9/10 people will get 5G because there’s no other choice: 5G isn’t a key differentiator. I’m sure users will much prefer latter 5G phones vs this year’s X55 / X60 rush job.
Somebody’s gotta be first (in their stranglehold monopoly across all major smartphones), so Qualcomm is taking one for the team.
Oh, thank you: I should've written X50/X55. The X60 integration is actually a return to normalcy, but with the stupidity of the past two years' shenanigans, I'll wait to see how it performs.
X55 was the first modem in a very long time that Qualcomm *could not* integrate into its SoCs. It was a second chip that needed to be added to the PCB, significantly increasing cost, complexity, and power draw. If that doesn't scream rushed, I don't know what is.
Integrated modems were the major selling point for Qualcomm for a very long time: their jump to a discrete IC was not....welcome nor expected:
Such a boring Livestream! No wonder they disable the LiveChat section! So much technical jargon! They are such masters in saying a lot but with so little meaning!
M1 does 11 TOPs on the Neural Engine! We don’t know what would be the equivalent number to what Qualcomm presents, though probably it would be smaller.
TOPs is especially problematic for NN's because all it gives is a "guaranteed not to exceed" number; it doesn't give a real-world usage number. (in the same way that LINPACK is useless for predicting anything but dense linear algebra.) (Even apart from the issue of what counts as an "OP" -- does your NN go down to binary networks where the weights are limited to the values 0, +-1?)
CNNs (ie visual tasks) probably get close to that maximum TOPs (though even then there are data flow issues) but far more interesting, IMHO, is how these devices will perform on language, which is a much more irregular task.
I suspect for a few years it's going to be pointless trying to compare across devices. Apps and models built for Android or Intel won't work with Apple and vice versa. Instead we'll get a whole lot more of the usual "Siri sucks" (said by the person who last used it four years ago) with rejoinder "Oh yeah, well Google sucked when I tried it" (said by the person who last used it three years ago), even apart from the issue of no-one outside these companies knows how much performance changes depending on the device hardware (ie maybe the exact same version of Siri understands you somewhat better on an A14 SoC than on an A10 SoC just because a much fancier NN is being used for the voice recognition?)
I guess we'll see tomorrow, but I expect they will have a huge asterix next to this claim. Like, it will beat the A14 in some dumb AI benchmark that has no real world implications. Otherwise, the SD865 isn't even as fast as the A12, much less the A14, so it's hard to see how they could make such a huge leap in one generation.
So Geekbench or SPEC, purely CPU focused, synthetic benchmarks are somehow less dumb? Few of the use cases for a phone in its power envelope actually pivot on single threaded CPU performance except code compilation, javascript execution, and pure benchmarking. It's even less important for VR:
It's just easy and convenient for reviewers to focus on CPU and GPU that have more standard benchmarks accessible to normal power users than other arguably more impactful units like ISP, DSP, modem (A14 doesn't even have one on die) etc. used to take pictures, determine position, transmit data at the fringes of signal.
That said, the A14 CPU will clearly once again win, but a 35% gain in GPU performance quoted from the presentation is meaningful and should put sustained performance above A14:
Disagreed. The modem is not more impactful. I would choose an 855 modem over an 865 and likely also over whatever is next. Why do you assume QC DSP or ISP are better? As best as we know they are not.
Dunno if you've ever hailed an Uber, used google maps, posted photos online from an event or needed to send either text or an email from a phone or needed connectivity in the boonies. After my experience with the utterly flaky Intel modems in recent iPhones, it matters quite a bit to me.
As for DSP / ISP, their performance per watt is industry leading. They also beat wasteful GPU based nVidia designs in TOPS for certain inference workloads in this metric as well.
Good to know newer qualcomm modems allow you to get an uber, google maps access, photo posting and email and texting. Now where do i see those tops metrics in uber use, photos online posting, google maps and boonies connectivity?
Those things are important, but I haven't seen any evidence that Qualcomm is ahead in those areas. I have a Galaxy S9+ and it doesn't seem any better or worse at GPS or cell signal than my wife's iPhone Xs. Her phone certainly feels faster than mine when browsing, though.
Either way, none of those things have to do with how powerful a processor is, which is what Qualcomm was claiming. AI benchmarks might, but other than the native camera app, I haven't heard of many apps that actually use the AI features on these Soc's,
This stupid company is only where it is because worthless US regulators can't break up their cell modem monopoly. I can't wait for their eventual downfall.
Not exactly. They openly license their technology to bring MORE competition and bring the state of the art forward with their in house implementations. Consumers are getting a screaming bargain in what they do pay for good cellular standards when compared to what they pay for iOS app store royalties or underperforming, overpriced x86 processors which have either had little or no competition for decades.
The recent attention they got from misguided regulators lobbied by Qualcomm's customers with little to no presence in cellular patents is more of a testament to Qualcomm's absolute importance to the industry rather than some heroic act in the interest of competition. For a company like Apple, cellular IP (different from IP accelerators i.e. modem) is an input cost for which it is in its interest to reduce so long as it's above 0; note that they didn't legally challenge Intel and just started completely replacing them in their products one day.
It needs pointing out: of those three landscape shots meant to demonstrate dynamic range, only the one in the middle looks even remotely good. While capturing a starry sky and a person in the same shot is impressive on a smartphone, the other two shots have _terrible_ HDR effects. I mean truly horrendous. The right one does that "the sky looks dirty" thing that all bad HDR does, and the left one has the most weirdly imbalanced lighting I've seen in a long time, making it look like a collage thrown together in Photoshop with no adjustments. Thanks, but no thanks.
And with that being the star showcase example for their "AI", I'm still waiting for a convincing example of an actually useful use case for this.
I understand some members of your staff have problems, but this is ridiculous. In the interest of self preservation, isn't it time to get a GPU review done?
All right, good morning. I want to train you for a great service, not just to fix any business dilemma. I want some words on the https://wow24-7.io/inbound-calls and tried this app We spoke to our clients continuously, but we lost time on other activities while we tried. This time most of us invested in expansion and six months later almost doubled our number.
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ikjadoon - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
“50% of users have 5G as a key phone choice”Was this a survey of Qualcomm modem engineers?
9/10 people will get 5G because there’s no other choice: 5G isn’t a key differentiator. I’m sure users will much prefer latter 5G phones vs this year’s X55 / X60 rush job.
Somebody’s gotta be first (in their stranglehold monopoly across all major smartphones), so Qualcomm is taking one for the team.
MetaCube - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
How are the X55/X60 "rushed" ?ikjadoon - Wednesday, December 2, 2020 - link
Oh, thank you: I should've written X50/X55. The X60 integration is actually a return to normalcy, but with the stupidity of the past two years' shenanigans, I'll wait to see how it performs.X55 was the first modem in a very long time that Qualcomm *could not* integrate into its SoCs. It was a second chip that needed to be added to the PCB, significantly increasing cost, complexity, and power draw. If that doesn't scream rushed, I don't know what is.
Integrated modems were the major selling point for Qualcomm for a very long time: their jump to a discrete IC was not....welcome nor expected:
X55 has had a lot of words:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16271/qualcomm-snap...
https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/303289-is-qualc...
https://www.androidauthority.com/qualcomm-snapdrag...
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/02/thanks-qua...
X50: there's no words. It literally only supported 5G and no 4G, thus requiring two modems per device. It was literally targeted for "early trials",
https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/qualcomm-unvei...
SSNSeawolf - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
Ahola Ian Curtes0iron - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
LOL, Aloha 😄DanD85 - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
Such a boring Livestream! No wonder they disable the LiveChat section! So much technical jargon! They are such masters in saying a lot but with so little meaning!MetaCube - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
If you think there's too much technical jargon then the conference isn't targeted to you.YB1064 - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
If you had stuck around, you would have heard their updates on your favorite RGB lights.Ppietra - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
M1 does 11 TOPs on the Neural Engine! We don’t know what would be the equivalent number to what Qualcomm presents, though probably it would be smaller.name99 - Wednesday, December 2, 2020 - link
Somewhere I think I saw 26 TOPs.TOPs is especially problematic for NN's because all it gives is a "guaranteed not to exceed" number; it doesn't give a real-world usage number. (in the same way that LINPACK is useless for predicting anything but dense linear algebra.)
(Even apart from the issue of what counts as an "OP" -- does your NN go down to binary networks where the weights are limited to the values 0, +-1?)
CNNs (ie visual tasks) probably get close to that maximum TOPs (though even then there are data flow issues) but far more interesting, IMHO, is how these devices will perform on language, which is a much more irregular task.
I suspect for a few years it's going to be pointless trying to compare across devices. Apps and models built for Android or Intel won't work with Apple and vice versa.
Instead we'll get a whole lot more of the usual "Siri sucks" (said by the person who last used it four years ago) with rejoinder "Oh yeah, well Google sucked when I tried it" (said by the person who last used it three years ago), even apart from the issue of no-one outside these companies knows how much performance changes depending on the device hardware (ie maybe the exact same version of Siri understands you somewhat better on an A14 SoC than on an A10 SoC just because a much fancier NN is being used for the voice recognition?)
Arsenica - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
So Samsung it's not a S888 partner, which likely means they are going all Exynos for their 2021 flagships.skavi - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
If they don't have Samsung, it's likely A78, not X1. No one wants to pay for a big core other than Samsung, Apple, and maybe Huawei.iphonebestgamephone - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
Lots of chinese brands already announced phones with 888.MTEK - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
Looking to get a S21 next year. Please tell me Samsung is a partner. (not sure how I feel about Exynos)erithacus - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
"S888 is the most powerful mobile processor in the world"Seems unlikely.
cfenton - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
I guess we'll see tomorrow, but I expect they will have a huge asterix next to this claim. Like, it will beat the A14 in some dumb AI benchmark that has no real world implications. Otherwise, the SD865 isn't even as fast as the A12, much less the A14, so it's hard to see how they could make such a huge leap in one generation.Raqia - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
So Geekbench or SPEC, purely CPU focused, synthetic benchmarks are somehow less dumb? Few of the use cases for a phone in its power envelope actually pivot on single threaded CPU performance except code compilation, javascript execution, and pure benchmarking. It's even less important for VR:https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/131867574...
It's just easy and convenient for reviewers to focus on CPU and GPU that have more standard benchmarks accessible to normal power users than other arguably more impactful units like ISP, DSP, modem (A14 doesn't even have one on die) etc. used to take pictures, determine position, transmit data at the fringes of signal.
That said, the A14 CPU will clearly once again win, but a 35% gain in GPU performance quoted from the presentation is meaningful and should put sustained performance above A14:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16192/the-iphone-12...
lmcd - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
Disagreed. The modem is not more impactful. I would choose an 855 modem over an 865 and likely also over whatever is next. Why do you assume QC DSP or ISP are better? As best as we know they are not.Raqia - Wednesday, December 2, 2020 - link
Dunno if you've ever hailed an Uber, used google maps, posted photos online from an event or needed to send either text or an email from a phone or needed connectivity in the boonies. After my experience with the utterly flaky Intel modems in recent iPhones, it matters quite a bit to me.As for DSP / ISP, their performance per watt is industry leading. They also beat wasteful GPU based nVidia designs in TOPS for certain inference workloads in this metric as well.
iphonebestgamephone - Thursday, December 3, 2020 - link
Good to know newer qualcomm modems allow you to get an uber, google maps access, photo posting and email and texting.Now where do i see those tops metrics in uber use, photos online posting, google maps and boonies connectivity?
cfenton - Wednesday, December 2, 2020 - link
Those things are important, but I haven't seen any evidence that Qualcomm is ahead in those areas. I have a Galaxy S9+ and it doesn't seem any better or worse at GPS or cell signal than my wife's iPhone Xs. Her phone certainly feels faster than mine when browsing, though.Either way, none of those things have to do with how powerful a processor is, which is what Qualcomm was claiming. AI benchmarks might, but other than the native camera app, I haven't heard of many apps that actually use the AI features on these Soc's,
ANORTECH - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
Poor Ian Curtes.lmcd - Tuesday, December 1, 2020 - link
This stupid company is only where it is because worthless US regulators can't break up their cell modem monopoly. I can't wait for their eventual downfall.Raqia - Wednesday, December 2, 2020 - link
Not exactly. They openly license their technology to bring MORE competition and bring the state of the art forward with their in house implementations. Consumers are getting a screaming bargain in what they do pay for good cellular standards when compared to what they pay for iOS app store royalties or underperforming, overpriced x86 processors which have either had little or no competition for decades.The recent attention they got from misguided regulators lobbied by Qualcomm's customers with little to no presence in cellular patents is more of a testament to Qualcomm's absolute importance to the industry rather than some heroic act in the interest of competition. For a company like Apple, cellular IP (different from IP accelerators i.e. modem) is an input cost for which it is in its interest to reduce so long as it's above 0; note that they didn't legally challenge Intel and just started completely replacing them in their products one day.
Valantar - Wednesday, December 2, 2020 - link
It needs pointing out: of those three landscape shots meant to demonstrate dynamic range, only the one in the middle looks even remotely good. While capturing a starry sky and a person in the same shot is impressive on a smartphone, the other two shots have _terrible_ HDR effects. I mean truly horrendous. The right one does that "the sky looks dirty" thing that all bad HDR does, and the left one has the most weirdly imbalanced lighting I've seen in a long time, making it look like a collage thrown together in Photoshop with no adjustments. Thanks, but no thanks.And with that being the star showcase example for their "AI", I'm still waiting for a convincing example of an actually useful use case for this.
Ranger1065 - Wednesday, December 2, 2020 - link
I understand some members of your staff have problems, but this is ridiculous. In the interest of self preservation, isn't it time to get a GPU review done?Unashamed_unoriginal_username_x86 - Wednesday, December 2, 2020 - link
WIRELESS FIBER Pepega0zpb1nx - Sunday, April 11, 2021 - link
Thanks for the information0zpb1nx - Sunday, April 11, 2021 - link
All right, good morning. I want to train you for a great service, not just to fix any business dilemma. I want some words on the https://wow24-7.io/inbound-calls and tried this app We spoke to our clients continuously, but we lost time on other activities while we tried. This time most of us invested in expansion and six months later almost doubled our number.