Likely it is, still their server revenue is up y/y. IMO AMD is selling a lot of GPUs for compute (Enterprise voice), and custom silicon for consoles. Main reason Intel is pumping massively on GPUs, real AMD bread and butter right now. Amd is pretty silent about real numbers of cpu consumer (and server). Once Intel will ship Server Cpus and compute GPUs in bundle, the things will change dramatically. Same applies to GPUs consumer.
The last time Intel was in the GPU market, it wasn't even profitable. Remember how many graphics accelerator companies there were that folded? 3Dfx, S3, Matrox (I guess technically still around,) Imagination/PowerVR, Rendition, I'm sure I'm forgetting someone but the point is they are all gone. PowerVR lives in through Qualcomm, and nVidia gobbled 3Dfx after some really shady legal strongarming (the same strategy Creative Labs used to take down Aureal - financial abuse) but Intel really didn't care at the time to enter a market so insignificant compared to their other thriving sectors.
To say Intel didn't enter the GPU market is also untrue. Intel has by all accounts made more GPU's than any company in history - through chipsets and iGPUs. Those were still profitable because they helped sell chips for a lower price than using a discrete GPU.
But the reason you see Intel interested now isn't necessarily because it will be profitable (and it will be if they make a competitive product) but because the machine learning capabilities of GPU architecture vastly outweigh the capabilities of their CPU's, and that is becoming important for data center efficiency. Much like nVidia, Intel is entering the market with a low-end product targeted at gaming that they will inevitably scale up.
Raja Koduri was at S3, then ATI, then ATI got bought out by AMD, then he went to Apple, and then back to AMD, then to Intel. He's the ultimate guru of GPUs and now he has an unlimited budget at Intel. He's been beating the drum of Compute the entire time. His hiring is a signal that Intel is now serious about high end GPU compute, which makes sense since Intel is reasserting itself in datacenter as it is seriously behind Nvidia and AMD in the accelerator business, which has become a pretty big thing now.
It would be interesting to see the latest market share data. Intel is big, but AMD growing revenue $300M-$400M every quarter has got to hurt. Even in the middle of chip armageddon Intel posted a Q/Q decline in revenue.
Why? Intel grows NET INCOME from 5.1B to 6.8B this Q. You talk revenue. I talk NET INCOME.
You are impressed by revenue, which can be sold at a loss. I'm impressed by NET INCOME, which means at the end of the day, after you took out all expenses (normal for biz anyway), you still had 6.8B left vs. less than 1B AMD. That is MASSIVE NET IN COME GROWTH right? I mean Intel raised NET INCOME, NOT revenue, MORE than you raised revenue, BY FAR.
You do know the difference between revenue and NET INCOME, right? IF you sell 500B of revenue, but sell them at a 10% loss, you are losing 50B to sell 500B worth of crap. This is the exact opposite of what you are supposed to do it business.
Point is, it's important to make NET INCOME on your revenue to support R&D, growth, employee retention, etc etc. Intel growing NET INCOME while revenue not so much. AMD growing revenue, while net, not so much. I'd rather be Intel with 6.8B to just buy all your wafers for the year and see who wins. Even as a one time JOKE on AMD, it would be devastating to AMD. Right?
Again, AMD grew revenue ~1/2B, Intel grew NET INCOME 1.7B in a Q. They GREW NET INCOME almost 2x what AMD actually MADE to begin with for net...Is this coming out in chinese people? Intel revenue decline, but NET BLOWS UP. Some must be gpus now selling for income form TSMC. That was always going to add revenue as they own ZERO of discrete, so any wafer stolen at 6nm vs. 7nm AMD/NV8nm should do fine stealing sales and making some cash on stuff you NEVER usually make. So steal wafers add NET INCOME. NICE work. AMD...bah..
Worry more about the NET INCOME than revenue (not always, but it's the BOTTOM LINE for a reason).
It isn't that simple. You can net zero income while spamming R&D on the expense line (remember Amazon?). Or you can stop all R&D and report bloated net income, in the short term, probably before a death spiral.
AMD more than doubled operating (and net) income. For a mature industry that's a scary trajectory to any direct competitor. Keep in mind AMD is fabless. Intel has the revenue/income of its integrated fab operations, and we know fabs are doing great. A proper comparison of market influence would necessarily include both AMD and a part of TSMC and Global Foundries, or exclude the part of Intel that is fabs.
But all us geeks know AMD chips have been on the upswing versus some years of Intel stagnation. The numbers are just late to report the news.
No not always, you can easily grow net income by stopping investment in development, short term you will increase net income but it will hurt you in a few years. Looking only at net income is shortsighted and does not tell the whole story.
So many Catalysts for AMD...they are hitting full stride. Looking forward to the future with them, both as a shareholder since 2013 and a PC Enthusiast! Go Lisa and team!
Q's getting better, but still not Q4 2009 1b+ NET INCOME. Which means, IMHO, too many consoles that make single digit to mid teen margins, instead of more EPYC or HEDT etc chips that make mass MARGIN and sell for thousands EACH (and make thousands each in many cases).
Stop making consoles, and you'll start hitting 1B+ NET INCOME Q's right and left. In a wafer shortage you don't make celerons or console socs etc. You make stuff that makes the MOST margin. That is why Intel made 6.8B this Q vs. 5.1B last Q. That is NET INCOME people. They made 7x AMD NET...Yeah, AMD is winning...I swear... /s I said they had about a year left, you're seeing it. Mkap 3/4 of Intel, yet NET 1/7'th. See the problem here? Never mind assets, shares outstanding, etc etc. Macrotrends.net if you don't own your own trade account somewhere (15yrs of data). Not saying AMD isn't going in the right direction, but 3/4 the mkap of Intel. Are they making 5B a Q NET INCOME? NO, not even 1B NET yet, not since 2009 Q4. Just saying people, I'd rather be in a company that looks to be making ~22B net this year vs. AMD trying to get to 3B NET (one time tax breaks don't count, so 1.3B out)?
Hey it’s Jian. Why don’t you compare Intel’s revenue to that of Apple? Do you know Apple is making better systems with their own designs after skipping Intel’s chips. Why not Intel follow Apple and come up with their own devices? Intel’s stock has performed really well in the last 10 years as well right?
yep, another anti amd rant by thejian. what else is new ? only seems to post on here when intel and amd's earnings reports are announced. praise intel, bash amd, some old bs
You do know Q4 2009 for AMD included a $1.24 billion court settlement from Intel? Net income includes taxes and special items. Operating income doesn't. So operating income is just more reliable in gauging a company's trend. In 2009 AMD wasn't doing so hot - slight negative op income.
He does know that, he's just hoping nobody else notices why he cherry-picked that one date, because otherwise it rips the bottom out of his bullshit narratives.
It's a good thing TheJian is just a day trader, because if he actually worked in one of these big corps he wouldn't last long. The corporate lawyers' heads would explode, after listening to him for even 5 minutes.
Spelling and grammar corrections: "To that they, they are reiterating that it remains on-track to close by the end of this year." Too many "they" try: "In answer to that, they are reiterating that it remains on-track to close by the end of this year."
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hallstein - Tuesday, October 26, 2021 - link
Fantastic news, a strong AMD is good for everyone.Not mentioning how Intel’s still trying to play the line that demand is soft in servers, that took some restraint!
Gondalf - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
Likely it is, still their server revenue is up y/y.IMO AMD is selling a lot of GPUs for compute (Enterprise voice), and custom silicon for consoles.
Main reason Intel is pumping massively on GPUs, real AMD bread and butter right now.
Amd is pretty silent about real numbers of cpu consumer (and server).
Once Intel will ship Server Cpus and compute GPUs in bundle, the things will change dramatically.
Same applies to GPUs consumer.
Oxford Guy - Friday, October 29, 2021 - link
Overpriced GPUs crafted for miners.Consoles crafted to keep GPUs overpriced.
Yeah... fantastic — for someone who is keen on mocking PC gaming.
heickelrrx - Tuesday, October 26, 2021 - link
Selling dumb priced video card really have a good revenuego figure
Gondalf - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
Wonder why Intel will be in the GPU business next year ??Qasar - Thursday, October 28, 2021 - link
cause they have failed in this market before, and are trying again ?Oxford Guy - Friday, October 29, 2021 - link
Hard to succeed when one doesn't really make an effort.Thankfully, Intel has chosen to use the most constrained supplier for its GPUs — to keep AMD/Sony/MS' 'console' business going strong.
Samus - Friday, October 29, 2021 - link
The last time Intel was in the GPU market, it wasn't even profitable. Remember how many graphics accelerator companies there were that folded? 3Dfx, S3, Matrox (I guess technically still around,) Imagination/PowerVR, Rendition, I'm sure I'm forgetting someone but the point is they are all gone. PowerVR lives in through Qualcomm, and nVidia gobbled 3Dfx after some really shady legal strongarming (the same strategy Creative Labs used to take down Aureal - financial abuse) but Intel really didn't care at the time to enter a market so insignificant compared to their other thriving sectors.To say Intel didn't enter the GPU market is also untrue. Intel has by all accounts made more GPU's than any company in history - through chipsets and iGPUs. Those were still profitable because they helped sell chips for a lower price than using a discrete GPU.
But the reason you see Intel interested now isn't necessarily because it will be profitable (and it will be if they make a competitive product) but because the machine learning capabilities of GPU architecture vastly outweigh the capabilities of their CPU's, and that is becoming important for data center efficiency. Much like nVidia, Intel is entering the market with a low-end product targeted at gaming that they will inevitably scale up.
Oxford Guy - Sunday, October 31, 2021 - link
'it wasn't even profitable'ATI and Nvidia went under?
Oxford Guy - Sunday, October 31, 2021 - link
The video game business is a lot bigger these days, too.Lord of the Bored - Wednesday, November 3, 2021 - link
I mean, ATI did.But at least they were eaten by someone that wanted to continue the business, unlike everyone else.
It is noteworthy that nVidia alone survived the 3D accelerator wars.
EasyListening - Thursday, November 4, 2021 - link
Raja Koduri was at S3, then ATI, then ATI got bought out by AMD, then he went to Apple, and then back to AMD, then to Intel. He's the ultimate guru of GPUs and now he has an unlimited budget at Intel. He's been beating the drum of Compute the entire time. His hiring is a signal that Intel is now serious about high end GPU compute, which makes sense since Intel is reasserting itself in datacenter as it is seriously behind Nvidia and AMD in the accelerator business, which has become a pretty big thing now.flgt - Tuesday, October 26, 2021 - link
It would be interesting to see the latest market share data. Intel is big, but AMD growing revenue $300M-$400M every quarter has got to hurt. Even in the middle of chip armageddon Intel posted a Q/Q decline in revenue.TheJian - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
Why? Intel grows NET INCOME from 5.1B to 6.8B this Q. You talk revenue. I talk NET INCOME.You are impressed by revenue, which can be sold at a loss. I'm impressed by NET INCOME, which means at the end of the day, after you took out all expenses (normal for biz anyway), you still had 6.8B left vs. less than 1B AMD. That is MASSIVE NET IN COME GROWTH right? I mean Intel raised NET INCOME, NOT revenue, MORE than you raised revenue, BY FAR.
You do know the difference between revenue and NET INCOME, right? IF you sell 500B of revenue, but sell them at a 10% loss, you are losing 50B to sell 500B worth of crap. This is the exact opposite of what you are supposed to do it business.
Point is, it's important to make NET INCOME on your revenue to support R&D, growth, employee retention, etc etc. Intel growing NET INCOME while revenue not so much. AMD growing revenue, while net, not so much. I'd rather be Intel with 6.8B to just buy all your wafers for the year and see who wins. Even as a one time JOKE on AMD, it would be devastating to AMD. Right?
Again, AMD grew revenue ~1/2B, Intel grew NET INCOME 1.7B in a Q. They GREW NET INCOME almost 2x what AMD actually MADE to begin with for net...Is this coming out in chinese people? Intel revenue decline, but NET BLOWS UP. Some must be gpus now selling for income form TSMC. That was always going to add revenue as they own ZERO of discrete, so any wafer stolen at 6nm vs. 7nm AMD/NV8nm should do fine stealing sales and making some cash on stuff you NEVER usually make. So steal wafers add NET INCOME. NICE work. AMD...bah..
Worry more about the NET INCOME than revenue (not always, but it's the BOTTOM LINE for a reason).
Teckk - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
If only Lisa Su listened to you. 😰Wrs - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
It isn't that simple. You can net zero income while spamming R&D on the expense line (remember Amazon?). Or you can stop all R&D and report bloated net income, in the short term, probably before a death spiral.AMD more than doubled operating (and net) income. For a mature industry that's a scary trajectory to any direct competitor. Keep in mind AMD is fabless. Intel has the revenue/income of its integrated fab operations, and we know fabs are doing great. A proper comparison of market influence would necessarily include both AMD and a part of TSMC and Global Foundries, or exclude the part of Intel that is fabs.
But all us geeks know AMD chips have been on the upswing versus some years of Intel stagnation. The numbers are just late to report the news.
Spunjji - Thursday, October 28, 2021 - link
🙄mode_13h - Thursday, October 28, 2021 - link
> Intel grows NET INCOME from 5.1B to 6.8B this Q.Perhaps because Intel cut back on share buybacks vs. last year. The dividend (in total $) remains unchanged, however.
mode_13h - Thursday, October 28, 2021 - link
I'm pretty sure this guy is shorting AMD, BTW.Zoolook - Saturday, November 6, 2021 - link
No not always, you can easily grow net income by stopping investment in development, short term you will increase net income but it will hurt you in a few years.Looking only at net income is shortsighted and does not tell the whole story.
psyclist80 - Tuesday, October 26, 2021 - link
So many Catalysts for AMD...they are hitting full stride. Looking forward to the future with them, both as a shareholder since 2013 and a PC Enthusiast! Go Lisa and team!WaltC - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
Yes, AMD is going gangbusters even in this shortage. If the shortage breaks next year they'll push even higher numbers!TheJian - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
Q's getting better, but still not Q4 2009 1b+ NET INCOME. Which means, IMHO, too many consoles that make single digit to mid teen margins, instead of more EPYC or HEDT etc chips that make mass MARGIN and sell for thousands EACH (and make thousands each in many cases).Stop making consoles, and you'll start hitting 1B+ NET INCOME Q's right and left. In a wafer shortage you don't make celerons or console socs etc. You make stuff that makes the MOST margin. That is why Intel made 6.8B this Q vs. 5.1B last Q. That is NET INCOME people. They made 7x AMD NET...Yeah, AMD is winning...I swear... /s I said they had about a year left, you're seeing it. Mkap 3/4 of Intel, yet NET 1/7'th. See the problem here? Never mind assets, shares outstanding, etc etc. Macrotrends.net if you don't own your own trade account somewhere (15yrs of data). Not saying AMD isn't going in the right direction, but 3/4 the mkap of Intel. Are they making 5B a Q NET INCOME? NO, not even 1B NET yet, not since 2009 Q4. Just saying people, I'd rather be in a company that looks to be making ~22B net this year vs. AMD trying to get to 3B NET (one time tax breaks don't count, so 1.3B out)?
scineram - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
Retard.Teckk - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
Hey it’s Jian.Why don’t you compare Intel’s revenue to that of Apple? Do you know Apple is making better systems with their own designs after skipping Intel’s chips. Why not Intel follow Apple and come up with their own devices?
Intel’s stock has performed really well in the last 10 years as well right?
Qasar - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
yep, another anti amd rant by thejian. what else is new ? only seems to post on here when intel and amd's earnings reports are announced. praise intel, bash amd, some old bsWrs - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
You do know Q4 2009 for AMD included a $1.24 billion court settlement from Intel? Net income includes taxes and special items. Operating income doesn't. So operating income is just more reliable in gauging a company's trend. In 2009 AMD wasn't doing so hot - slight negative op income.Spunjji - Thursday, October 28, 2021 - link
He does know that, he's just hoping nobody else notices why he cherry-picked that one date, because otherwise it rips the bottom out of his bullshit narratives.Spunjji - Thursday, October 28, 2021 - link
TL;DR: *fart noises*mode_13h - Thursday, October 28, 2021 - link
It's a good thing TheJian is just a day trader, because if he actually worked in one of these big corps he wouldn't last long. The corporate lawyers' heads would explode, after listening to him for even 5 minutes.Qasar - Thursday, October 28, 2021 - link
he's not a day tracker, he's just a crack potPacinamac - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
Happy for AMD. It wasn't long ago I expected them to go bankrupt. Competition is good for everyone.Oxford Guy - Friday, October 29, 2021 - link
Duopoly isn't true competition. It just is less obvious monopolization.ballsystemlord - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
Spelling and grammar corrections:"To that they, they are reiterating that it remains on-track to close by the end of this year."
Too many "they" try:
"In answer to that, they are reiterating that it remains on-track to close by the end of this year."
Oxford Guy - Friday, October 29, 2021 - link
AMD: 'We make the best GPUs you can't buy!'investors posting comments: 'Ain't that swell?'