with that note in Eraserhead and hasn't really changed in four decades.
Ah, right. I never got round to watching that one.
GeoffreyA - Wednesday, March 23, 2022 - link
Mulholland Drive is perhaps my favourite film of all films. Again, it's the tragic note that speaks to me, and Naomi Watts, brilliant. I've racked my head over this story a great deal, and my tentative answer is that even the latter part, Diane's tale, is a dream, various pieces of evidence pointing there, particularly the blue box and the smoke. The question is, whose dream is *that*! Perhaps it's the director's dream after all.I haven't read 2001, but you're right, the film keeps things pretty bare and mysterious, and that creates the feeling of a deep, even terrible, mystery. Our age could actually learn something from that and stop filling in all the details. The human mind does a far better job at piecing together the monster in the shadows.
mode_13h - Thursday, March 24, 2022 - link
> Mulholland Drive is perhaps my favourite film of all films.After your last post, I was already going to start (re-)watching Lynch's films, but maybe I'll start there.
GeoffreyA - Monday, March 28, 2022 - link
MD is the best. All his other films tend to be something of a mess or too obscure or too excessive. In particular, I despise Lost Highway. Straight Story is good for the whole family though, and Elephant Man.GeoffreyA - Monday, March 28, 2022 - link
Another film I love is Kieslowski's "Trois couleurs rouge" (Three Colours: Red).mode_13h - Wednesday, March 30, 2022 - link
I saw Red, long ago. I remember it made an impression on me, but not much else.I remember watching bits of Elephant Man with my parents, but they rented and watched it at home and I think I was too young to really sit and watch the whole thing.
Never saw Lost Highway, but I think one of the first MP3s I got was a rip of the Trent Reznor song from it + remixes.
Heh, I just watched the documentary: Jodorowsky's Dune. What a trippy guy! He literally cast Salvador Dali as the Emperor and seems to have been H.R. Geiger's route into the movie business. We can probably thank the fact that he cast Mick Jagger as Feyd-Rautha as the reason Sting ended up in Lynch's version.
I think it's safe to say it would've been a *very* different movie. He seemed most fascinated by the aspects of the book that least impressed me (i.e. the mysticism and psychedelic stuff). He said he wanted the movie to seem like a long acid trip and even admitted to changing the ending. Unapologetically. He's *that* kind of film maker ...which is okay, but just not if you're a fan of the book.
GeoffreyA - Friday, April 1, 2022 - link
The first time I saw Red, I didn't think much of it, except that it was very polished stylistically; but it's the sort of film that gains a lot from repeat viewings, and possesses a beautiful symmetry and design. It seems to distill, in a simpler fashion, the "plot" we sometimes see in life.I've often heard about Jodorowsky's Dune and need to watch that documentary. Well, if Geiger's designs were supposed to be there, it would've been a striking movie, that's for sure! I get the feeling I might have actually enjoyed it. Anyhow, looks as if the faithful Dune adaptation is still to be made. Where is this mighty director?
GeoffreyA - Friday, April 1, 2022 - link
(Come to think of it, DeMille might have done a good job.)mode_13h - Saturday, April 2, 2022 - link
> I've often heard about Jodorowsky's Dune and need to watch that documentary.You'd get a little more from the documentary if you'd read the book, first. Otherwise, you wouldn't have as much appreciation for the aspects of the book that attracted him. Plus, there's a bit of a spoiler, later in the documentary, where he talks about how he was going to change the ending.
GeoffreyA - Sunday, April 3, 2022 - link
I see. Thanks for that warning!Violet Giraffe - Friday, March 11, 2022 - link
Are you mad? Apple is at least a year behind the real CPU manufacturers. And Zen 4 will leave it on the side of the road.Violet Giraffe - Friday, March 11, 2022 - link
M1 is cute, nothing more. It's GPU is relatively powerful compared to other mobile chips, otherwise it sucks. I have an M1 Mac Mini so it's first-hand experience.mode_13h - Sunday, March 13, 2022 - link
> M1 is cute, nothing more.Cool story bro. I guess the original M1 rather skimps on RAM. Maybe that's what's limiting your "first-hand experience".
Dug - Friday, March 11, 2022 - link
You don't know much about the architecture, do you?Marlin1975 - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
From what I have seen Intel will hold the 45watt+ performance crown but the AMD 6000 series will do better at lower wattage.Fulljack - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
not to mention the battery life. of course, if you're doing power consuming task like render, 4k video playback, or gaming, keep the device at wall power. but if you simply browsing, watching vids, or typing and doesn't need to use wall power continuously, the battery life are much much better than Alder Lake or Cezanne.yankeeDDL - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
I have the same impression, but I did not see any solid data confirming this.trivik12 - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Rembrandt is a solid upgrade considering it was not a new cpu core. Still its good time to be a consumer. I hope anandtech reviews a 1280p laptops as well. That supposedly does very well at lower wattages as well.skavi - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
The comparison I most want to see is the XPS 13 Plus with a 1280P up against the ThinkPad Z13 with a 6860Z. The ThinkPad looks like it may be the first AMD laptop in the same league as the XPS.skavi - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-13-Plus-932...https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Z13-...
Links for anyone interested.
DannyH246 - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
"We haven't touched battery life or graphics" - the two areas where AMD completely destroys Intel. And arguably the 2 areas that most consumers will be bothered about. What a joke of an article.GoldenBullet - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Agreed, the igpu is amazing in ryzen 6000.ingwe - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
While I understand not looking at battery life in this, not looking at graphics is a big miss._abit - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Back to pimping intel ever so gentlySarahKerrigan - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
In 35/45W laptops, including this one, a dGPU will generally be present, making it a little moot. I expect more of a focus on graphics in the 15W review.Kangal - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
Not at all.Most laptops (+80%) are below 45W TDP and they don't have a dGPU, and rely on the iGPU. It's a shame AMD has dragged their heels in this segment. For that reason, RDNA-2 is a substantial upgrade for most laptop users, but if you want a thick, heavy, Gaming Laptop then you are better off with the (12th-gen) Intel CPU and Nvidia dGPU (GeForce 30).
Besides, I see AMD's tech as eras:
2015-era, 16nm, Zen1, Vega Graphics
2018-era, 8nm, Zen2, RDNA-1 graphics
2021-era, 6nm, Zen3, RDNA-2 graphics
2024-era, 4nm, Zen4, RDNA-3 graphics
...roughly speaking (obviously years don't align)
And someone earlier asked how do these different GPU architectures compare. It's hard to do a true Potatoes-to-Potatoes comparison. However, from my understanding of the latest options it goes:
Qualcomm Adreno 7th-gen > Apple Graphics M1 > PowerVr IMG B-series > AMD RDNA-2 > Nvidia Ampere > ARM Mali Valhall 4th-gen > Intel Xe 1st-gen.
...obviously even the latest 4nm Adreno 730 when maxed out at 10W TDP, is no match against an older 8nm RTX 3050 that is thermal limited to only 100W TDP.
cbutters - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
I hate to say it, but I agree.... this is literally one of the biggest step increases in iGPU performance; EVER, and nobody is talking about it. Why? Does Intel have input on how these articles are written? Or does it contribute to the ad revenue and people are wary of disrupting that? Its literally the MOST interesting thing about this CPU.JasonMZW20 - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Mostly because these systems ship with dGPUs. The iGPU in mobile Ryzen 6000 is a nice upgrade and simply demolishes anything Intel offers, currently.The mainstream 15-28W article should focus on iGPU, as these won't ship with dGPUs, usually. This is the meat of the market, and a good iGPU is critical to a good experience.
AMD's mobile strategy seems to be a quick-iterative design. Renoir and Cezanne were nearly on top of each other, as Cezanne came back from the fab just as Renoir shipped. So, with mobile Ryzen 6000/Rembrandt, AMD offers a new iGPU+(LP)DDR5 rather than new CPU cores, plus SoC optimizations overall.
The one thing that bothers me about the RDNA2 iGPU is that AMD disables an entire shader array in the 6600U instead of simply turning off 2 WGPs (4 CUs). So, there's a sharp performance drop between the two models and 6600U will be the primary volume seller, I think. 12 CUs to 6 CUs, instead of 12 -> 8 -> 6.
DannyH246 - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Honestly it’s been like this for a while now. Just go to the home page and count how many Intel marketing articles we’ve had over the last couple months. Now we get a half arsed joke of a review like this on AMD hardware. Obviously in Intel’s pocket.29a - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Typical half assed AMD article.DannyH246 - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Next headline article on www.IntelTech.com….Breaking news Intel CEO Gelsinger breaks wind.
Qasar - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
DannyH246 i see you cry about this all the time, if anandtech is that bad, WHY do you keep coming here ? is it just to whine and cry?? im sure you will just reply with some sort of BS, but it HAS been stated before, there are times when most articles are intel, and others are AMD, its just the way the cycles go.DannyH246 - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
For a laugh.Speedfriend - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
Seriously, how old are you?abufrejoval - Friday, March 4, 2022 - link
It's a slow season (for computers) so they have to spread it out some. The other pieces evidently have been prepared already as parting gifts by Ian.vegemeister - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
>Per-Thread Power/Clock Control: Rather than being per core, each thread can carry requirementsDoes that imply the core can change its voltage and clocking on the same timescale as switching SMT thread? I thought modern SMT was fine-grained enough that there are instructions from both threads in-flight at once.
Or is it just for simplifying the OS's cpufreq driver?
>For example, if a core is idle for a few seconds, would it be better to put in a sleep state?
A few hundred microseconds, surely?
Arnulf - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
"... following AMD’s cadence of naming its mobile processors after painters"As opposed to what, their desktop lineup naming (also named after painters)? Consumer processors are named after painters.
syxbit - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
>>While we haven’t touched battery life or graphics in this articlethat's pretty critical for a Laptop review.
I'm pretty tired of Intel reviews constantly covering their 12th gen superiority without talking about power. It's easy to beat a competitor if you just double the power budget. It's laughable that Intel is pretending they've caught up to Apple.
Oxford Guy - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
I am sure those producing the Steam handheld would like reviewers to not test battery life.ninjaquick - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
How fast do these chips perform vp9 4k decode? A major use case moving forward will be game streaming, and I'm struggling to find hardware acceleration numbers.dwillmore - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Error on page 3: "yCrundher" is a misspellingYukaKun - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
Writing this from a 5900HX (Asus G17 Strix) and upgrading from a i7 7700HQ that, I have to say is really efficient for what it is, the AMD laptop is just in another league of its own. Both have a 90Wh battery and the Intel, not even new, would break the 4h mark. This thing has as much usage as my tablets with normal usage. It's really impressive and, for the go stuff, it's so SO nice. Then you need to game and it just works. The 6800M is quite the beast in its own right. Sad this thing doesn't have a mux switch, but it still works amazingly well.This preamble was just to say, I'm surprised the 6000HK isn't a lot better, but I guess it's to be expected. On paper, the 6000 mobile series has a lot of potential with PCIe4 and slightly better process. DDR5 is too new IMO to show a definitive advantage on mobile, but maybe next gen will leap. I have DDR4L 3200 with my 5900HX and I put DDR4L 2666 to the i7 7700HQ, so DDR5L needs to be way faster than the crappy 4800 MT/s JEDEC spec we have currently.
Regards.
mode_13h - Tuesday, March 1, 2022 - link
> 3D Particle Movement v2.1> ...
> To keep things honest, AMD also has a copy of the code, but has not proposed any changes.
No, to keep things honest, you need to release the benchmark. All of your other benchmarks are publicly-available, but not this one.
Please open source it, or stop using it. Thanks.
isthisavailable - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
So there are no battery life and iGPU results in a mobile processor review...right.mode_13h - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
IMO, the article was long enough and had plenty to cover. I think it's not a problem, if those are reviewed separately, however it does make the overall comparison vs. Intel problematic.Anyway, we now know Ian was writing it on his way out the door, so that makes it at least understandable.
Stuka87 - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
I am awaiting the day where Ryzens become more widespread in workstation class laptops. Very few machines had them when I had to upgrade this past summer, so had to go Intel. Which has been a bit lack luster.PlanetLockdownFilm - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
Interesting read, buts seems like it depends on what offer you can find and what else the laptop has to give. RDNA2 is a plus though, if you're going for integrated graphics.WaltC - Wednesday, March 2, 2022 - link
I thought it was fairly interesting that although I looked for it, I could not find a description of the system used to supply the Intel numbers that were plugged into the charts used--if those specs are included and I missed them, then mea culpa. But if not, well, that's interesting...and I also found it very interesting that Intel was nowhere to be found/mentioned in the Performance Per Watt section...;)mode_13h - Thursday, March 3, 2022 - link
> I also found it very interesting that Intel was nowhere to be found/mentioned> in the Performance Per Watt section...;)
Exactly. What they did show was that Intel could/would scale up power consumption of its single-core performance higher than Zen 3+. What's not obvious is how much of Intel's performance advantage simply comes down to juicing their P-cores, at the expense of efficiency.
Dug - Friday, March 11, 2022 - link
I want to see how well each system does when not plugged in.m16 - Thursday, March 3, 2022 - link
Wow, I know what I'll be recommending for non desktop replacements.This specific laptop also perhaps helps a bit, that's how I'd expect other manufacturers to build their workhorses for decent cooling.
beginner99 - Friday, March 4, 2022 - link
Now AT isn't doing GPU tests on an APU. I mean really?tygrus - Tuesday, March 8, 2022 - link
I started typing a comment using Chrome browser on iPad (just like this). The page or adverts triggered a page refresh. Looses comment, gone… empty. Very annoying.mode_13h - Wednesday, March 9, 2022 - link
FWIW, I use Firefox on PC and never had such a problem.