maybe RTX3090+12900K will be under 1000W on sustained loads, but when it comes to transient loads, 1000W is unlikely to be enough. RTX3090 transient load spike is reported by seasonic to be upwards of 550W. If you want to leave a bit of headroom with a 12900K, you're probably looking at, at least, 1200W PSU.
And then we also have the RTX3090Tie incoming, which is even known to be more power hungry than RTX3090. So maybe 1500W will be the new 'norm' for high end gaming desktops.
How are you mixing transient loads with sustained loads? If transients are 550w according to you, how are the sustained loads 1k? The issue with transient loads is the spike/speed, and any decent 850w PSU will cover it. Problem is too many people have a little bit of information, but understand the whole picture. For a gaming there is no situation where the GPU, and 12900k will be under full load. You are either GPU, or CPU limited, and there are no games fully utilize 16 threads. That's why you can use power consumption (GPU+CPU) as measured by 3rd party sites, give yourself 100w of headroom, and can be fine with any decent PSU. The only people who had issues after that, were using cheap PSU's, or unit's with design, or QC issues, like those EVGA's a couple years back.
mGPU is not dead. The 3090 and up have NVLINK for a reason. You're talking like you're a gamer. Productive GPU users use mGPU all the time; even the 2019 Mac Pro has 1400W and optimized for mGPU rendering.
Note that all that happened in gaming is that Microsoft in a consumer-first move delegated mGPU mode to game software engineers instead of allowing Nvidia, AMD, or any new player like Intel from dominating mGPU rendering in games by the means of drivers.
DX12 mGPU even allows you to use iGPU and dGPUs together, pool the memory of multiple GPUs, and use GPUs from different vendors together.
Game developers haven't elected to leverage it; that said, a single GPU could do 4K@60hz which was last gen's optimal target being the max for HDMI 2.0 for the highest tier consoles; gaming is a console-oriented business.
With current-gen consoles and HDMI 2.1, it can be more feasible again to pursue mGPU gaming support by game developers to accommodate 4K@120hz which will be the standard for the highest end version of PS5 (PS5 Pro) and Series X (who knows what that will be called).
I will emphasize SLI is dead because it's deliberately replaced by DX12 mGPU mode which makes much more sense–especially now that Intel is also making dGPUs.
It should stay dead because it's 2022. Current gen games should be permanently making the transition to DX12 and Vulkan that both support DX12 mGPU mode.
Multi GPU for compute is not dead, PS. some people try to not fully saturate their PSU, this keeps their PSU cool, lengthen it's life time, and maybe even give it more efficiency.
I have multiple machines running 3090s with 12900Ks and a few with Ryzen 5900x's and 3080s. And all the machines use 650 or 700 watt PSU's and have had zero issues even with multi week sustained rendering loads on both the cpu and gpu. People need to stop fear-mongering about transient loads when it isn't a problem.
The single 3090ti needs minimum of 1000w power supply... So yeah it is "useful" even with one GPU... though 3090ti is extremely expensive (as all Nvidia new versions of 3000 series) and not much faster than normal 3090... But that 1000w requirements is real, so if you oc also you cpu... 1500w is not overkill... if you have newer $6000-7000 to buy PC of that scale.
RTX 40 and RDNA3 top end cards are expected to be exceptionally power hungry.
In particular, because RNDA3 is expected to use chiplets to significantly increase its processing power, and nVidia's won't be ready yet, nVidia is expected to respond by running their top cards very far past their power/performance sweet spot. Rumors are the 4090 may require two of the nVidia 12 pin power connectors.
Of course, there is a limit to what they can actually do. While people say they won't mind a 450W-500W GPU if it performs, the heat load is going to be... interesting... to say the least.
1.Most PSU have peak efficiency at 50% load. 2. Heat: when you have huge PSU that runs below its max power it will never get hot nor turn on the fan, im running Digital 1200W PSU myself so it only spins the fun when it gets to high load like 600-700W 3. People still but Threadrippers [and soon Intel HEDT] and build home Servers 4. People that mine
Workstations can still have multiple gpu's and mining rigs as well. Also the coming rtx4090 is rumored to consume 600watts. So a 1.5kw psu will ideally be loaded between 50-75% continuously so that's quite suitable.
Well, if you don't like the fan curve, then get a lower power PSU, because these >1200W PSUs are all like that. There's just a physical limitation with current technology used in PSUs.
40dB of noise inside an "under-the-desk" case seems extravagantly quiet. It is comparable to an RTX 3080Ti, and lower than the AMD Wraith at max. Maybe you looked at "hot = 45 Celsius = 113 Fahrenheit" levels? 52 decibels is indeed the level of sound of a headphone.
Also, I don't know where you got that 52dB is the sound of a headphone, but you're wrong. Headphones frequently get up to around 130dB (obviously very unsafe) and so artificial safety limits to 85dB and/or 100dB are often implemented.
considering that they already have 2 transformers why not make it into a 750+ 750W power supply. They already have capacitors that provide a hold up for 1500 watts. that would give higher efficiency for part load.
You mean the market where more and more people are using power-hungry GPUs for computation? And the market where CPUs' power limits keep getting higher and higher?
How is that strange? Plenty of people run 2+ GPUs with high core count CPUs. I agree that this PSU probably has no place in a gaming build, but gamers are not most of the market.
Isn't it a terrible idea to invest into a high end PSU right now - considering that ATX 5.0 spec calls for a 16pin PCIEX power connector for the upcoming generation of GPUs..
12+4sense pins that will allow the PSU to handle 3x the rated GPU max power draw spikes. So 1800watts for a 600watts top of the line RTX 4000.
Unfortunately I already bought a $300 Seasonic TX-1000 PSU for my 10th gen and 3090 build. I hope it lasts me long time, I do not plan to get any new GPUs since games are not worth at all nowadays due to political aspects and poor quality with no passion. But it would have been nice if the PSU supports the next gen GPUs for the high refresh rate gaming in the future, which are going to be 500-600W TDP with insane spikes demanding a new PSU over 1200W.
This one got that 12 Pin connectors which is a massive improvement over existing PSUs by a huge factor. But looks like they did not include the 4 pins for sensing the load. ASUS Loki and Thor PSUs are having that, also I think Corsair might as well release a damn 2000W PSU. Since SLI is dead I really do not think the market would be great for these so they will be super expensive. Also I think by 2023 CES we will definitely have a completely new wave of PSUs with new PCIe connectors and more features, I hope there is a PSU with 1200+W capability and completely passive. I would pay top dollar if that exists.
Upcoming Zen 4 / Raptor Lake - DDR5 new ICs, PCIe5.0 boards with more I/O like M.2 slots with new PCIe and then new GPUs with more than 500W TDP this will become uber expensive. On top we have a huge crunch of GPUs since 24+ months, the market will have to adopt once the Crypto crashes or mining fades.
"Although it meets the 80Plus Titanium certification requirements while the unit is powered from a 115 VAC source, it does so only only barely, with an average nominal load range (20% to 100% of the unit's capacity) efficiency of just 92.3%. When powered from a 230 VAC source, in our testing the Dark Power Pro 12 1500W PSU does not even get near the 80Plus Titanium certification requirements."
This statement looks incorrect / inverted. The graph presented would suggest that higher efficiency is gained when running at 230VAC as per usual with most PSUs?
The 80 Plus standards have higher efficiency requirements at 230v than 115v, owing to the fact that DC-DC switching is more efficient at higher voltages.
For 80 Plus Titanium, for example, you need 96% efficiency at a 50% load for 230v, versus 94% efficiency for 115v. It's a difference of just 2 percentage points, but that's a 50% increase in allowed energy losses.
So as it happens here, you can just barely meet the looser 115v standards, but fail to meet the tighter 230v standards.
I see, thanks for the clarification. With that in mind the statement is still incorrect. It doesn't reach 80 Plus Titanium's 94% efficiency at 50% 115VAC only 93%. I think that's where my confusions stemmed.
For easier comprehension in future, it might be nice to have the efficiency points (10,20,50,100%) for the claimed rating on the same graph.
I wonder when we will be able to see the first round of PCIe 5.0 PSU reviews.
What about the 12V0 standard? will these also have this or this one will take longer time duo to incompatibility with the current standard (unless they're using a doughter-PSU).
I understand the love for the venerable AX1600i that a reviewer who received a test unit directly from Corsair would have for it. By those numbers, it is no doubt the best that's out there.
What those of us in the high performance desktop compute niche have seen, however, is that Corsair sends golden samples to reviewers and the retail units don't live up to even Corsair's stated output claims. In practice, the AX1600i is only a 1400W PSU at best and will usually power cycle at loads as low as 1450W. Changing over to a 1600W EVGA unit almost always solves the mystery resets for folks who want to run more than ~1100W of GPU (4xA6000 will typically trip a retail AX1600i after a few minutes).
I'm curious what we will see from retail Dark Power Pro units. If they are as good as the sponsored review units, then they might actually be a valid alternative to the AX1600i despite the lower marketing specs.
I can see a need for this kind of PSU - my own experience with a Corsair AX760 and a Corsair HX1200 were that they could not handle the spikes from a 3090 plus 16 core Skylake-X CPU. It's true you don't (usually) get sustained loads on both GPU and CPU, but when both were stressed at the same time it would trigger OCP with a nasty black screen restart.
AX1600i was the RMA replacement and that works very well, albeit it has a slightly annoying fan balancing cycle on startup. There are probably lower powered PSUs that are less enthusiastic at triggering OCP, but my experience of Corsair PSUs with a 3090 is that you need a lot more headroom than you might think.
1500 watts is dead close to the 1800 watts max of a 15a outlet if you account for efficiency loss. With that said, I've seen 200-300 watt computers have power issues from a seeming good outlet ;-)
I "only" have a 850 watt PC Power & Cooling PSU (can output 850 watts under 80 gold) but I've made sure that my outlet was in good condition by simply checking for a warm cable from the wall. But also with a kill-a-watt to watch for voltage drop. A bad/poor connection WILL cause a squeezing point where the power has to jump though a small contact patch where it causes heat. I see it all the time in the businesses I do work in, hot cables running machines that have issues. Sometimes so hot the outlet starts to melt! Simple correction was to replace the outlet and plug and BOOM! no boom lol.
Point is, the power cable shouldn't be getting "hot".. although luke warm seems to be ok at max 1800 watt load. When pulling that much power to sensitive equipment you WILL see differences from different outlets EVEN if all of them are new, installed by a professional. Then there's also the health/quality of the transformers on your street and termination in your home lol
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The ac compressor is a vital part of the ac unit. If the ac relay goes out, then it won’t be able to function at all. The ac relay gives power to the ac compressor, and without that power, the ac unit will not work correctly.<a href="https://technumus.com/how-to-fix-a-stuck-relay-on-... to fix a stuck relay on ac unit</a>
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Speed-o - Monday, January 10, 2022 - link
Given that SLI is basically dead, what's the primary market for a 1500W PSU these days?The 3090 is a total porker. But even that and a 12900K is below 1000 watts, isn't it?
meacupla - Monday, January 10, 2022 - link
maybe RTX3090+12900K will be under 1000W on sustained loads, but when it comes to transient loads, 1000W is unlikely to be enough.RTX3090 transient load spike is reported by seasonic to be upwards of 550W. If you want to leave a bit of headroom with a 12900K, you're probably looking at, at least, 1200W PSU.
And then we also have the RTX3090Tie incoming, which is even known to be more power hungry than RTX3090. So maybe 1500W will be the new 'norm' for high end gaming desktops.
austinsguitar - Monday, January 10, 2022 - link
usually a 1200w psu has an ocp of up to 1500w or so. how they deal with that is different, but 1200w will still probably be the maximum needed.Showtime - Friday, January 14, 2022 - link
How are you mixing transient loads with sustained loads? If transients are 550w according to you, how are the sustained loads 1k? The issue with transient loads is the spike/speed, and any decent 850w PSU will cover it. Problem is too many people have a little bit of information, but understand the whole picture. For a gaming there is no situation where the GPU, and 12900k will be under full load. You are either GPU, or CPU limited, and there are no games fully utilize 16 threads. That's why you can use power consumption (GPU+CPU) as measured by 3rd party sites, give yourself 100w of headroom, and can be fine with any decent PSU. The only people who had issues after that, were using cheap PSU's, or unit's with design, or QC issues, like those EVGA's a couple years back.satai - Tuesday, January 11, 2022 - link
SLI may be dead but multiple GPUs for computation are not dead.shabby - Tuesday, January 11, 2022 - link
Or mining...lilkwarrior - Wednesday, January 12, 2022 - link
mGPU is not dead. The 3090 and up have NVLINK for a reason. You're talking like you're a gamer. Productive GPU users use mGPU all the time; even the 2019 Mac Pro has 1400W and optimized for mGPU rendering.lilkwarrior - Wednesday, January 12, 2022 - link
Note that all that happened in gaming is that Microsoft in a consumer-first move delegated mGPU mode to game software engineers instead of allowing Nvidia, AMD, or any new player like Intel from dominating mGPU rendering in games by the means of drivers.DX12 mGPU even allows you to use iGPU and dGPUs together, pool the memory of multiple GPUs, and use GPUs from different vendors together.
Game developers haven't elected to leverage it; that said, a single GPU could do 4K@60hz which was last gen's optimal target being the max for HDMI 2.0 for the highest tier consoles; gaming is a console-oriented business.
With current-gen consoles and HDMI 2.1, it can be more feasible again to pursue mGPU gaming support by game developers to accommodate 4K@120hz which will be the standard for the highest end version of PS5 (PS5 Pro) and Series X (who knows what that will be called).
lilkwarrior - Wednesday, January 12, 2022 - link
I will emphasize SLI is dead because it's deliberately replaced by DX12 mGPU mode which makes much more sense–especially now that Intel is also making dGPUs.It should stay dead because it's 2022. Current gen games should be permanently making the transition to DX12 and Vulkan that both support DX12 mGPU mode.
Xajel - Thursday, January 13, 2022 - link
Multi GPU for compute is not dead, PS. some people try to not fully saturate their PSU, this keeps their PSU cool, lengthen it's life time, and maybe even give it more efficiency.SirDragonClaw - Thursday, January 13, 2022 - link
I have multiple machines running 3090s with 12900Ks and a few with Ryzen 5900x's and 3080s. And all the machines use 650 or 700 watt PSU's and have had zero issues even with multi week sustained rendering loads on both the cpu and gpu. People need to stop fear-mongering about transient loads when it isn't a problem.haukionkannel - Monday, January 17, 2022 - link
The single 3090ti needs minimum of 1000w power supply... So yeah it is "useful" even with one GPU... though 3090ti is extremely expensive (as all Nvidia new versions of 3000 series) and not much faster than normal 3090... But that 1000w requirements is real, so if you oc also you cpu... 1500w is not overkill... if you have newer $6000-7000 to buy PC of that scale.icedeocampo - Tuesday, January 18, 2022 - link
Mining is one.And also for those who load their machines all of the time - they'd want it to be at the most efficient load for the PSUs which around 50% or so.
HarryVoyager - Monday, January 31, 2022 - link
RTX 40 and RDNA3 top end cards are expected to be exceptionally power hungry.In particular, because RNDA3 is expected to use chiplets to significantly increase its processing power, and nVidia's won't be ready yet, nVidia is expected to respond by running their top cards very far past their power/performance sweet spot. Rumors are the 4090 may require two of the nVidia 12 pin power connectors.
Of course, there is a limit to what they can actually do. While people say they won't mind a 450W-500W GPU if it performs, the heat load is going to be... interesting... to say the least.
Mr.Vegas - Monday, February 7, 2022 - link
1.Most PSU have peak efficiency at 50% load.2. Heat: when you have huge PSU that runs below its max power it will never get hot nor turn on the fan, im running Digital 1200W PSU myself so it only spins the fun when it gets to high load like 600-700W
3. People still but Threadrippers [and soon Intel HEDT] and build home Servers
4. People that mine
Belldandy - Monday, January 10, 2022 - link
Workstations can still have multiple gpu's and mining rigs as well.Also the coming rtx4090 is rumored to consume 600watts. So a 1.5kw psu will ideally be loaded between 50-75% continuously so that's quite suitable.
austinsguitar - Monday, January 10, 2022 - link
vary disappointing temperature/noise performance honestly. This is a pass imo.meacupla - Monday, January 10, 2022 - link
afaik, this temperature/fan speed curve is pretty normal on >1200W PSUsaustinsguitar - Monday, January 10, 2022 - link
idk man. 40db at 1200watts sounds pretty ehh to me.meacupla - Wednesday, January 12, 2022 - link
Well, if you don't like the fan curve, then get a lower power PSU, because these >1200W PSUs are all like that. There's just a physical limitation with current technology used in PSUs.Calin - Tuesday, January 11, 2022 - link
40dB of noise inside an "under-the-desk" case seems extravagantly quiet. It is comparable to an RTX 3080Ti, and lower than the AMD Wraith at max.Maybe you looked at "hot = 45 Celsius = 113 Fahrenheit" levels? 52 decibels is indeed the level of sound of a headphone.
dqniel - Wednesday, January 12, 2022 - link
42+ dB at one meter away is absolutely not "extravagantly quiet". It's quite loud if you're after a silent computer build.dqniel - Wednesday, January 12, 2022 - link
Also, I don't know where you got that 52dB is the sound of a headphone, but you're wrong. Headphones frequently get up to around 130dB (obviously very unsafe) and so artificial safety limits to 85dB and/or 100dB are often implemented.drajitshnew - Tuesday, January 11, 2022 - link
considering that they already have 2 transformers why not make it into a 750+ 750W power supply. They already have capacitors that provide a hold up for 1500 watts.that would give higher efficiency for part load.
The_Assimilator - Tuesday, January 11, 2022 - link
Very strange decision to design and produce a 1kW+ PSU in today's market.dqniel - Wednesday, January 12, 2022 - link
You mean the market where more and more people are using power-hungry GPUs for computation? And the market where CPUs' power limits keep getting higher and higher?firefoxx04 - Friday, January 14, 2022 - link
How is that strange? Plenty of people run 2+ GPUs with high core count CPUs. I agree that this PSU probably has no place in a gaming build, but gamers are not most of the market.Cellar Door - Tuesday, January 11, 2022 - link
Isn't it a terrible idea to invest into a high end PSU right now - considering that ATX 5.0 spec calls for a 16pin PCIEX power connector for the upcoming generation of GPUs..12+4sense pins that will allow the PSU to handle 3x the rated GPU max power draw spikes. So 1800watts for a 600watts top of the line RTX 4000.
Oxford Guy - Wednesday, January 12, 2022 - link
Having an ATX 5 spec is a terrible idea.Let’s stick with tiny GPU fans that blast a case full of hot air going the wrong direction.
Genius!
Bobsy - Tuesday, January 11, 2022 - link
Another excellent review from Fyll! Cheers!zodiacfml - Tuesday, January 11, 2022 - link
industry should be recycling used server power supplies which can easily perform as good.Silver5urfer - Wednesday, January 12, 2022 - link
Thanks for this review.Unfortunately I already bought a $300 Seasonic TX-1000 PSU for my 10th gen and 3090 build. I hope it lasts me long time, I do not plan to get any new GPUs since games are not worth at all nowadays due to political aspects and poor quality with no passion. But it would have been nice if the PSU supports the next gen GPUs for the high refresh rate gaming in the future, which are going to be 500-600W TDP with insane spikes demanding a new PSU over 1200W.
This one got that 12 Pin connectors which is a massive improvement over existing PSUs by a huge factor. But looks like they did not include the 4 pins for sensing the load. ASUS Loki and Thor PSUs are having that, also I think Corsair might as well release a damn 2000W PSU. Since SLI is dead I really do not think the market would be great for these so they will be super expensive. Also I think by 2023 CES we will definitely have a completely new wave of PSUs with new PCIe connectors and more features, I hope there is a PSU with 1200+W capability and completely passive. I would pay top dollar if that exists.
Upcoming Zen 4 / Raptor Lake - DDR5 new ICs, PCIe5.0 boards with more I/O like M.2 slots with new PCIe and then new GPUs with more than 500W TDP this will become uber expensive. On top we have a huge crunch of GPUs since 24+ months, the market will have to adopt once the Crypto crashes or mining fades.
bunkle - Wednesday, January 12, 2022 - link
"Although it meets the 80Plus Titanium certification requirements while the unit is powered from a 115 VAC source, it does so only only barely, with an average nominal load range (20% to 100% of the unit's capacity) efficiency of just 92.3%. When powered from a 230 VAC source, in our testing the Dark Power Pro 12 1500W PSU does not even get near the 80Plus Titanium certification requirements."This statement looks incorrect / inverted. The graph presented would suggest that higher efficiency is gained when running at 230VAC as per usual with most PSUs?
Ryan Smith - Thursday, January 13, 2022 - link
The 80 Plus standards have higher efficiency requirements at 230v than 115v, owing to the fact that DC-DC switching is more efficient at higher voltages.For 80 Plus Titanium, for example, you need 96% efficiency at a 50% load for 230v, versus 94% efficiency for 115v. It's a difference of just 2 percentage points, but that's a 50% increase in allowed energy losses.
So as it happens here, you can just barely meet the looser 115v standards, but fail to meet the tighter 230v standards.
bunkle - Tuesday, January 18, 2022 - link
I see, thanks for the clarification. With that in mind the statement is still incorrect. It doesn't reach 80 Plus Titanium's 94% efficiency at 50% 115VAC only 93%. I think that's where my confusions stemmed.For easier comprehension in future, it might be nice to have the efficiency points (10,20,50,100%) for the claimed rating on the same graph.
Xajel - Thursday, January 13, 2022 - link
I wonder when we will be able to see the first round of PCIe 5.0 PSU reviews.What about the 12V0 standard? will these also have this or this one will take longer time duo to incompatibility with the current standard (unless they're using a doughter-PSU).
RNDRer - Friday, January 14, 2022 - link
I understand the love for the venerable AX1600i that a reviewer who received a test unit directly from Corsair would have for it. By those numbers, it is no doubt the best that's out there.What those of us in the high performance desktop compute niche have seen, however, is that Corsair sends golden samples to reviewers and the retail units don't live up to even Corsair's stated output claims. In practice, the AX1600i is only a 1400W PSU at best and will usually power cycle at loads as low as 1450W. Changing over to a 1600W EVGA unit almost always solves the mystery resets for folks who want to run more than ~1100W of GPU (4xA6000 will typically trip a retail AX1600i after a few minutes).
I'm curious what we will see from retail Dark Power Pro units. If they are as good as the sponsored review units, then they might actually be a valid alternative to the AX1600i despite the lower marketing specs.
playtech1 - Tuesday, January 18, 2022 - link
I can see a need for this kind of PSU - my own experience with a Corsair AX760 and a Corsair HX1200 were that they could not handle the spikes from a 3090 plus 16 core Skylake-X CPU. It's true you don't (usually) get sustained loads on both GPU and CPU, but when both were stressed at the same time it would trigger OCP with a nasty black screen restart.AX1600i was the RMA replacement and that works very well, albeit it has a slightly annoying fan balancing cycle on startup. There are probably lower powered PSUs that are less enthusiastic at triggering OCP, but my experience of Corsair PSUs with a 3090 is that you need a lot more headroom than you might think.
NeatOman - Wednesday, February 9, 2022 - link
1500 watts is dead close to the 1800 watts max of a 15a outlet if you account for efficiency loss. With that said, I've seen 200-300 watt computers have power issues from a seeming good outlet ;-)I "only" have a 850 watt PC Power & Cooling PSU (can output 850 watts under 80 gold) but I've made sure that my outlet was in good condition by simply checking for a warm cable from the wall. But also with a kill-a-watt to watch for voltage drop. A bad/poor connection WILL cause a squeezing point where the power has to jump though a small contact patch where it causes heat. I see it all the time in the businesses I do work in, hot cables running machines that have issues. Sometimes so hot the outlet starts to melt! Simple correction was to replace the outlet and plug and BOOM! no boom lol.
Point is, the power cable shouldn't be getting "hot".. although luke warm seems to be ok at max 1800 watt load. When pulling that much power to sensitive equipment you WILL see differences from different outlets EVEN if all of them are new, installed by a professional. Then there's also the health/quality of the transformers on your street and termination in your home lol
Dfyntech - Monday, March 7, 2022 - link
India's most Popular brands are invests wholeheartedly in its Microsoft dynamics crm implementation in india. Being a good partner with microsoft dynamics crm implementation, we have done various crm projects and microsoft dynamics <a href="https://dfyntech.com/microsoft-dynamics-crm/"... crm companies in india.</a> in additional ordinary way.johanwilliam - Tuesday, March 8, 2022 - link
The ac compressor is a vital part of the ac unit. If the ac relay goes out, then it won’t be able to function at all. The ac relay gives power to the ac compressor, and without that power, the ac unit will not work correctly.<a href="https://technumus.com/how-to-fix-a-stuck-relay-on-... to fix a stuck relay on ac unit</a>