In case you have missed it, AMD has launched the CDNA 1.0 architecture.
I suspect the CDNA "Navi 21-equivalent" with 5120 shaders/80 CUs is waiting for 32 GB of HBM2 as a CDNA 'Arcturus-Lite' workstation GPU. Dr Su likes the pro end of things, and gets to dink nVidia with the 6900XT 'Gamer' and its $500 discount. HA!
There are also bunches of "Navi 2X-equivalents" waiting in the wings, too - including what looks to be the new Radeon 6700XT with "Infinity Cache." Gotta think that will split the GeForce RTX 3070 into "no man's land" put price-pressure on the new GeForce RTX 3060 Ti
Considering RDNA has been complete crap for compute compared to its raster performance improvements, I'm going to hope they release some "consumer grade" CDNA pricing. Otherwise the price premium on RDNA makes no sense when it does nothing particularly well except raster graphics.
Compute performance isn't their priority. They have the most powerful x86 CPU's in the industry that are almost entirely underutilized by game developers. Have them offload resources to those cores instead of having the GPU handle computational functions.
CPUs are nowhere near as fast nor efficient as GPUs in certain compute tasks, which is the whole reason CDNA is being produced for their exascale supercomputer projects.
The structure/shaders of GCN are retained between AMD CDNA and AMD RDNA. The "compute arrays" (CUs) are retained, and managed by (I think) four "Asynchronous Compute Engines" (ACE). If I recall correctly the 'original GCN' only had 2 ACEs. AMD is always tweaking the numbers of ACEs
CDNA removes all of the fixed-function graphics hardware of RDNA but keeps the 'old' video encode/decode **Avivo-UVD-VCN** logic.
GCN was a GPGPU compute monster before it was neutered in Polaris (?)
It's already been discussed on Twitter that of the 150k wafer quarter allocation of 300mm 7nm wafers with TSMC 80% of them immediately went to PS5/X Box X and the remaining priorities are OEMs like HP Enterprises, etc., for EPYC CPU orders, Cloud Service Provides ala Microsoft/AWS/Google and more then custom ASIC designs for the likes of Apple in GPUs, etc., with the general DIY people last.
I think you answered your own question, lol its Samsung.
I don't think their 8nm process is that necessarily but I think the yields are pretty off. I noticed IBM Power 10 is built on the same process and their isn't going to be a fully enabled die for that CPU. I don't that thats been the case with past Power CPUs and they've always been pretty big designs.
There's reduced supply of substrate for chips & other components of boards (GPU & MB) which have limited overall supply. They have the silicon but can't finish the products to meet expected demand far less than the actual demand.
Ryan since I suppose many are looking at the performance/$ and the MRSP price is pretty useless so far, will be possible to account a more realistic pricing? I was looking at various historical pricing sources so I suppose is possible to draw a curve about pricing trends for the category and generate a price estimate
Have anyone else observed an unusually big gap between AMD reference cards and AIB custom cards? Both 6800 and 6800XT AIB cards seem to sell for at least 100€ more than the reference designs.
AIBs capitalizing on the absurdly low unit count mixed with absurdly high demand. There are rumors that the profit margin is razor thin as well at MSRP but I don't know if any AIB has confirmed it.
They said profit margin is thin because of airfreight cost for early shipment. Should wait 6-8 weeks when seafreight batches arrive, see if there's any different in price.
Techpowerup has a story on Sweden's biggest online electronics retailer having a grand total of 35 cards to sell; they're doing a lottery to decide who can buy them.
With the world's 12th-highest per capita income Sweden should be a primary market for high-end electronics. Yet Digitec, which had US$1.29 billion in sales last year, gets 35? Newegg, for perspective, has about US$3 billion in annual sales revenue.
Yeah, this is not an issue of "demand is unexpectedly high."
While I understand what you're getting at, I would argue that demand for competitive AMD parts is at RABID levels. Nearly every review of AMD's last several generations has touched on how AMD just "can't compete" with NVIDIA. Now the time has finally come and fanboys and neutral parties alike are pretty damn excited.
What I find most humorous about the whole thing is that the majority of people complaining about supply never intended to buy one in the first place. It's just the latest bandwagon.
I do actually want to upgrade. 3080 looks the sweet spot for me for VR. (6800XT can’t quite match the 3080 there).
I was willing to pony up for the 6900XT and was waiting for 3 hours on various websites for a shot this morning. Closest I got was a loading screen at Bestbuy checkout.
I was hoping to upgrade the wife’s pc with my 1080Ti, taking her up from a 1060.
Demand is high in general and AMD competing with nvidia in raster finally definitely adds fuel to the fire, but I think the real problem is supply. If there was readily available supply I don't think these cards would be very enticing considering their limited utility yet high price. They are only comparable in straight raster performance, so the price premium at almost nvidia levels doesn't really make sense.
In regards to Sweden its largest computer-related news site Sweclockers has a rather short article about the availability of this card (reference design) in the Nordic countries: (a number in the tens) and AMD's recommended price (10900 SEK) vs reality (not really available, so partner cards, that are significantly more expensive, like the Asus TUF gaming 6900XT which just over 15000SEK, and not available at the moment or in the known future either. Great times.
Long story short - 3080 trades blows with the 6800XT, 6900XT trades blows with the 3090. Turn on DLSS and/or ray tracing, and the Nvidia cards blow the AMD cards out of the water.
"Long story short - 3080 trades blows with the 6800XT, 6900XT trades blows with the 3090. Turn on DLSS and/or ray tracing, and the Nvidia cards blow the AMD cards out of the water."
This has always been the arguement. But in reality, RT and DLSS don't exists in every game. RT Is certainly getting more popular, but if you look at CyberPunk, proper RT implementation will tank your performance even on the RTX 3090 and with DLSS on. So if you consider this fact, would you prefer to game with high FPS and image quality or RT on, you will still need to decide on either 1. The fact is that even the RTX 3090 is still not ready for full RT implementation even it is the fastest RT card.
Knowing Nvidia it will happen. The question is will they be able fulfill the demands. Samsung foundries business as it seems is not capable of supplying major clients like Nvidia and TSMC is all over its head with orders for its 7nm process. With too few of players in the advanced processes nodes its big issue for all chip developers to get enough chips made on advanced nodes to the market.
I honestly think this will be a low volume part for the next 1-2 yrs. No way they're gonna use precious wafers for this card when they could use it for much more profitable CPUs. 2022 is likely the real date for competitively priced GPUs.
It's more likely that they need to catch up on their contracts with Microsoft and Sony, rumours are that a very big chunk of AMD's wafers are being used for the console SOCs (rumour has it at 70%).
Springtime there should be more CPUs and GPUs around.
You have mixed using base (6000 series) & peak boost MHz (prev. 5700XT) for calculating "Throughput (FP32)" in the table on page 1. Any particular reason? Either show both clearly or make one of these the standard for all.
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shabby - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
"they’re able to make a $1000 video card that’s guaranteed to sell out"If there's only 5 available then sure, anything will sell out.
Smell This - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
In case you have missed it, AMD has launched the CDNA 1.0 architecture.
I suspect the CDNA "Navi 21-equivalent" with 5120 shaders/80 CUs is waiting for 32 GB of HBM2 as a CDNA 'Arcturus-Lite' workstation GPU. Dr Su likes the pro end of things, and gets to dink nVidia with the 6900XT 'Gamer' and its $500 discount. HA!
There are also bunches of "Navi 2X-equivalents" waiting in the wings, too - including what looks to be the new Radeon 6700XT with "Infinity Cache." Gotta think that will split the GeForce RTX 3070 into "no man's land" put price-pressure on the new GeForce RTX 3060 Ti
whatthe123 - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Considering RDNA has been complete crap for compute compared to its raster performance improvements, I'm going to hope they release some "consumer grade" CDNA pricing. Otherwise the price premium on RDNA makes no sense when it does nothing particularly well except raster graphics.Samus - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Compute performance isn't their priority. They have the most powerful x86 CPU's in the industry that are almost entirely underutilized by game developers. Have them offload resources to those cores instead of having the GPU handle computational functions.whatthe123 - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
CPUs are nowhere near as fast nor efficient as GPUs in certain compute tasks, which is the whole reason CDNA is being produced for their exascale supercomputer projects.Flunk - Monday, December 14, 2020 - link
This is intentional, the average buyer for these cards doesn't really use compute. They want those buyers to buy the higher-end compute-focused cards.Smell This - Wednesday, December 9, 2020 - link
The structure/shaders of GCN are retained between AMD CDNA and AMD RDNA. The "compute arrays" (CUs) are retained, and managed by (I think) four "Asynchronous Compute Engines" (ACE). If I recall correctly the 'original GCN' only had 2 ACEs. AMD is always tweaking the numbers of ACEsCDNA removes all of the fixed-function graphics hardware of RDNA but keeps the 'old' video encode/decode **Avivo-UVD-VCN** logic.
GCN was a GPGPU compute monster before it was neutered in Polaris (?)
Smell This - Wednesday, December 9, 2020 - link
CDNA "consumer grade" pricing: **$6,400 a pop in single unit quantities**
https://www.nextplatform.com/2020/11/16/amd-at-a-t...
A 'cluster' --- maybe $25k with discount
LOL
Kurosaki - Friday, December 11, 2020 - link
@AT: REMEMBER MEEEEEAnd to answer your question WAT
mdriftmeyer - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
It's already been discussed on Twitter that of the 150k wafer quarter allocation of 300mm 7nm wafers with TSMC 80% of them immediately went to PS5/X Box X and the remaining priorities are OEMs like HP Enterprises, etc., for EPYC CPU orders, Cloud Service Provides ala Microsoft/AWS/Google and more then custom ASIC designs for the likes of Apple in GPUs, etc., with the general DIY people last.Why? Money talks, BS walks.
shabby - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
That explains amd's issue, what about Nvidia's? They get their chips from samsung.Operandi - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
I think you answered your own question, lol its Samsung.I don't think their 8nm process is that necessarily but I think the yields are pretty off. I noticed IBM Power 10 is built on the same process and their isn't going to be a fully enabled die for that CPU. I don't that thats been the case with past Power CPUs and they've always been pretty big designs.
jeremyshaw - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Power 10 is being built on Samsung 7nm EUV, not their 8nm process.Operandi - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Guess so... kinda weird they have both. Seems both have yield issues though.scineram - Wednesday, December 9, 2020 - link
No.Operandi - Wednesday, December 9, 2020 - link
Yap.tygrus - Tuesday, December 15, 2020 - link
There's reduced supply of substrate for chips & other components of boards (GPU & MB) which have limited overall supply. They have the silicon but can't finish the products to meet expected demand far less than the actual demand.WaltC - Wednesday, December 9, 2020 - link
So I guess nVidia has sold 2-3 3090's @ ~$1500 (FE)-$1800 (AIB) a whack?...;)ballsystemlord - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
So, is AT going to do a review of these cards?YB1064 - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Good luck finding a card to review. This looks like a paper launch.Ryan Smith - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Yes. I have the card in hand and it will be reviewed as part of catching up with the reviews queue.=)First in, first out, so I have to get the 6800 XT & co done first (among other things).
davide445 - Thursday, December 10, 2020 - link
Ryan since I suppose many are looking at the performance/$ and the MRSP price is pretty useless so far, will be possible to account a more realistic pricing? I was looking at various historical pricing sources so I suppose is possible to draw a curve about pricing trends for the category and generate a price estimatecatavalon21 - Monday, December 28, 2020 - link
Do you have an ECD for either (6800 XT & co, or Nvidia RTX 3xxx series)?Rudde - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Have anyone else observed an unusually big gap between AMD reference cards and AIB custom cards? Both 6800 and 6800XT AIB cards seem to sell for at least 100€ more than the reference designs.whatthe123 - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
AIBs capitalizing on the absurdly low unit count mixed with absurdly high demand. There are rumors that the profit margin is razor thin as well at MSRP but I don't know if any AIB has confirmed it.0iron - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
They said profit margin is thin because of airfreight cost for early shipment. Should wait 6-8 weeks when seafreight batches arrive, see if there's any different in price.ballsystemlord - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
I have. I think they all know they can charge what they want for these things.Galcobar - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Techpowerup has a story on Sweden's biggest online electronics retailer having a grand total of 35 cards to sell; they're doing a lottery to decide who can buy them.With the world's 12th-highest per capita income Sweden should be a primary market for high-end electronics. Yet Digitec, which had US$1.29 billion in sales last year, gets 35? Newegg, for perspective, has about US$3 billion in annual sales revenue.
Yeah, this is not an issue of "demand is unexpectedly high."
Makaveli - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
^^^^ We got a winner!nathanddrews - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
While I understand what you're getting at, I would argue that demand for competitive AMD parts is at RABID levels. Nearly every review of AMD's last several generations has touched on how AMD just "can't compete" with NVIDIA. Now the time has finally come and fanboys and neutral parties alike are pretty damn excited.What I find most humorous about the whole thing is that the majority of people complaining about supply never intended to buy one in the first place. It's just the latest bandwagon.
nobertan - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
I do actually want to upgrade. 3080 looks the sweet spot for me for VR. (6800XT can’t quite match the 3080 there).I was willing to pony up for the 6900XT and was waiting for 3 hours on various websites for a shot this morning. Closest I got was a loading screen at Bestbuy checkout.
I was hoping to upgrade the wife’s pc with my 1080Ti, taking her up from a 1060.
whatthe123 - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Demand is high in general and AMD competing with nvidia in raster finally definitely adds fuel to the fire, but I think the real problem is supply. If there was readily available supply I don't think these cards would be very enticing considering their limited utility yet high price. They are only comparable in straight raster performance, so the price premium at almost nvidia levels doesn't really make sense.jabber - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Yeah it's all us RX480 owners that have been waiting and waiting for a worthwhile upgrade.Unashamed_unoriginal_username_x86 - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Well maybe I would buy one if there were so much supply that they costed pennies! Why aren't they worthless yet?!rsandru - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Digitec is a Swiss company :-) but the rest is indeed correct!Galcobar - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Well, that's embarrassing, especially since the TPU article correctly noted it was a Swiss company.Though, Switzerland's per capita GDP ranks second highest as compared to Sweden's 12th so it's even more ridiculously underserved by so few cards.
matbil - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Swiss = SwitzerlandGrabo - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
In regards to Sweden its largest computer-related news site Sweclockers has a rather short article about the availability of this card (reference design) in the Nordic countries: (a number in the tens) and AMD's recommended price (10900 SEK) vs reality (not really available, so partner cards, that are significantly more expensive, like the Asus TUF gaming 6900XT which just over 15000SEK, and not available at the moment or in the known future either. Great times.davide445 - Thursday, December 10, 2020 - link
Digitech is from Switzerland, just for the sake of accuracyDigitalFreak - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Long story short - 3080 trades blows with the 6800XT, 6900XT trades blows with the 3090. Turn on DLSS and/or ray tracing, and the Nvidia cards blow the AMD cards out of the water.watzupken - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
"Long story short - 3080 trades blows with the 6800XT, 6900XT trades blows with the 3090. Turn on DLSS and/or ray tracing, and the Nvidia cards blow the AMD cards out of the water."This has always been the arguement. But in reality, RT and DLSS don't exists in every game. RT Is certainly getting more popular, but if you look at CyberPunk, proper RT implementation will tank your performance even on the RTX 3090 and with DLSS on. So if you consider this fact, would you prefer to game with high FPS and image quality or RT on, you will still need to decide on either 1. The fact is that even the RTX 3090 is still not ready for full RT implementation even it is the fastest RT card.
sonny73n - Thursday, December 10, 2020 - link
RT on produce the highest image quality.Spunjji - Friday, December 11, 2020 - link
Sure, if you don't mind low frame-rates and/or upscaling.Sttm - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Thank You AMD.Without the 6900XT I would not be getting a 3080Ti.
shabby - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Since nothing is in stock you won't be getting anything 😂Spunjji - Friday, December 11, 2020 - link
It also rests on the bold assumption that a 3080Ti will happen.Eliadbu - Monday, December 14, 2020 - link
Knowing Nvidia it will happen. The question is will they be able fulfill the demands. Samsung foundries business as it seems is not capable of supplying major clients like Nvidia and TSMC is all over its head with orders for its 7nm process. With too few of players in the advanced processes nodes its big issue for all chip developers to get enough chips made on advanced nodes to the market.Alistair - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Long story short, the 6900 XT is up to 50 percent faster per watt and faster overall vs the RTX 3090, for $500 less.https://ibb.co/jGzZgQd
Alistair - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
The fastest card ever made, I can't wait to finally play AC: Valhalla at high fps on my top of the line 1440p monitor.webdoctors - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
I honestly think this will be a low volume part for the next 1-2 yrs. No way they're gonna use precious wafers for this card when they could use it for much more profitable CPUs. 2022 is likely the real date for competitively priced GPUs.Zoolook - Thursday, December 10, 2020 - link
It's more likely that they need to catch up on their contracts with Microsoft and Sony, rumours are that a very big chunk of AMD's wafers are being used for the console SOCs (rumour has it at 70%).Springtime there should be more CPUs and GPUs around.
TelstarTOS - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Yay another paper launchcheckboxpoll - Tuesday, December 8, 2020 - link
Its interesting to see such a massive gulf between the 32bit floating point performance and gaming performance.tygrus - Tuesday, December 15, 2020 - link
You have mixed using base (6000 series) & peak boost MHz (prev. 5700XT) for calculating "Throughput (FP32)" in the table on page 1. Any particular reason? Either show both clearly or make one of these the standard for all.