Possible but I'd think unlikely. The GPU "model numbers" seem to do little more than indicate the relative performance between them within the same category of chips. It doesn't have any other blocks with similar numbering to the SD 855 so I'd assume the GPU number is just a coincidence.
A look at geizhals.at (a price comparison and product search website) reveals the following numbers of models:
14 nm: 702 Comet Lake H, 553 Comet Lake U
10nm: 507 Ice Lake U, 20 Ice Lake Y, 9 Tiger Lake H35, 490 Tiger Lake UP3, 9 Tiger Lake UP4
Of course, this does not tell us how many CPUs are sold, but there are certainly current laptops that contain 14nm Intel CPUs (and for the "H"eavier laptops, I guess it's the vast majority).
Swing and a miss ther bud, all current comet lake CPUs are 14nm, and those make up a majority of currently available intel laptop CPUs. Only the tiger lake models are 10nm.
I know dunking on Intel is still the thing, but claiming that 10nm doesn't exist because 14nm is still sold is about as dumb as it gets. Would you say the same about TSMC 5nm because the vast majority of their non-apple products on the market today are still 7nm? Hell, they're probably still selling their 14-16nm class products.
Sure, Intel sells a bunch of 14nm products still, but it's silly to pretend 10nm isn't readily available just by searching "11th gen Dell" on Best Buy.
samsung 5nm is similar to tsmc 7nm which in turn is better than intel 10nm. 7nm tsmc ain't a whole lot better than 10nm intel, from what we can see from 1165g7 vs 4700u so I guess samsung 5nm is more of a marketing value, cause it ain't that much better than the broken 10nm from intel
Intel 10nm is designed to compete with TSMC 7nm Intel 7nm is designed to compete with TSMC 5nm
The process names (and numbers) don't line up across companies. You're comparing current generation fabs (Samsung/TSMC) with Intel's last generation fab. As for Intel's 7nm...
This SoC has zero Bluetooth capabilities, just like it has zero WiFi capabilities. Like the WiFi, BT is handled by separate silicon. The article suggests it will be paired with the FastConnect 6900 which does support BT 5.2. https://www.qualcomm.com/products/fastconnect-6900
Seems weird they wouldn't include mmWave. The 480 has it which is a budget chip, and the 765 had some decent success in the US last year with the OnePlus Nord, LG Velvet, TCL 10 among others.
Very nice upgrade! Wish they would ditch that dual channel memory controller. That will definately hold that GPU back and it will not get SD855 levels of graphics performance imo
Yeah, but i wonder how they managed to get 72% over the 765g. That would put it near the adreno 640 in the 855. Maybe some benchmark thats low on bandwidth requirement.
That 780 looks a lot more attractive than its big brother/sister, the 888. The one fly in the ointment is the restriction of DRAM choice (no LPDDR5), but that doesn't affect my everyday use that much; the added speed and lower power draw would have been nice, though. The apparent omission of mmWave in the 5G modem is no issue even stateside IMO; as pointed out, it's really only available in large urban centers, and even there it only really works in "line of sight" situations. Verizon could get it to work at full speed in large stadiums, but not many other places. I am due for a new phone, so waiting for Summer makes even more sense now. @Andrei: One thing I do wonder about is the power draw by the integrated 5G modem in the 888; did you have a chance to test that with the cellular modem on and off? 5G is reported to be a power hog; any truth to that?
And, had to get this standing complaint out of my system: why are stock ARM designs for the LITTLE cores (currently A55) still stuck on in-order execution after several years? Apple's small cores also have much better perf/W because they have had out-of-order execution for several generations by now. ARM seems to be all focused on big cores for servers and laptops these days (X1, Neoverse..), and the small cores haven't gotten much attention in recent years. However, those do matter a lot for smartphones; being able to stay on the LITTLE cores makes your battery last longer!
How much larger (transistor numbers) are the small cores from Apple vs. the A55? I might be off, but AFAIK they're not the 2-3 times larger that the performance differences suggest. Also, I read/heard that "ARM is working on new LITTLE cores" about 18 months ago. As you wrote, the A55 is getting a bit long in the tooth, and a successor is overdue. I guess we see the downside of the ARM monopoly for SoCs for Android phones here; there really isn't an alternative small core design out there right now.
I compared an A13 Die shot with a Kirin 990 Die shot. The small cluster of the A13 is 4.41 mm² (Anandtech). The A55 Cluster is 1.48 mm². So it is 3 times the size. And that is pretty obvious. The small cluster has already a huge 4 MB L2 Cache. The size is closer to the A76 Cluster (5.4 mm²) in the Kirin (without L3). But it is still impressive. The IPC is already A76 level. Total performance is 4x that of A55.
So the performance per mm² is not that impressive, though very good. Most impressive is the efficiency. And that is something ARM has to catch up. The big cores getting more powerful but less efficient. So they need better small cores. The Performance gap is too huge. Apple's Icestorm have 1/3 of the Performance of the firestorm. The A55 have 1/6 of the middle cores.
Does "triple" for the ISP refer to the "3x 25MP ZSL", or does it mean that the 780G can simultaneously run 3 cameras each capable of any of the listed resolutions/modes of operation?
It would be very intresting to see how well it compares to snapdragon 865 plus and 870 in terms of overall performance, it will be competing among the simillarly priced smartphones.
Although 780G seems to be a good chipset, my guess is that it will be significantly behind even to the regular 865 in both CPU and GPU (15-20% in CPU and even more in GPU performance).
The SD780G is looking like a very well balanced SoC. The modest clocks of the A78 cores should keep CPU cluster power consumption down while the GPU, DSP and ISP should ensure a good level of capability and performance.
Hi, what SoC is optimal for very good general performance in web browsing, apps, yt, camera and android launcher but NO Gaming. I have a feeling that when I buy 8xx Snapdragon I pay extra for gaming but I do not use it. Is that correct? Or maybe GPU is also used for web browsing?
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shabby - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
Is the adreno 642 basically an upgraded gpu from the sd855 which had the 840?shabby - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
err 640Wheres that edit button?!?
kpb321 - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
Possible but I'd think unlikely. The GPU "model numbers" seem to do little more than indicate the relative performance between them within the same category of chips. It doesn't have any other blocks with similar numbering to the SD 855 so I'd assume the GPU number is just a coincidence.jakky567 - Sunday, March 28, 2021 - link
Napkin math indicates performance in the same ballpark.Bluetooth - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
How does the Samsung 5nm process compare with TSMC 5nm and Intel 10nm processes?WPX00 - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
TSMC 5nm is much better than Samsung 5nm.leo_sk - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
Better than intel 10nm, worse than TSMC 5nmEthiaW - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
Lackluster performance&efficiency(comparable to TSMC early 7nm), but seems to be very cheap per transistor.shabby - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
What intel 10nm? 😂eek2121 - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
The one that all current laptops chips are built on?AntonErtl - Friday, March 26, 2021 - link
A look at geizhals.at (a price comparison and product search website) reveals the following numbers of models:14 nm: 702 Comet Lake H, 553 Comet Lake U
10nm: 507 Ice Lake U, 20 Ice Lake Y, 9 Tiger Lake H35, 490 Tiger Lake UP3, 9 Tiger Lake UP4
Of course, this does not tell us how many CPUs are sold, but there are certainly current laptops that contain 14nm Intel CPUs (and for the "H"eavier laptops, I guess it's the vast majority).
TheinsanegamerN - Monday, March 29, 2021 - link
"all current laptop chips"Swing and a miss ther bud, all current comet lake CPUs are 14nm, and those make up a majority of currently available intel laptop CPUs. Only the tiger lake models are 10nm.
Drumsticks - Monday, March 29, 2021 - link
I know dunking on Intel is still the thing, but claiming that 10nm doesn't exist because 14nm is still sold is about as dumb as it gets. Would you say the same about TSMC 5nm because the vast majority of their non-apple products on the market today are still 7nm? Hell, they're probably still selling their 14-16nm class products.Sure, Intel sells a bunch of 14nm products still, but it's silly to pretend 10nm isn't readily available just by searching "11th gen Dell" on Best Buy.
yeeeeman - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
samsung 5nm is similar to tsmc 7nm which in turn is better than intel 10nm. 7nm tsmc ain't a whole lot better than 10nm intel, from what we can see from 1165g7 vs 4700u so I guess samsung 5nm is more of a marketing value, cause it ain't that much better than the broken 10nm from intelweilin - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
Intel 10nm is designed to compete with TSMC 7nmIntel 7nm is designed to compete with TSMC 5nm
The process names (and numbers) don't line up across companies. You're comparing current generation fabs (Samsung/TSMC) with Intel's last generation fab. As for Intel's 7nm...
TSMC 5nm > Samsung 5nm > Intel 10nm
doomcrazy - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
Any information on Bluetooth capabilities? I would assume this supports BT 5.2?J0S3R - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
This SoC has zero Bluetooth capabilities, just like it has zero WiFi capabilities. Like the WiFi, BT is handled by separate silicon. The article suggests it will be paired with the FastConnect 6900 which does support BT 5.2.https://www.qualcomm.com/products/fastconnect-6900
WPX00 - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
Seems weird they wouldn't include mmWave. The 480 has it which is a budget chip, and the 765 had some decent success in the US last year with the OnePlus Nord, LG Velvet, TCL 10 among others.Wardrive86 - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
Very nice upgrade! Wish they would ditch that dual channel memory controller. That will definately hold that GPU back and it will not get SD855 levels of graphics performance imoiphonebestgamephone - Saturday, March 27, 2021 - link
Yeah, but i wonder how they managed to get 72% over the 765g. That would put it near the adreno 640 in the 855. Maybe some benchmark thats low on bandwidth requirement.eastcoast_pete - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
That 780 looks a lot more attractive than its big brother/sister, the 888. The one fly in the ointment is the restriction of DRAM choice (no LPDDR5), but that doesn't affect my everyday use that much; the added speed and lower power draw would have been nice, though. The apparent omission of mmWave in the 5G modem is no issue even stateside IMO; as pointed out, it's really only available in large urban centers, and even there it only really works in "line of sight" situations. Verizon could get it to work at full speed in large stadiums, but not many other places. I am due for a new phone, so waiting for Summer makes even more sense now.@Andrei: One thing I do wonder about is the power draw by the integrated 5G modem in the 888; did you have a chance to test that with the cellular modem on and off? 5G is reported to be a power hog; any truth to that?
eastcoast_pete - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
And, had to get this standing complaint out of my system: why are stock ARM designs for the LITTLE cores (currently A55) still stuck on in-order execution after several years? Apple's small cores also have much better perf/W because they have had out-of-order execution for several generations by now. ARM seems to be all focused on big cores for servers and laptops these days (X1, Neoverse..), and the small cores haven't gotten much attention in recent years. However, those do matter a lot for smartphones; being able to stay on the LITTLE cores makes your battery last longer!jeremyshaw - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
Apple small cores aren't that small vs A55. In the end, everything is a tradeoff.That being said, the A55 is somewhat old at this point. ARM has 3 main design teams, so it's likely one of them is working on it right now.
eastcoast_pete - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
How much larger (transistor numbers) are the small cores from Apple vs. the A55? I might be off, but AFAIK they're not the 2-3 times larger that the performance differences suggest. Also, I read/heard that "ARM is working on new LITTLE cores" about 18 months ago. As you wrote, the A55 is getting a bit long in the tooth, and a successor is overdue. I guess we see the downside of the ARM monopoly for SoCs for Android phones here; there really isn't an alternative small core design out there right now.KarlKastor - Monday, March 29, 2021 - link
I compared an A13 Die shot with a Kirin 990 Die shot. The small cluster of the A13 is 4.41 mm² (Anandtech). The A55 Cluster is 1.48 mm². So it is 3 times the size.And that is pretty obvious. The small cluster has already a huge 4 MB L2 Cache.
The size is closer to the A76 Cluster (5.4 mm²) in the Kirin (without L3).
But it is still impressive. The IPC is already A76 level. Total performance is 4x that of A55.
So the performance per mm² is not that impressive, though very good.
Most impressive is the efficiency. And that is something ARM has to catch up. The big cores getting more powerful but less efficient. So they need better small cores. The Performance gap is too huge. Apple's Icestorm have 1/3 of the Performance of the firestorm. The A55 have 1/6 of the middle cores.
TheinsanegamerN - Monday, March 29, 2021 - link
smaller in order cores are more efficient. They onyl handle basic instruction after all.DanNeely - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
Does "triple" for the ISP refer to the "3x 25MP ZSL", or does it mean that the 780G can simultaneously run 3 cameras each capable of any of the listed resolutions/modes of operation?Wardrive86 - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
Did they ditch the System cache?Stochastic - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
I’d like to see this in the Pixel 5a.Bob Todd - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
Indeed. We have finally hit a point where the midrange SOCs are getting quite powerful and exciting. The jump to quad A78 is awesome.dudedud - Thursday, March 25, 2021 - link
QC must be selling the "new" 860 dirty cheap because this 780 seems like a much better deal in all categories.ZolaIII - Friday, March 26, 2021 - link
Seams as first really interesting SoC from QC this year if indeed QC claims regarding performance show as true.Ski5i - Saturday, March 27, 2021 - link
It would be very intresting to see how well it compares to snapdragon 865 plus and 870 in terms of overall performance, it will be competing among the simillarly priced smartphones.lionking80 - Monday, March 29, 2021 - link
Although 780G seems to be a good chipset, my guess is that it will be significantly behind even to the regular 865 in both CPU and GPU (15-20% in CPU and even more in GPU performance).mfaisalkemal - Sunday, March 28, 2021 - link
With 72.5% GPU improvement over snapdragon 765g, I guess snapdragon 780g GPU performance will be the first midrange chip that throttling.iphonebestgamephone - Sunday, March 28, 2021 - link
Older 6 series chips throttled all the time.ChrisGX - Wednesday, March 31, 2021 - link
The SD780G is looking like a very well balanced SoC. The modest clocks of the A78 cores should keep CPU cluster power consumption down while the GPU, DSP and ISP should ensure a good level of capability and performance.https://www.anandtech.com/show/15813/arm-cortex-a7...
Chybil - Monday, April 5, 2021 - link
Hi, what SoC is optimal for very good general performance in web browsing, apps, yt, camera and android launcher but NO Gaming. I have a feeling that when I buy 8xx Snapdragon I pay extra for gaming but I do not use it. Is that correct? Or maybe GPU is also used for web browsing?