Tiger Lake still can’t ship with LPDDR5. Alder Lake won’t ship DDR5 in volume, either.
“RAM Support” is becoming a weasel word even for Intel’s standards. Which OEM asked for LPDDR5 in Tiger Lake? Any laptop OEMs ready to integrate that?
LPDDR4X has hit its stride.
Intel is still happy to announce things they’ll never ship in any serious volume, e.g., Cannon Lake, but it ticks off a buzzword for the next investor meeting.
That's the point? [LP]DDR5 is still too expensive for anything but servers and flagship products, and will continue being too expensive for another one or two years.
Seem to be a fair few mobile phones with it! Intel were quoting the performance gains of Xe in LPDDR5 configurations before launch, too, and touting it as a feature.
To be clear, I don't think it matters much either, just interesting to see their marketing versus reality.
Thanks Ian! Any word on whether Intel has been able to tweak its 10 nm Superfin process some more? Now would be a good time, before Alder Lake comes down the pipe.
I saw that, too. I was asking to see if Ian heard anything about that "enhancement"; as you wrote, whatever that means? Also wonder which CPUs are currently fabbed in "enhanced" SuperFin 10 nm? Just Tiger Lake U, or are there Xeons and 8 Core TLs on that node, too?
In logic, this is called moving the goal posts, mention Alder Lake as an excuse to talk about anything else besides Alder Lake.
No one will see an Alder Lake CPU for sale until Q1 2022 at the earliest in the retail channel, this so-called method dates back to the 6th generation Skylake in the fall quarter of 2015, some might arguably say it even dates back to 5th generation Broadwell in the fall of 2014. Thus. this is deserving of a meme, call it the Seven Stooges, seven generations at 14nm in seven years.
How many times does Intel have to pre-announce a product only to wait and see it show up several months later. It would appear that even AMD now understands this same Intel bait-and-switch trick (e. g. 5900X and 5950X).
Oh and I happen to own a killer i9-10980XE system, but it could have been a killer 5950X system if a certain part was readily available. Such are the plans of mice and ...
> even AMD now understands this same Intel bait-and-switch trick (e. g. 5900X and 5950X).
It started shipping when they said it would. Demand was just insane for perfectly understandable reasons they could do nothing about.
> it could have been a killer 5950X system if a certain part was readily available.
Their only option was to delay the launch to build up more inventory, which probably means you'd have still gotten the Intel system. The least bad option is to launch the product as soon as it's ready, so that at least *some* people can start using them.
Permit me a little pedantry: what you describe is bait-and-switch, not "moving the goalposts". Moving the goalposts requires making an argument, receiving a refutation, and then changing the predicates of the initial argument to invalidate the refutation, while claiming that the argument has not changed but the refutation was incorrect.
You can bookmark our website for Fresh Content. <a href="https://pinoyflix.net/"><b>Pinoy Lambingan</b></a> first drama site to release the latest episodes of All new Dramas.
You clearly did not understand, Intel is shipping Alder Lake to its ODM, bad mouthing Intel is not going help you, it only shows how ignorance you are.
Currently available slow DDR5 modules will degrade performance of notebook system by 24-37% compared to 4233MHZ LPDDR4 bcs of latencies,
DDR5 will be first announced in intel SOCs, in first time for intel - in 6 channel configuration. glued on top of cpu, like apple does it on their SOCs in late august
Notebooks are sensitive to dram speed because they are using it for both CPU and GPU unlike desktop which uses ram only for cpu and utilizing dedicated gpu with its own ram, so there you can have DDR5 with higher throughput but lower latencies.
So no, Intel desktops with integrated GPU's do not use DRAM only for the CPU.
That is the main reason as to why I have ALWAYS used a dedicated GPU on any desktop system (Intel or AMD) that I have ever used to date. I don't have laptops anymore, but even there, I would still prefer dedicated GPU's. It always comes back to page faults, just like in them there olden days.
About the only time where raw DRAM speed is important is in file compression benchmarks where the memory is accessed in a somewhat more sequential manner (still has to go through the various caches and their size limitations) AFAIK.
> That is the main reason as to why I have ALWAYS used a dedicated GPU on any desktop system
What is? Because you're afraid it'll impact CPU performance? AFAIK the impact is negligible, as long as you're not stressing the iGPU at the same time as you're giving the CPU cores a workout.
I get the better end of things. I'm a full 12 hours off time zone, so at least these mid-morning press conferences are in the evening for me. For poor Ian it was at something like 3 in the morning. And we have to do this all over again for tonight's AMD and NV keynotes.
I hope you guys at-least review the 3080Ti FE cards. Forget AIBs, just FE, we need the uArch analysis for the Nvidia changing how the TF calculation works and other parts. As for AMD, I do not know, their GPUs are not even existing, it's worse than Nvidia and AIBs are even more insanely priced.
When I have a lot to get done, I sometimes sip on a sugar-free energy drink more as a psychological cue to remind me of the days when I was pulling all-nighters and chugging the stuff.
I drink green tea for my health. Never been a big coffee drinker, but I prefer light roast.
Green tea is pretty nice. I have a cup now and then. But daily, it's black tea, with milk and no sugar. Sometimes I leave out the milk and that makes a nice strong brew. As for coffee, I actually don't have it. I think I got the tea addiction from my grandparents on both sides.
> allowing for a premium gaming experience with a mobile processor.
In a desktop enclosure, making the fact that it's a mobile processor effectively moot! If they didn't say it was a mobile processor, most people wouldn't know or care.
And we know it has essentially the specs of a desktop CPU, anyhow.
But, it's a 4-core 8-thread CPU with AVX-512 and a 96 EU GPU.
The question isn't really what are the minimum clocks under load, but rather how much time does it spend at them. Most of the time, it should be able to run the cores a fair bit faster than that.
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ikjadoon - Sunday, May 30, 2021 - link
Tiger Lake still can’t ship with LPDDR5. Alder Lake won’t ship DDR5 in volume, either.“RAM Support” is becoming a weasel word even for Intel’s standards. Which OEM asked for LPDDR5 in Tiger Lake? Any laptop OEMs ready to integrate that?
LPDDR4X has hit its stride.
Intel is still happy to announce things they’ll never ship in any serious volume, e.g., Cannon Lake, but it ticks off a buzzword for the next investor meeting.
HideOut - Sunday, May 30, 2021 - link
Isn't this Computex 2021, not 2020?Yojimbo - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Why do you say it can't? Decisions on RAM support come down to RAM availability and market demand. I'm sure it can do it, they just choose not to.Wereweeb - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
That's the point? [LP]DDR5 is still too expensive for anything but servers and flagship products, and will continue being too expensive for another one or two years.Spunjji - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
Seem to be a fair few mobile phones with it! Intel were quoting the performance gains of Xe in LPDDR5 configurations before launch, too, and touting it as a feature.To be clear, I don't think it matters much either, just interesting to see their marketing versus reality.
eastcoast_pete - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Thanks Ian! Any word on whether Intel has been able to tweak its 10 nm Superfin process some more? Now would be a good time, before Alder Lake comes down the pipe.sandeep_r_89 - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
It says right there in the slides that it's "Enhanced" Super Fin, whatever that means. That's probably the tweaking you're looking for.Wereweeb - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
10nm+++eastcoast_pete - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
I saw that, too. I was asking to see if Ian heard anything about that "enhancement"; as you wrote, whatever that means? Also wonder which CPUs are currently fabbed in "enhanced" SuperFin 10 nm? Just Tiger Lake U, or are there Xeons and 8 Core TLs on that node, too?Everett F Sargent - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
In logic, this is called moving the goal posts, mention Alder Lake as an excuse to talk about anything else besides Alder Lake.No one will see an Alder Lake CPU for sale until Q1 2022 at the earliest in the retail channel,
this so-called method dates back to the 6th generation Skylake in the fall quarter of 2015, some might arguably say it even dates back to 5th generation Broadwell in the fall of 2014. Thus. this is deserving of a meme, call it the Seven Stooges, seven generations at 14nm in seven years.
How many times does Intel have to pre-announce a product only to wait and see it show up several months later. It would appear that even AMD now understands this same Intel bait-and-switch trick (e. g. 5900X and 5950X).
Oh and I happen to own a killer i9-10980XE system, but it could have been a killer 5950X system if a certain part was readily available. Such are the plans of mice and ...
mode_13h - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
> even AMD now understands this same Intel bait-and-switch trick (e. g. 5900X and 5950X).It started shipping when they said it would. Demand was just insane for perfectly understandable reasons they could do nothing about.
> it could have been a killer 5950X system if a certain part was readily available.
Their only option was to delay the launch to build up more inventory, which probably means you'd have still gotten the Intel system. The least bad option is to launch the product as soon as it's ready, so that at least *some* people can start using them.
bji - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Permit me a little pedantry: what you describe is bait-and-switch, not "moving the goalposts". Moving the goalposts requires making an argument, receiving a refutation, and then changing the predicates of the initial argument to invalidate the refutation, while claiming that the argument has not changed but the refutation was incorrect.pinoyflix - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
You can bookmark our website for Fresh Content. <a href="https://pinoyflix.net/"><b>Pinoy Lambingan</b></a> first drama site to release the latest episodes of All new Dramas.mode_13h - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
SpammerJimbo123 - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
You clearly did not understand, Intel is shipping Alder Lake to its ODM, bad mouthing Intel is not going help you, it only shows how ignorance you are.igor velky - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Currently available slow DDR5 modules will degrade performance of notebook system by 24-37% compared to 4233MHZ LPDDR4bcs of latencies,
DDR5 will be first announced in intel SOCs,
in first time for intel - in 6 channel configuration.
glued on top of cpu, like apple does it on their SOCs
in late august
Notebooks are sensitive to dram speed because they are using it for both CPU and GPU unlike desktop which uses ram only for cpu
and utilizing dedicated gpu with its own ram,
so there you can have DDR5 with higher throughput but lower latencies.
Everett F Sargent - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
AFAIK, all Intel desktop CPU's with integrated GPU's use system DRAM ...https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/ar...
So no, Intel desktops with integrated GPU's do not use DRAM only for the CPU.
That is the main reason as to why I have ALWAYS used a dedicated GPU on any desktop system (Intel or AMD) that I have ever used to date. I don't have laptops anymore, but even there, I would still prefer dedicated GPU's. It always comes back to page faults, just like in them there olden days.
For ballpark latencies just multiply 2X CAS divided by speed (e. g. I have CL15 at 4GHz so 2*15/4 = 7.5ns) AFAIK ...
https://www.crucial.com/articles/about-memory/diff...
About the only time where raw DRAM speed is important is in file compression benchmarks where the memory is accessed in a somewhat more sequential manner (still has to go through the various caches and their size limitations) AFAIK.
mode_13h - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
> That is the main reason as to why I have ALWAYS used a dedicated GPU on any desktop systemWhat is? Because you're afraid it'll impact CPU performance? AFAIK the impact is negligible, as long as you're not stressing the iGPU at the same time as you're giving the CPU cores a workout.
dontlistentome - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
The 30x52mm size for M2 modems is standard - every one i've seen on M2 has been that size. https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed...sandeep_r_89 - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Hm, true. My laptop atleast has such a slot.philehidiot - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Ian, do you sleep? Lolmode_13h - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Today is also a public holiday, in the UK.Well, at least he can sleep in (one hopes). In the UK, I think that's called "having a long lie-in".
eek2121 - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
Fun fact: also a holiday in the US (memorial day).Ryan Smith - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
"Ian, do you sleep? Lol"During Computex? No, there is no sleep here.
I get the better end of things. I'm a full 12 hours off time zone, so at least these mid-morning press conferences are in the evening for me. For poor Ian it was at something like 3 in the morning. And we have to do this all over again for tonight's AMD and NV keynotes.
Silver5urfer - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
I hope you guys at-least review the 3080Ti FE cards. Forget AIBs, just FE, we need the uArch analysis for the Nvidia changing how the TF calculation works and other parts. As for AMD, I do not know, their GPUs are not even existing, it's worse than Nvidia and AIBs are even more insanely priced.RealBeast - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
3080Ti? That's all I need, to be teased about another GPU that I can't afford with all the miners running prices up.mode_13h - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
When I have a lot to get done, I sometimes sip on a sugar-free energy drink more as a psychological cue to remind me of the days when I was pulling all-nighters and chugging the stuff.I drink green tea for my health. Never been a big coffee drinker, but I prefer light roast.
mode_13h - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
Oops, meant to reply to GeoffreyA's, below.GeoffreyA - Saturday, June 5, 2021 - link
Green tea is pretty nice. I have a cup now and then. But daily, it's black tea, with milk and no sugar. Sometimes I leave out the milk and that makes a nice strong brew. As for coffee, I actually don't have it. I think I got the tea addiction from my grandparents on both sides.Jorgp2 - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
What energy drinks do you guys consume?GeoffreyA - Thursday, June 3, 2021 - link
I suppose copious quantities of camellia sinensis and the brew of the scented bean.GeoffreyA - Thursday, June 3, 2021 - link
We are grateful. Thank you.mode_13h - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
> allowing for a premium gaming experience with a mobile processor.In a desktop enclosure, making the fact that it's a mobile processor effectively moot! If they didn't say it was a mobile processor, most people wouldn't know or care.
And we know it has essentially the specs of a desktop CPU, anyhow.
Spunjji - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
Yeah, this should be the first example of it performing to its potential, assuming the cooling is set up welliranterres - Monday, May 31, 2021 - link
1,2GHz at 12W?! Nice joke Intel... Nice to see they've refreshed their new oven line-up with even less power efficient versions!mode_13h - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
But, it's a 4-core 8-thread CPU with AVX-512 and a 96 EU GPU.The question isn't really what are the minimum clocks under load, but rather how much time does it spend at them. Most of the time, it should be able to run the cores a fair bit faster than that.
iranterres - Tuesday, June 1, 2021 - link
I agree with you, but there's definitely a scaling problem there...Spunjji - Friday, June 4, 2021 - link
It does appear to fall very hard off a cliff below 20WNaurang khan - Saturday, January 22, 2022 - link
You can bookmark our website for fresh content.You can watch all your favorite drama serials,movies and Kshows <a href="https://dramacool1.com/">Dramacool1.com<...Naurang khan - Saturday, January 22, 2022 - link
You can bookmark our website for fresh content.You can watch all your favorite drama serials,movies and Kshows Dramacool1.com