Wait, what? Asus, of all companies, decides to launch a laptop that ticks essentially every single box for me? What? Taller than 16:9? Check. Decently capable GPU but still portable? Check. Convertible with pen input? Check. AMD APU? Check. 120Hz Adaptive Sync? Check.
The design is admittedly clunky, but this looks VERY interesting.
Also, Gavin (or anyone else on the AT team): any word on what that dock-looking thing with the weird proprietary connector in the gallery is? I see a C14 power plug, several USB ports, Ethernet, DP and HDMI. Is that Asus' proprietary eGPU interface, and is that a portable eGPU? Is that where the 1650 lives?
I'm a little suspicious of the reporting here- I have googled around, and everyone has called it a convertible... but there are no pictures of it folded back as such. It seems like Asus would have included that with the released photos if were really a convertible, no? I also saw a picture of it on a display (I thought CES was all digital this year?) in laptop position.
If you look at the photo of the backside of the screen you can see the hinge design, its definitely a convertible. Not sure why they didn't bother to put up photos in that config though. Also, the photos show a webcam at the top of the screen which is nice given Asus is still leaving it off the G15.
Thanks! That does indeed look pretty interesting, though the RTX 3080 version is _way_ out of my price range. If they launch something like an RTX 3060 version, or sell the laptop without the dock though ... I might just need to scrape some money together.
Having recently played around with a Razer eGPU enclosure, and dealing with all the peculiarities that running one over a USB-C Thunderbolt connection involves (ie, hot swapping issues, buggy USB peripheral device performance, random lag, etc), I do wonder whether this proprietary ASUS PCI-E connection will resolve a lot of those problems. If eGPU is ever to be considered mainstream, it really needs to solve these problems. It needs to be as simple, or even more so, than removing a USB thumb drive.
Actually double check that pen input. Just because they claim it's compatible doesn't mean the stylus is actually usable. There's more than one manufacturer throwing unusable crap digitizers onto the market in the name of convertibles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qzCQuGOFaI (And this video doesn't even test for lag and stabilization) Personally for me I don't think the 1650 is worth the trouble, if they made room for a dGPU at least make it a 1660Ti, in 2021. 1650 belongs with the entry level stuff.
A 1650 is still much better than iGPUs. And this laptop is clearly supposed to be used with a dock if want powerful graphics. A 1660Ti would be nice, but it may well be too power hungry and hot.
As for the stylus digitisers: they are all a bit crap apart from Wacom EMR/S-pen and whatever Apple are doing. No, Microsoft's Pixelsense is not good, especially considering they use additional hardware and it's still wonky.
Now this is a very interesting machine. I've got the Zenbook Flip 14 with the MX150 and its my go-to travel PC, and this looks like a major upgrade in every way, especially CPU performance.
Note that this link is for a bundle with an external 3080 for $3000 (yes, you read that right). Unless the laptop itself without the eGPU is less than half that price, unfortunately this model might be a hard pass. At least its under 3 lbs.
>"If they made this with Intel" See, companies can never win with people on the internet. On the internet everyone is the loud minority, regardless of team
The funny bit is usually the standard "but no Intel" whinge is usually because of Thunderbolt, but this has something way better for docking... so he's just left that bit out 🤣
Way better? You mean a proprietary connector that only works with one dock from one manufacturer which combines a non removable power supply with a laptop class rtx3080, for like almost the same price as entire laptop? LOL no thanks. This thing is going to sell a few 100 units max and will be a great reason for asus to not bother with AMD in next generation.
Yes, I mean a proprietary connector that will actually give good eGPU performance for the first time ever, which contains a power supply (no extra trailing leads), and costs about as much as the included GPU + the extra docking hardware. 👍
I have kind of mixed feelings on this. Thunderbolt eGPUs are buggy, no doubt about it. And it's not a big enough market for the big companies to invest enough resources to fix the inherent problems. So if this ASUS proprietary connector can fix a lot of those problems, then that's terrific, and worth considering.
However, this being exclusive to ASUS, there's no opportunity for upgrading graphics card later down the road in a couple years. And with this high core-count CPU the laptop has, I think it would have the chops to last for 3-5 years. But then again, we'll probably all be switching over to Qualcomm ARM chips by then, lol
You mean it's not TB? What's the actual bandwidth? We already know a single TB connection basically makes everything a waste beyond 1070 if the video feed goes back to the laptop screen.
Thunderbolt performance isn't just limited by the width of the link, timecrap - latency also plays a huge part of why you never get more than about 80% of the GPU's optimal performance, with pathological cases going as low as 60%.
I'm also not sure what you think 99% of workloads on a system explicitly designed for use with a gaming dock would be, if not gaming?
80-pin OCuLink, x8-wide (SFF-8621/SFF-9400, aka Molex "Nano-Pitch I/O") with a USB Type C connector likely for power delivery, in a custom over-mold. A photo of the custom GPU PCBs is up on videocards: https://videocardz.com/newz/asus-announces-rog-flo...
Those are 2, 40-pin connectors, aka x4 links in the top left. Aggregating 2, x4 OCuLink connectors to a x8-wide PCIe is supported in the spec by the PCIe SIG, but I don't understand why they would split the link internally. Except, unless, the IO on the dock is on a x4-wide bus and the GPU is on a x4-wide bus.
I posted this in the Radeon 5000 article, but I think it's worth posting here too. This new Asus Flow X13 laptop is quite unique, and kinda/sorta the first of it's kind of any device out there. How do I mean?
Well, up to now, it's been all but impossible to buy a 360-degree hinged TOUCHSCREEN device, that also has a 120hz refresh panel. The only other laptop that had this were ones from HP that had a first-generation Privacy Screen built-in. The privacy screen has a feature that you can turn on and off to enable the viewing angles to be severely limited when desired. The first-gen versions of these had a knock-on effect of running at 120hz, so the touchscreen, 360-degree foldable versions of those are the only other touchscreen laptops with high refresh panels. None of them had particularly great gaming performance, as the best one available was a 4-core Kaby Lake-R powered Ultrabook. The new versions of HP's Privacy Screen no longer run at 120hz, so it was a limited time option.
That's why I'm so excited about this ASUS laptop. I wish it didn't have an external GPU, and only relied on the iGPU instead. But this is as close to my perfect device that has yet been created.
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Valantar - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Wait, what? Asus, of all companies, decides to launch a laptop that ticks essentially every single box for me? What? Taller than 16:9? Check. Decently capable GPU but still portable? Check. Convertible with pen input? Check. AMD APU? Check. 120Hz Adaptive Sync? Check.The design is admittedly clunky, but this looks VERY interesting.
Also, Gavin (or anyone else on the AT team): any word on what that dock-looking thing with the weird proprietary connector in the gallery is? I see a C14 power plug, several USB ports, Ethernet, DP and HDMI. Is that Asus' proprietary eGPU interface, and is that a portable eGPU? Is that where the 1650 lives?
Omar Daal - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
I'm a little suspicious of the reporting here- I have googled around, and everyone has called it a convertible... but there are no pictures of it folded back as such. It seems like Asus would have included that with the released photos if were really a convertible, no? I also saw a picture of it on a display (I thought CES was all digital this year?) in laptop position.JustAnotherPCEnthusiast - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
If you look at the photo of the backside of the screen you can see the hinge design, its definitely a convertible. Not sure why they didn't bother to put up photos in that config though.Also, the photos show a webcam at the top of the screen which is nice given Asus is still leaving it off the G15.
riccardik - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
if you want the 100% proof linus from ltt just flipped it lolOmar Daal - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
but did it still work afterwards???!? Not quite convinced yet ;)klv12gcn - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGYVLBLKUPoAround 05:50 these is a picture of it doing just that.
I have no idea where he got that picture from, though.
Prestissimo - Monday, January 18, 2021 - link
I really hope this gets Gorilla Glass 6 screen coating for better impact resistance.cigar3tte - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
If it's under 3lb, sold!leo_sk - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Yeah, its the Asus' proprietary egpu interface. Dave Lee gave a look on these on his channel. Worth checking out if you are interestedValantar - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Thanks! That does indeed look pretty interesting, though the RTX 3080 version is _way_ out of my price range. If they launch something like an RTX 3060 version, or sell the laptop without the dock though ... I might just need to scrape some money together.Farfolomew - Thursday, February 4, 2021 - link
Having recently played around with a Razer eGPU enclosure, and dealing with all the peculiarities that running one over a USB-C Thunderbolt connection involves (ie, hot swapping issues, buggy USB peripheral device performance, random lag, etc), I do wonder whether this proprietary ASUS PCI-E connection will resolve a lot of those problems. If eGPU is ever to be considered mainstream, it really needs to solve these problems. It needs to be as simple, or even more so, than removing a USB thumb drive.s.yu - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Actually double check that pen input. Just because they claim it's compatible doesn't mean the stylus is actually usable. There's more than one manufacturer throwing unusable crap digitizers onto the market in the name of convertibles.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qzCQuGOFaI
(And this video doesn't even test for lag and stabilization)
Personally for me I don't think the 1650 is worth the trouble, if they made room for a dGPU at least make it a 1660Ti, in 2021. 1650 belongs with the entry level stuff.
Spunjji - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
I honestly don't think they could squeeze a 1650 in, thermally speaking - although they could have gone for a 1660Ti and a U-series processor?But then it looks like a big draw on this is meant to be the dock, which might explain the choice of beefy CPU and relatively anaemic GPU. 🤷♂️
Prestissimo - Monday, January 18, 2021 - link
It should be a 1650 Max-Q, a lower 35 watt design than a regular GTX 1650.Tams80 - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
A 1650 is still much better than iGPUs.And this laptop is clearly supposed to be used with a dock if want powerful graphics. A 1660Ti would be nice, but it may well be too power hungry and hot.
As for the stylus digitisers: they are all a bit crap apart from Wacom EMR/S-pen and whatever Apple are doing. No, Microsoft's Pixelsense is not good, especially considering they use additional hardware and it's still wonky.
JustAnotherPCEnthusiast - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Now this is a very interesting machine. I've got the Zenbook Flip 14 with the MX150 and its my go-to travel PC, and this looks like a major upgrade in every way, especially CPU performance.arthuryip - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
The other convertible with GTX 1650 is HP's Spectre x360 15. Glad to see some competition. Hopefully it's priced right.JustAnotherPCEnthusiast - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
Not sure why this article is so light on info, but other sites point to the Asus preorder page for this: https://store.asus.com/us/item/202101AM120000009Note that this link is for a bundle with an external 3080 for $3000 (yes, you read that right). Unless the laptop itself without the eGPU is less than half that price, unfortunately this model might be a hard pass. At least its under 3 lbs.
Spunjji - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Thanks for sharing!Tams80 - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
According to LTT, it's about $1,500 each for the laptop and dock.Seems fair enough.
timecop1818 - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
If they made this with Intel and not last gen nv, I would be interested. As of right now, it's dead on arrival.Unashamed_unoriginal_username_x86 - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
>"If they made this with Intel"See, companies can never win with people on the internet. On the internet everyone is the loud minority, regardless of team
Tamz_msc - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
He's a known anti-AMD troll. Don't bother replying to him.Spunjji - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
The funny bit is usually the standard "but no Intel" whinge is usually because of Thunderbolt, but this has something way better for docking... so he's just left that bit out 🤣timecop1818 - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Way better? You mean a proprietary connector that only works with one dock from one manufacturer which combines a non removable power supply with a laptop class rtx3080, for like almost the same price as entire laptop? LOL no thanks. This thing is going to sell a few 100 units max and will be a great reason for asus to not bother with AMD in next generation.Tamz_msc - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
You had to show your hate boner for AMD, didn't you?Tams80 - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
You mean like almost all gaming laptops...Spunjji - Friday, January 15, 2021 - link
Yes, I mean a proprietary connector that will actually give good eGPU performance for the first time ever, which contains a power supply (no extra trailing leads), and costs about as much as the included GPU + the extra docking hardware. 👍Farfolomew - Thursday, February 4, 2021 - link
I have kind of mixed feelings on this. Thunderbolt eGPUs are buggy, no doubt about it. And it's not a big enough market for the big companies to invest enough resources to fix the inherent problems. So if this ASUS proprietary connector can fix a lot of those problems, then that's terrific, and worth considering.However, this being exclusive to ASUS, there's no opportunity for upgrading graphics card later down the road in a couple years. And with this high core-count CPU the laptop has, I think it would have the chops to last for 3-5 years. But then again, we'll probably all be switching over to Qualcomm ARM chips by then, lol
Unashamed_unoriginal_username_x86 - Tuesday, January 12, 2021 - link
You say gaming, but what resolution would you need to be to justify a 5980x if it's paired with a 1650? 720p?Rookierookie - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
It's designed for their proprietary eGPU enclosure.s.yu - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
You mean it's not TB? What's the actual bandwidth? We already know a single TB connection basically makes everything a waste beyond 1070 if the video feed goes back to the laptop screen.Tamz_msc - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
It's PCIe Gen3 x8.Spunjji - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Nice! An actual honest-to-god worthwhile GPU port!timecop1818 - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
99% of typical GPU workloads on a mobile like this are not going to be constrained by 4x pcie links.Tamz_msc - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
You couldn't be more wrong.Slash3 - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
You underestimate Timecop.Tams80 - Thursday, January 14, 2021 - link
Then pray tell why Thunderbolt eGPUs haven't taken off...Spunjji - Friday, January 15, 2021 - link
Thunderbolt performance isn't just limited by the width of the link, timecrap - latency also plays a huge part of why you never get more than about 80% of the GPU's optimal performance, with pathological cases going as low as 60%.I'm also not sure what you think 99% of workloads on a system explicitly designed for use with a gaming dock would be, if not gaming?
Spunjji - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
Way to bury the lede by not mentioning the PCIe 3.0 8x dock! Very very interesting.Digital COrpus - Wednesday, January 13, 2021 - link
80-pin OCuLink, x8-wide (SFF-8621/SFF-9400, aka Molex "Nano-Pitch I/O") with a USB Type C connector likely for power delivery, in a custom over-mold. A photo of the custom GPU PCBs is up on videocards:https://videocardz.com/newz/asus-announces-rog-flo...
Those are 2, 40-pin connectors, aka x4 links in the top left. Aggregating 2, x4 OCuLink connectors to a x8-wide PCIe is supported in the spec by the PCIe SIG, but I don't understand why they would split the link internally. Except, unless, the IO on the dock is on a x4-wide bus and the GPU is on a x4-wide bus.
Spunjji - Friday, January 15, 2021 - link
I think the IO on the dock is also via the USB Type-C. Not sure why they'd split the link, though.Farfolomew - Thursday, February 4, 2021 - link
I posted this in the Radeon 5000 article, but I think it's worth posting here too. This new Asus Flow X13 laptop is quite unique, and kinda/sorta the first of it's kind of any device out there. How do I mean?Well, up to now, it's been all but impossible to buy a 360-degree hinged TOUCHSCREEN device, that also has a 120hz refresh panel. The only other laptop that had this were ones from HP that had a first-generation Privacy Screen built-in. The privacy screen has a feature that you can turn on and off to enable the viewing angles to be severely limited when desired. The first-gen versions of these had a knock-on effect of running at 120hz, so the touchscreen, 360-degree foldable versions of those are the only other touchscreen laptops with high refresh panels. None of them had particularly great gaming performance, as the best one available was a 4-core Kaby Lake-R powered Ultrabook. The new versions of HP's Privacy Screen no longer run at 120hz, so it was a limited time option.
That's why I'm so excited about this ASUS laptop. I wish it didn't have an external GPU, and only relied on the iGPU instead. But this is as close to my perfect device that has yet been created.