A bit of creature comfort too, as they run at lower temp in general in this form factor it's a difference of burning your hands or just feeling warm. Same performance, less juice does most in smaller laptops. BTW I am glad intel caught up with performance, it means the game is still on, and soon we will see even more. If intel guys/bots read this, please sip the juice like a gentleman....
And there is a difference between 'selling something' and having supply so low none of your customers can actually buy it because your manufacturing process still sucks.
8GB and small SSD models are there to increase lot sizes for ordering hw manufacturing and to keep the entry level price points low for people who don't need much hw, but still want nice machines.
The 13.5-inches laptops with the same processor appear to use LPDDR4X-3733MHz, like the Intel ones. If true, it would make that choice all the more curious. If it is meant to be the cheapest model, why include a high-end processor and potentially 32GB of the ram? More probable is that all AMD models are hampered by the use of slow DDR4, instead of LPDDR4X.
Ddr4 2400 might be slower but it uses far more power than lpddr4x. Lp meaning low power for a reason. Hopefully this is just a weird typo? The 13in all seem to have lpddr4x but 15in gives amd slower power hungry memory? Weird
Microsoft seems intent on pissing off even the mildly informed tech enthusiast. Yes I'm glad we finally have more AMD options, but only using last year's model; (was this a bone thrown to intel to make them seem closer in the inevitable comparisons of this device?) They also basically disable the traces on tiger lake which has built in thunderbolt on the SOC, Why doesn't Microsoft want to cater to us their customers? I guess it is all about cost saving and selling in bulk to universities... I guess thats fine; but could you have a high end model that gives us the latest chips and best connectivity options? Is that too much to ask?
If I read the lineup tables correctly, there doesn't seem to be SKU with AMD + 32GB? Only the i7 seems to get 32GB, other are limited to 16GB. Also the 1TB SSD is limited to i7 models.
No user customization allowed, even bootloader is hard to bypass I only see very old Surface HW capable of running Linux. After certain usage period, battery will die and you cannot even replace it, glued down hw, will break a lot of stuff if try to open. Custom BS processor and on top of Windows10 as a service with perpetual alpha updates to ruin and computer.
Best way to spend the hard earned cash on such a product, Bonus pack - dumb UI to make oneself think even dumber.
Ofc I don't even need them because I have better computers. I'm merely expressing my disgust against these useless products with all shine outside but having absolute junk inside them.
Computers are not consumables they should be robust machines not some fancy social media garbage, which is what Smartphones are mostly used for. Remember the word Computer, that is pretty much going dodo now.
Oh yeah, you can buy 100 of them, and support these business practices for what it's worth.
Even tough I like the harware design and improved battery life, I am a bit disappointed by the limitations of the technical specifications and the lack of disruptive innovations on new Microsoft Surface Laptop 4.
It is only an incremental improvement that is also missing out on some great features like Thunderbolt 4, PCIe4 SSD,...
I wish Microsoft has two category of Surface laptop (Surface laptop / Surface Laptop Pro) and that they would use the Pro category to iteratively introduce disruptive improvements like : 1. Bootable Persistent Memory (Pmem) on the memory bus to significantly lower latency 2. 3K 14-inches LTPO OLED display with 1Hz to 120Hz always-on functionalities (or near 4K 16/10 format) 3. Both 3D 1080p/60fps webcam compatible with Windows Hello and Biometric fingerprint reader in power button 4. Fanless design for fully quiet PC 5. 5G SIM / e-SIM 6. Much, much better battery life of at least 30hours... 7. Smaller 30W power adapter (ideally the size of 5W Apple iPhone power adapter) 8. Slimmer and lighter design (less than 1kg)
That is just a few ideas... As some important engineering work would be needed (especially Persistent Memory), it would better fit a more expensive line-up first like Surface Laptop Pro...
Guessing that the "DDR4-2400" spec is a copy/paste holdover from the Surface Laptop 3 chart. The Microsoft website seems to indicate LPDDR4X all around for Surface Laptop 4.
The copy/paste error was on the Microsoft spec sheet they sent us, but you are correct - the website shows LPDDR4x across the board so I've updated the table.
Whats the difference between 4980U and a 4800U? The Article's title says custom ryzen but then doesn't say what is special about it. Like that's a big missing detail from this Article.
None of the Articles have that information. 3780U had one extra graphics CU compared to the 3700U, same clocks. This time, I expect same number of CUs, +100 MHz CPU clock. Microsoft's "custom" AMD and Qualcomm chips have been a big waste of time so far.
A year ago Microsoft revealed that it considered the direct memory access capabilities of Thunderbolt ports a security risk, such as during standby or power-on (DMA attack, Thunderspy).
Maybe the custom AMD chips are primarily to secure a supply chain manufactured in a different factory? In the past, Microsoft has offered Trade-Agreements Act (TAA) Compliant models for people and organizations who prefer to do business with and trust allies with open free-trade economies (and democratically elected governments).
Security concerns might also be why the custom chips come many months after the mainline chips are released. The Predictive Store Forwarding story last week might be an issue that could lead Microsoft to delay or avoid any chips with it, while they investigate the attack and its workarounds.
How can microsoft be soo disappointing Every single time they have launched surface laptops with outdated processors Launching Zen 2 parts when the whole industry has moved onto Zen 3 is annoying Don't understand when will microsoft learn
Lots of people upset these aren't Cezanne Zen 3, and no disagreement here. But it's curious that the 4680u and 4980u (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/surface-l... are nearly identically specced as the Lucienne Zen 2 5500u and 5700u:
5500u - 6-core/12-thread, 2.1GHz base/4.0GHz boost, Vega 7 @ 1800MHz. So the same specs as the 4680u except we don't know the GPU clock for 4680u.
5700u - 8-core/16-thread, 1.8GHz base/4.3GHz boost, Vega 8 @ 1900MHz. Here the 4980u has a higher base clock of 2.0Ghz and a slightly higher boost of 4.4GHz. Again the MS specs don't list the GPU clockspeed.
The assumption is the SL4 won't have the memory and efficiency optimizations and improvements that Lucienne get, but is that actually true since these are slightly custom Surface Edition chips? I remember for SL3 either AMD or MS talked about how working together produced improvements that would be shared with other OEMs. Could 4680u and 4980u have improvements to Renoir that actually made it into Lucienne?
These clowns must think that just because Apple makes a ton a money by removing headphone jacks, Microsoft can somehow make a ton of money by removing thunderbolt functionality.
The form factor is beautiful, but it's time to grab a clue on usability Microsoft.
In the world MS inhabits, time seems to flow backward. So after Zen3, comes Zen 2!! Why can't MS offer the latest and the greatest to its customer? The offering of ports is also meagre. Perhaps the Surface team will realize its folly just like its mobile team, after everyone has left for the apples land.
Microsoft did it again! Are they serious? Is it always going to be like this with MS using 1 gen older processors? No USB 4 either. Also, what is the actual battery capacity instead of "upto bs hours". Are they still using that weird small form factor SSD?
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thsrj - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
And people said there will be an 8 core Tiger LakeYB1064 - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Quite telling when the Ryzen parts offer an extra 2 hours of battery life.deil - Wednesday, April 14, 2021 - link
A bit of creature comfort too, as they run at lower temp in general in this form factor it's a difference of burning your hands or just feeling warm.Same performance, less juice does most in smaller laptops.
BTW I am glad intel caught up with performance, it means the game is still on, and soon we will see even more.
If intel guys/bots read this, please sip the juice like a gentleman....
ArcadeEngineer - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
What? 8-core Tiger Lake-H is an announced product, it's not a rumour.thsrj - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
TGL-H is as real as the dual core i3-8121U of late 2017, which infamously had yields into the single digits.ArcadeEngineer - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
You realise intel are selling 40-core ice lake parts now, right? There's no reason to think 8 is going to be any kind of problem.Operandi - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
And there is a difference between 'selling something' and having supply so low none of your customers can actually buy it because your manufacturing process still sucks.rahvin - Sunday, April 18, 2021 - link
Are you seriously suggesting the $30K processor that's almost impossible to buy is a real competitor?nandnandnand - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
I'm guessing the customization isn't something cool like double the graphics CUs or an updated VCN. Just a 100 MHz clock bump or whatever.nico_mach - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
MS only claims improved battery life.meacupla - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
APU choice is good, at least for the 13.5 size.I don't understand why microsoft insists on keeping 8GB models.
The GPU portion on these APUs want at least 512MB.
zepi - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
8GB and small SSD models are there to increase lot sizes for ordering hw manufacturing and to keep the entry level price points low for people who don't need much hw, but still want nice machines.lutenic - Monday, April 19, 2021 - link
8 GB models are fine for use in many companies for regular office work.Sttm - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Microsoft using 2019 CPUs to compete against Apple using its own custom silicon is just stupid.damianrobertjones - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Well... at the moment Apple is competing against Apple.hanselltc - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Can't even be arsed to use Lucienne. How fitting of Surface products, everything under the casing screams mediocre.nandnandnand - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
But it's custom!damianrobertjones - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
"What does Lucienne mean? Lucienne as a name for girls is of Latin origin"Eh?
5080 - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
What's the deal with the AMD system and DDR4-2400MHz RAM. Even the cheapest notebooks today offer at least 3200MHz RAM.Rudde - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
The 13.5-inches laptops with the same processor appear to use LPDDR4X-3733MHz, like the Intel ones. If true, it would make that choice all the more curious. If it is meant to be the cheapest model, why include a high-end processor and potentially 32GB of the ram?More probable is that all AMD models are hampered by the use of slow DDR4, instead of LPDDR4X.
The slower speed might save power.
Ej24 - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Ddr4 2400 might be slower but it uses far more power than lpddr4x. Lp meaning low power for a reason. Hopefully this is just a weird typo? The 13in all seem to have lpddr4x but 15in gives amd slower power hungry memory? WeirdBrett Howse - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Apparently this was an error on the spec sheet Microsoft sent me. Their website shows LPDDR4x on all models. I've updated the table.Chaitanya - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
512GB ssd is quite limiting and would have liked to see 1TB offerings..jvl - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
That's just in the table - the screenshots of the SKUs show 1TB options for all =)Chaitanya - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
according to SKU screenshots, Ryzen based ones are restricted to 512GB max which is a shame. at this point I dont want to buy Intel based laptop.damianrobertjones - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
...for you.jvl - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Same starting price as a MBA, thinner, and it has USB-A. Nice!jvl - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Plus (and I feel bad for not adding it on the OP) you can upgrade the freaking SSD! Not paying the robber baron prices of The Fallen Fruit!cbutters - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Microsoft seems intent on pissing off even the mildly informed tech enthusiast. Yes I'm glad we finally have more AMD options, but only using last year's model; (was this a bone thrown to intel to make them seem closer in the inevitable comparisons of this device?) They also basically disable the traces on tiger lake which has built in thunderbolt on the SOC, Why doesn't Microsoft want to cater to us their customers? I guess it is all about cost saving and selling in bulk to universities... I guess thats fine; but could you have a high end model that gives us the latest chips and best connectivity options? Is that too much to ask?Mikad - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
If I read the lineup tables correctly, there doesn't seem to be SKU with AMD + 32GB? Only the i7 seems to get 32GB, other are limited to 16GB. Also the 1TB SSD is limited to i7 models.damianrobertjones - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
You are correct. Only the intel has 1Tb and 32Gb ram.Silver5urfer - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Use and throw garbage.No user customization allowed, even bootloader is hard to bypass I only see very old Surface HW capable of running Linux. After certain usage period, battery will die and you cannot even replace it, glued down hw, will break a lot of stuff if try to open. Custom BS processor and on top of Windows10 as a service with perpetual alpha updates to ruin and computer.
Best way to spend the hard earned cash on such a product, Bonus pack - dumb UI to make oneself think even dumber.
damianrobertjones - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Then don't buy it. Also don't buy any apple product, or most mobile phones. those days are pretty much gone.Silver5urfer - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Ofc I don't even need them because I have better computers. I'm merely expressing my disgust against these useless products with all shine outside but having absolute junk inside them.Computers are not consumables they should be robust machines not some fancy social media garbage, which is what Smartphones are mostly used for. Remember the word Computer, that is pretty much going dodo now.
Oh yeah, you can buy 100 of them, and support these business practices for what it's worth.
Diogene7 - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Even tough I like the harware design and improved battery life, I am a bit disappointed by the limitations of the technical specifications and the lack of disruptive innovations on new Microsoft Surface Laptop 4.It is only an incremental improvement that is also missing out on some great features like Thunderbolt 4, PCIe4 SSD,...
I wish Microsoft has two category of Surface laptop (Surface laptop / Surface Laptop Pro) and that they would use the Pro category to iteratively introduce disruptive improvements like :
1. Bootable Persistent Memory (Pmem) on the memory bus to significantly lower latency
2. 3K 14-inches LTPO OLED display with 1Hz to 120Hz always-on functionalities (or near 4K 16/10 format)
3. Both 3D 1080p/60fps webcam compatible with Windows Hello and Biometric fingerprint reader in power button
4. Fanless design for fully quiet PC
5. 5G SIM / e-SIM
6. Much, much better battery life of at least 30hours...
7. Smaller 30W power adapter (ideally the size of 5W Apple iPhone power adapter)
8. Slimmer and lighter design (less than 1kg)
That is just a few ideas... As some important engineering work would be needed (especially Persistent Memory), it would better fit a more expensive line-up first like Surface Laptop Pro...
LarsBars - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Guessing that the "DDR4-2400" spec is a copy/paste holdover from the Surface Laptop 3 chart. The Microsoft website seems to indicate LPDDR4X all around for Surface Laptop 4.Brett Howse - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
The copy/paste error was on the Microsoft spec sheet they sent us, but you are correct - the website shows LPDDR4x across the board so I've updated the table.GoldenBullet - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Whats the difference between 4980U and a 4800U? The Article's title says custom ryzen but then doesn't say what is special about it. Like that's a big missing detail from this Article.nandnandnand - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
None of the Articles have that information. 3780U had one extra graphics CU compared to the 3700U, same clocks. This time, I expect same number of CUs, +100 MHz CPU clock. Microsoft's "custom" AMD and Qualcomm chips have been a big waste of time so far.s.yu - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Not just outdated, but overpriced.Not just overpriced, but outdated.
Gc - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
A year ago Microsoft revealed that it considered the direct memory access capabilities of Thunderbolt ports a security risk, such as during standby or power-on (DMA attack, Thunderspy).Maybe the custom AMD chips are primarily to secure a supply chain manufactured in a different factory? In the past, Microsoft has offered Trade-Agreements Act (TAA) Compliant models for people and organizations who prefer to do business with and trust allies with open free-trade economies (and democratically elected governments).
Security concerns might also be why the custom chips come many months after the mainline chips are released. The Predictive Store Forwarding story last week might be an issue that could lead Microsoft to delay or avoid any chips with it, while they investigate the attack and its workarounds.
Kishoreshack - Wednesday, April 14, 2021 - link
How can microsoft be soo disappointingEvery single time they have launched surface laptops with outdated processors
Launching Zen 2 parts when the whole industry has moved onto Zen 3 is annoying
Don't understand when will microsoft learn
lazybum131 - Thursday, April 15, 2021 - link
Lots of people upset these aren't Cezanne Zen 3, and no disagreement here. But it's curious that the 4680u and 4980u (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/surface-l... are nearly identically specced as the Lucienne Zen 2 5500u and 5700u:5500u - 6-core/12-thread, 2.1GHz base/4.0GHz boost, Vega 7 @ 1800MHz. So the same specs as the 4680u except we don't know the GPU clock for 4680u.
5700u - 8-core/16-thread, 1.8GHz base/4.3GHz boost, Vega 8 @ 1900MHz. Here the 4980u has a higher base clock of 2.0Ghz and a slightly higher boost of 4.4GHz. Again the MS specs don't list the GPU clockspeed.
The assumption is the SL4 won't have the memory and efficiency optimizations and improvements that Lucienne get, but is that actually true since these are slightly custom Surface Edition chips? I remember for SL3 either AMD or MS talked about how working together produced improvements that would be shared with other OEMs. Could 4680u and 4980u have improvements to Renoir that actually made it into Lucienne?
grant3 - Saturday, April 17, 2021 - link
These clowns must think that just because Apple makes a ton a money by removing headphone jacks, Microsoft can somehow make a ton of money by removing thunderbolt functionality.The form factor is beautiful, but it's time to grab a clue on usability Microsoft.
Hubert Satheesh - Sunday, April 18, 2021 - link
In the world MS inhabits, time seems to flow backward. So after Zen3, comes Zen 2!! Why can't MS offer the latest and the greatest to its customer? The offering of ports is also meagre. Perhaps the Surface team will realize its folly just like its mobile team, after everyone has left for the apples land.isthisavailable - Sunday, April 18, 2021 - link
Microsoft did it again! Are they serious? Is it always going to be like this with MS using 1 gen older processors? No USB 4 either.Also, what is the actual battery capacity instead of "upto bs hours". Are they still using that weird small form factor SSD?