Crazy to think that AMD is competing with the 800 lb. gorilla in both the CPU and GPU business, and if rumors are true, will have a superior product stack to both as 2020 comes to an end. It's quite a feat considering their position just a few years ago.
Lets see if all the cache and tiled rendering rumors are true.
I suppose 128MB of on chip cache is possible. Thats (coincidentally) close to 128mm^2 if its about as dense as Zen 2's L3. But that still a hefty chunk of die space to spend.
True, but look at the memory controller section on the Xbox Series X die. It's huge. Adding large amounts of cache might not be as expensive as it seems.
Do they use 6T SRAM for the cache? If so it will probably take about that kind of die space. Unless of course they use 4T SRAM or (highly unlikely, I know) DRAM.
Doubt it, I'm guessing it ties 3080 in some games but might still be a bit behind. Hope I'm proven wrong though. But I'm sure it's availability will be better.
If (per AMD) the 6900 XT is more or less as fast (slower in some games, faster in other games) as the RTX 3090 then it will obliterate the RTX 3080. That is apparently why Nvidia are reportedly prepping an RTX 3080 Ti. I doubt AMD are completely full of $hit, therefore the graphics card market has for the first time in many years a healthy competition. That's good for graphics cards buyers because competition leads to lower prices.
The funny part is that if RTX 3080 Ti is cut down at all from 3090, it will be slower than 6900 XT. At the rumored 12 GB it would have less VRAM too. What should a 3080 Ti look like?
I wonder will they unveil something akin to DLSS. It will be very interesting to see what the price/performance is going to be like compared to nVidia. And how will the ray-tracing performance be compared to the greens. Nevertheless, I need to upgrade and I will get whichever brand gives me more bang for my buck. :-)
I hope they don't, at least not yet. Unlike with ray-tracing there's no vendor-agnostic way to do DLSS; there's no way to do DLSS on anything other than amd hardware, and similarly any amd equivalent would have to be implemented on a per-game basis for amd hardware only. Hopefully MS are working on an agnostic interface for this kind of thing.
And what would be the reason someone would make and maintain such a thing? Sorry, AMD is going to have to do their own work. Anyway, they don't have the tensor cores in this generation of hardware to run it efficiently, anyway. Maybe RDNA3 will have tensor cores.
Doubt AMD will be able to release a competitive product that can best the Geforce 3080 in the MAJORITY of benchmarks. Even if AMD comes close to 3080 performance but doesn't have the huge power draw would be a win in my book. Just hope they have an ace up their sleeve on the performance/price ratio.
Yes but that is still $50 in your pocket for the 6800XT with supposed equal performance at a lower TDP. For me I personally am most interested in the 6800 vs RTX 3070. With the 3070 being about 1-2% slower than the 2080Ti and AMD claiming an average of 16% faster than the 2080Ti for the 6800, that puts the $579 price at 16% higher than the $499. That is perfect price/performance scaling if the 6800 ends up being as fast as they claim. If you are like me and have a 100Hz 3440x1440 monitor, that will be enough to run at 100Hz most of the time.
Intel + NVIDIA lived in my machines (notebooks) much longer than any other combination AMD + AMD/ATI or Intel + AMD/ATI. In all the cases the AMD GPU killed itself after a few years.
So hopefully AMD worked on improving longevity and quality control too!
The fact that AMD and Nvidia are both pushing nuclear-plant power levels through their GPUs doesn't give me *incredibly* high hopes about the longevity of either, though at least for desktop parts, at least, it might be something that relatively simple maintenance can postpoine/prevent.
That was the same comment I was going to make! 27B xtors pretty amazing! That's almost same xtor count as 3090 at 28B (thanks to techpowerup, where's ya review anand?!).
They're still at the "high" part of the high end. I think there's a lot of buyers who really max out at $500 for a GPU, and I think its sort of interesting that AMD's willing to concede that market through the holidays. Maybe they've got reason to believe that supply will be constrained (on both their and Nvidia's sides) so it doesn't matter... It does look like they'll be selling a 6700XT and a 6700, though, possibly priced at $499 and $449 (or maybe $479 and $429, but that's a pretty big gap between the 6700XT and the 6800).
I'm impressed overall by the current product stack but I'd like to see "Enduro" type switching for AMD's APUs on desktop. A 5000 series APU with around 8 cores that could smartly activate the GPU not just for graphically intensive content, but when its own power budget would be exceeded by just its CPU, would be a killer setup for the work from home era.
While obviously a discrete CPU-GPU combo would be cheaper and more powerful, I don't have room for a large case with advanced cooling. As such my fan noise during gaming can be a bit on the loud side. A setup where my GPU fan doesn't even activate for the majority of my work day would be a big plus.
All of AMD's benchmarks today have their "one click OC" (Rage Mode) and the Ryzen 5000 series boost enabled; I'm VERY curious to see what the real-world performance implications are.
It could well be that the Radeon 6000-series is only ever faster than the comparable Nvidia part for those who are also running a Ryzen 5000 processor on a 500-series mobo.... given the pricing, that may actually mean that the Nvidia parts are a smarter buy for anyone who's on Intel, a Zen 2-based CPU, or using an older motherboard.
I'm also really surprised that AMD was willing to concede the "$500 max" GPU budget market through the holiday season.
I think you missed the 6800XT slide which showed performance with Rage mode ON and OFF. You may want to take another look. But AMD was competing with equivalent Nvidia cards without Rage mode. The Rage mode showed a double digit % gain for best case and about 5% for lower case shown. 6900 was definitely with Rage mode only but then its priced significantly cheaper.
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sorten - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Crazy to think that AMD is competing with the 800 lb. gorilla in both the CPU and GPU business, and if rumors are true, will have a superior product stack to both as 2020 comes to an end. It's quite a feat considering their position just a few years ago.SirPerro - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Old school AMD is the best AMD. I love how they heating the competition.Smell This - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
I'm thinking the Big Bad Shoe will drop with the XSX __ and I'm not a console guy.
brucethemoose - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Lets see if all the cache and tiled rendering rumors are true.I suppose 128MB of on chip cache is possible. Thats (coincidentally) close to 128mm^2 if its about as dense as Zen 2's L3. But that still a hefty chunk of die space to spend.
PixyMisa - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
True, but look at the memory controller section on the Xbox Series X die. It's huge. Adding large amounts of cache might not be as expensive as it seems.MrSpadge - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
That Cache may also save power by avoiding going into DRAM.brucethemoose - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Well yes thats the idea. That, and its faster.It works pretty darn well on mobile, after all.
Santoval - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Do they use 6T SRAM for the cache? If so it will probably take about that kind of die space. Unless of course they use 4T SRAM or (highly unlikely, I know) DRAM.nandnandnand - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
RX 6900 XT = RTX 3090?shabby - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Doubt it, I'm guessing it ties 3080 in some games but might still be a bit behind. Hope I'm proven wrong though.But I'm sure it's availability will be better.
fallaha56 - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
doubt your doubts ;)this is already confirmed in most leaks, just not in ray tracing
esp 1440p eSports will be AMD, esp if comp Intel/nVidia vs AMD/AMD
nandnandnand - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
You were proven wrong. RX 6900 XT = $1000, comparable performance to RTX 3090.shabby - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Good, now let's hope they can supply the cards since Nvidia can't.Santoval - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
If (per AMD) the 6900 XT is more or less as fast (slower in some games, faster in other games) as the RTX 3090 then it will obliterate the RTX 3080. That is apparently why Nvidia are reportedly prepping an RTX 3080 Ti. I doubt AMD are completely full of $hit, therefore the graphics card market has for the first time in many years a healthy competition. That's good for graphics cards buyers because competition leads to lower prices.nandnandnand - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
The funny part is that if RTX 3080 Ti is cut down at all from 3090, it will be slower than 6900 XT. At the rumored 12 GB it would have less VRAM too. What should a 3080 Ti look like?Zodfrey - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
I wonder will they unveil something akin to DLSS. It will be very interesting to see what the price/performance is going to be like compared to nVidia. And how will the ray-tracing performance be compared to the greens. Nevertheless, I need to upgrade and I will get whichever brand gives me more bang for my buck. :-)brucethemoose - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
An open source, universal DLSS would be amazing, even if its not as clean as Nvidia's implementation.ArcadeEngineer - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
I hope they don't, at least not yet. Unlike with ray-tracing there's no vendor-agnostic way to do DLSS; there's no way to do DLSS on anything other than amd hardware, and similarly any amd equivalent would have to be implemented on a per-game basis for amd hardware only. Hopefully MS are working on an agnostic interface for this kind of thing.brucethemoose - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
This is not true. A content agnostic, real time NN upscaler is totally doable.But its not going to be as refined as DLSS. Also, its going to have more of a performance hit without dedicated silicon like Nvidia's tensor cores.
Yojimbo - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
And what would be the reason someone would make and maintain such a thing? Sorry, AMD is going to have to do their own work. Anyway, they don't have the tensor cores in this generation of hardware to run it efficiently, anyway. Maybe RDNA3 will have tensor cores.imaskar - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Tensor cores are just a fancy name for fp vector instructions.Spunjji - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Hoping for something good, but tempering my expectations on price/availability.gigahertz20 - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Doubt AMD will be able to release a competitive product that can best the Geforce 3080 in the MAJORITY of benchmarks. Even if AMD comes close to 3080 performance but doesn't have the huge power draw would be a win in my book. Just hope they have an ace up their sleeve on the performance/price ratio.nandnandnand - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
s/3080/3090/gfallaha56 - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
happy to be wrong but why doubt it as this is what all the leaks point toinc leaks confirming 20gb 3080 has been cancelled in favour of a 3080Ti 12gb model
SirPerro - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
If AMD and Nvidia fight each other pretty hard and get me some 3060-grade card for 200€... I couldn't care less about 600€ cardswebdoctors - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Dang, pricing is a let down, only 10% diff between the 2 giants 6800xt vs 3080....nandnandnand - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
That's assuming RTX 3080 is actually available at $700.schujj07 - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Yes but that is still $50 in your pocket for the 6800XT with supposed equal performance at a lower TDP. For me I personally am most interested in the 6800 vs RTX 3070. With the 3070 being about 1-2% slower than the 2080Ti and AMD claiming an average of 16% faster than the 2080Ti for the 6800, that puts the $579 price at 16% higher than the $499. That is perfect price/performance scaling if the 6800 ends up being as fast as they claim. If you are like me and have a 100Hz 3440x1440 monitor, that will be enough to run at 100Hz most of the time.nandnandnand - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
I just checked. They said 18% faster than 2080 Ti, not 16%.schujj07 - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
That works out to a better price/performance ratio than RTX 3070 then assuming independent benchmarks show the information is accurate.spartaman64 - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
INTEL OUTDATED, NVIDIA OVERRATED, LONG HAVE WE WAITED, AMD ACTIVATEDZingam - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Intel + NVIDIA lived in my machines (notebooks) much longer than any other combination AMD + AMD/ATI or Intel + AMD/ATI. In all the cases the AMD GPU killed itself after a few years.So hopefully AMD worked on improving longevity and quality control too!
sing_electric - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
The fact that AMD and Nvidia are both pushing nuclear-plant power levels through their GPUs doesn't give me *incredibly* high hopes about the longevity of either, though at least for desktop parts, at least, it might be something that relatively simple maintenance can postpoine/prevent.faizoff - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
It's apparently a 26 min pre-recorded segment.FreckledTrout - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
26.8B transistors.... whoawebdoctors - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
That was the same comment I was going to make! 27B xtors pretty amazing! That's almost same xtor count as 3090 at 28B (thanks to techpowerup, where's ya review anand?!).128MB cache, dang things are getting HUGE.
DigitalFreak - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Do AMDs drivers still suck though? Seems they have more issues in games than Nvidia.vladx - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Guaranteed they do still, unless AMD hired thousands of testers in past few months...Qasar - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
so says the anti amd vladx....vladx - Thursday, October 29, 2020 - link
I'm just being realistic, sorry that triggers you so much...Zingam - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Good but where are the mobile chips?Machinus - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
What are the leads on 6700?romrunning - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
16GB std on the 6800s - nice!valinor89 - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
To be honest, was hoping for a launch of a lower tier of cards too. >500$ is high end no matter what anyone says.nandnandnand - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Lisa Su said something to the effect of "You wanted us to compete in the high end", so yes, these are high end GPUs.sing_electric - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
They're still at the "high" part of the high end. I think there's a lot of buyers who really max out at $500 for a GPU, and I think its sort of interesting that AMD's willing to concede that market through the holidays. Maybe they've got reason to believe that supply will be constrained (on both their and Nvidia's sides) so it doesn't matter... It does look like they'll be selling a 6700XT and a 6700, though, possibly priced at $499 and $449 (or maybe $479 and $429, but that's a pretty big gap between the 6700XT and the 6800).nandnandnand - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Another $80 for more performance and double the VRAM isn't the hardest sell, but we'll see.5j3rul3 - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Is it stable enough to defeat RTX Ampere?lmcd - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
I'm impressed overall by the current product stack but I'd like to see "Enduro" type switching for AMD's APUs on desktop. A 5000 series APU with around 8 cores that could smartly activate the GPU not just for graphically intensive content, but when its own power budget would be exceeded by just its CPU, would be a killer setup for the work from home era.lmcd - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
While obviously a discrete CPU-GPU combo would be cheaper and more powerful, I don't have room for a large case with advanced cooling. As such my fan noise during gaming can be a bit on the loud side. A setup where my GPU fan doesn't even activate for the majority of my work day would be a big plus.sing_electric - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
All of AMD's benchmarks today have their "one click OC" (Rage Mode) and the Ryzen 5000 series boost enabled; I'm VERY curious to see what the real-world performance implications are.It could well be that the Radeon 6000-series is only ever faster than the comparable Nvidia part for those who are also running a Ryzen 5000 processor on a 500-series mobo.... given the pricing, that may actually mean that the Nvidia parts are a smarter buy for anyone who's on Intel, a Zen 2-based CPU, or using an older motherboard.
I'm also really surprised that AMD was willing to concede the "$500 max" GPU budget market through the holiday season.
mirasolovklose - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
I think you missed the 6800XT slide which showed performance with Rage mode ON and OFF. You may want to take another look. But AMD was competing with equivalent Nvidia cards without Rage mode. The Rage mode showed a double digit % gain for best case and about 5% for lower case shown. 6900 was definitely with Rage mode only but then its priced significantly cheaper.Olaf2k4 - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
it's all moot , drivers are shit ... not going wreck my nerves again with an AMD GPU again ...Smell This - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
Your shoe is untied . . .