I agree. The little fan would spin up that much less frequently. It's not bad though (and if I ran mine behind the monitor, I'm sure I'd never hear it).
Agreed. They should at least consider a separate SKU that axes the 2.5" drive and slightly increases the heatsink surface area, as you said. This would cost almost nothing as a case rework wouldn't be necessary: all they need to change is the heatsink and perhaps the blower.
I have R5700 version of this, and I can tell you that if you add thermal pad the chassis which is full aluminum, it doesn't throttle on 25W. This thing has more cooling than laptops with the same CPU. Mine is TV mounted, and then it's not running a fan at a level I can hear.
Indeed, but it appears the NUC platform is slowly becoming an industry design blueprint instead of a product line. Quite frankly I'm glad this segment is crossing the business-application barrier because there are some substantial benefits to these over, say, an All In One.
It is, yeah. ASUS calls it a "4x4" as in 4 inch by 4 inch system, which is the generic term. Anandtech calling this a NUC is like referring to Scotties facial tissues as "Kleenexes".
Ordered a 4800U based PN50 in Summer 2020, listed by the e-tailer as "due next week".
It was to become a small low-power but "sprinty" hyperconverged server with a full complement of 64GB of RAM to complement the 8 cores and "max SSD", potentially in a cluster of three if it turned out any good.
Among the most important criteria was very low idle power and “unnoticeable” sound emissions under all loads.
Saw the delivery date slip further and further until it became "unknown".
Cancelled the order and got all three last generations of Intel NUCs within a couple of months (NUC8i7BEH, NUC10i7FNH and NUC11PAHi7), less by design than by market opportunity: they were the only kind available at each point in time and I seem to have been rather lucky with the prices, too (today they all have far higher listings and no availability).
I also got a Lenovo Ultrabook with the Ryzen 5800U as a point of reference, which unfortunately can't be strong-armed into server duty while off-duty as a laptop, for lack of RAM expansion, even if it was hardly more expensive than a similarly equipped PN51 would be, …if it were available: it's quite simply a crazy market!
They all confirm your benchmark findings, but it's rather unfortunate that you don't include power consumption figures for the benchmarks as well, because they are very informative in terms of chip technology and other side effects (noise and energy).
The best thing about the Intel NUCs is their configurability in terms of P1, P2, TAU and fan parameters: You can really tune these machines to your ratio of noise tolerance and performance, effectively making them fit anywhere in the 8-35TDP (sustained) range and matching turbos.
Throughout my own benchmarking I found that the IPC improvements of Tiger Lake vs. the 14nm Comet/Cannon Lakes had the Gen11 quad-core achieve the same multi-threaded performance as the Gen10 hexa-core, on turbo or even after fitting to the 15 Watt envelope on long running workloads.
At the same time Tiger Lake and the Ryzen 3 were also very much the same performance core-by-core when running at the same clock speeds. It’s just much easier to have the Tiger Lake NUC clock higher than a Ryzen U (or any Ryzen for that matter), which has it gain the single threaded crown, ...unless you regulate the power to cut noise.
Because when you force Intel’s CPUs and Ryzen 3 to the same Wattage (=source of noise), Tiger Lake’s single threaded lead is gone, while the older 14nm chips start to really show their age.
Since I wanted to have them run “unnoticeable” under sporadic and sustained loads, I played with the P1, P2, TAU and fan curves to give a bit of turbo leeway for sporadic or interactive loads, while I made sure that they’d clock down before having to rev up the fans too high.
That can be another important differentiator when you want to deploy these for long-term office (or light server) use: These small fans love to eat dust and clog the vent openings when they spin.
You can get a lot more CPU performance out of the 7nm Ryzen 3 for the same heat than from any current Intel.
What I really wanted was all of these in a Mini-ITX form factor with large slow Noctua fans, but that seems a niche even worse served than the NUCs with these low Wattage but speedy SoCs.
And while it’s nice to know that these nice passive cooling replacement chassis exist for Intel NUCs, a somewhat intermediate option (big slow fan, much lower price) is still missing.
Yes, the Xe iGPU beats the Vega8 significantly, even when both share identical DRAM bandwidth (~50GB/s on my systems) and actual power.
But all of these are just terrible at gaming, while they are all quite good for 2D at 4k Linux or Windows.
Actually there was an article here by Ian which pointed out, that in fact the Lucienne chips were not just renamed Renoirs even if they share the same Zen2 cores and a very similar iGPU: There is supposed to be significant updates in power management, which may be somewhat more beneficial for battery operated devices.
Beware! There is no such thing as a Ryzen 2 pr Ryzen 3, only Ryzen 2000 and Ryzen 3000, which are 14nm and 12nm Products based in Zen1 Architecture. I think what you mean is Zen3 or in Marketing terms Ryzen 5000 and Zen2 or in marketing terms Ryzen 3000 Desktop and 4000 Notebook series. Don't mix these terms as nobody will be able to understand you!
Why review the PN50, when the PN51 is out with a Ryzen 5700U? I have both, and the PN51 is an incremental but welcome upgrade (2.5Gbs Ethernet, faster GPU, etc.)
I guess they can only review what they receive as a sample...
The upgrade of the PN51 is unfortunately minimal, as it again the lesser Lucienne SoC (Zen 2) 5700U and not the faster Cezanne (Zen 3) 5800U. The biggest advantage seems to be better power management vs. the 4800U.
Also 2.5Gbit seems to be an option not built in by default. On the other hand USB3 2.5 Gbit Adapters are cheap and easy to obtain, just a bit more messy in terms of cabling.
Thank you for the interesting review! It seems however, that there is conflicting info on the Miscellaneous I/O Ports Present, it seems on the frontpage in the overview box it is mistakenly labeled as TypeA Usb 3.2 Gen 2, but probably should be USB 3.2 Gen1.
Extra-small PCs are a dubious proposition unless their small size is critically important.
Otherwise performance-per-dollar, speed-per-watt, and noise efficiency are typically all drawbacks that the smaller form factor’s cuteness can’t justify.
A well-designed mini PC ought to have low noise. Even if it has a fan, ~20-25 Watts isn't much. The 45W 5900HX and 65W 5700G can be stuffed into mini PCs, and Intel puts discrete GPUs in NUCs.
Performance per dollar continues to be bad. Bad vs. a desktop, and I see 5700U laptop deals in the $650-750 range that compare well to either the barebones or configured price.
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meacupla - Friday, October 1, 2021 - link
I feel like, if Asus skipped the 2.5" SATA drive, they could have used a beefier heatsink to allow 25W operation with no thermal throttling.Integr8d - Friday, October 1, 2021 - link
I agree. The little fan would spin up that much less frequently. It's not bad though (and if I ran mine behind the monitor, I'm sure I'd never hear it).StevoLincolnite - Friday, October 1, 2021 - link
Not to mention a last gen Ryzen...Samus - Friday, October 1, 2021 - link
Agreed. They should at least consider a separate SKU that axes the 2.5" drive and slightly increases the heatsink surface area, as you said. This would cost almost nothing as a case rework wouldn't be necessary: all they need to change is the heatsink and perhaps the blower.YB1064 - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
Anemic 1GbE and a previous gen Ryzen...no thanks.dotjaz - Sunday, October 3, 2021 - link
PN50E1 has the 2.5GbE. As for lastgl gen APU, what's your point? 5000 series won't be much faster because it's still thermal limited.Samus - Monday, October 4, 2021 - link
Seriously like the Ryzen 4xxx-U's are slow or something...they're insanely fast.TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, October 7, 2021 - link
Just because they are fast doesnt mean people want to pay current gen pricing for a last gen product.powerarmour - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
It feels out of date already too, I'm not sure why anyone would want to buy this now.Oxford Guy - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
If companies don’t include egregious flaws how is there an incentive to upgrade sooner rather than later? Fix one flaw, get a new one.deil - Monday, October 4, 2021 - link
I have R5700 version of this, and I can tell you that if you add thermal pad the chassis which is full aluminum, it doesn't throttle on 25W. This thing has more cooling than laptops with the same CPU.Mine is TV mounted, and then it's not running a fan at a level I can hear.
Toadster - Friday, October 1, 2021 - link
isn't NUC an Intel name?Samus - Friday, October 1, 2021 - link
Indeed, but it appears the NUC platform is slowly becoming an industry design blueprint instead of a product line. Quite frankly I'm glad this segment is crossing the business-application barrier because there are some substantial benefits to these over, say, an All In One.nandnandnand - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
Their fault for calling it "The Next Unit of Computing".evilspoons - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
It is, yeah. ASUS calls it a "4x4" as in 4 inch by 4 inch system, which is the generic term. Anandtech calling this a NUC is like referring to Scotties facial tissues as "Kleenexes".Threska - Friday, October 1, 2021 - link
Hmmm. if I use a viewfinder I can hold this article up to my eyes for a stereo effect. :-Dabufrejoval - Friday, October 1, 2021 - link
Ordered a 4800U based PN50 in Summer 2020, listed by the e-tailer as "due next week".It was to become a small low-power but "sprinty" hyperconverged server with a full complement of 64GB of RAM to complement the 8 cores and "max SSD", potentially in a cluster of three if it turned out any good.
Among the most important criteria was very low idle power and “unnoticeable” sound emissions under all loads.
Saw the delivery date slip further and further until it became "unknown".
Cancelled the order and got all three last generations of Intel NUCs within a couple of months (NUC8i7BEH, NUC10i7FNH and NUC11PAHi7), less by design than by market opportunity: they were the only kind available at each point in time and I seem to have been rather lucky with the prices, too (today they all have far higher listings and no availability).
I also got a Lenovo Ultrabook with the Ryzen 5800U as a point of reference, which unfortunately can't be strong-armed into server duty while off-duty as a laptop, for lack of RAM expansion, even if it was hardly more expensive than a similarly equipped PN51 would be, …if it were available: it's quite simply a crazy market!
They all confirm your benchmark findings, but it's rather unfortunate that you don't include power consumption figures for the benchmarks as well, because they are very informative in terms of chip technology and other side effects (noise and energy).
The best thing about the Intel NUCs is their configurability in terms of P1, P2, TAU and fan parameters: You can really tune these machines to your ratio of noise tolerance and performance, effectively making them fit anywhere in the 8-35TDP (sustained) range and matching turbos.
Throughout my own benchmarking I found that the IPC improvements of Tiger Lake vs. the 14nm Comet/Cannon Lakes had the Gen11 quad-core achieve the same multi-threaded performance as the Gen10 hexa-core, on turbo or even after fitting to the 15 Watt envelope on long running workloads.
At the same time Tiger Lake and the Ryzen 3 were also very much the same performance core-by-core when running at the same clock speeds. It’s just much easier to have the Tiger Lake NUC clock higher than a Ryzen U (or any Ryzen for that matter), which has it gain the single threaded crown, ...unless you regulate the power to cut noise.
Because when you force Intel’s CPUs and Ryzen 3 to the same Wattage (=source of noise), Tiger Lake’s single threaded lead is gone, while the older 14nm chips start to really show their age.
Since I wanted to have them run “unnoticeable” under sporadic and sustained loads, I played with the P1, P2, TAU and fan curves to give a bit of turbo leeway for sporadic or interactive loads, while I made sure that they’d clock down before having to rev up the fans too high.
That can be another important differentiator when you want to deploy these for long-term office (or light server) use: These small fans love to eat dust and clog the vent openings when they spin.
You can get a lot more CPU performance out of the 7nm Ryzen 3 for the same heat than from any current Intel.
What I really wanted was all of these in a Mini-ITX form factor with large slow Noctua fans, but that seems a niche even worse served than the NUCs with these low Wattage but speedy SoCs.
And while it’s nice to know that these nice passive cooling replacement chassis exist for Intel NUCs, a somewhat intermediate option (big slow fan, much lower price) is still missing.
Yes, the Xe iGPU beats the Vega8 significantly, even when both share identical DRAM bandwidth (~50GB/s on my systems) and actual power.
But all of these are just terrible at gaming, while they are all quite good for 2D at 4k Linux or Windows.
abufrejoval - Friday, October 1, 2021 - link
I can't imagine that Ryzen 2 APUs are still being produced: They'd compete for the very same foundry capacities as Ryzen 3 APUs.So now that PN50's are finally coming, that means these are what's left over after nobody buys them in notebooks any more.
This means all theoretical long-term and mass deployment benefits of this form-factor, doesn't apply to this product any more.
Caveat emptor!
meacupla - Friday, October 1, 2021 - link
It takes money and time to retool foundries and half of the 5000U series still uses 4000U parts which are just renamed in bios.abufrejoval - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
Actually there was an article here by Ian which pointed out, that in fact the Lucienne chips were not just renamed Renoirs even if they share the same Zen2 cores and a very similar iGPU: There is supposed to be significant updates in power management, which may be somewhat more beneficial for battery operated devices.https://www.anandtech.com/show/16451/amds-ryzen-50...
Maksdampf - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
Beware! There is no such thing as a Ryzen 2 pr Ryzen 3, only Ryzen 2000 and Ryzen 3000, which are 14nm and 12nm Products based in Zen1 Architecture. I think what you mean is Zen3 or in Marketing terms Ryzen 5000 and Zen2 or in marketing terms Ryzen 3000 Desktop and 4000 Notebook series. Don't mix these terms as nobody will be able to understand you!brentpresley - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
Why review the PN50, when the PN51 is out with a Ryzen 5700U? I have both, and the PN51 is an incremental but welcome upgrade (2.5Gbs Ethernet, faster GPU, etc.)abufrejoval - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
I guess they can only review what they receive as a sample...The upgrade of the PN51 is unfortunately minimal, as it again the lesser Lucienne SoC (Zen 2) 5700U and not the faster Cezanne (Zen 3) 5800U. The biggest advantage seems to be better power management vs. the 4800U.
Also 2.5Gbit seems to be an option not built in by default. On the other hand USB3 2.5 Gbit Adapters are cheap and easy to obtain, just a bit more messy in terms of cabling.
fun_cheung - Friday, October 22, 2021 - link
I'd be interested in seeing some benchmarks on the 5800U as well. PN51 with 2.5GbE is tempting and so is the Gigabyte BRIX 5800U with 2.5GbEkapqa - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
Thank you for the interesting review!It seems however, that there is conflicting info on the Miscellaneous I/O Ports Present, it seems on the frontpage in the overview box it is mistakenly labeled as TypeA Usb 3.2 Gen 2, but probably should be USB 3.2 Gen1.
kapqa - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
would be nice to have the faster Type A USB 3.2 Gen 2, as also my Asrock A300 sports only Gen1.Oxford Guy - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
Did I miss it or was no information presented concerning noise?Decibels-per-watt, noise character, etc.
Oxford Guy - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
Extra-small PCs are a dubious proposition unless their small size is critically important.Otherwise performance-per-dollar, speed-per-watt, and noise efficiency are typically all drawbacks that the smaller form factor’s cuteness can’t justify.
nandnandnand - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
A well-designed mini PC ought to have low noise. Even if it has a fan, ~20-25 Watts isn't much. The 45W 5900HX and 65W 5700G can be stuffed into mini PCs, and Intel puts discrete GPUs in NUCs.Performance per dollar continues to be bad. Bad vs. a desktop, and I see 5700U laptop deals in the $650-750 range that compare well to either the barebones or configured price.
Oxford Guy - Sunday, October 3, 2021 - link
A larger box makes lower noise easier to achieve at any price point. Vertically-mounted low-RPM 120mm sleeve fans, for instance, are dirt cheap.Oxford Guy - Sunday, October 3, 2021 - link
Laptops have ergonomic issues and, sometimes, keyboard longevity issues. Cheap laptops tend to have poor color gamut and glossy glare-prone screens.But, if portability is needed a docking system will overcome those deficiencies, albeit at a higher price.
Lucky Stripes 99 - Monday, October 4, 2021 - link
Glad to see the USB-C-DP in a desktop. There are a new generation of USB-C-DP KVMs hitting the market and not having a hydra of cables is a big plus.