ALL the processors should come with a basic GPU option. There are those of us who are enthusiasts but don't play games, we do exist, honest.
It'd be nice to buy a 5900x or even 5950x and have capable multiple-monitor output for web browsing, photo editing and youtubing. Sadly anyone buying AMD rigs has had to buy a GPU along with their CPU lately (and the models which do come with a GPU are weaker)
I believe all Zen3 mobile APUs (5600/5800/5900 HS / HX / H + 5600U + 5800U) all came with iGPUs, so there shouldn't be any changes. AMD's always added iGPUs to mobile CPUs.
//
Re: Zen3 desktop CPUs. I agree. The APU versions are often released much later and with somewhat worse clocks for whatever reason (e.g., 1T Boost | 5600G: 4.4 GHz , while 5600X: 4.6 GHz).
Intel does this one specific thing noticeably better: the F (non-iGPU) CPUs are cheaper, the exact same clocks (base, boost, TDP), and they're released concurrently with normal iGPU models.
The APUs use entirely different chips optimized for *both* performance and power-efficiency (rather than being skewed towards performance, like on desktop), since the vast majority of the APUs go to mobile.
Intel also has separate silicon for mobile and desktop; it's just that they include an iGPU in their desktop parts design as well.
While they are a nice-to-have, I'm of the opposite view, I was very glad they didn't put an iGPU in their latest and greatest CPUs when I built my 5950X rig in 2020, because it would have either ballooned the price or more likely, hurt performance of the Zen3 cores which is all my use-case cared about.
Intel has an iGPU in every CPU they sell pretty much to consumers, even non-GPU models have it disabled on the die, consuming a ton of space that could have gone to more cores or more cache or a more heat-efficient layout.
> consuming a ton of space that could have gone to more cores or more cache > or a more heat-efficient layout.
There was once a thought that more apps would harness the iGPU's superior compute power. Anyway, in recent desktop CPUs, the iGPU is a much smaller proportion of the die than in the Skylake generation. And games can still harness it for AI or physics, even if you have a dGPU.
I wish I knew, but I don't follow game development.
It'd be easy enough, though. I mean, if you can use the main GPU for those things, then the iGPU is just sitting there. And on low-end CPUs, the amount of benefit would be even greater.
> if you can use the main GPU for those things, then the iGPU is just sitting there.
What I meant is that it's probably in the same list of GPUs enumerated by the system. It's probably just a matter of writing a little code to search for GPUs other than the main one being used for rendering. Perhaps some games let the user manually specify.
Zen 4 desktop CPUs are rumoured to all feature iGPUs.
That said, obviously there's no need for all CPUs to come with graphics, as AMD has proven with its desktop line, and Intel followed by introducing 'F' CPUs. Even for people who don't need a GPU, adding an entry level GPU shouldn't be a real issue. Unless of course the GPU market goes bonkers, as it is now.
Agree, the next big chunk of Intel’s market share AMD needs to attack is corporate PC’s, and I think iGPU’s make a lot of sense there. You can seen them starting to improve other needed features such as centralized PC management.
So with Microsoft Pluton always online DRM, are users limited to boot only Microsoft sanctioned OSes and possibly lose access to their system when internet access is down? Hardware as a service is creeping in isn't it?
I love paying thousands of dollars for something that I have no control over it and I'm not allowed to make some changes to it. Take my money and my choice, big tech. Tech 'em both
get a clue what pluton is.... you either can have security or total freedom. TPM was once the end of all PC freedom when it was introduced. people with no knowledge wrote articles how it wll prevent you from playing downloaded videos etc. i use TPM for years and nothing of these scenarios came true.
when windows is vulnerable the people scream. when they bring security features the people scream.
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AbRASiON - Monday, January 3, 2022 - link
ALL the processors should come with a basic GPU option. There are those of us who are enthusiasts but don't play games, we do exist, honest.It'd be nice to buy a 5900x or even 5950x and have capable multiple-monitor output for web browsing, photo editing and youtubing. Sadly anyone buying AMD rigs has had to buy a GPU along with their CPU lately (and the models which do come with a GPU are weaker)
ikjadoon - Monday, January 3, 2022 - link
I believe all Zen3 mobile APUs (5600/5800/5900 HS / HX / H + 5600U + 5800U) all came with iGPUs, so there shouldn't be any changes. AMD's always added iGPUs to mobile CPUs.//
Re: Zen3 desktop CPUs. I agree. The APU versions are often released much later and with somewhat worse clocks for whatever reason (e.g., 1T Boost | 5600G: 4.4 GHz , while 5600X: 4.6 GHz).
Intel does this one specific thing noticeably better: the F (non-iGPU) CPUs are cheaper, the exact same clocks (base, boost, TDP), and they're released concurrently with normal iGPU models.
Hul8 - Monday, January 3, 2022 - link
"For whatever reason"?The APUs use entirely different chips optimized for *both* performance and power-efficiency (rather than being skewed towards performance, like on desktop), since the vast majority of the APUs go to mobile.
Intel also has separate silicon for mobile and desktop; it's just that they include an iGPU in their desktop parts design as well.
Duwelon - Monday, January 3, 2022 - link
While they are a nice-to-have, I'm of the opposite view, I was very glad they didn't put an iGPU in their latest and greatest CPUs when I built my 5950X rig in 2020, because it would have either ballooned the price or more likely, hurt performance of the Zen3 cores which is all my use-case cared about.Intel has an iGPU in every CPU they sell pretty much to consumers, even non-GPU models have it disabled on the die, consuming a ton of space that could have gone to more cores or more cache or a more heat-efficient layout.
mode_13h - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
> consuming a ton of space that could have gone to more cores or more cache> or a more heat-efficient layout.
There was once a thought that more apps would harness the iGPU's superior compute power. Anyway, in recent desktop CPUs, the iGPU is a much smaller proportion of the die than in the Skylake generation. And games can still harness it for AI or physics, even if you have a dGPU.
Duwelon - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
> And games can still harness it for AI or physics, even if you have a dGPUDoes any game actually do so though?
mode_13h - Wednesday, January 5, 2022 - link
I wish I knew, but I don't follow game development.It'd be easy enough, though. I mean, if you can use the main GPU for those things, then the iGPU is just sitting there. And on low-end CPUs, the amount of benefit would be even greater.
mode_13h - Wednesday, January 5, 2022 - link
> if you can use the main GPU for those things, then the iGPU is just sitting there.What I meant is that it's probably in the same list of GPUs enumerated by the system. It's probably just a matter of writing a little code to search for GPUs other than the main one being used for rendering. Perhaps some games let the user manually specify.
brucethemoose - Monday, January 3, 2022 - link
Normally, the cost of a low end dGPU should be trivial in such a system.ET - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
Zen 4 desktop CPUs are rumoured to all feature iGPUs.That said, obviously there's no need for all CPUs to come with graphics, as AMD has proven with its desktop line, and Intel followed by introducing 'F' CPUs. Even for people who don't need a GPU, adding an entry level GPU shouldn't be a real issue. Unless of course the GPU market goes bonkers, as it is now.
Amandtec - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
How many years of bonkers is it now? Bitcoin is 12 years old, I believe.flgt - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
Agree, the next big chunk of Intel’s market share AMD needs to attack is corporate PC’s, and I think iGPU’s make a lot of sense there. You can seen them starting to improve other needed features such as centralized PC management.uefi - Monday, January 3, 2022 - link
So with Microsoft Pluton always online DRM, are users limited to boot only Microsoft sanctioned OSes and possibly lose access to their system when internet access is down? Hardware as a service is creeping in isn't it?Karaqx - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
I love paying thousands of dollars for something that I have no control over it and I'm not allowed to make some changes to it.Take my money and my choice, big tech. Tech 'em both
Gothmoth - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
get a clue what pluton is.... you either can have security or total freedom.TPM was once the end of all PC freedom when it was introduced. people with no knowledge wrote articles how it wll prevent you from playing downloaded videos etc. i use TPM for years and nothing of these scenarios came true.
when windows is vulnerable the people scream. when they bring security features the people scream.
Amandtec - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
We need an abbreviation - Rootkit on a Chip = RkoC.lemurbutton - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
This is a pretty boring launch when Apple has the M series and will debut M2 at around the same time these new CPUs make it to laptops.AMD has to catch up to Intel before touching Apple.
arashi - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
Gondaft is this you?James5mith - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
"which has made AMD’s latest generation of discrete parts among the most competitive in generations."Lol
Competitive against 1 other competitor. They are still 2nd.
CrystalCowboy - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
I saw one article elsewhere claiming this chip was 6nm rather than 7nm. Can you verify or counter that? Thxtechjunkie123 - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
Yes, supposed to be 6 nm. Unclear if there are power/perf improvements in addition to an ~15% density increase. Official announcement will confirm.Slash3 - Tuesday, January 4, 2022 - link
"Notably, LPDDR5 isn’t explicitly mentioned alongside DDR5, but this is clearly a less-than-complete detailing of the chips’ architecture."Lenovo has effectively confirmed this with the spec sheet on their now-live Z13/Z16 product page.
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/thinkpadz/
"Memory Up to 32GB LPDDR5 (dual channel, soldered)"
Dfyntech - Monday, March 7, 2022 - link
India's most Popular brands are invests wholeheartedly in its Microsoft dynamics crm implementation in india. Being a good partner with microsoft dynamics crm implementation, we have done various crm projects and microsoft dynamics crm 365 implementation services in additional ordinary way.