You somehow completely omitted the paragraph where Dr. Su said, "We are going to release Zen 3 Threadripper chips next week." Probably just an editing error.
I wish they'd replace the Zen 1 quad-cores with a smaller Zen 3 die, so you can actually buy the dang things.
I understood Renoir only being "big" for binning purposes at lower volume, with a 2017 CPU filling in. I do not understand that for 2021+. It's one step removed from Intel keeping a CPU from 2015.
Any news of GlobalFoundries' "10nm" that was lower voltage and meant take the place of the abandoned 7nm? It sounds like TSMC is going to be swamped for years.
They introduced Dalì/Pollock last year. They are 2 core Apus based on GF 14nm. That should cover the pricewise bottom segment of the market. I don't expect them to release any small-die Zen 3 anytime soon.
GF abandoned 10nm a couple years ago, the agreement for AMD to use TMSC resulted in GF's decision to freeze their fab's at 12nm for the time being. GF reprioritized to higher volume lower cost process tech to avoid investing the exponential cost increases for each fab step.
IIRC they were projecting that 5nm was going to cost $20Billion to build a fab. At that price the number of 5nm fab's isn't going to be more than probably 2 worldwide until the process ages out and the equipment can be had for significantly less money.
TSMC & GlobFo had an agreement in place with regards to 7nm. TSMC becomes the sole provider while GlobFo shares in the profits. Not sure about 10nm for GlobGo though, but they have been working on a revised 12LP+ that is suppose to be very similar to what you would expect from a regular 7nm node by TSMC.
AMD going back to Global Foundries for its GPUs, does concern me though. If they can make that work by all means, so long there GPUs don't lose any performance & quality over TSMC's 7nm+
No confirmation one way or the other on whether or not Zen3 is the swansong for AM4? I didn't see any mention of it in the writeup, but I could have missed it.
Everything from past articles seem to indicate that Zen4 will come with AM5, the next socket for AMD Ryzen processors. We'll probably also get DDR5 along with it. PCIe 5.0 would also be nice, but it may not make it to the new platform yet.
AMD has always said in the past Ryzen 5000 series was the last on AM4, they've been saying it for years. The extensive modifications they had to make to support PCIe4 are evidence of the age of the platform.
I'd be surprised if they don't pull a new socket going forward. You can't keep shoehorning into the existing socket and expect comparability, it would be better to design a new socket with breathing room for the future. AM4 has been around a LONG time.
Leaked correct? Could have been selectively leaked to throw off Intel. AMD has been doing that more and more recently. Who knows though, it would make sense to release Zen3+ on the same socket. That is unless AMD is pulling skipping the + again and going straight to Zen4 like they did with 3.
They have a slide from their earnings report with vague positioning for zen 4 by 2022. Actual release date will probably depend a lot on 5nm capacity and yields.
"The Xilinx acquisition is still a critical business outlay to be considerate of" ..I don't think being considerate of the acquisition makes sense. It makes more sense to give the acquisition "considerate thought".
Not really buying that their market share isn't capped at 22% or whatever percent you can calculate. I can't get their latest tech, its never in stock at listed price. Intel has a new CPU coming this quarter, if AMD doesn't fix their supply problem before then, and if Intel doesn't have the same supply problem, I'm going to go Intel when that product ships. AMD's big chance to increase its market share has an expiration date, and they don't seem willing to publicly acknowledge this.
Market share is to both consumers and OEMs, also regional. What might not be in stock for you might be going to OEMs, or to other regions. They're selling everything they're making at any rate.
Yes, but unfortunately for Intel, they don't have enough capacity either on the denser nodes: 10nm and they TBD 7nm. They can't keep selling 14nm parts and "lead" the market for much longer.
Just because they are "always sold out" doesn't mean they aren't selling boat loads of them. It just means there is more demand than supply. Supply could be double what it was when Ryzen 3k launched and they could still sell out instantly.
Nope, AMD cannot even begin to ramp up desktop Zen3 fully, and RDNA2 because those console contracts are still some way off from being met. Nvidia may well get there first, depending on their desire to get off that 'direct-to-miner' train, and, ramp up those early-forced Ti/Super variants.
Microcenter stock levels have been creeping up of late. Been watching all their stores multiple times a day for stock levels. First month after release I rarely saw any store with stock and when I did it was 1 or 2 units of the 5950x. Last week nearly every location had at least 1 and several had decent quantities. Saw 24 in Houston, 18 at another site and 9 at Westmont being the highest counts. Talked to the local store and they said the stock is coming in more consistently and in larger numbers. Makes me believe they have increased orders from TSMC and more are filtering their way to retail.
It depends on the market - looking at large online US retailers I see none a available, however checking Scan (UK), Alternate and Mindfactory (Germany) plenty are, and mostly no longer considerable over msrp. Also looking at Mindfactory‘s sales charts (they are public), you can see they shifted a good amount of Ryzen 5000 CPU.
What's the issue with posting transcripts of on-the-record discussions?!? Perhaps summaries are quicker to read, but in terms of accuracy you can't beat re-printing the answers verbatim.
ARM vs x86, her replies show what those stupid ARM fangirls here want to hear. Listen to that and observe the lines too. And since Cezzane is out, let's do a M1 vs that and see how AMD obliterates that pos overhyped M1 esp those ridiculos charts here on AT which do not show SMT of the Ryzen at all, because of giving the user a stupid biased illusion of M1's faux superiority.
The choice, she emphasizes choice. That's the ultimate part of PC, the Personal aspect. With x86 system anyone can choose what they want and need, applies for enterprise too. That doesn't exist with ARM nor Apple BS, it's all heavily gated ecosystem with walled garden utopian complex. Apple killed 32bit on Mac OS, all the damn games which supported on the platform got yeeted out because of their uber bs ego complex. Now they abandon x86 code, more products and software gets left behind all for that thin and light garbage Adobe and other first party software with heavily locked down hardware.
As for Apple venturing into the DC market, nope that is not happening. Apple is all about ecosystem and locking down users, they cannot do that bullshit with Enterprise market, where there are tons of things in play. So Apple ARM dream by the hardcore Apple fans ain't happening today nor tomorrow. The Mac OS line was shifted to ARM only because Apple spends millions on CapEx for TSMC and A Series. That business division of Apple is just 10% of their entire stack of revenue, with Services breaking more % and creeping up to iPhone level which is king of Apple's pie (more than 50%).
Genoa will come as planned and with consistent showcase of AMD's R&D with ROI it's written how x86 is still the way to go, more choice to consumer more DIY more power in people vs the gated BS of ARM.
A small piece of info for those ARM evangelists on efficiency crap. AMD processors still use WSA and GloFo tech for the I/O die (14 and 12nm for DC and Client respectively), so if they even try to make both of 7N. Imagine the efficiency of the AMD processors both the U series BGA crap and the X series AM4 AND the EPYC with Threadripper as well.
If you need to resort to pathetic, childish, misogynist posturing just to feel superior to your so-called "fangirl" opponents then you're not really saying anything good about yourself.
I found her response on ARM to be worryingly dismissive. Perhaps they have plans they don't yet want to talk about, but if that's actually the view being taken then it's not a great sign for the future of AMD, as ARM are now officially a credible threat in the Hyperscaler arena, and that will only become more obvious and more widespread over the next 5 years.
Better performance at higher power levels. Certainly not better efficiency, although granted, on a worse node. That said, if part of Apple's strategy is being on a better node before anyone else by building out small dies that yield well, then that's to their credit.
The M1 venture looks perfectly reasonable compared with Ryzen 5000 - it's competitive. I never understand why people feel the need to say thing that aren't objectively true out of some sort of loyalty.
If ARM were to prevail over x86, I'm pretty sure AMD could produce a CPU implementing that ISA and give the competitors a run for their money. But, as Lisa often says, it's all about bets and striking in at the right time. Developing a CPU from scratch takes a couple of years. So, their starting too late could mean trouble. Hopefully, the K12 designs were solid. Or perhaps, they could use much of Zen's design philosophy, and mainly rework the front end.
I'm not finding myself particularly encouraged by the responses here. For a start, unless they're confident that they can out-manufacture Intel by contracting through TSMC, there's a ceiling on how big a slice of the market they can carve out.
Similarly, I don't buy the idea that ARM is simply a curiosity to sit alongside the existing market. No doubt it will be enabling some new use-cases, but it's clear that it's already at worst a second-tier option in the Enterprise server market. At the moment it seems more likely that ARM will be taking market share from Intel, but eventually they will be in contention with AMD. Her responses seemed unfussed, so either she knows something we don't about AMD's plans or there's a touch of bravado involved here.
I agree that Lisa's answers were a bit disappointing today. Usually, I relish reading her thoughts. Respecting ARM, I suppose she can't say much: she's got to be diplomatic and put AMD and x86 in the best light.
Combining her answers today and Papermaster's from last time, I reckon AMD didn't think of ARM as too big of a threat, much like Intel's attitude towards AMD in the pre-Ryzen era. Increasingly, this view will be eroded as the months go by, and I'm sure the M1 raised not a few eyebrows at AMD.
Having said that, I think x86 has shown it can actually stand against ARM when it comes to power, and no doubt, the micro-op cache is largely to thank for that. But mass movements often decide a matter, sadly, and right now there's this catchy "newness" about ARM sweeping through computing; something I say with much regret, being a supporter of x86.
I'd be inclined to agree with what you've written here. x86 isn't getting knocked out immediately, by any means, but the ARM threat is now credible on multiple fronts.
Why ARM? The primary reasons for this transition are lower costs, a reduction in power requirements and a common platform enabling applications to run on smartphones, tablets and PCs. In turn, this universal platform will enable faster adoption of software and hardware innovations and lead to higher productivity for the end-users.
Basically, Arm-processors have higher performance, lower costs, lower energy requirements and better functionality.
I support x86, and AMD can't do this on there own. Intel needs to get off there Aris and start helping AMD grow the x86 market. Both AMD & Intel need to concentrate on competing against ARM and not against each other. When AMD & Intel battle with each other, that's where ARM gains the most.
Thanks for the comment. I think it's going to be quite interesting watching how things play out in the next five or ten years, especially now that Microsoft has implemented x64 emulation in Windows ARM.
Dr Sue must be clearly aware of the geopolitical situation involving Taiwan in the form of a rebel communist province dead serious about invading the Republic of China. So why does she put all her eggs in a single TSMC basket?
I interpret the statements on supply and demand that demand is higher than predicted, and supply is as planned (except that it's unclear how the substrate shortage affects their ability to supply). The comment on priority of OEMs and end-users does not really say so, but the market situation indicates that OEMs have higher priority. That being said, you can buy Ryzen 5x00 in Austria, but prices are high.
What she said is that since OEMs were releasing their laptop in February, they make sure Ryzen 5000 mobile chips was available to them at this specific timing... right after the console crunch of the holidays. It means that the priority for January and February is Ryzen mobile, as Consoles was the priority for November and December. Usual business is going to take over in March with CPU and GPU.
"M1 is a clear building block for the company to move forward into desktops, workstations, and potentially the enterprise market. This has the potential to affect the relationship between Apple and AMD, especially if Apple decides to also branch out its graphics integration for its own solutions."
It never surprises me how little some people understand Apple...;) Sorry, but Apple never, ever looks for competition--ever. The whole thrust of the company under Jobs and since is to avoid competition where it is at all possible by creating new markets if possible where no competition yet exists. Apple is not going to compete with AMD and Intel--not going to happen. Look for M1 to share the same fate as OS X--Apple will never open OS X up to compete with Windows/Linux. And last here, ARM has always been about specific-use cases. ARM is an *embedded, low-power* CPU design and has been that way from the beginning. M1 will be for Apple products only, whatever those may turn out to be. The quote above sounds almost as bad as Jobs telling the world that because he was selling cell phones, now, the world had entered a "post-pc" era. Never happened...;) Of course it never happened. The RDF is strong at Apple.
You seem to have interpreted that comment in a very strange way. The fact is that Apple will be pushing products with its own CPUs in all of those sectors, so it *will be* competing with AMD and Intel - in Intel's case, they are going to lose the entire OS X market, and AMD stand to lose it from a graphics perspective.
Apple don't need to sell M1 to anyone else to be competing with AMD and Intel. Apple's products ultimately compete with products that contain Intel and AMD's processors. Simple.
Lisa SU: "We are committed to keeping GPU pricing as close to our suggested retail pricing as much as possible, because it’s the only way to be fair to the users. Normally when we have GPU launches, our own branded cards are available initially but then fade away for our partners to pick up. This time around we’re not phasing out our RX 6000 series, enabling us to sell direct to customers as low as possible."
Very good news! By this method Apple will control the scalpers and the scalping companies trying to use tariffs as a reason to greatly increase MSRPs on RX-6000 GPUs. By continuing to sell reference designs through the AMD store at normal MSRPs AMD can do much to thwart the greedy resellers. It's disheartening to hear her say that it will be "six months" or so before the shortages are fully alleviated, however. But it's no argument for FAB ownership--I mean, look at how little Intel is achieving with its massive FABs today! Well if this means I get six more months out of my 18-month-old 50th Ann Ed 5700XT, then so be it. It's been a sweet card.
It's a risky game to deny a segment (e.g. PC) access to the latest product releases for so long. Undoubtedly, an increasingly significant number of customers will end up purchasing whichever company gets there first in finally releasing in number and at 'reasonable/affordable' pricing. AMD are clearly still some way off honouring the volumes associated with both console contracts - and are thus prevented from ramping desktop Zen3 and RDNA2..."tightness" indeed! Nvidia, meanwhile, are still reeling from that 'unexpected' competition and are busy moving as much of that initial stock direct to mining as they can, while converting to Ti and Super variants. For both companies to be equally held back is bizarre indeed. And no, scalping does NOT even begin to explain the blatantly dramatic absence of products in the expected markets.
I wish she was pushed more about consumer confusing naming decisions (Ryzen 5000 as both Zen 3 and 2) and about putting years old GPU design into new APUs.
We are committed to keeping GPU pricing as close to our suggested retail pricing as much as possible, because it’s the only way to be fair to the users?
Umm if you are its not working at all. All GPU & CPU pricing is way OVERPRICED!!! $1000 for a Ryzen 7 5800X & $1000 for a RX 6800XT? That ain't keeping pricing as close to your suggested retail pricing. In my opinion, people simply need to STOP Buying Overpriced Hardware, stop feeding the massive Price Hikes or this Sh it will never stop. Supply/Demand be dammed,
I'm kind of interested on where AMD stands on HSA. Since the launch of Ryzen, I haven't heard a word from AMD about Ryzen APU's supporting HSA or if AMD even supports its development anymore. They use to boast about HSA allowing for increased performance and better battery life, both of which seem to be very important for Ryzen APU's going forward.
Also, given how AMD stated multiple times how HSA could be used to develop platform agnostic programs to work between ARM and x86. It would be interesting to hear where AMD stands on developing the HSA software platform and its adoption these last few years (only platform I can find that supports it is the PS4's custom OS & API).
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boredsysadmin - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Two minor corrections:AMD launched a lot of productS in Q4 2020 (Not Q4 2021),
Ian Cutress - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Thanks for the heads up. Fixed. Please let me know if you see more - I've been writing since the Q&A finished.bridgman - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
One more minor one - "expiration of US tariffs" should probably read "expiration of exemptions on US tariffs".CrystalCowboy - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
"saying laser focused" => "staying laser-focused"CrystalCowboy - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
You somehow completely omitted the paragraph where Dr. Su said, "We are going to release Zen 3 Threadripper chips next week." Probably just an editing error.Flunk - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
I don't know about that, I ordered a Ryzen 9 5950x in November of last year and I expect it might very well take until Q4 2020 for it to arrive.Slash3 - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
I'm going out on a limb and guessing you ordered from B&H Photo.mrvco - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
They're still sending me emails informing me know that they are still waiting for the 3300x to arrive... LOLbrantron - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
I wish they'd replace the Zen 1 quad-cores with a smaller Zen 3 die, so you can actually buy the dang things.I understood Renoir only being "big" for binning purposes at lower volume, with a 2017 CPU filling in. I do not understand that for 2021+. It's one step removed from Intel keeping a CPU from 2015.
Any news of GlobalFoundries' "10nm" that was lower voltage and meant take the place of the abandoned 7nm? It sounds like TSMC is going to be swamped for years.
spaceship9876 - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
I'm not sure if globalfoundaries was working on 10nm, they were working on 12FDX which has been delayed, they did announce 12LP+ last year.flashmozzg - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Aren't newest Ryzen IO dies already on GF 12LP?flashmozzg - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Aren't newest Ryzen IO dies already on GF 12LP?Flunk - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
They can't even keep their highest-end CPUs in stock, it'll be a while before they put out new lower-margin parts.Rudde - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
They introduced Dalì/Pollock last year. They are 2 core Apus based on GF 14nm. That should cover the pricewise bottom segment of the market. I don't expect them to release any small-die Zen 3 anytime soon.rahvin - Wednesday, January 20, 2021 - link
GF abandoned 10nm a couple years ago, the agreement for AMD to use TMSC resulted in GF's decision to freeze their fab's at 12nm for the time being. GF reprioritized to higher volume lower cost process tech to avoid investing the exponential cost increases for each fab step.IIRC they were projecting that 5nm was going to cost $20Billion to build a fab. At that price the number of 5nm fab's isn't going to be more than probably 2 worldwide until the process ages out and the equipment can be had for significantly less money.
nt300 - Wednesday, January 20, 2021 - link
TSMC & GlobFo had an agreement in place with regards to 7nm. TSMC becomes the sole provider while GlobFo shares in the profits. Not sure about 10nm for GlobGo though, but they have been working on a revised 12LP+ that is suppose to be very similar to what you would expect from a regular 7nm node by TSMC.AMD going back to Global Foundries for its GPUs, does concern me though. If they can make that work by all means, so long there GPUs don't lose any performance & quality over TSMC's 7nm+
Kidnova - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
No confirmation one way or the other on whether or not Zen3 is the swansong for AM4? I didn't see any mention of it in the writeup, but I could have missed it.romrunning - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Everything from past articles seem to indicate that Zen4 will come with AM5, the next socket for AMD Ryzen processors. We'll probably also get DDR5 along with it. PCIe 5.0 would also be nice, but it may not make it to the new platform yet.rahvin - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
AMD has always said in the past Ryzen 5000 series was the last on AM4, they've been saying it for years. The extensive modifications they had to make to support PCIe4 are evidence of the age of the platform.I'd be surprised if they don't pull a new socket going forward. You can't keep shoehorning into the existing socket and expect comparability, it would be better to design a new socket with breathing room for the future. AM4 has been around a LONG time.
Stuka87 - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
According to AMD's internal roadmap, AM5 is currently scheduled for 2022.evernessince - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Leaked correct? Could have been selectively leaked to throw off Intel. AMD has been doing that more and more recently. Who knows though, it would make sense to release Zen3+ on the same socket. That is unless AMD is pulling skipping the + again and going straight to Zen4 like they did with 3.whatthe123 - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
They have a slide from their earnings report with vague positioning for zen 4 by 2022. Actual release date will probably depend a lot on 5nm capacity and yields.oldperson - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
"The Xilinx acquisition is still a critical business outlay to be considerate of" ..I don't think being considerate of the acquisition makes sense. It makes more sense to give the acquisition "considerate thought".EdgeOfDetroit - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Not really buying that their market share isn't capped at 22% or whatever percent you can calculate. I can't get their latest tech, its never in stock at listed price. Intel has a new CPU coming this quarter, if AMD doesn't fix their supply problem before then, and if Intel doesn't have the same supply problem, I'm going to go Intel when that product ships. AMD's big chance to increase its market share has an expiration date, and they don't seem willing to publicly acknowledge this.Ian Cutress - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Market share is to both consumers and OEMs, also regional. What might not be in stock for you might be going to OEMs, or to other regions. They're selling everything they're making at any rate.vladx - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
His point still stands, AMD's market share will always have a hardcap because of its fabless status compared to Intel.Freeb!rd - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Yes, but unfortunately for Intel, they don't have enough capacity either on the denser nodes: 10nm and they TBD 7nm. They can't keep selling 14nm parts and "lead" the market for much longer.mrvco - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
A new 14nm heating element from Intel certainly isn't going to cause Ryzen 3 CPUs to start piling up on store shelves unsold.vladx - Friday, January 15, 2021 - link
As you said Intel is selling every chip they make and their 10nm process will improve which means better chip output.Qasar - Sunday, January 17, 2021 - link
the funny thing is, so is AMD. point being?yea IF intel can get 10nm working where they need it to be, seems, its still not there yet.
Stuka87 - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Just because they are "always sold out" doesn't mean they aren't selling boat loads of them. It just means there is more demand than supply. Supply could be double what it was when Ryzen 3k launched and they could still sell out instantly.Zak90 - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
Nope, AMD cannot even begin to ramp up desktop Zen3 fully, and RDNA2 because those console contracts are still some way off from being met. Nvidia may well get there first, depending on their desire to get off that 'direct-to-miner' train, and, ramp up those early-forced Ti/Super variants.Holliday75 - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Microcenter stock levels have been creeping up of late. Been watching all their stores multiple times a day for stock levels. First month after release I rarely saw any store with stock and when I did it was 1 or 2 units of the 5950x. Last week nearly every location had at least 1 and several had decent quantities. Saw 24 in Houston, 18 at another site and 9 at Westmont being the highest counts. Talked to the local store and they said the stock is coming in more consistently and in larger numbers. Makes me believe they have increased orders from TSMC and more are filtering their way to retail.My wait continues. #fscalpers
Dug - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
I agree with this. The question is how well Intel will do with the new chip. Hopefully it's more than previous iterations.mbucdn - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
All of this is Irrelevant, I still can’t buy a a Ryzen product from anybody. Do I want to Ryzen 5000 series CPU? You bet. None available.Questor - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
^ Thiseva02langley - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Another troll...eva02langley - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Doesn't mean because you can't buy one that NONE are sold...Irata - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
It depends on the market - looking at large online US retailers I see none a available, however checking Scan (UK), Alternate and Mindfactory (Germany) plenty are, and mostly no longer considerable over msrp.Also looking at Mindfactory‘s sales charts (they are public), you can see they shifted a good amount of Ryzen 5000 CPU.
OreoCookie - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
What's the issue with posting transcripts of on-the-record discussions?!? Perhaps summaries are quicker to read, but in terms of accuracy you can't beat re-printing the answers verbatim.Silver5urfer - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
ARM vs x86, her replies show what those stupid ARM fangirls here want to hear. Listen to that and observe the lines too. And since Cezzane is out, let's do a M1 vs that and see how AMD obliterates that pos overhyped M1 esp those ridiculos charts here on AT which do not show SMT of the Ryzen at all, because of giving the user a stupid biased illusion of M1's faux superiority.The choice, she emphasizes choice. That's the ultimate part of PC, the Personal aspect. With x86 system anyone can choose what they want and need, applies for enterprise too. That doesn't exist with ARM nor Apple BS, it's all heavily gated ecosystem with walled garden utopian complex. Apple killed 32bit on Mac OS, all the damn games which supported on the platform got yeeted out because of their uber bs ego complex. Now they abandon x86 code, more products and software gets left behind all for that thin and light garbage Adobe and other first party software with heavily locked down hardware.
As for Apple venturing into the DC market, nope that is not happening. Apple is all about ecosystem and locking down users, they cannot do that bullshit with Enterprise market, where there are tons of things in play. So Apple ARM dream by the hardcore Apple fans ain't happening today nor tomorrow. The Mac OS line was shifted to ARM only because Apple spends millions on CapEx for TSMC and A Series. That business division of Apple is just 10% of their entire stack of revenue, with Services breaking more % and creeping up to iPhone level which is king of Apple's pie (more than 50%).
Genoa will come as planned and with consistent showcase of AMD's R&D with ROI it's written how x86 is still the way to go, more choice to consumer more DIY more power in people vs the gated BS of ARM.
Silver5urfer - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
A small piece of info for those ARM evangelists on efficiency crap. AMD processors still use WSA and GloFo tech for the I/O die (14 and 12nm for DC and Client respectively), so if they even try to make both of 7N. Imagine the efficiency of the AMD processors both the U series BGA crap and the X series AM4 AND the EPYC with Threadripper as well.lmcd - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
They don't use either of those on mobile so please shut up.Spunjji - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
If you need to resort to pathetic, childish, misogynist posturing just to feel superior to your so-called "fangirl" opponents then you're not really saying anything good about yourself.I found her response on ARM to be worryingly dismissive. Perhaps they have plans they don't yet want to talk about, but if that's actually the view being taken then it's not a great sign for the future of AMD, as ARM are now officially a credible threat in the Hyperscaler arena, and that will only become more obvious and more widespread over the next 5 years.
eva02langley - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
AMD is having better performances and better efficiency, on a worst node and on x86...Ryzen 5000 mobile are making the M1 venture look stupid.
Spunjji - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
Better performance at higher power levels. Certainly not better efficiency, although granted, on a worse node. That said, if part of Apple's strategy is being on a better node before anyone else by building out small dies that yield well, then that's to their credit.The M1 venture looks perfectly reasonable compared with Ryzen 5000 - it's competitive. I never understand why people feel the need to say thing that aren't objectively true out of some sort of loyalty.
JfromImaginstuff - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Both AMD and Intel have arm licenses, so if x86 starts going south and arm becomes ascendent, they aren't gonna go down with x86, the WILL jump ship.GeoffreyA - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
If ARM were to prevail over x86, I'm pretty sure AMD could produce a CPU implementing that ISA and give the competitors a run for their money. But, as Lisa often says, it's all about bets and striking in at the right time. Developing a CPU from scratch takes a couple of years. So, their starting too late could mean trouble. Hopefully, the K12 designs were solid. Or perhaps, they could use much of Zen's design philosophy, and mainly rework the front end.eva02langley - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
I agree and the following is just proving it...Apple M1:
5nm
ARM
16+ hours of battery life
AMD Ryzen 5000 mobile:
7nm
x86
20+ hours battery life
Spunjji - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
This is a ridiculous comparison. Without those battery life figures being normalised to a battery capacity and workload, they're meaningless.Spunjji - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
I'm not finding myself particularly encouraged by the responses here. For a start, unless they're confident that they can out-manufacture Intel by contracting through TSMC, there's a ceiling on how big a slice of the market they can carve out.Similarly, I don't buy the idea that ARM is simply a curiosity to sit alongside the existing market. No doubt it will be enabling some new use-cases, but it's clear that it's already at worst a second-tier option in the Enterprise server market. At the moment it seems more likely that ARM will be taking market share from Intel, but eventually they will be in contention with AMD. Her responses seemed unfussed, so either she knows something we don't about AMD's plans or there's a touch of bravado involved here.
GeoffreyA - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
I agree that Lisa's answers were a bit disappointing today. Usually, I relish reading her thoughts. Respecting ARM, I suppose she can't say much: she's got to be diplomatic and put AMD and x86 in the best light.Combining her answers today and Papermaster's from last time, I reckon AMD didn't think of ARM as too big of a threat, much like Intel's attitude towards AMD in the pre-Ryzen era. Increasingly, this view will be eroded as the months go by, and I'm sure the M1 raised not a few eyebrows at AMD.
Having said that, I think x86 has shown it can actually stand against ARM when it comes to power, and no doubt, the micro-op cache is largely to thank for that. But mass movements often decide a matter, sadly, and right now there's this catchy "newness" about ARM sweeping through computing; something I say with much regret, being a supporter of x86.
Spunjji - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
I'd be inclined to agree with what you've written here. x86 isn't getting knocked out immediately, by any means, but the ARM threat is now credible on multiple fronts.nt300 - Wednesday, January 20, 2021 - link
Why ARM?The primary reasons for this transition are lower costs, a reduction in power requirements and a common platform enabling applications to run on smartphones, tablets and PCs. In turn, this universal platform will enable faster adoption of software and hardware innovations and lead to higher productivity for the end-users.
Basically, Arm-processors have higher performance, lower costs, lower energy requirements and better functionality.
I support x86, and AMD can't do this on there own. Intel needs to get off there Aris and start helping AMD grow the x86 market. Both AMD & Intel need to concentrate on competing against ARM and not against each other. When AMD & Intel battle with each other, that's where ARM gains the most.
GeoffreyA - Tuesday, January 26, 2021 - link
Thanks for the comment. I think it's going to be quite interesting watching how things play out in the next five or ten years, especially now that Microsoft has implemented x64 emulation in Windows ARM.msroadkill612 - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Cor, I like your threads Lisa.5354 - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Dr Sue must be clearly aware of the geopolitical situation involving Taiwan in the form of a rebel communist province dead serious about invading the Republic of China. So why does she put all her eggs in a single TSMC basket?Dug - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
This stuff is planned years in advance. You can't just switch when you please, because there isn't anyone else that can do the manufacturing.Spunjji - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
Ask a stupid question, don't expect an answer. What would /you/ suggest Dr Su* do?AntonErtl - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
I interpret the statements on supply and demand that demand is higher than predicted, and supply is as planned (except that it's unclear how the substrate shortage affects their ability to supply). The comment on priority of OEMs and end-users does not really say so, but the market situation indicates that OEMs have higher priority. That being said, you can buy Ryzen 5x00 in Austria, but prices are high.eva02langley - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
What she said is that since OEMs were releasing their laptop in February, they make sure Ryzen 5000 mobile chips was available to them at this specific timing... right after the console crunch of the holidays. It means that the priority for January and February is Ryzen mobile, as Consoles was the priority for November and December. Usual business is going to take over in March with CPU and GPU.WaltC - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
"M1 is a clear building block for the company to move forward into desktops, workstations, and potentially the enterprise market. This has the potential to affect the relationship between Apple and AMD, especially if Apple decides to also branch out its graphics integration for its own solutions."It never surprises me how little some people understand Apple...;) Sorry, but Apple never, ever looks for competition--ever. The whole thrust of the company under Jobs and since is to avoid competition where it is at all possible by creating new markets if possible where no competition yet exists. Apple is not going to compete with AMD and Intel--not going to happen. Look for M1 to share the same fate as OS X--Apple will never open OS X up to compete with Windows/Linux. And last here, ARM has always been about specific-use cases. ARM is an *embedded, low-power* CPU design and has been that way from the beginning. M1 will be for Apple products only, whatever those may turn out to be. The quote above sounds almost as bad as Jobs telling the world that because he was selling cell phones, now, the world had entered a "post-pc" era. Never happened...;) Of course it never happened. The RDF is strong at Apple.
Spunjji - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
You seem to have interpreted that comment in a very strange way. The fact is that Apple will be pushing products with its own CPUs in all of those sectors, so it *will be* competing with AMD and Intel - in Intel's case, they are going to lose the entire OS X market, and AMD stand to lose it from a graphics perspective.Apple don't need to sell M1 to anyone else to be competing with AMD and Intel. Apple's products ultimately compete with products that contain Intel and AMD's processors. Simple.
WaltC - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Lisa SU: "We are committed to keeping GPU pricing as close to our suggested retail pricing as much as possible, because it’s the only way to be fair to the users. Normally when we have GPU launches, our own branded cards are available initially but then fade away for our partners to pick up. This time around we’re not phasing out our RX 6000 series, enabling us to sell direct to customers as low as possible."Very good news! By this method Apple will control the scalpers and the scalping companies trying to use tariffs as a reason to greatly increase MSRPs on RX-6000 GPUs. By continuing to sell reference designs through the AMD store at normal MSRPs AMD can do much to thwart the greedy resellers. It's disheartening to hear her say that it will be "six months" or so before the shortages are fully alleviated, however. But it's no argument for FAB ownership--I mean, look at how little Intel is achieving with its massive FABs today! Well if this means I get six more months out of my 18-month-old 50th Ann Ed 5700XT, then so be it. It's been a sweet card.
six_tymes - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
corruption to the core. its ok for amd to buy xilinx but not ok for nvidia to buy armSpunjji - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
You don't seem to understand what corruption is, or how antitrust works.Zak90 - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
It's a risky game to deny a segment (e.g. PC) access to the latest product releases for so long. Undoubtedly, an increasingly significant number of customers will end up purchasing whichever company gets there first in finally releasing in number and at 'reasonable/affordable' pricing. AMD are clearly still some way off honouring the volumes associated with both console contracts - and are thus prevented from ramping desktop Zen3 and RDNA2..."tightness" indeed! Nvidia, meanwhile, are still reeling from that 'unexpected' competition and are busy moving as much of that initial stock direct to mining as they can, while converting to Ti and Super variants.For both companies to be equally held back is bizarre indeed. And no, scalping does NOT even begin to explain the blatantly dramatic absence of products in the expected markets.
Ptosio - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
I wish she was pushed more about consumer confusing naming decisions (Ryzen 5000 as both Zen 3 and 2) and about putting years old GPU design into new APUs.MirdhaHuda - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
When PCI-Express 5 for AMD will be coming?Tams80 - Friday, January 15, 2021 - link
I have a lot of respect for Dr. Su, but...damn can she blabber out some corporate bullshit. Frankly, the entire interview seem utterly pointless.
nt300 - Wednesday, January 20, 2021 - link
We are committed to keeping GPU pricing as close to our suggested retail pricing as much as possible, because it’s the only way to be fair to the users?Umm if you are its not working at all. All GPU & CPU pricing is way OVERPRICED!!! $1000 for a Ryzen 7 5800X & $1000 for a RX 6800XT? That ain't keeping pricing as close to your suggested retail pricing. In my opinion, people simply need to STOP Buying Overpriced Hardware, stop feeding the massive Price Hikes or this Sh it will never stop. Supply/Demand be dammed,
Sangrevili - Sunday, January 24, 2021 - link
I'm kind of interested on where AMD stands on HSA. Since the launch of Ryzen, I haven't heard a word from AMD about Ryzen APU's supporting HSA or if AMD even supports its development anymore. They use to boast about HSA allowing for increased performance and better battery life, both of which seem to be very important for Ryzen APU's going forward.Also, given how AMD stated multiple times how HSA could be used to develop platform agnostic programs to work between ARM and x86. It would be interesting to hear where AMD stands on developing the HSA software platform and its adoption these last few years (only platform I can find that supports it is the PS4's custom OS & API).