$185 - which you could spend on a set of aluminum lawn chairs. I am continually astounded that an ultra-high tech assembly like this, with hundreds of parts each microscopically created, comprising millions of transistors, and with multiple PCB layers, countless holes precisely drilled, and the whole thing electrically and electronically designed, all the drawings, BOM, logistics, testing etc, can appear on a shelf here at this price. Or at twice the price. Or three times.
That's because your aluminum lawn chairs are overpriced, and have significantly better margins. They probably only cost around $20 to make, $30 to ship, and $30 to store in a your local warehouse, until you bought them. That leaves more than a 50% profit margin for the manufacturer.
Where as Mobos have significantly less margin. Mobo makers only have around 10% profit per sale of a mobo, and less than 8% on graphics cards, by the time you can buy one locally. This is also the reason why it's so hard to get RMAs on mobos and graphics cards for certain manufacturers.
I doubt that orders of magnitude more "ASRock X570S PG Riptide" mobos will be sold than say "Walmart Model XYZ" lawnchair sets. There are major economies of scale in the electronic subcomponents, but the lawnchairs have some too.
Overall, I can far more easily see how lawnchairs might arrive at such a price than how a mobo can. In fact the latter appears miraculous compared to almost anything within 10x its price.
Bulk is a primary cost factor for lawn chairs made abroad. It limits how many products you can pack per container for shipment. For a typical product originating from SE Asia, remember each container has to make the sea and land journey round trip. That typically ranges from $25000-40000 for a 40' truckload to the US, or $600-1000 per linear foot. This holiday season there are unusual shipping backlogs and the price has spiked to $2000 or something. Might not be the best year to get lawn chairs. A corollary is that the more compact the chairs fold or stack into, the cheaper they can be sold for.
A mobo box being around 2 large books is comparatively easy to pack, but more importantly the tiny size of most of the components makes shipping costs to assembly site almost trivial. With Moore's law shrinking chips so much, one can still pack millions of transistors on a mature node for just pennies.
You know, I’m reading this mobo review after reading the details of the new M1 Pro / Max SoC, and all I can think of is that this mobo looks so large and outdated.
I think it’s time for processors to start being soldered on, for Intel at least, as they change their sockets so often. I’d happily buy a CPU + mobo + decent igpu + ram + a TB or 2 of SSD space onboard. The whole package should cost less than buying the parts separately and work far better.
The cheaper CPUs can come with 8GB soldered on and the better ones with 16/32/64GB RAM options. 1 TB onboard of fast soldered SSD is enough for most people, and there can still be a M2 slot for adding a few more TB.
I’m not sure how to keep the ability to add a beefy GPU, maybe have a single high speed slot, plus the ability to add a daughterboard with a few more slots if needed, connected by a TB4 cable. (TB is basically PCIe over a cable).
Won’t be to everyone’s taste but it would make life easier and cheaper. Technology marches on and HDDs no longer have replaceable platters (drums), or replaceable arms / actuators. Time to take the next step and integrate the CPU and RAM, god knows Intel’s CPUs need a better RAM connection.
You are either clueless or a total moron, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt of being the former.
The CPU socket, RAM slots, m.2 slots, and pci-e slots do not add much to the BoM on mobos In fact, you can buy Intel LGA 115x and 2011 sockets off of Ali express for pennies.
Soldering everything to the mobo adds to the complexity, which means, it will, in fact, be more costly to manufacture. Not only that, instead of having a single SKU for the mobo, you are now adding more SKUs for different configurations. This means you need more assembly lines building each of the SKUs, and are further increasing cost to manufacture.
The only reason why apple is capable of soldering everything onto the board, is because 1. They have a very small niche market, which is around 7.4% of the worldwide PC market share. 2. Their very small niche market doesn't seem to care how their PC can't be upgraded or repaired. 3. Their very small niche market doesn't seem to care how expensive Macs cost.
Also, how the hell did you arrive at the conclusion, "Apple is cheaper, because they solder everything to the mobo"?
Sockets always add to product cost, but then so do multiple SKUs, in terms of inventory management. The added costs may be minimal when done well, but technically I don't see how soldering a chip directly to board can be higher BOM than soldering the socket and then inserting the same chip later. You are aware that sockets have to be soldered to board, right? :)
And Apple ain't small. 7.4% share is still 20 million units each year, plus they share techniques & components with the miniature boards in another 150-200 million phones. Assembly line logistics & just-in-time manufacturing are kind of Apple's superpowers. Swapping one component for another of the same size on the same assembly line ought to be trivial.
Yeah, and then, when you have to do this exact same, multiple SKU thing for the Asrock X570 lineup, which consists of... X570 AQUA X570 Creator X570 Taichi Razer Edition X570 Taichi X570 Extreme4 Wifi ax X570 Extreme4 X570 Pro4 X570M Pro4 X570 Steel Legend Wifi ax X570 Steel Legend X570 PG Velocita X570S PG Riptide X570 Phantom Gaming X X570 Phantom Gaming 4 Wifi ax X570 Phantom Gaming 4 X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3
And combine most of those mobos with the Ryzen 5000 series lineup, which consists of... Ryzen 9 5950X Ryzen 9 5900X Ryzen 7 5800X Ryzen 5 5600X Ryzen 7 5700G Ryzen 5 5600G Ryzen 3 5300G
Oh, and we can't forget RAM and SSDs, since those too will be soldered on in various configurations. So, for RAM we will do 8/16/32/64 And for SSD, we will do 128/256/512/1TB/2TB
16 x 7 x 4 x 5 = 2240 possible SKUs And this will be PURELY from Asrock's lineup. We haven't even done Asus, Gigabyte or MSI yet. It's pretty easy to see there is going to be a bit of an issue.
imagine this, but change it for intel. 2240 for amd ? i dont even want to consider this for intel. at the store i go to, there are 23 intel cpus ! just swapping cpus, while leaving everything else the same is 7,360 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yea this would NOT work at all.
All that said I agree with your implied stance that we should keep major sockets on the desktop - RAM, CPU, GPU, storage - for the plain fact that the factories to solder/desolder the stuff are so far away, and we need a local ability to customize our stuff and upgrade/fix our components piecemeal.
Do you pay extra, meaculpa, for being gratuitously insulting? Or maybe you think flame wars improve a forum, and would like to be treated that way yourself.
1. Except for the employees (including people being paid to astroturf and such by their firms), all people who post here can automatically be characterized as not being geniuses. Geniuses typically have better things to do with their time and are able to recognize that.
2. Among the group of less intelligent folk who do post here 'altruistically', each person has a different knowledge base and a different age. Expecting everyone to know everything is foolish. Some overreach in their posts but lack the knowledge to know that. That includes people who preen and pose whilst mocking others' efforts. When people make erroneous claims all that's needed is a simple factual correction, not a narcissistic display of bravura.
Bottom line is this: Worry about yourself first. Worry about your factuality first. When correcting others, do it politely — especially when the people making the posts aren't being paid to do it. Correcting in a bullying manner is its own forum error, one deserving of correction.
Culturally, it is clear that Internet discourse is becoming less civil. I have seen forums devolve, even those that don't have mechanisms (like downvoting and post hiding) that encourage the aggression that causes that devolution. I am not a sociologist so I don't know enough to be able to explain (with less guesswork and more facts) the origins of all of this trend but it is one that I can see clearly in many places — even though pockets of rudeness have always been around. Attention spans seem to be shrinking and with that there seems to be a proportionate rise in entitled smirky wrath.
One thing humanity desperately needs is mandatory curriculum in all schools for understanding fallacies — how to avoid using them in discourse in particular. That would go a long way toward restoring some level of efficiency in public Internet-based communication. Even huge corporations use naked crass fallacies in court (as Sony did when trying to attack consumers who opposed the decision to retroactively strip the PS3 of Linux support).
Nothing says "canary" as a precursor to the fall of society as the decline of social skills. Soon we all will be communicating in the language of "road-rage".
I certainly think education on critical thinking would be of use, but I'm not so sure about fallacies specifically - your example is instructive here, as when lawyers use fallacies, they tend to do so in full knowledge of what they're doing. The target audience are likely to assess the information according to their priors - knowing that they've been presented with a fallacy is unlikely to sway them if they happen to agree with the conclusion.
We saw this recently in the UK with a court decision (now overturned) that barred prescribing puberty blockers to trans children on the basis of an assumption that correlation entails causality; whenever this was pointed out people tended to respond by insisting that it was still the right decision for some other (usually unproven or false) reason.
Education on critical thinking is sorely lacking. I didn't get a grounding in subjects like formal logic and epistemology until I studied Philosophy as an undergraduate (I'm in the UK and was educated in a state school, for context).
Enough education on fallacies would, hopefully, get them removed from serious discourse. The audience of lawyers is not only the highly-educated. Also, even those with advanced degrees are often only given cursory training in fallacies. The cram-then-forget style of so much of higher education is part of the problem. There is also pressure on all people in a society dominated by fallacies to cave.
‘Critical thinking’ should also be reframed as ‘true thinking’ or similar — to remove the false implication that ‘critical’ thinking is special (therefore optional/compartmentalized) rather than the only kind of thinking that yields accurate understanding.
Another massive problem is bad terminology, terminology that so often enables people to avoid the rigor of rationality. When people hear of ‘critical thinking’ they are inclined to believe it’s an academic exercise rather than the way thinking should be approach generally. The embedded word critic also implies combativeness, an excessively-judgmental mentality. Given the strong appeal of conformity (i.e. being ‘chill’), such connotations are counterproductive.
The problem with this idea is the economics. If we make the Cartesian product of all CPU models even within a class, all motherboard models, RAM and SSD capacities, plus other variants that exist already (high-end Ethernet or not etc.), that's a truckload of possible SKUs. Unless you pick a one size fits all choice.
I've got a better idea, what if we made a stqandard that would allow people to put in what they want/need at a price they are comfortable with? Oh hey, we already have that!
If you want non upgradeable e-waste, and putting a CPU in a mobo is that hard for you, apple is already available for you. What would soldering everything even gain for you, outside of making everything permanent?
Intel introduced BTX 20 or so years ago. There is the ITX, miniITX, MicroATX, all the "small form factors", Intel's "Next Unit of Computing" (NUC), and so on and so forth. I remember BTX being intended to support better cooling - but for that you have the cases with rotated mainboard, ports on top, multiple chambers (PSU separated from the rest), ...
Not to mention the fact that laptops are taking over desktops (with multiple form factors, from 13" and under laptops to 17.3" gaming rigs or engineering workhorses)...
I was aware of BTX but don’t recall that it was mainly about getting GPU waste heat under better control. Perhaps it was. It has been a long time. AMD, Silverstone, Apple have also introduced other form factors. Regardless, the ATX form factor has remained dominant for far far too long.
And if your soldered-on SSD breaks, you need to replace the entire device.
I'm using an HP 8200 (I think) with third generation i3 and - originally - a 320 (I think) GB hdd. It runs with 3TB plus 1TB plus one 120GB SSD. With 320GB only of storage, I would have thrown it long ago.
Can someone, preferably asrock or gigabyte, please make an x570s m-atx. Lots of people would buy one in this underserved category for the smaller size and greater expansion (RAM and slots). Thanks!
If there was sufficient demand they would be doing so already. Most people view these things colored by their own needs or desires, What I want or need is what everyone wants/needs. Which is simply not true. If most people wanted ITX systems the store shelves would be FULL of ITX systems. Whats on the shelves is what most people want/need. When that changes so will they. They do a lot of research to find out what they should be making. Hint its what people will buy.
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Arbie - Friday, October 22, 2021 - link
$185 - which you could spend on a set of aluminum lawn chairs. I am continually astounded that an ultra-high tech assembly like this, with hundreds of parts each microscopically created, comprising millions of transistors, and with multiple PCB layers, countless holes precisely drilled, and the whole thing electrically and electronically designed, all the drawings, BOM, logistics, testing etc, can appear on a shelf here at this price. Or at twice the price. Or three times.Just an observation...
meacupla - Friday, October 22, 2021 - link
That's because your aluminum lawn chairs are overpriced, and have significantly better margins. They probably only cost around $20 to make, $30 to ship, and $30 to store in a your local warehouse, until you bought them. That leaves more than a 50% profit margin for the manufacturer.Where as Mobos have significantly less margin. Mobo makers only have around 10% profit per sale of a mobo, and less than 8% on graphics cards, by the time you can buy one locally. This is also the reason why it's so hard to get RMAs on mobos and graphics cards for certain manufacturers.
Arbie - Friday, October 22, 2021 - link
So if lawn chairs cost half as much, mobos would be 0.5 x 10^6 more complex per dollar, instead of 1.0 x 10^6. I get it.TheITS - Friday, October 22, 2021 - link
It's much more logically explained by economies of scale, not complexity.Arbie - Friday, October 22, 2021 - link
I doubt that orders of magnitude more "ASRock X570S PG Riptide" mobos will be sold than say "Walmart Model XYZ" lawnchair sets. There are major economies of scale in the electronic subcomponents, but the lawnchairs have some too.Overall, I can far more easily see how lawnchairs might arrive at such a price than how a mobo can. In fact the latter appears miraculous compared to almost anything within 10x its price.
Wrs - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
Bulk is a primary cost factor for lawn chairs made abroad. It limits how many products you can pack per container for shipment. For a typical product originating from SE Asia, remember each container has to make the sea and land journey round trip. That typically ranges from $25000-40000 for a 40' truckload to the US, or $600-1000 per linear foot. This holiday season there are unusual shipping backlogs and the price has spiked to $2000 or something. Might not be the best year to get lawn chairs. A corollary is that the more compact the chairs fold or stack into, the cheaper they can be sold for.A mobo box being around 2 large books is comparatively easy to pack, but more importantly the tiny size of most of the components makes shipping costs to assembly site almost trivial. With Moore's law shrinking chips so much, one can still pack millions of transistors on a mature node for just pennies.
ballsystemlord - Friday, October 22, 2021 - link
Technical correction @Gavin . You didn't mean to write "... and three PCIe 4.0 x4 slots." You intended "... and three PCIe 4.0 x1 slots".geniekid - Friday, October 22, 2021 - link
How well does the GPU bracket/holder actually work?Tomatotech - Friday, October 22, 2021 - link
You know, I’m reading this mobo review after reading the details of the new M1 Pro / Max SoC, and all I can think of is that this mobo looks so large and outdated.I think it’s time for processors to start being soldered on, for Intel at least, as they change their sockets so often. I’d happily buy a CPU + mobo + decent igpu + ram + a TB or 2 of SSD space onboard. The whole package should cost less than buying the parts separately and work far better.
The cheaper CPUs can come with 8GB soldered on and the better ones with 16/32/64GB RAM options. 1 TB onboard of fast soldered SSD is enough for most people, and there can still be a M2 slot for adding a few more TB.
I’m not sure how to keep the ability to add a beefy GPU, maybe have a single high speed slot, plus the ability to add a daughterboard with a few more slots if needed, connected by a TB4 cable. (TB is basically PCIe over a cable).
Won’t be to everyone’s taste but it would make life easier and cheaper. Technology marches on and HDDs no longer have replaceable platters (drums), or replaceable arms / actuators. Time to take the next step and integrate the CPU and RAM, god knows Intel’s CPUs need a better RAM connection.
isthisavailable - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
How about no?meacupla - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
You are either clueless or a total moron, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt of being the former.The CPU socket, RAM slots, m.2 slots, and pci-e slots do not add much to the BoM on mobos
In fact, you can buy Intel LGA 115x and 2011 sockets off of Ali express for pennies.
Soldering everything to the mobo adds to the complexity, which means, it will, in fact, be more costly to manufacture.
Not only that, instead of having a single SKU for the mobo, you are now adding more SKUs for different configurations. This means you need more assembly lines building each of the SKUs, and are further increasing cost to manufacture.
The only reason why apple is capable of soldering everything onto the board, is because
1. They have a very small niche market, which is around 7.4% of the worldwide PC market share.
2. Their very small niche market doesn't seem to care how their PC can't be upgraded or repaired.
3. Their very small niche market doesn't seem to care how expensive Macs cost.
Also, how the hell did you arrive at the conclusion, "Apple is cheaper, because they solder everything to the mobo"?
Wrs - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
Sockets always add to product cost, but then so do multiple SKUs, in terms of inventory management. The added costs may be minimal when done well, but technically I don't see how soldering a chip directly to board can be higher BOM than soldering the socket and then inserting the same chip later. You are aware that sockets have to be soldered to board, right? :)And Apple ain't small. 7.4% share is still 20 million units each year, plus they share techniques & components with the miniature boards in another 150-200 million phones. Assembly line logistics & just-in-time manufacturing are kind of Apple's superpowers. Swapping one component for another of the same size on the same assembly line ought to be trivial.
meacupla - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
Yeah, and then, when you have to do this exact same, multiple SKU thing for the Asrock X570 lineup, which consists of...X570 AQUA
X570 Creator
X570 Taichi Razer Edition
X570 Taichi
X570 Extreme4 Wifi ax
X570 Extreme4
X570 Pro4
X570M Pro4
X570 Steel Legend Wifi ax
X570 Steel Legend
X570 PG Velocita
X570S PG Riptide
X570 Phantom Gaming X
X570 Phantom Gaming 4 Wifi ax
X570 Phantom Gaming 4
X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3
And combine most of those mobos with the Ryzen 5000 series lineup, which consists of...
Ryzen 9 5950X
Ryzen 9 5900X
Ryzen 7 5800X
Ryzen 5 5600X
Ryzen 7 5700G
Ryzen 5 5600G
Ryzen 3 5300G
Oh, and we can't forget RAM and SSDs, since those too will be soldered on in various configurations.
So, for RAM we will do 8/16/32/64
And for SSD, we will do 128/256/512/1TB/2TB
16 x 7 x 4 x 5 = 2240 possible SKUs
And this will be PURELY from Asrock's lineup. We haven't even done Asus, Gigabyte or MSI yet.
It's pretty easy to see there is going to be a bit of an issue.
Qasar - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
imagine this, but change it for intel. 2240 for amd ? i dont even want to consider this for intel. at the store i go to, there are 23 intel cpus ! just swapping cpus, while leaving everything else the same is 7,360 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!yea this would NOT work at all.
Wrs - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
All that said I agree with your implied stance that we should keep major sockets on the desktop - RAM, CPU, GPU, storage - for the plain fact that the factories to solder/desolder the stuff are so far away, and we need a local ability to customize our stuff and upgrade/fix our components piecemeal.Arbie - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
"You are either clueless or a total moron"Do you pay extra, meaculpa, for being gratuitously insulting? Or maybe you think flame wars improve a forum, and would like to be treated that way yourself.
meacupla - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
I aim to please.TheinsanegamerN - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
Well someone has to tell idiots they are idiots, otherwise they'll try to fly off of the empire state building thinking they've invented flight.Oxford Guy - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
1. Except for the employees (including people being paid to astroturf and such by their firms), all people who post here can automatically be characterized as not being geniuses. Geniuses typically have better things to do with their time and are able to recognize that.2. Among the group of less intelligent folk who do post here 'altruistically', each person has a different knowledge base and a different age. Expecting everyone to know everything is foolish. Some overreach in their posts but lack the knowledge to know that. That includes people who preen and pose whilst mocking others' efforts. When people make erroneous claims all that's needed is a simple factual correction, not a narcissistic display of bravura.
Bottom line is this: Worry about yourself first. Worry about your factuality first. When correcting others, do it politely — especially when the people making the posts aren't being paid to do it. Correcting in a bullying manner is its own forum error, one deserving of correction.
Culturally, it is clear that Internet discourse is becoming less civil. I have seen forums devolve, even those that don't have mechanisms (like downvoting and post hiding) that encourage the aggression that causes that devolution. I am not a sociologist so I don't know enough to be able to explain (with less guesswork and more facts) the origins of all of this trend but it is one that I can see clearly in many places — even though pockets of rudeness have always been around. Attention spans seem to be shrinking and with that there seems to be a proportionate rise in entitled smirky wrath.
One thing humanity desperately needs is mandatory curriculum in all schools for understanding fallacies — how to avoid using them in discourse in particular. That would go a long way toward restoring some level of efficiency in public Internet-based communication. Even huge corporations use naked crass fallacies in court (as Sony did when trying to attack consumers who opposed the decision to retroactively strip the PS3 of Linux support).
haakon_k - Sunday, October 24, 2021 - link
Post of the month! Nearly post of the year !! Well said, 'Oxford Guy'.Threska - Sunday, October 24, 2021 - link
Nothing says "canary" as a precursor to the fall of society as the decline of social skills. Soon we all will be communicating in the language of "road-rage".Spunjji - Monday, October 25, 2021 - link
I certainly think education on critical thinking would be of use, but I'm not so sure about fallacies specifically - your example is instructive here, as when lawyers use fallacies, they tend to do so in full knowledge of what they're doing. The target audience are likely to assess the information according to their priors - knowing that they've been presented with a fallacy is unlikely to sway them if they happen to agree with the conclusion.We saw this recently in the UK with a court decision (now overturned) that barred prescribing puberty blockers to trans children on the basis of an assumption that correlation entails causality; whenever this was pointed out people tended to respond by insisting that it was still the right decision for some other (usually unproven or false) reason.
Education on critical thinking is sorely lacking. I didn't get a grounding in subjects like formal logic and epistemology until I studied Philosophy as an undergraduate (I'm in the UK and was educated in a state school, for context).
Oxford Guy - Friday, October 29, 2021 - link
Enough education on fallacies would, hopefully, get them removed from serious discourse. The audience of lawyers is not only the highly-educated. Also, even those with advanced degrees are often only given cursory training in fallacies. The cram-then-forget style of so much of higher education is part of the problem. There is also pressure on all people in a society dominated by fallacies to cave.‘Critical thinking’ should also be reframed as ‘true thinking’ or similar — to remove the false implication that ‘critical’ thinking is special (therefore optional/compartmentalized) rather than the only kind of thinking that yields accurate understanding.
Another massive problem is bad terminology, terminology that so often enables people to avoid the rigor of rationality. When people hear of ‘critical thinking’ they are inclined to believe it’s an academic exercise rather than the way thinking should be approach generally. The embedded word critic also implies combativeness, an excessively-judgmental mentality. Given the strong appeal of conformity (i.e. being ‘chill’), such connotations are counterproductive.
opinali - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
The problem with this idea is the economics. If we make the Cartesian product of all CPU models even within a class, all motherboard models, RAM and SSD capacities, plus other variants that exist already (high-end Ethernet or not etc.), that's a truckload of possible SKUs. Unless you pick a one size fits all choice.TheinsanegamerN - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
I've got a better idea, what if we made a stqandard that would allow people to put in what they want/need at a price they are comfortable with? Oh hey, we already have that!If you want non upgradeable e-waste, and putting a CPU in a mobo is that hard for you, apple is already available for you. What would soldering everything even gain for you, outside of making everything permanent?
Oxford Guy - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
What has been needed for many many years is a change from the ATX form factor to one that cools GPUs efficiently.It has long been utterly ridiculous that the highest-power item in a machine spews its heat back into the case and has tiny fans to cool it.
Threska - Sunday, October 24, 2021 - link
There's change out there. Just not in the market most play in.https://youtu.be/chNM_nntwKU
Spunjji - Monday, October 25, 2021 - link
Yeah, this situation is bizarre. We're long overdue for a substantial change to system form-factor.Calin - Monday, October 25, 2021 - link
Intel introduced BTX 20 or so years ago.There is the ITX, miniITX, MicroATX, all the "small form factors", Intel's "Next Unit of Computing" (NUC), and so on and so forth.
I remember BTX being intended to support better cooling - but for that you have the cases with rotated mainboard, ports on top, multiple chambers (PSU separated from the rest), ...
Not to mention the fact that laptops are taking over desktops (with multiple form factors, from 13" and under laptops to 17.3" gaming rigs or engineering workhorses)...
A system form factor change is taking place...
Oxford Guy - Friday, October 29, 2021 - link
I was aware of BTX but don’t recall that it was mainly about getting GPU waste heat under better control. Perhaps it was. It has been a long time. AMD, Silverstone, Apple have also introduced other form factors. Regardless, the ATX form factor has remained dominant for far far too long.Calin - Monday, October 25, 2021 - link
And if your soldered-on SSD breaks, you need to replace the entire device.I'm using an HP 8200 (I think) with third generation i3 and - originally - a 320 (I think) GB hdd.
It runs with 3TB plus 1TB plus one 120GB SSD.
With 320GB only of storage, I would have thrown it long ago.
Robberbaron12 - Wednesday, October 27, 2021 - link
I expect this is the future for "mobile" CPUs, a mega SOC with Ram and a SSD soldered on and then everything else connected over PCI-EPerson5e9 - Friday, October 22, 2021 - link
Can someone, preferably asrock or gigabyte, please make an x570s m-atx. Lots of people would buy one in this underserved category for the smaller size and greater expansion (RAM and slots). Thanks!TheinsanegamerN - Saturday, October 23, 2021 - link
Why? B550 already exists, so you get PCIe 4.0 for a M.2 SSD and the GPU. You dont get more RAM slots with X570 VS B550.Is having 4.0x1 slots that important?
Calin - Monday, October 25, 2021 - link
4.0 1x slots might be more valuable than 4.0 x16 slots, as most computers won't come even close to filling up a 3.0 x16 slot.ipkh - Sunday, October 24, 2021 - link
What's with the crappy Tidepods++ graphic for?It's rather crass and shouldn't be there as it has nothing to do with the article.
Harry_Wild - Sunday, October 31, 2021 - link
All these board manufacturers should concentrate on the itx size motherboards for the mini PC cases, 12" X 7" X 10". Boards are 6.7" X 6.7" in size!atragorn - Sunday, November 14, 2021 - link
If there was sufficient demand they would be doing so already. Most people view these things colored by their own needs or desires, What I want or need is what everyone wants/needs. Which is simply not true. If most people wanted ITX systems the store shelves would be FULL of ITX systems.Whats on the shelves is what most people want/need. When that changes so will they. They do a lot of research to find out what they should be making. Hint its what people will buy.
dailyprimenews - Tuesday, December 28, 2021 - link
https://todayprimenews.com/https://todayprimenews.com/world-news/
https://todayprimenews.com/sports-news/