All the marketing in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans if your "gaming" products are bought up by 3rd party companies using scripts to get around quantity limits, to then literally flip a product in the marketplace of the same site they purchased from for double the price. Great artists ship product.
It's even worse than that. There's likely backroom deals where big scale miners contact the AIB and offers millions of dollars to buy the cards above MSRP before it even gets to the distributors. I'm pretty sure that's happening.
Yeah, the price table seems as useful as a third nipple. It feels like twisting the knife since the chances you find them at these prices are close to 0. I'm looking right now where I live and a 3080/6800XT actually cost 1500-2000E. Equally laughable when AMD and Nvidia insist they launch something at $499 when you know the only people who buy them at that price are scalpers who stock up upstream and then sell at 2x-3x the price to end users.
AMD is splitting the difference between the GeForce RTX 3070 and the GeForce RTX 3060 Ti. If it performs at or near the -3070 level, Radeon folks will be very, very happy.
AMD says it will have have "significantly more" RX 6700 XT stock at launch than it had of its first RDNA 2 cards last year. It remains to be seen, as does the next rabbit Dr Su has up her sleeves.
She and her team has delivered, and I look forward to AMD living 'rent free' in their competitor's heads ... HA!
Definitely there are backroom deals. I saw some of the RTX3060 were listed for sale 3 days before the official release date for $980/ea. Forgot the website name.
Well, once we have blockhchain everywhere, we will be able to buy from manufacturer directly, without middle-man and associated costs, and with proofe of purchase and proof of ownership. Won't we? :-)
That is not what is stopping manufacturers from dealing with the public at all. They sell 1000s at a time to a few different customers. That is wildly different from selling to 10s of thousands of customers and having to ship individual units.
Frankly, I'm looking forward to the DG2 review more than this anyway. I'm pretty confident that the 6700XT review will contain pretty much zero surprises, whereas the DG2 review will far more likely contain information that not just about anyone could calculate in advance to a precision of ±10%.
Yeah, I'm ok with them fleecing the miners. All modern video cards are effectively "pro" cards since they're being used to generate revenue, so price them accordingly.
I hope all crypto currencies crash soon and hard but that will likely never happen since most of the crooks in the banking industry and big corporates vowed support for them. And the all talk but no bite government can't do a damn thing about scalpers. Welcome to the real capitalism, suckers!
I noticed PALIT were selling their dual OC 3060 for just shy of £1,500 on Amazon UK on launch day. They were unavailable the following day. One of the reviews suggested it went as high as £1,700.
7nm yields are supposed to be very good and this die is much smaller so hopefully that helps AMD push way more of these to market and get prices where the belong.
Here it is March 3 and so far I've not been able to buy a 6800XT from any source, and I peruse them several times a day, every day since the announced availability last year. Now I'm being asked to believe these products will be available March 18th. I'll believe it when I see it.
Got very very very lucky. Friends with a system builder. He decided he wanted to get a different 6900XT to make a water cooled show case rig. I got the card he was going to use at a discount bc it's "used". Only ran long enough to make sure it was a working card.
I was thinking the same thing if they are able to get 2.5GHz the yields must be ridiculously good at this point. Or they are heavily binning to make this card but then I wonder what the hell the stubborn dies are going into...
@ Ryan Smith: If you go to AMD's product specification page for its graphics cards, you can see all of the following are confirmed, by AMD, for the Radeon 6700 XT: 64 ROPs, 160 TMUs, 2560 Stream Processors, 2321MHz Base / 2424MHz Game / 2581MHz (!) Boost clockspeeds, 192-bit memory interface, 16.00Gbps memory clockspeed, 384GB/sec of memory bandwidth and 96MB of Infinity Cache. The only thing I see missing at all is the transistor count.
@ Ryan Smith: You're welcome! I started always going to that page after an AMD event a couple years back, I think during the initial Zen+ announcement. I had noticed that AMD tends to put the full or nearly full details of their CPUs and GPUs on it, even if the formal/"real" PR event and press releases skipped over the majority of the specs of the products.
When is the 3060/3060ti competitors launching? I assume we'll be getting a cut down die harvested version of this chip so 3060ti competitor and then a new chip for the 3060 competitor?
According to reviewers, the 12 GB memory is literally useless in most applications, where that 12 GB would start to matter, the 3060 does not have the processing power to operate.
Right now no. If you keep your card for awhile though you eventually use it. This has been the case with older cards. Newer post.processing effects eat it up. I dont see this as being any diff. Consoles are the primary driver of games nowadays so as they share similar architecture, yeah, you may see a benefit. If you changed cards regularly, no worries.
Consoles like these cards are RDNA 2. Customized yes but still very similar. The storage is the main dif between the consoles themselves and PCs. That tech will come about in PCs soon enoigh. Like generations before, as we try to extract efficiencies out of consoles, the PC space will see improvements. Both Nvidia and AMD will benefit but AMD will bemefot from architecture specific enhancement same as last gen. If you want to see the effects of a frame buffer on games...check out WZ YT vids showing the diff. Can also play around with your own config file and change the vid memory ratio to see.
I'd like to see some numbers for new games from an older card with a large buffer for the time it released to back up your claims. A 980ti with 6GB for example.
The frame buffer is a direct result of a arch design. You can't just design something and later just say "slap 10GB on it" because it's bigger than 8GB. There's a reason the 6700xt has 12GB and 3060 also has 12GB. Also, there's cost assesment for a certain product. The 6700xt will be 5-10% slower than the 3070. Or else it would cost more (not that ir matters right now). I could go on forever...
Memory bus, not arch design. On a 192 bit bus you can do 1.5, 3, 6, or 12 GB with current memory chips. You cant do 10 GB without having some memory chips either running at half bit width (geforce 970) or doubling up memory only on certian channels (geforce 550ti, 660ti).
Those would be reviewers who aren't thinking clearly. The question isn't whether the 3060 needs 12GB, the question is whether or not it needs more than 6GB. Those are the choices with its memory bus - 6GB or 12GB. With the 6700 XT, and likely later the 6700, coming with 12GB, nVidia can't afford to release a 6GB card.
I'm tired of ppl spewing this nonsense. Benchmarks almost by definition use unmodified games.. Many games today support modding and texture mods are the most common. Its no problem at all to eat any amount of vram with mods while greatly improving the look of games. I have a 1080ti 11GB, and often have to dial back texture mods lest the game turn in to a slide show.
My GTX 1080 isn't "sexy" but the white LEDs on it are annoying in the corner of your eye. I solve that problem by having a case without a window. Quieter that way anyway.
Is there a point to this launch? The rest of their newest generation GPUs and CPUs are virtually unavailable unless one wants to spend stupid amounts of money on Ebay. I am not grasping the thinking here. AMD says, "Since nothing we make is available, let's split our product yet again to make another product that won't be available. But we priced it lower. Yeah! That will fix the problem."
They are not splitting their product... its a new line that uses a chip that is essentially about half the size of their higher end products. That means more dies available per wafer that can potentially go out to people. This is in reality a much needed product that will put out more overall product than their higher end offerings.
Will it be enough, probably not but its a step in the right direction. Especially when cut down versions of this chip will end up as lower down the stack options as well.
AMD doubling the number of GPUs they put out will not make a significant contribution towards meeting demand. They've had almost nothing so far. Miners don't seem to have them and gamers don't seem to have them. Besides, there's also more demand for the market segment that the 6700 XT is meant to service than there is for the 6800 market segment.
AMD have spent money developing, producing, and marketing it. And they need to sell it before it becomes less relevant.
There's also a market to sell them all, so they'd be stupid not too. These companies are afterall companies. Their duty is to their shareholders. Gamers have no right to hardware and no company has to sell or even produce it.
If the figures are accurate, losing about 1/3 of the die while gaining 25% in clock speed ought to make for about the same power consumption. If you go by FP32 throughput, it's using almost exactly the "right" amount of power compared to the 6800.
It's cut down but it's also clocked very high, hence the power consumption. The fact that AMD increased the game clock 38% over the 5700 XT while the TDP inches up just slightly is impressive and shows you the advantages of the infinity cache architecture. A comparison of the Navi10 and Navi22 die sizes would be interesting.
On techpowerup.com I found claims that Navi 22 is 335 mm^2 while Navi 10 is 251 mm^2. So that's a 33% increase in die size. And there's the disadvantage of the infinity cache architecture. Of course it's not an apples to apples comparison. They've added ray tracing transistors and their encoding/decoding blocks probably grew somewhat as well.
96MB of Infinity Cache is around 96mm^2 on TSMC 7nm. Not exactly, but rule of thumb for that node is 1mm^2 per MB of SRAM. So that accounts for the die size increase.
well it's a bit more than half a rx6900xt (half except memory(&-bandwidth) of which it has three fourths, plus higher clocks) at a bit less than a half the price. and much worse perf per watt (rx6900xt is 69gflops/watt, rx670xt is 54gflops/watt). so the rx6800xt at msrp remains the best deal by far.
For example 3060 with lower memory bandwidth and "mining limiter", of course it's less attractive to miners, but AFAICT it's still sold at around 2*MSRP by scalpers here in China.
I'm not sure if $/TFLOPS is a good way to compare different generations of GPUs but I agree with your general concern, my estimate is that the new 6700 XT will be 20-30% faster than the old 5700 XT, but the price of the GPU also increased by 20%, so the value for money is going to be roughly the same. AMD and nVidia both know that there is a GPU shortage and people will buy GPUs even if the value for money ratio does not improve, the only way this situation will improve is when supply/demand even out and competition increases between the two companies.
$/TFLOPS is a pretty good way to compare performance. I'm sure the GPU makers watch that ratio for each release wave. It's incredibly lame that at MSRP value for dollar hasn't changed one bit in 2 years, and then to top it off you can't even buy a GPU for MSRP. Everything is marked up to 2016 $/TFLOPS levels.
It's on the same manufacturing process and the die size went up, what else would you expect? It sucks, but that's the place we're at right now in this market.
Is it really a good idea to put MSRPs in headlines and ‘headline graphics’?
The most recent Nvidia card announcement, for instance, had people commenting about it selling out at up to $600+ at MicroCenter, despite your headline saying $370 or something.
Putting a tiny ‘theoretical MSRP’ disclaimer at the end of articles doesn’t really seem to be adequate to address the severity of the situation.
Intel is useless in the GPU space. Waiting around for it to get its act together has proven to be a failure. It would rather push junk like PLC.
What happened to competition? You know, when Google was invented there were a lot of search engines already. Some, like Metacrawler, even let people search all of them at once.
So, even though Google entered a rather mature area of the market that had satisfactory products we all know how consumers responded to a search that was better.
But, ask people to get off their duffs to bring some competition to the GPU space or foundries and, suddenly, we all have to be held hostage to Nvidia’s quest to keep breaking its revenue records while not coming close to meeting demand.
People need to stop pretending the USSR not only still exists but won the economics game.
How do you always find the most demented angle? The barrier to entry on CPU design was too high for even Samsung, and GPU design seems to be even higher in difficulty. Software is low barrier to entry by comparison unless it's artificial, say, US healthcare software.
Dunno how the USSR plays in, except that its land mass might not be as large as your ego?
The claim that it’s impossible to a competitive GPU for a third company is nonsense and the current state of the ‘competition’ makes it so ludicrous a claim that it’s no surprise that the claimant is tossing around ad homs.
AMD has a very large role in the current direness of the situation by choosing to not compete aggressively above the midrange for many many years.
AMD has also done nothing to reduce the attractiveness of its cards to miners, while Nvidia has done next to nothing.
Keep watching as Nvidia breaks its profitability records again and again and AMD allocates resources to the console scam. Don’t complain when, if you’re even allowed to find a product to buy that it’s seriously overpriced.
From the die shot it looks like it actually has 96 ROPs rather than 64. The clusters in the center of Big Navi are the ROPS, there are 16 of them, I presume there are 8 ROPs in each cluster. The Navi 22 die shot has them on the top right edge and there are 12 of them. From memory bandwidth / cache point of view 96 is perfect match to 96MB and 192 bits. This will give Navi 22 a very healthy boost in terms of fill rate and AA/z-buffer/blending performance.
Yes there looks to be 12 clusters, but, some might be disabled.
And official die shots are not guaranteed to be final, nvidia A100 die shots has 6 HBM stacks, which is highly unlikely given their 40/80GB total memory.
Interesting. The die shot surely fooled a lot of people. Tomshardware review also concluded it might has 96 ROP. Let just hope maybe the have some in reserve for a stronger model.
Can't even buy any cards right now. But let's launch a new version that no one can buy? Amd and nvidia can't keep any stock on the shelves but both launching new cards? Until they quit selling all the cards in backroom deals. No one is getting anything. Unless you pay x2-x3 for a card through a p.o.s scalper. And with no solution to this problem they launch new cards? It's amd and nvidia that are creating this problem. Putting a $479 price tag on a new card that we can't buy is a slap in the face.
Surely... at one point the Miners won't need any further cards as they're at the max?? Then why aren't these cards readily available? How many did each OEM make? Questions and questions.
It's amazing how suddenly this is happening, in the course of a few months I have gone from planning my next build to figuring out how to live without ever building another PC for the rest of my life. A $500 graphics card and it can't even drive 8K?!?!?!!!!!! FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!!!!
If I spend $1500 on an entire PC build I expect it to do absolutely everything imaginable and function as my primary PC for at least 6 years. Pricing on everything is just broken but the GPU is single handedly killing the PC industry right now.
This is even without all the weirdness going on related to crypto and mining. All a bunch of BS. Let's spend real money to make fake money that can't actually buy anything, brilliant!
I wish Bill Gates would just kill all this crypto BS and let GPU prices fall to where they need to be.
This is a $300 graphics card, FYI. If you pay 1 dollar more than that for this GPU YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!
The only difference is that the utterly astoundingly terribleness of the current situation is just barely getting people to think about prying the death grip Nvidia and AMD have on us off, in favor of a little actual competition.
Count how many years people waited for AMD to compete adequately at the high end. Think of all of that pent-up demand. Even Nvidia has its hand in promoting the console scam, although not as aggressively as AMD.
Then, let’s look at how many years Intel has had to make a good GPU and to get beyond 14nm.
How many years have people waited for AMD and Nvidia to sell cards to them at reasonable prices rather than to mining (and console peddlers).
If the current situation can’t convince people to break the chains and get a third GPU maker back into the gaming market nothing apparently will.
So I'm wondering what kind of GPU i can even get for $160 shipped, including taxes. I don't give a flying fuck about 4k or 8k, 1080p is where the human eye reaches its limitation anyway. So all this $400 GPU shit has gotta go. Is there even anything at all that's worth buying for $160 after taxes and shipping? I don't think there is... :/ WTF are you guys doing in CompSci?!
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B Huggy - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
All the marketing in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans if your "gaming" products are bought up by 3rd party companies using scripts to get around quantity limits, to then literally flip a product in the marketplace of the same site they purchased from for double the price. Great artists ship product.Pneumothorax - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
It's even worse than that. There's likely backroom deals where big scale miners contact the AIB and offers millions of dollars to buy the cards above MSRP before it even gets to the distributors. I'm pretty sure that's happening.B Huggy - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
But why would that be happening with both companies? Will be interesting to see their profit reports.at_clucks - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Yeah, the price table seems as useful as a third nipple. It feels like twisting the knife since the chances you find them at these prices are close to 0. I'm looking right now where I live and a 3080/6800XT actually cost 1500-2000E. Equally laughable when AMD and Nvidia insist they launch something at $499 when you know the only people who buy them at that price are scalpers who stock up upstream and then sell at 2x-3x the price to end users.philehidiot - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
OI! My third nipple is exceptionally useful.Smell This - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
AMD is splitting the difference between the GeForce RTX 3070 and the GeForce RTX 3060 Ti. If it performs at or near the -3070 level, Radeon folks will be very, very happy.
AMD says it will have have "significantly more" RX 6700 XT stock at launch than it had of its first RDNA 2 cards last year. It remains to be seen, as does the next rabbit Dr Su has up her sleeves.
She and her team has delivered, and I look forward to AMD living 'rent free' in their competitor's heads ... HA!
sonny73n - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Definitely there are backroom deals. I saw some of the RTX3060 were listed for sale 3 days before the official release date for $980/ea. Forgot the website name.Peskarik - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
Well, once we have blockhchain everywhere, we will be able to buy from manufacturer directly, without middle-man and associated costs, and with proofe of purchase and proof of ownership. Won't we? :-)jimbo2779 - Sunday, March 7, 2021 - link
That is not what is stopping manufacturers from dealing with the public at all. They sell 1000s at a time to a few different customers. That is wildly different from selling to 10s of thousands of customers and having to ship individual units.Gastec - Wednesday, March 10, 2021 - link
ROFL!shabby - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Hope there will be a review 🤞🤞🤞powerarmour - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
We'll probably get the Intel DG2 review...shabby - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
lolDolda2000 - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Frankly, I'm looking forward to the DG2 review more than this anyway. I'm pretty confident that the 6700XT review will contain pretty much zero surprises, whereas the DG2 review will far more likely contain information that not just about anyone could calculate in advance to a precision of ±10%.PixyMisa - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
On the one hand, that price seems high. On the other hand, many RTX 3060 cards are priced even higher and are still out of stock.sorten - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Yeah, I'm ok with them fleecing the miners. All modern video cards are effectively "pro" cards since they're being used to generate revenue, so price them accordingly.sonny73n - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
I hope all crypto currencies crash soon and hard but that will likely never happen since most of the crooks in the banking industry and big corporates vowed support for them. And the all talk but no bite government can't do a damn thing about scalpers. Welcome to the real capitalism, suckers!silverblue - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
I noticed PALIT were selling their dual OC 3060 for just shy of £1,500 on Amazon UK on launch day. They were unavailable the following day. One of the reviews suggested it went as high as £1,700.Operandi - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
7nm yields are supposed to be very good and this die is much smaller so hopefully that helps AMD push way more of these to market and get prices where the belong.WaltC - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Here it is March 3 and so far I've not been able to buy a 6800XT from any source, and I peruse them several times a day, every day since the announced availability last year. Now I'm being asked to believe these products will be available March 18th. I'll believe it when I see it.Manch - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Got lucky, my 6900XT arrives Friday!! $800 + shipping from OH to SD which aint much.TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
We are to believe that you nabbed a 6900xt for $200 under MSRP, right now, amid a globalshortageManch - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
Got very very very lucky. Friends with a system builder. He decided he wanted to get a different 6900XT to make a water cooled show case rig. I got the card he was going to use at a discount bc it's "used". Only ran long enough to make sure it was a working card.Samus - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
I was thinking the same thing if they are able to get 2.5GHz the yields must be ridiculously good at this point. Or they are heavily binning to make this card but then I wonder what the hell the stubborn dies are going into...NextGen_Gamer - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
@ Ryan Smith: If you go to AMD's product specification page for its graphics cards, you can see all of the following are confirmed, by AMD, for the Radeon 6700 XT: 64 ROPs, 160 TMUs, 2560 Stream Processors, 2321MHz Base / 2424MHz Game / 2581MHz (!) Boost clockspeeds, 192-bit memory interface, 16.00Gbps memory clockspeed, 384GB/sec of memory bandwidth and 96MB of Infinity Cache. The only thing I see missing at all is the transistor count.Ryan Smith - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Thanks!NextGen_Gamer - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
@ Ryan Smith: You're welcome! I started always going to that page after an AMD event a couple years back, I think during the initial Zen+ announcement. I had noticed that AMD tends to put the full or nearly full details of their CPUs and GPUs on it, even if the formal/"real" PR event and press releases skipped over the majority of the specs of the products.kpb321 - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
When is the 3060/3060ti competitors launching? I assume we'll be getting a cut down die harvested version of this chip so 3060ti competitor and then a new chip for the 3060 competitor?Agent Smith - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
I'd buy a 3060Ti if:a) it was available
b) Had some memory future proofing like the new 3060.
QNyTech1 - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
According to reviewers, the 12 GB memory is literally useless in most applications, where that 12 GB would start to matter, the 3060 does not have the processing power to operate.TheinsanegamerN - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
"BUT MUH NEXT GEN CONSOLES. 16GB! FUTURE! YOU CANT HAE LESS THEN 40GB FOR NEXT GEN!!!11!!!"Manch - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Right now no. If you keep your card for awhile though you eventually use it. This has been the case with older cards. Newer post.processing effects eat it up. I dont see this as being any diff. Consoles are the primary driver of games nowadays so as they share similar architecture, yeah, you may see a benefit. If you changed cards regularly, no worries.Manch - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Simliar architecture to to thebAMD cards I meant to say.Caparroz - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
"Simliar architecture to to thebAMD cards I meant to say."RDNA is new mARCH. I assume you're a big developer or just guessing. If you're a dev, can you share some tidbits about it?
Manch - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
Consoles like these cards are RDNA 2. Customized yes but still very similar. The storage is the main dif between the consoles themselves and PCs. That tech will come about in PCs soon enoigh. Like generations before, as we try to extract efficiencies out of consoles, the PC space will see improvements. Both Nvidia and AMD will benefit but AMD will bemefot from architecture specific enhancement same as last gen. If you want to see the effects of a frame buffer on games...check out WZ YT vids showing the diff. Can also play around with your own config file and change the vid memory ratio to see.Caparroz - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
I'd like to see some numbers for new games from an older card with a large buffer for the time it released to back up your claims. A 980ti with 6GB for example.TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Just like the 8GB R290 which never used its larger framebuffer.evernessince - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
12GB is too much, 6GB is too little. Was it really that hard to get 2GB more across the Nvidia lineup? Na, cards were designed to last a limited time.Caparroz - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
The frame buffer is a direct result of a arch design. You can't just design something and later just say "slap 10GB on it" because it's bigger than 8GB. There's a reason the 6700xt has 12GB and 3060 also has 12GB. Also, there's cost assesment for a certain product. The 6700xt will be 5-10% slower than the 3070. Or else it would cost more (not that ir matters right now). I could go on forever...TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Memory bus, not arch design. On a 192 bit bus you can do 1.5, 3, 6, or 12 GB with current memory chips. You cant do 10 GB without having some memory chips either running at half bit width (geforce 970) or doubling up memory only on certian channels (geforce 550ti, 660ti).lmcd - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
One of which was a lawsuit and the other two of which had major stability problems that almost led to a lawsuit (or did but it didn't go as far).Thanny - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Those would be reviewers who aren't thinking clearly. The question isn't whether the 3060 needs 12GB, the question is whether or not it needs more than 6GB. Those are the choices with its memory bus - 6GB or 12GB. With the 6700 XT, and likely later the 6700, coming with 12GB, nVidia can't afford to release a 6GB card.Jp7188 - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
I'm tired of ppl spewing this nonsense. Benchmarks almost by definition use unmodified games.. Many games today support modding and texture mods are the most common. Its no problem at all to eat any amount of vram with mods while greatly improving the look of games. I have a 1080ti 11GB, and often have to dial back texture mods lest the game turn in to a slide show.scineram - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
This is that.patel21 - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Wow, those all all ugly looking GPUs.Nvidia does know how make a GPU look sexy.
evilspoons - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
My GTX 1080 isn't "sexy" but the white LEDs on it are annoying in the corner of your eye. I solve that problem by having a case without a window. Quieter that way anyway.Agent Smith - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
I agree to differ.Think it looks rather good and I like the traditional blower style unlike Nvidia's opposing blower format
Caparroz - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
You can always buy a Rembrandt, a Monet or a Picasso. It'll look way better than any hardware and they cost almost the same right now.Questor - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Is there a point to this launch? The rest of their newest generation GPUs and CPUs are virtually unavailable unless one wants to spend stupid amounts of money on Ebay. I am not grasping the thinking here.AMD says, "Since nothing we make is available, let's split our product yet again to make another product that won't be available. But we priced it lower. Yeah! That will fix the problem."
RapterNSX - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
They are not splitting their product... its a new line that uses a chip that is essentially about half the size of their higher end products. That means more dies available per wafer that can potentially go out to people. This is in reality a much needed product that will put out more overall product than their higher end offerings.Will it be enough, probably not but its a step in the right direction. Especially when cut down versions of this chip will end up as lower down the stack options as well.
Yojimbo - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
AMD doubling the number of GPUs they put out will not make a significant contribution towards meeting demand. They've had almost nothing so far. Miners don't seem to have them and gamers don't seem to have them. Besides, there's also more demand for the market segment that the 6700 XT is meant to service than there is for the 6800 market segment.TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
They have limited 7nm manufacturing capacity. This has been the limiting factor on ryzen 3000, 5000, rx 6000, xbox series x, and ps5 availability.Introducing another GPU SKU is, in fact, splitting their currently very limited manufacturing supply among yet another product.
Tams80 - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
AMD have spent money developing, producing, and marketing it. And they need to sell it before it becomes less relevant.There's also a market to sell them all, so they'd be stupid not too. These companies are afterall companies. Their duty is to their shareholders. Gamers have no right to hardware and no company has to sell or even produce it.
yeeeeman - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Leaving aside the current price situation, this card is a tad dzpenyeeeeman - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Expensive and it consumes quite a lot of power given that it is a highly cut down die.evilspoons - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
If the figures are accurate, losing about 1/3 of the die while gaining 25% in clock speed ought to make for about the same power consumption. If you go by FP32 throughput, it's using almost exactly the "right" amount of power compared to the 6800.This one should be interesting in benchmarks.
Yojimbo - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
It's cut down but it's also clocked very high, hence the power consumption. The fact that AMD increased the game clock 38% over the 5700 XT while the TDP inches up just slightly is impressive and shows you the advantages of the infinity cache architecture. A comparison of the Navi10 and Navi22 die sizes would be interesting.Yojimbo - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
On techpowerup.com I found claims that Navi 22 is 335 mm^2 while Navi 10 is 251 mm^2. So that's a 33% increase in die size. And there's the disadvantage of the infinity cache architecture. Of course it's not an apples to apples comparison. They've added ray tracing transistors and their encoding/decoding blocks probably grew somewhat as well.PixyMisa - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
96MB of Infinity Cache is around 96mm^2 on TSMC 7nm. Not exactly, but rule of thumb for that node is 1mm^2 per MB of SRAM. So that accounts for the die size increase.Gothmoth - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
coming at 479$..... who are you trying too fool here?Oxford Guy - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
The disclaimers are at the end of articles in a chart. Doesn’t seem to be enough to highlight the reality.People were talking about the latest Nvidia card selling out at $500-600 at places like MicroCenter while the headline said $370 or something.
Not exactly comparable.
Oxford Guy - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Pardon me. $330.bernstein - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
well it's a bit more than half a rx6900xt (half except memory(&-bandwidth) of which it has three fourths, plus higher clocks) at a bit less than a half the price. and much worse perf per watt (rx6900xt is 69gflops/watt, rx670xt is 54gflops/watt). so the rx6800xt at msrp remains the best deal by far.JimmyZeng - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
ANYTHING at MSRP will be the best deal.Oxford Guy - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Only true in a paradigm where there is inadequate competition.JimmyZeng - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
We have only one reality, and in this reality, it is true.Oxford Guy - Tuesday, April 6, 2021 - link
Apples and oranges fallacy.Machinus - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Paper launch part 2!guachi - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
A meaningless release from AMD as supply will likely be terrible.velanapontinha - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Kudos to that 192 bit bus. Less attractive to miners, at least, while pretty decent for gaming.JimmyZeng - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Less attractive to miners Yes, not attractive to miners No.JimmyZeng - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
For example 3060 with lower memory bandwidth and "mining limiter", of course it's less attractive to miners, but AFAICT it's still sold at around 2*MSRP by scalpers here in China.sonicmerlin - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
2 years later and the $/TFLOPS is virtually unchanged from the 5700 XT. Ripoff.XacTactX - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
I'm not sure if $/TFLOPS is a good way to compare different generations of GPUs but I agree with your general concern, my estimate is that the new 6700 XT will be 20-30% faster than the old 5700 XT, but the price of the GPU also increased by 20%, so the value for money is going to be roughly the same. AMD and nVidia both know that there is a GPU shortage and people will buy GPUs even if the value for money ratio does not improve, the only way this situation will improve is when supply/demand even out and competition increases between the two companies.sonicmerlin - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
$/TFLOPS is a pretty good way to compare performance. I'm sure the GPU makers watch that ratio for each release wave. It's incredibly lame that at MSRP value for dollar hasn't changed one bit in 2 years, and then to top it off you can't even buy a GPU for MSRP. Everything is marked up to 2016 $/TFLOPS levels.Spunjji - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
It's on the same manufacturing process and the die size went up, what else would you expect? It sucks, but that's the place we're at right now in this market.sonicmerlin - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
That has never affected prices before. They're just overcharging now because demand overwhelmingly outstrips supply.AlB80 - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Launch Date 03/18/2021Is the announcement date and the launch date the same?
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
No. The card is being announced today, but it won't launch (and thus be available for sale) until the 18th.Oxford Guy - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Is it really a good idea to put MSRPs in headlines and ‘headline graphics’?The most recent Nvidia card announcement, for instance, had people commenting about it selling out at up to $600+ at MicroCenter, despite your headline saying $370 or something.
Putting a tiny ‘theoretical MSRP’ disclaimer at the end of articles doesn’t really seem to be adequate to address the severity of the situation.
Oxford Guy - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Pardon me. $330, not $370.zodiacfml - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
this probably hashes ETH as good as a 5700 xt. supply could be 3-4 times than the higher end cards but demand certainly more than 8 times.JimmyZeng - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
I believe it will be lower, more like 3/4 of 6800 performance, 63 * 3/4 = 48, lower than 54 of 5700(xt).Oxford Guy - Wednesday, March 3, 2021 - link
Need a 3rd GPU company (and not nonsense like Intel) stat.JimmyZeng - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
We also need a 3rd Fab other than TSMC and Samsung.TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Intel could fab its own if they bothered to finish 10nm or just move to another node design. 10nm has been a total disaster, much like TSMC 20nm was.Oxford Guy - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Intel is useless in the GPU space. Waiting around for it to get its act together has proven to be a failure. It would rather push junk like PLC.What happened to competition? You know, when Google was invented there were a lot of search engines already. Some, like Metacrawler, even let people search all of them at once.
So, even though Google entered a rather mature area of the market that had satisfactory products we all know how consumers responded to a search that was better.
But, ask people to get off their duffs to bring some competition to the GPU space or foundries and, suddenly, we all have to be held hostage to Nvidia’s quest to keep breaking its revenue records while not coming close to meeting demand.
People need to stop pretending the USSR not only still exists but won the economics game.
lmcd - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
How do you always find the most demented angle? The barrier to entry on CPU design was too high for even Samsung, and GPU design seems to be even higher in difficulty. Software is low barrier to entry by comparison unless it's artificial, say, US healthcare software.Dunno how the USSR plays in, except that its land mass might not be as large as your ego?
Oxford Guy - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
The claim that it’s impossible to a competitive GPU for a third company is nonsense and the current state of the ‘competition’ makes it so ludicrous a claim that it’s no surprise that the claimant is tossing around ad homs.Oxford Guy - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
Gaming is a huge industry that keeps expanding. GPUs are increasing in importance, not lessening.The claim that the market can’t sustain more than the 1 1/2 companies we have barely competing is simply false.
Tams80 - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Fabs are the problem (well cryptocurrencies too), not the nunnery of pianos designing GPUs.Oxford Guy - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
False.AMD has a very large role in the current direness of the situation by choosing to not compete aggressively above the midrange for many many years.
AMD has also done nothing to reduce the attractiveness of its cards to miners, while Nvidia has done next to nothing.
Keep watching as Nvidia breaks its profitability records again and again and AMD allocates resources to the console scam. Don’t complain when, if you’re even allowed to find a product to buy that it’s seriously overpriced.
Bozilla99 - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
From the die shot it looks like it actually has 96 ROPs rather than 64. The clusters in the center of Big Navi are the ROPS, there are 16 of them, I presume there are 8 ROPs in each cluster. The Navi 22 die shot has them on the top right edge and there are 12 of them. From memory bandwidth / cache point of view 96 is perfect match to 96MB and 192 bits. This will give Navi 22 a very healthy boost in terms of fill rate and AA/z-buffer/blending performance.JimmyZeng - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
64 according to:https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeo...
Yes there looks to be 12 clusters, but, some might be disabled.
And official die shots are not guaranteed to be final, nvidia A100 die shots has 6 HBM stacks, which is highly unlikely given their 40/80GB total memory.
Bozilla99 - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Interesting. The die shot surely fooled a lot of people. Tomshardware review also concluded it might has 96 ROP. Let just hope maybe the have some in reserve for a stronger model.svan1971 - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Awesome yet another card I won't be able to getimaheadcase - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
You know its bad when people are buying whole PC for the price of a graphics card..just to use the graphics card inside the prebuilt PC itself. lolAmdandnvidiabothsuck - Thursday, March 4, 2021 - link
Can't even buy any cards right now. But let's launch a new version that no one can buy? Amd and nvidia can't keep any stock on the shelves but both launching new cards? Until they quit selling all the cards in backroom deals. No one is getting anything. Unless you pay x2-x3 for a card through a p.o.s scalper. And with no solution to this problem they launch new cards? It's amd and nvidia that are creating this problem. Putting a $479 price tag on a new card that we can't buy is a slap in the face.damianrobertjones - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
Surely... at one point the Miners won't need any further cards as they're at the max?? Then why aren't these cards readily available? How many did each OEM make? Questions and questions.Hrel - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
This graphics card is priced like an entire PC...It's amazing how suddenly this is happening, in the course of a few months I have gone from planning my next build to figuring out how to live without ever building another PC for the rest of my life. A $500 graphics card and it can't even drive 8K?!?!?!!!!!! FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!!!!
If I spend $1500 on an entire PC build I expect it to do absolutely everything imaginable and function as my primary PC for at least 6 years. Pricing on everything is just broken but the GPU is single handedly killing the PC industry right now.
This is even without all the weirdness going on related to crypto and mining. All a bunch of BS. Let's spend real money to make fake money that can't actually buy anything, brilliant!
I wish Bill Gates would just kill all this crypto BS and let GPU prices fall to where they need to be.
This is a $300 graphics card, FYI. If you pay 1 dollar more than that for this GPU YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!
Oxford Guy - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
There is nothing sudden about it.The only difference is that the utterly astoundingly terribleness of the current situation is just barely getting people to think about prying the death grip Nvidia and AMD have on us off, in favor of a little actual competition.
Count how many years people waited for AMD to compete adequately at the high end. Think of all of that pent-up demand. Even Nvidia has its hand in promoting the console scam, although not as aggressively as AMD.
Then, let’s look at how many years Intel has had to make a good GPU and to get beyond 14nm.
How many years have people waited for AMD and Nvidia to sell cards to them at reasonable prices rather than to mining (and console peddlers).
If the current situation can’t convince people to break the chains and get a third GPU maker back into the gaming market nothing apparently will.
Plato’s cave 2021 edition.
Oxford Guy - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
Someone here responded to me with the claim that it’s much easier to create the Google empire from scratch than to create a competitive GPU.facepalm
scineram - Sunday, March 7, 2021 - link
Cope.Revv233 - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
they will be on the 7900xt before you can buy these under a grand.AMD/Nvidia may as well just start charging $1,500 per card retail If I were them I would be sick of scalpers making quadruple what I make on them.
Oxford Guy - Friday, March 5, 2021 - link
Scalpers exist mainly because of inadequate competition. Raising artificially high prices higher is hardly a sane solution to the problem.Hrel - Sunday, March 21, 2021 - link
So I'm wondering what kind of GPU i can even get for $160 shipped, including taxes. I don't give a flying fuck about 4k or 8k, 1080p is where the human eye reaches its limitation anyway. So all this $400 GPU shit has gotta go. Is there even anything at all that's worth buying for $160 after taxes and shipping? I don't think there is... :/ WTF are you guys doing in CompSci?!Hrel - Sunday, March 21, 2021 - link
$500 is the price of an entire console, WTF even is going on?! This madness needs to end!What ever happened to the 8800GT, a card that could max out EVERYTHING, that sold for $140 shortly after launch!
The apocalypse sucks!
Hrel - Monday, April 5, 2021 - link
$200 too expensive, so whatever.