Agree, only this seems more by design than any lack of direction within google. In my opinion they will never release a phone with everything you need, as they donot want to compete with others. Their main revenue source is Playstore. So they will only release a sub par phone just with things they want to try out so that others can catch up. For exmaple this pixel 6 will likely have sub par battery life with <=4000mah battery(while others have 5000mah), these will have only 12mp 4x zoom and a 12mp ultra wide camera sensor, seriously limiting its zoom range and it landscape capabilities.
Looks like I may be wrong. Rumors leaks suggest, 5000mah battery and a 48MP 4x camera. If this is true, google would have finally released a phone that is not shortchanged in any practical way to its competition.
Currently VIVO x60 proplus is the only phone that has not nerfed its features either for future upgrade market (Like Samsung did with s21 utlra) or limiting feature so as to not compete like google does.
Corrections to be made: The Verge article is based on their actual hands-on and official info given to them by Google. So I don't think there needs to be "presumably" and "assumed" words when mentioning their specs, as it is straight from the device maker. On that note, they flat out say the Pixel 6 Pro is a 6.7" QHD+ 120Hz screen, while the Pixel 6 is a 6.4" FHD+ 90Hz screen.
Tits on a Boar. Pixel is a dead brand since it's inception. That HW has nothing really stable. Always has issues from Hardware and Software you can literally search for problems with these devices this is not just now, it has been since Nexus but those were at-least made better price and user customization friendly.
This phone is going to be priced at iPhone level and have all mediocre trash Software. Android with 12 is a huge downgrade from the NAND speed and NAND access thanks to Scoped Storage. UI/UX due to inability to be innovative and unique instead dumbdown the whole OS. There are so many issues with Android nowadays, AAB bundles, lots of issues with Bootloader unlocks due to fused partition layout system and new Safety Net & all those fools at Google use iPhones and Macs, there's no point in expecting any good user controllable OS at this point. The infection of Apple is too strong.
I didn't even mention the lack of 3.5mm jack and SD card slot, which I should never expect from a cloud company. On top this phone will have an inferior ARM design chip, means it's DOA thanks to RDNA2 and Adreno GPUs on top which will crush it. Only Pixel fans will buy this. As for muh stock Android, well that OS is trash. More proprietary Google junkware than AOSP.
What sort of NPU / AI thing that is going to help me doing things better than say a Samsung or OnePlus or any X Chinese device or Sony flagship from HW or SW perspective ? More data collection I suppose. That's it. Nothing much, they are sinking more money onto this Pixel division since 2016, it never had any growth until a year, still their N. A Marketshare is just 2.1%. Ultimate failure of a device.
LG failed from 10%+ in 2016 to 4% in 2020 but Google was less than 3% and still is lmao.
It hurts to see how Android has been derailed into such a useless consumption based OS from it's roots of having a powerful open alternative to that Jail called Apple.
Wow... That is a whole lot of negative. Its really not all that bad. AS many issues as it has, I switched to IOS for 5 months and switched back to Android because its still a far better experience to me. Apple still has gut wrenchingly horrible keyboard and a the homescreen still sucks. They still cant get notifications or widgets right either... Neither gets multitasking done as well as the 2009 Palm Pre did... Ugh.
That is about Android vs iOS. Yeah what you said is correct, I don't even use iPhone because I hate that notch and lack of a direct connection to PC. But Android is trash nowadays. However combined with Google's failure HW and Even worse SW it is an utter sham of a device.
So much mental gymnastics and so much misinformation to prove that >google bad. You don't even have proof for half of your statements.
Also, remember this: as soon as smartphones became payment capable devices, security had to become better, much better. Just because you don't use those features doesn't mean they're not important.
The thought-experiment I find most troubling would be a ransomware attack on phones. If there were an easily accessible exploit that could enable phones to be hacked, just imagine what would happen if a significant fraction of the population woke up to find their phone bricked, until their carrier or government paid like $1B.
Any readers of this site will know the difference between a custom ARM core and a Cortex-A that's licensed.
As for licensing a custom core from Samsung, frequent readers of this site will also know that Samsung disbanded its ARM core design group, about 2 years ago.
good things Android™ are open source and most common phones has community support with custom ROM (still based on AOSP) that has cherry picked codes which you can review it according to your use.
You literally listed nothing that is common problem with %99.9 of users. Me thinks you are just a nerd throwing out data that has no real meaning on actual people.
Who the hell cares about a SD card slot or headphone jack in 2021? I've never seen a time i needed them. lol
Also that market share stat..uhh what the hell are you talking about. I hardly know anyone with iphones except girls now. Every guy i know has one, and they are not even nerds at all. lol
"always has issues with hardware and software". Ok bud, i guess i've been super lucky to never have a issue then. So much for always right.
> Who the hell cares about a SD card slot or headphone jack in 2021?
I'll admit that I based a phone-buying decision in 2018 because it had a headphone jack. However, once I got Bluetooth headphones that supported AptX HD and Sony's equivalent, I decided their quality was good enough that lowering of the noise floor-lowering by noise cancellation revealed more detail than any fidelity benefits I could get by using even my best corded headphones.
Plus, cords always seem to get in the way or snag on things, unless I'm sitting at my desk. And then, I can just jack into my hi-fi rig.
> i guess i've been super lucky to never have a issue then.
Yeah, any issues I've had tended to be so rare that the only one I can even think of is that an old Nexus phone I had eventually would fail to unlock. That's after I'd had it on for a long time, and it was fixed with a simple reboot. But I'd had it for 3 years and was already in the market for a new phone, anyway.
I would actually agree that android slowly, but surely locks down more and more. Instead of alternative of ios, it's really becoming the same but without the benefits of ios. Quite sad, loved the old days when android was more tech savvy OS with a lot of options - linux with a skin with low number of restrictions and easy unlock for total removal of any restrictions.
That sensor bar had me hoping it included ToF or structured light, but I don't see anyone saying it does.
All the AI stuff in these phone is an anti-feature, specifically *because* it's Google. It just means they have that many more ways to spy on you. For instance, they can use AI to infer from sensors like your accelerometer and microphone a lot about what you're doing, even without engaging the camera. And who's to say they won't use it, as well.
I always disable Google Assistant on my phone, but you can't really be sure they're not still listening to everything you say.
So they probably have the most capable ML/NN SoC in the universe (might help, that Kirins are gone).
They also have hardware security enclaves, they don't really want to talk about.
If you buy one of these phones, you'll pay for them and in theory at least, you also own them. But will these ML and security capabilities work for you?
That's what I very much doubt. The NN accelerators will enable Google to "know you better" and more deeply with far less energy consumption--continously, most likely--instead of just sporadically. The security enclaves will enable Google to run "their stuff" completely out of sight and separate from any malware that somehow passes through the quality controls of their app store.
But again, what does that do for you? What's the value for you?
Google wants to be Google & Apple & Microsoft & rule the world (without any of the responsibility) and they certainly want to evade accountability, competition, scrutiny, monopoly charges etc.
They need to gain traction on the device front to make that happen.
So if you don't see how what Google wants benefits you, I can only suggest you stick with Chinaware until some bean counter at Alphabet (or indeed some watchdog) stops this.
Do not fall for the trap of convenience and "intelligence" that Google is holding out!
You're worried about a phone having a secure enclave, but from your post, it's obvious that you don't even understand what a secure enclave is. Same goes for ML. Stop spreading FUD.
The 'Tensor' SoC no doubt will be very novel. The term 'custom' has been thrown around a lot in connection to Tensor/Whitechapel/GS-101. Used in a descriptive fashion there is no harm in the term but 'custom ARM processor' has a definite technical meaning and we don't yet know whether Tensor qualifies as custom in that technical sense.
A non-custom ARM processor is an ARM processor based on core and other IP licensed from ARM. Examples include powerful premium parts for smartphones, e.g. Snapdragon 888 or Exynos 2100, or ultra low power parts from the likes of ST Microelectronics and NXP. Most ARM based processors, as it happens, rely on IP licensed from ARM. A custom ARM processor, on the other hand, is one that doesn't rely on any processor or physical IP licensed from ARM but rather is developed entirely indepedently of ARM after an architectural license - essentially an ISA license - has been obtained from ARM. Apple silicon and NUVIA (recently acquired by Qualcomm) silicon, which we might see in 2022, fall into the custom ARM category.
Will Tensor be a genuine custom ARM part? Maybe, but I have my doubts. Based on some snippets of information that have a plausible ring to them (the Axios article that first mentioned Google's progress with its own mobile phone SoC is a suggestive source although some details from that article are yet to be confirmed), I suspect that the development of Tensor may have involved input from Samsung as a chip design partner and as a provider of some of the essential silicon pieces - think ARM CPU cores and DSU. Indeed, a number of reports have suggested that Samsung is exploring mutually beneficial projects aimed at expanding the market for specialised ARM silicon - jointly designed/specced (for sizeable clients) or, perhaps, merchant silicon to be sold under the Exynos brand - that, on the Samsung side, seems to be aimed at building up the scope of its silicon business, viz. into design services in addition to chip fabrication.
I have a slight hope that despite evident high end features of the Pixel 6 Google might yet be able to achieve a good value balance with its forthcoming phone models. Eschewing high end and high cost Cortex-X1 based silicon and instead using Cortex-A78 based tech, e.g. Exynos 1080, or more recent Cortex-A710 tech as a starting point might represent a more economical approach to building the processor that Google needs. And, once all of the novel AI bits have been added in to a finished sliver of silicon like that, such a part probably would strike a good balance between performance and energy efficiency, in any case.
Yeah I'm also intrigued by how tailored this design actually is. On the face of it, it looks like a semi-custom Exynos part throwing the Shannon modem in with ARM cores (my bet is standard cortex) and a customer NPU.
The weird thing is that the Pixel volumes are way to low to justify a custom tape-out. And the cellular connectivity means its not going to be a great fit for other Google devices like a Chromebook (don't need the modem at that price point) or a streaming devices (too high end).
So dunno if this is a merchant part Samsung will resell? Or if it gets reused as an Exynos? Or maybe Google does have that much money to burn? Peculiar..
I had, well still have, a Pixel 2 XL (Verizon) and switched to 12 Pro Max a few weeks ago. Primary reason is due to cessation of updates and the fact that Google allow Verizon to keep the phone locked.
From my perspective, and I am a PC user, Android is head and shoulders better than the iPhone OS in usability. If I used a Mac, it might be different Android has come along way to addressing accessibility to functions that matter. Apple hides functions that have real use...for instance...Location On/Off...Android is a swipe and toggle...Apple I have to deep dive into menu structure to turn on/off. Maybe I have not found the shortcut but it is a PITA.
Android: Messages on the PC...no problem. Works Great. For Apple...a definite...maybe? Try an emulator...nope...try the other emulator...$15/mth (or something)...uhhh...no thanks. Get a Mac...uhhh nope not gonna do that.
That is just the surface...I have quite a few other items that are just better on Android.
I am still on original Pixel XL and I do not see a reason to change. Photos are fine, battery still fine (I seldom load above 80%), 3.5mm is there, still have 50Gb empty storage, Real Racing 3 runs fine on this old hardware. No updates, I do not mind.
It's absolutely astounding that multi-billion dollar companies cannot succeed in creating a good phone. Just make it fully-featured and lightweight, and actually improve Android instead of ruining it. Only then will I be willing to pay the $1000.
I think Google's motives are more complex than simply making a phone that lots of people want to buy. They're probably also trying to shift what their competitors are building, as well as building something of a technology platform for rolling out new Android features and capabilities.
As I say all of that, I'm currently not planning on buying a Pixel phone. I won't say "never", but they seem overpriced and I question the value (for me) of some of their big features. I did have a Nexus phone and like the idea of a phone running stripped-down Android with 1st class support.
Google and Pixel seem to be on autopilot, just coasting in lockstep with Apple and Samsung, maybe a bit behind.
It would be neat if they built a new, sane OS. We're about 20 years overdue for **instant computing**. Given the advances in CPU, GPU, RAM, and solid states storage performance at this point, there's no excuse for computers to not be instant with respect to user actions (except for heavy processing tasks like video transcoding or similar). I mean that every mundane action should happen instantly, where "instantly" means some fraction of a second, like 200 ms, maybe 100 ms. Apps should open in 200 ms at most – I mean the fullest sense of open, fully loaded/displayed and ready to receive user input. Anything a user does in an app, typically via a mouse click or screen tap, should complete in 200 ms or less, like a menu opening, file opening, etc. Keyboard latency should be super minimal. On mobile it should be touchscreen latency bound, and that touchscreen latency should be worked and worked and worked to get it as low as possible.
(I read somewhere that Apple had robustly targeted some low touchscreen latency level for the iPhone, and achieved it. I think it was some multiple of 100 ms, maybe 200 or 400, but I don't remember. It was supposed to be lower than Android's touchscreen latency. This was at least five years ago, and I'm not sure what the situation is today. I also read that Apple had achieved something very close to instant computing in recent iPads. It sounded like they had finally crossed the threshold of brute-forced instant computing, by having a sufficiently powerful CPU/GPU and maybe working the latency issue a bit.)
Today's computers are ridiculously slow, miles away from instant computing. Someone should take a first principles approach, and think about what is minimally required to render an application window on a digital display in response to a user action like a tap or mouse click. Right now, it must take millions of GPU cycles, maybe billions, which is wildly unacceptable and terrible systems engineering. The amount of time it takes to open an Android app is far greater than the published latency figures for flash storage, SSDs, etc. I'm usually on a current flagship, like now the Galaxy S21 with the Snapdragon 888, which has one Cortex-X1, three Cortex-A78 cores, four A55 cores, 8 GB of LPDDR5, and a UFS 3.1 flash storage interface. And yet, hardly any app opens instantly, and the browsers are all unacceptably slow.
Same with desktop like Windows 10. It would be great if Google really innovated and came up with a sane OS. It could also be fundamentally secure in ways not possible with legacy OSes and programming languages. I don't know if Flutter has any goals re: instant computing, but we should have landed on it by 2000 or so. Another bland phone running a legacy slow OS is just not worth the effort.
I'm also stumped by why smartphones are so thick. Anyone notice that Apple didn't actually make the iPhone thinner after removing the headphone port? They said it was partly to save space, in addition to their "courage" and so forth, but they never actually delivered any such benefit to their users – no shrinkage.
Smartphones have been getting slightly thicker recently, even though lots of these jerks have removed the headphone port. This is one area where I think thinner is better. Instead of obsessing over the thinness of their *desktop* computers (iMac), Apple should've made their mobile devices thinner.
For a smartphone, thinner and lighter is better. I'd really enjoy something at least a full millimeter thinner than the S21 and Pixel series. 6.5 mm would be a good target. Men don't have purses, so thickness and bulk hit us more since we have to put these beasts in our pockets. Smartphone are too large right now. It's ridiculous.
It's also crazy that they don't have headphone ports. That whole trend is just awful decision-making. There's no benefit to the user in removing that port, and it's damn near perfect for its purpose. Wired is always better than wireless, for both quality and battery. There's just no reason to replace such a simple and good solution with finicky and expensive and lower audio quality Bluetooth gadgets, wireless buds, etc. Especially those Apple ear thingies – they make people look exactly like Ben Stiller in "There's Something About Mary", when he opens the door to Cameron Diaz with something on his ear...
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gagegfg - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
Google's Pixel have lost popularityA5 - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
They never had it. Even the ones phone nerds think was "best" barely sold any units.hechacker1 - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
I'm hoping for an updated Nest Cam with a TPU at this point. It would be more popular than the Pixel.:P
sharath.naik - Thursday, August 12, 2021 - link
Agree, only this seems more by design than any lack of direction within google. In my opinion they will never release a phone with everything you need, as they donot want to compete with others. Their main revenue source is Playstore. So they will only release a sub par phone just with things they want to try out so that others can catch up. For exmaple this pixel 6 will likely have sub par battery life with <=4000mah battery(while others have 5000mah), these will have only 12mp 4x zoom and a 12mp ultra wide camera sensor, seriously limiting its zoom range and it landscape capabilities.sharath.naik - Wednesday, August 18, 2021 - link
Looks like I may be wrong. Rumors leaks suggest, 5000mah battery and a 48MP 4x camera. If this is true, google would have finally released a phone that is not shortchanged in any practical way to its competition.sharath.naik - Thursday, August 12, 2021 - link
Currently VIVO x60 proplus is the only phone that has not nerfed its features either for future upgrade market (Like Samsung did with s21 utlra) or limiting feature so as to not compete like google does.sharath.naik - Monday, September 6, 2021 - link
Anandtech can you give an option to edit or delete comments. Its a bit silly to not give an option to retract comments.hechacker1 - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
Looks like a fancy battery pack. I wonder how the front looks.All that matters is performance. Materials UI, meh. So many choices (if you like our pastel color pallet mixer).
shabby - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
Here's hoping for 5 years of updates 🤞🤞🤞NextGen_Gamer - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
Corrections to be made: The Verge article is based on their actual hands-on and official info given to them by Google. So I don't think there needs to be "presumably" and "assumed" words when mentioning their specs, as it is straight from the device maker. On that note, they flat out say the Pixel 6 Pro is a 6.7" QHD+ 120Hz screen, while the Pixel 6 is a 6.4" FHD+ 90Hz screen.hechacker1 - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
After this article was posted, I went to YouTube and saw the Verge and Marques had more info.Might as well update your article.
A5 - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
The bar reminds of the Nexus 6P as much as anything.Silver5urfer - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
Tits on a Boar. Pixel is a dead brand since it's inception. That HW has nothing really stable. Always has issues from Hardware and Software you can literally search for problems with these devices this is not just now, it has been since Nexus but those were at-least made better price and user customization friendly.This phone is going to be priced at iPhone level and have all mediocre trash Software. Android with 12 is a huge downgrade from the NAND speed and NAND access thanks to Scoped Storage. UI/UX due to inability to be innovative and unique instead dumbdown the whole OS. There are so many issues with Android nowadays, AAB bundles, lots of issues with Bootloader unlocks due to fused partition layout system and new Safety Net & all those fools at Google use iPhones and Macs, there's no point in expecting any good user controllable OS at this point. The infection of Apple is too strong.
I didn't even mention the lack of 3.5mm jack and SD card slot, which I should never expect from a cloud company. On top this phone will have an inferior ARM design chip, means it's DOA thanks to RDNA2 and Adreno GPUs on top which will crush it. Only Pixel fans will buy this. As for muh stock Android, well that OS is trash. More proprietary Google junkware than AOSP.
What sort of NPU / AI thing that is going to help me doing things better than say a Samsung or OnePlus or any X Chinese device or Sony flagship from HW or SW perspective ? More data collection I suppose. That's it. Nothing much, they are sinking more money onto this Pixel division since 2016, it never had any growth until a year, still their N. A Marketshare is just 2.1%. Ultimate failure of a device.
LG failed from 10%+ in 2016 to 4% in 2020 but Google was less than 3% and still is lmao.
It hurts to see how Android has been derailed into such a useless consumption based OS from it's roots of having a powerful open alternative to that Jail called Apple.
goatfajitas - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
Wow... That is a whole lot of negative. Its really not all that bad. AS many issues as it has, I switched to IOS for 5 months and switched back to Android because its still a far better experience to me. Apple still has gut wrenchingly horrible keyboard and a the homescreen still sucks. They still cant get notifications or widgets right either... Neither gets multitasking done as well as the 2009 Palm Pre did... Ugh.Dizoja86 - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
You can always depend on Silver5urfer to type entire paragraphs out just to whine. The only person who takes him seriously is himself.Silver5urfer - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
Cope hard and get rekt Pixel shill crowd.Dizoja86 - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
Exactly the kind of response I'd expect. How embarrassing for you, but you probably don't even realize it.Silver5urfer - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
That is about Android vs iOS. Yeah what you said is correct, I don't even use iPhone because I hate that notch and lack of a direct connection to PC. But Android is trash nowadays. However combined with Google's failure HW and Even worse SW it is an utter sham of a device.goatfajitas - Tuesday, August 3, 2021 - link
There arent a whole lot of choices. The Smartphone world is pretty much a choice between using Android with its flaws or IOS with its flaws.boozed - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
Show us on the doll where they touched yougeo2160 - Tuesday, August 3, 2021 - link
So much mental gymnastics and so much misinformation to prove that >google bad. You don't even have proof for half of your statements.Also, remember this: as soon as smartphones became payment capable devices, security had to become better, much better. Just because you don't use those features doesn't mean they're not important.
mode_13h - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
The thought-experiment I find most troubling would be a ransomware attack on phones. If there were an easily accessible exploit that could enable phones to be hacked, just imagine what would happen if a significant fraction of the population woke up to find their phone bricked, until their carrier or government paid like $1B.mode_13h - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
Any readers of this site will know the difference between a custom ARM core and a Cortex-A that's licensed.As for licensing a custom core from Samsung, frequent readers of this site will also know that Samsung disbanded its ARM core design group, about 2 years ago.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15061/samsung-to-ce...
Fulljack - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
good things Android™ are open source and most common phones has community support with custom ROM (still based on AOSP) that has cherry picked codes which you can review it according to your use.smartphone are only as dumb as it's users.
imaheadcase - Wednesday, August 4, 2021 - link
You literally listed nothing that is common problem with %99.9 of users. Me thinks you are just a nerd throwing out data that has no real meaning on actual people.Who the hell cares about a SD card slot or headphone jack in 2021? I've never seen a time i needed them. lol
Also that market share stat..uhh what the hell are you talking about. I hardly know anyone with iphones except girls now. Every guy i know has one, and they are not even nerds at all. lol
"always has issues with hardware and software". Ok bud, i guess i've been super lucky to never have a issue then. So much for always right.
mode_13h - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
> Who the hell cares about a SD card slot or headphone jack in 2021?I'll admit that I based a phone-buying decision in 2018 because it had a headphone jack. However, once I got Bluetooth headphones that supported AptX HD and Sony's equivalent, I decided their quality was good enough that lowering of the noise floor-lowering by noise cancellation revealed more detail than any fidelity benefits I could get by using even my best corded headphones.
Plus, cords always seem to get in the way or snag on things, unless I'm sitting at my desk. And then, I can just jack into my hi-fi rig.
> i guess i've been super lucky to never have a issue then.
Yeah, any issues I've had tended to be so rare that the only one I can even think of is that an old Nexus phone I had eventually would fail to unlock. That's after I'd had it on for a long time, and it was fixed with a simple reboot. But I'd had it for 3 years and was already in the market for a new phone, anyway.
cha0z_ - Thursday, August 5, 2021 - link
I would actually agree that android slowly, but surely locks down more and more. Instead of alternative of ios, it's really becoming the same but without the benefits of ios. Quite sad, loved the old days when android was more tech savvy OS with a lot of options - linux with a skin with low number of restrictions and easy unlock for total removal of any restrictions.mode_13h - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
That sensor bar had me hoping it included ToF or structured light, but I don't see anyone saying it does.All the AI stuff in these phone is an anti-feature, specifically *because* it's Google. It just means they have that many more ways to spy on you. For instance, they can use AI to infer from sensors like your accelerometer and microphone a lot about what you're doing, even without engaging the camera. And who's to say they won't use it, as well.
I always disable Google Assistant on my phone, but you can't really be sure they're not still listening to everything you say.
mode_13h - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
The upside for Google is obvious. Instead of buying and running their own hardware to spy on you, *you* buy it *and* pay for the electricity!abufrejoval - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
That's progress!From simply "being the product" we advance to "paying to be the product"!
goatfajitas - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
We all say that... Then we go Google things. LOLWereweeb - Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - link
You go Google things*There are other options.
abufrejoval - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
So they probably have the most capable ML/NN SoC in the universe (might help, that Kirins are gone).They also have hardware security enclaves, they don't really want to talk about.
If you buy one of these phones, you'll pay for them and in theory at least, you also own them.
But will these ML and security capabilities work for you?
That's what I very much doubt. The NN accelerators will enable Google to "know you better" and more deeply with far less energy consumption--continously, most likely--instead of just sporadically. The security enclaves will enable Google to run "their stuff" completely out of sight and separate from any malware that somehow passes through the quality controls of their app store.
But again, what does that do for you? What's the value for you?
Google wants to be Google & Apple & Microsoft & rule the world (without any of the responsibility) and they certainly want to evade accountability, competition, scrutiny, monopoly charges etc.
They need to gain traction on the device front to make that happen.
So if you don't see how what Google wants benefits you, I can only suggest you stick with Chinaware until some bean counter at Alphabet (or indeed some watchdog) stops this.
Do not fall for the trap of convenience and "intelligence" that Google is holding out!
geo2160 - Tuesday, August 3, 2021 - link
You're worried about a phone having a secure enclave, but from your post, it's obvious that you don't even understand what a secure enclave is. Same goes for ML. Stop spreading FUD.boozed - Monday, August 2, 2021 - link
Well that's going to be a polarising designjamesindevon - Tuesday, August 3, 2021 - link
Does the "G" stand for Geordi La Forge?ChrisGX - Tuesday, August 3, 2021 - link
The 'Tensor' SoC no doubt will be very novel. The term 'custom' has been thrown around a lot in connection to Tensor/Whitechapel/GS-101. Used in a descriptive fashion there is no harm in the term but 'custom ARM processor' has a definite technical meaning and we don't yet know whether Tensor qualifies as custom in that technical sense.A non-custom ARM processor is an ARM processor based on core and other IP licensed from ARM. Examples include powerful premium parts for smartphones, e.g. Snapdragon 888 or Exynos 2100, or ultra low power parts from the likes of ST Microelectronics and NXP. Most ARM based processors, as it happens, rely on IP licensed from ARM. A custom ARM processor, on the other hand, is one that doesn't rely on any processor or physical IP licensed from ARM but rather is developed entirely indepedently of ARM after an architectural license - essentially an ISA license - has been obtained from ARM. Apple silicon and NUVIA (recently acquired by Qualcomm) silicon, which we might see in 2022, fall into the custom ARM category.
Will Tensor be a genuine custom ARM part? Maybe, but I have my doubts. Based on some snippets of information that have a plausible ring to them (the Axios article that first mentioned Google's progress with its own mobile phone SoC is a suggestive source although some details from that article are yet to be confirmed), I suspect that the development of Tensor may have involved input from Samsung as a chip design partner and as a provider of some of the essential silicon pieces - think ARM CPU cores and DSU. Indeed, a number of reports have suggested that Samsung is exploring mutually beneficial projects aimed at expanding the market for specialised ARM silicon - jointly designed/specced (for sizeable clients) or, perhaps, merchant silicon to be sold under the Exynos brand - that, on the Samsung side, seems to be aimed at building up the scope of its silicon business, viz. into design services in addition to chip fabrication.
I have a slight hope that despite evident high end features of the Pixel 6 Google might yet be able to achieve a good value balance with its forthcoming phone models. Eschewing high end and high cost Cortex-X1 based silicon and instead using Cortex-A78 based tech, e.g. Exynos 1080, or more recent Cortex-A710 tech as a starting point might represent a more economical approach to building the processor that Google needs. And, once all of the novel AI bits have been added in to a finished sliver of silicon like that, such a part probably would strike a good balance between performance and energy efficiency, in any case.
https://www.axios.com/scoop-google-readies-its-own...
Jon Tseng - Tuesday, August 3, 2021 - link
Yeah I'm also intrigued by how tailored this design actually is. On the face of it, it looks like a semi-custom Exynos part throwing the Shannon modem in with ARM cores (my bet is standard cortex) and a customer NPU.The weird thing is that the Pixel volumes are way to low to justify a custom tape-out. And the cellular connectivity means its not going to be a great fit for other Google devices like a Chromebook (don't need the modem at that price point) or a streaming devices (too high end).
So dunno if this is a merchant part Samsung will resell? Or if it gets reused as an Exynos? Or maybe Google does have that much money to burn? Peculiar..
jcbenten994 - Tuesday, August 3, 2021 - link
I had, well still have, a Pixel 2 XL (Verizon) and switched to 12 Pro Max a few weeks ago. Primary reason is due to cessation of updates and the fact that Google allow Verizon to keep the phone locked.From my perspective, and I am a PC user, Android is head and shoulders better than the iPhone OS in usability. If I used a Mac, it might be different Android has come along way to addressing accessibility to functions that matter. Apple hides functions that have real use...for instance...Location On/Off...Android is a swipe and toggle...Apple I have to deep dive into menu structure to turn on/off. Maybe I have not found the shortcut but it is a PITA.
Android: Messages on the PC...no problem. Works Great. For Apple...a definite...maybe? Try an emulator...nope...try the other emulator...$15/mth (or something)...uhhh...no thanks. Get a Mac...uhhh nope not gonna do that.
That is just the surface...I have quite a few other items that are just better on Android.
Peskarik - Tuesday, August 3, 2021 - link
I am still on original Pixel XL and I do not see a reason to change.Photos are fine, battery still fine (I seldom load above 80%), 3.5mm is there, still have 50Gb empty storage, Real Racing 3 runs fine on this old hardware.
No updates, I do not mind.
flyingpants265 - Sunday, August 8, 2021 - link
It's absolutely astounding that multi-billion dollar companies cannot succeed in creating a good phone. Just make it fully-featured and lightweight, and actually improve Android instead of ruining it. Only then will I be willing to pay the $1000.mode_13h - Monday, August 9, 2021 - link
I think Google's motives are more complex than simply making a phone that lots of people want to buy. They're probably also trying to shift what their competitors are building, as well as building something of a technology platform for rolling out new Android features and capabilities.As I say all of that, I'm currently not planning on buying a Pixel phone. I won't say "never", but they seem overpriced and I question the value (for me) of some of their big features. I did have a Nexus phone and like the idea of a phone running stripped-down Android with 1st class support.
JoeDuarte - Tuesday, August 24, 2021 - link
Google and Pixel seem to be on autopilot, just coasting in lockstep with Apple and Samsung, maybe a bit behind.It would be neat if they built a new, sane OS. We're about 20 years overdue for **instant computing**. Given the advances in CPU, GPU, RAM, and solid states storage performance at this point, there's no excuse for computers to not be instant with respect to user actions (except for heavy processing tasks like video transcoding or similar). I mean that every mundane action should happen instantly, where "instantly" means some fraction of a second, like 200 ms, maybe 100 ms. Apps should open in 200 ms at most – I mean the fullest sense of open, fully loaded/displayed and ready to receive user input. Anything a user does in an app, typically via a mouse click or screen tap, should complete in 200 ms or less, like a menu opening, file opening, etc. Keyboard latency should be super minimal. On mobile it should be touchscreen latency bound, and that touchscreen latency should be worked and worked and worked to get it as low as possible.
(I read somewhere that Apple had robustly targeted some low touchscreen latency level for the iPhone, and achieved it. I think it was some multiple of 100 ms, maybe 200 or 400, but I don't remember. It was supposed to be lower than Android's touchscreen latency. This was at least five years ago, and I'm not sure what the situation is today. I also read that Apple had achieved something very close to instant computing in recent iPads. It sounded like they had finally crossed the threshold of brute-forced instant computing, by having a sufficiently powerful CPU/GPU and maybe working the latency issue a bit.)
Today's computers are ridiculously slow, miles away from instant computing. Someone should take a first principles approach, and think about what is minimally required to render an application window on a digital display in response to a user action like a tap or mouse click. Right now, it must take millions of GPU cycles, maybe billions, which is wildly unacceptable and terrible systems engineering. The amount of time it takes to open an Android app is far greater than the published latency figures for flash storage, SSDs, etc. I'm usually on a current flagship, like now the Galaxy S21 with the Snapdragon 888, which has one Cortex-X1, three Cortex-A78 cores, four A55 cores, 8 GB of LPDDR5, and a UFS 3.1 flash storage interface. And yet, hardly any app opens instantly, and the browsers are all unacceptably slow.
Same with desktop like Windows 10. It would be great if Google really innovated and came up with a sane OS. It could also be fundamentally secure in ways not possible with legacy OSes and programming languages. I don't know if Flutter has any goals re: instant computing, but we should have landed on it by 2000 or so. Another bland phone running a legacy slow OS is just not worth the effort.
JoeDuarte - Tuesday, August 24, 2021 - link
I meant millions of CPU cycles, not GPU.JoeDuarte - Tuesday, August 24, 2021 - link
I'm also stumped by why smartphones are so thick. Anyone notice that Apple didn't actually make the iPhone thinner after removing the headphone port? They said it was partly to save space, in addition to their "courage" and so forth, but they never actually delivered any such benefit to their users – no shrinkage.Smartphones have been getting slightly thicker recently, even though lots of these jerks have removed the headphone port. This is one area where I think thinner is better. Instead of obsessing over the thinness of their *desktop* computers (iMac), Apple should've made their mobile devices thinner.
For a smartphone, thinner and lighter is better. I'd really enjoy something at least a full millimeter thinner than the S21 and Pixel series. 6.5 mm would be a good target. Men don't have purses, so thickness and bulk hit us more since we have to put these beasts in our pockets. Smartphone are too large right now. It's ridiculous.
It's also crazy that they don't have headphone ports. That whole trend is just awful decision-making. There's no benefit to the user in removing that port, and it's damn near perfect for its purpose. Wired is always better than wireless, for both quality and battery. There's just no reason to replace such a simple and good solution with finicky and expensive and lower audio quality Bluetooth gadgets, wireless buds, etc. Especially those Apple ear thingies – they make people look exactly like Ben Stiller in "There's Something About Mary", when he opens the door to Cameron Diaz with something on his ear...