And you think they haven't done that before? Did you think you just discovered power shortages and natural disasters for the first time in human history? Dumb Americans, always think you are ahead when you are FAR behind without foreign talent.
on spot bro, they always think they know everything while in fact they know nothing and talking bla bla bla without thinking, and here you have a perfect example with this dumb mofu above you.
Context makes it clear English is likely not their first language. Why does it matter that they slightly botched an idiomatic expression when the meaning is still quite obvious?
and who the f.uck are you to tell me how to speak or write? what this has to do with the context, article or OP comment??
seems you are just a passing by butthurt cunt that has nothing to add or reply rather than being an English policeman and thats exactly proving the point of dotjaz, thanks for giving me another perfect example.
It's one of the reasons I have so little view time on anandtech for the last few years, it was supposed to be a website that you could discuss tech in depth, not throw monkey poo at each other.
Yeah, these kids today--they see a snowstorm hit somewhere out of season, or a hurricane--or tornado--and having never seen these things before, it's "The sky is falling--climate change is killing us all--we're going to die!" America currently has the most stupid "press" in living memory (our broadcast press peddles more dumb left-wing political dogma than fact)--and I've been around for a while. The current Congress is even sometimes more stupid than the press! I'm just glad I got an education in the US when it meant something, and when people were smart enough to draw a line between political claptrap and fact.
You are confusing weather with climate. Don't be *that* uneducated person who sprouts nonsense...
But congrats! You got an education in the USA! But... Clearly it looks like it failed you if you don't know the difference between Climate and Weather.
Sounds more like you just don't like the evolution of education and think that retaining obsolete information makes you intelligent. Facts don't care about your feelings, friend.
WaltC, nice try in trolling. The truth of course is that the GOP and the right wing press has successfully gaslit and brainwashed millions of folks into believing many big lies, including that global warming is a hoax, Covid-19 is a hoax, the election was a fraud, Trump will be reinstalled as president 3 months ago, wait, 2, make that 1, oops, any day now, Congress is controlled by cannibals, and the Cali wildfires were started by Jewish lasers from space. One of the many tragedies here is that science has died in these folks, leaving America less competitive with foreign competition. Biden is trying hard to save some of these folks, but the jury's still out on whether the hard-core far right ones are too far gone to become functioning members of society again or should just be written off as enemies of the state and rational thinking.
I love Anandtech for the articles, but also because the community is educated, informative, and respectful. I humbly ask that we resist the urge to turn the forums in to a mud slinging contest. By all means argue the nature of a technical point for the enlightenment of all, but please leave out the parts that attack personal traits.
That was a bit harsh. The OP has a very valid point. I do not think any fab plans to have a 100% state wide power outage that last 3+ days. The usually try to get multiple grids to feed them but if all the grids collapse for three days they will be down for most of that time.
Americans are dumb, blah blah - thank you for communicating this message on an entire ecosystem built by American ingenuity - Satellites, semiconductors, operating systems, android, iphone, gps, arpanet, etc...
PS You are welcome for the Covid vaccine - a product of the crappiest health care system in the world!
Texas grid failure was down to the exact same factors as the last two Texas mass power grid failures. Check P.176 of the report on the 2011 grid failure (https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/0... that basically says "here's what we told you to fix after the 1989 gird failure to prevent it happening again. You didn't do any of it, and the same thing happened again. Fix it this time or it will happen again". Surprise surprise, they didn't do any of it and it happened yet again.
Doubt it. The DRAM oligopoly has been staying put in capital projects for years anticipating the Chinese supply, like when the Korean/Taiwanese broke the Japanese monopoly. Those big freshly build facilities in China are now all dead in the water because of Trump. Sk Hynix is investing now because of the inevitable windfall that are coming to the de facto trust is now secured well into the foreseeable future.
Assuming that number ($ 106 Billion) is correct, I wonder who is lending SK Hynix that amount of money to invest? I don't believe their entire company is currently worth that much.
That is what I am also wondering about. Yes, it's clear that this is investment over several years, but it's still interesting that they announced the numbers officially. Publicly traded companies have limits how outlandish their announcements can be, so SK likely has some letters of intent for financing already. A government guarantee or similar makes banks a lot more willing to lend big bucks.
"Given the expected size of the massive building and the amount of time needed to folly load it with production equipment,..." "fully" not "folly": "Given the expected size of the massive building and the amount of time needed to fully load it with production equipment,..."
funny thing, i one place where GiB should be used, isnt!... lol, don’t get me started on linux use of Gib when internet speed is listed... (your need to convert the speed to bit per second for the “real” number... before calculating the amount of data... (mixed Mib and Gib, nightmare, but i digress)
sorry i am WAY OFF on the 256Gib sticks... so much i do not think they exist... i was pricing out the ram on a 2 dual core and 7702 Motherboard... (whatbox seedbox uses amd 7702... was wondering if the prices were “reasonable)...” in any case, the 64GiB stick is accurate... (a 128GiB stivk is 1706 dollars... i was way off) sorry
DIMMs are 8 or 16 chips each for DDR4, and there are at least 2 DIMMs per PC, so its 15-30 million PCs worth of memory per month, which is a lot, but not as enormous as it initially sounds.
That would be 180-360 million PCs worth of memory per year. Last year 275 million PCs were sold. It is as enormous as it initially sounds. These new Fabs will double SK Hynix' capacity. Not that for DRAM, all of it.
The pressure to move to a baseline of 64G is coming on fast. 32 doesn't cut it for anything but email grandmas these days. Heck, even 2022 phones are talking about 20/24G. Annual memory consumption will gladly eat every bit of capacity anyone is going to bring online in the next decade.
The problem with converting financial capital into physical capital: you're asking for intractable average cost, since no matter how much you shift to customers, you still have to pay off the notes. So you have to maximize output to spread all that amortization as thinly per unit as possible. Of course, if you're the only producer that's not so much a problem. Otherwise, yeah it is, since you along with your 'competitors' are all in the same boat. Some kinds of goods are just capital intensive, and labor scarce, so there's virtually 0 opportunity to trade machines for hands if demand slackens. IOW, SK (and their lenders, if any) are betting that there'll be so much demand increase from today's output level. They'll see.
I don't get it, aren't lithography and etching heavily correlated? 1st you lithography a pattern on to a light sensitive mask layer on the wafer, then etching on that, how can one use one of the technology without the other? I know DRAM and NAND are vastly different and no wonder it's manufacturing process could be vastly different too, but I don't see how one can be lithography heavy and the other be etching heavy.
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webdoctors - Friday, April 2, 2021 - link
After what happened in Texas I wonder if half the cost is just ensuring its got adequate water, power plants and its earthquake proof being in Asia...dotjaz - Saturday, April 3, 2021 - link
And you think they haven't done that before? Did you think you just discovered power shortages and natural disasters for the first time in human history? Dumb Americans, always think you are ahead when you are FAR behind without foreign talent.YazX_ - Saturday, April 3, 2021 - link
on spot bro, they always think they know everything while in fact they know nothing and talking bla bla bla without thinking, and here you have a perfect example with this dumb mofu above you.LarsBolender - Saturday, April 3, 2021 - link
spot on*If you wanna be a dick at least learn to speak/write properly.
skavi - Monday, April 5, 2021 - link
Context makes it clear English is likely not their first language. Why does it matter that they slightly botched an idiomatic expression when the meaning is still quite obvious?YazX_ - Monday, April 5, 2021 - link
and who the f.uck are you to tell me how to speak or write? what this has to do with the context, article or OP comment??seems you are just a passing by butthurt cunt that has nothing to add or reply rather than being an English policeman and thats exactly proving the point of dotjaz, thanks for giving me another perfect example.
29a - Monday, April 5, 2021 - link
JealousyOxford Guy - Tuesday, April 6, 2021 - link
What is it with all the teenybopper angst flooding this place lately?Crazyeyeskillah - Saturday, April 10, 2021 - link
It's one of the reasons I have so little view time on anandtech for the last few years, it was supposed to be a website that you could discuss tech in depth, not throw monkey poo at each other.JimmyZeng - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
Not pointing fingers but I'm guessing it's the GPU shortage driving everybody to their edge.Crazyeyeskillah - Saturday, April 10, 2021 - link
this website used to talk about technology, now it's just another breeding ground for infighting.sweetca - Saturday, September 10, 2022 - link
Chess-mate!WaltC - Saturday, April 3, 2021 - link
Yeah, these kids today--they see a snowstorm hit somewhere out of season, or a hurricane--or tornado--and having never seen these things before, it's "The sky is falling--climate change is killing us all--we're going to die!" America currently has the most stupid "press" in living memory (our broadcast press peddles more dumb left-wing political dogma than fact)--and I've been around for a while. The current Congress is even sometimes more stupid than the press! I'm just glad I got an education in the US when it meant something, and when people were smart enough to draw a line between political claptrap and fact.StevoLincolnite - Saturday, April 3, 2021 - link
You are confusing weather with climate.Don't be *that* uneducated person who sprouts nonsense...
But congrats! You got an education in the USA! But... Clearly it looks like it failed you if you don't know the difference between Climate and Weather.
Dizoja86 - Saturday, April 3, 2021 - link
Sounds more like you just don't like the evolution of education and think that retaining obsolete information makes you intelligent. Facts don't care about your feelings, friend.GetItStraight - Monday, April 5, 2021 - link
WaltC, nice try in trolling. The truth of course is that the GOP and the right wing press has successfully gaslit and brainwashed millions of folks into believing many big lies, including that global warming is a hoax, Covid-19 is a hoax, the election was a fraud, Trump will be reinstalled as president 3 months ago, wait, 2, make that 1, oops, any day now, Congress is controlled by cannibals, and the Cali wildfires were started by Jewish lasers from space. One of the many tragedies here is that science has died in these folks, leaving America less competitive with foreign competition. Biden is trying hard to save some of these folks, but the jury's still out on whether the hard-core far right ones are too far gone to become functioning members of society again or should just be written off as enemies of the state and rational thinking.Jp7188 - Monday, April 5, 2021 - link
I love Anandtech for the articles, but also because the community is educated, informative, and respectful. I humbly ask that we resist the urge to turn the forums in to a mud slinging contest. By all means argue the nature of a technical point for the enlightenment of all, but please leave out the parts that attack personal traits.FreckledTrout - Monday, April 5, 2021 - link
That was a bit harsh. The OP has a very valid point. I do not think any fab plans to have a 100% state wide power outage that last 3+ days. The usually try to get multiple grids to feed them but if all the grids collapse for three days they will be down for most of that time.sweetca - Saturday, September 10, 2022 - link
Americans are dumb, blah blah - thank you for communicating this message on an entire ecosystem built by American ingenuity - Satellites, semiconductors, operating systems, android, iphone, gps, arpanet, etc...PS You are welcome for the Covid vaccine - a product of the crappiest health care system in the world!
edzieba - Wednesday, April 7, 2021 - link
Texas grid failure was down to the exact same factors as the last two Texas mass power grid failures. Check P.176 of the report on the 2011 grid failure (https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/0... that basically says "here's what we told you to fix after the 1989 gird failure to prevent it happening again. You didn't do any of it, and the same thing happened again. Fix it this time or it will happen again". Surprise surprise, they didn't do any of it and it happened yet again.Alistair - Friday, April 2, 2021 - link
Wow. Maybe we'll finally get cheaper ram? I bought 32GB of DDR3 for $100 10 years ago. Still costs more than $100 for DDR4 today... 10 years later...Tomatotech - Friday, April 2, 2021 - link
Was that server RAM? I remember some types of DDR3 were high-capacity and extremely cheap but only worked with server motherboards not desktop boards.It was annoying to see large amounts of used RAM sold off at extremely attractive prices, then realise it wouldn't work with your desktop.
wr3zzz - Friday, April 2, 2021 - link
Doubt it. The DRAM oligopoly has been staying put in capital projects for years anticipating the Chinese supply, like when the Korean/Taiwanese broke the Japanese monopoly. Those big freshly build facilities in China are now all dead in the water because of Trump. Sk Hynix is investing now because of the inevitable windfall that are coming to the de facto trust is now secured well into the foreseeable future.StevoLincolnite - Sunday, April 4, 2021 - link
Do you research the nonsense you sprout?Oxford Guy - Saturday, April 3, 2021 - link
$100 was worth about $120 ten years ago.eastcoast_pete - Friday, April 2, 2021 - link
Assuming that number ($ 106 Billion) is correct, I wonder who is lending SK Hynix that amount of money to invest? I don't believe their entire company is currently worth that much.Alistair - Saturday, April 3, 2021 - link
That is the total spent over a long period of time, and the fab will be financed from DRAM revenue. Market cap isn't a limit to what you can build.shing3232 - Saturday, April 3, 2021 - link
Thry probably have large government support.eastcoast_pete - Sunday, April 4, 2021 - link
That is what I am also wondering about. Yes, it's clear that this is investment over several years, but it's still interesting that they announced the numbers officially. Publicly traded companies have limits how outlandish their announcements can be, so SK likely has some letters of intent for financing already. A government guarantee or similar makes banks a lot more willing to lend big bucks.ballsystemlord - Friday, April 2, 2021 - link
Spelling and grammar errors:"Given the expected size of the massive building and the amount of time needed to folly load it with production equipment,..."
"fully" not "folly":
"Given the expected size of the massive building and the amount of time needed to fully load it with production equipment,..."
psel - Saturday, April 3, 2021 - link
Anybody knows how much server RAM retail cost is?Surfacround - Sunday, April 4, 2021 - link
supermicro approved ram... 256Gib about 1000 dollars each. 64GiB about 406 dollars a piece...(using google search should be your friend... https://store.supermicro.com/64gb-ddr4-3200-mem-dr...
funny thing, i one place where GiB should be used, isnt!... lol, don’t get me started on linux use of Gib when internet speed is listed... (your need to convert the speed to bit per second for the “real” number... before calculating the amount of data... (mixed Mib and Gib, nightmare, but i digress)
Surfacround - Sunday, April 4, 2021 - link
sorry i am WAY OFF on the 256Gib sticks... so much i do not think they exist... i was pricing out the ram on a 2 dual core and 7702 Motherboard... (whatbox seedbox uses amd 7702... was wondering if the prices were “reasonable)...”in any case, the 64GiB stick is accurate... (a 128GiB stivk is 1706 dollars... i was way off) sorry
zepi - Saturday, April 3, 2021 - link
If your die is 100mm² in size, you get about 600 dies per 300mm wafer. 800k wafers -> 480 million dies per month.Just about enough to provide 1cm² for every every adult on the planet once a year. How much ram is that?
Seems like a lot. But then again, android handsets are already shipping with 12-16GB each...
saratoga4 - Sunday, April 4, 2021 - link
DIMMs are 8 or 16 chips each for DDR4, and there are at least 2 DIMMs per PC, so its 15-30 million PCs worth of memory per month, which is a lot, but not as enormous as it initially sounds.smalM - Monday, April 5, 2021 - link
That would be 180-360 million PCs worth of memory per year. Last year 275 million PCs were sold.It is as enormous as it initially sounds.
These new Fabs will double SK Hynix' capacity. Not that for DRAM, all of it.
DougMcC - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
The pressure to move to a baseline of 64G is coming on fast. 32 doesn't cut it for anything but email grandmas these days. Heck, even 2022 phones are talking about 20/24G. Annual memory consumption will gladly eat every bit of capacity anyone is going to bring online in the next decade.Oxford Guy - Tuesday, April 6, 2021 - link
640K ought to be enough for anyone.FunBunny2 - Friday, April 9, 2021 - link
let me remember??Bill Gates
or
Matt Gaetz
bytes or bimbos?
FunBunny2 - Sunday, April 4, 2021 - link
The problem with converting financial capital into physical capital: you're asking for intractable average cost, since no matter how much you shift to customers, you still have to pay off the notes. So you have to maximize output to spread all that amortization as thinly per unit as possible. Of course, if you're the only producer that's not so much a problem. Otherwise, yeah it is, since you along with your 'competitors' are all in the same boat. Some kinds of goods are just capital intensive, and labor scarce, so there's virtually 0 opportunity to trade machines for hands if demand slackens. IOW, SK (and their lenders, if any) are betting that there'll be so much demand increase from today's output level. They'll see.JimmyZeng - Tuesday, April 13, 2021 - link
I don't get it, aren't lithography and etching heavily correlated? 1st you lithography a pattern on to a light sensitive mask layer on the wafer, then etching on that, how can one use one of the technology without the other? I know DRAM and NAND are vastly different and no wonder it's manufacturing process could be vastly different too, but I don't see how one can be lithography heavy and the other be etching heavy.