UPDATE! I screwed up in comment 28 above and neglected to mention this in the article. The iDEQ 210P actually *CAN* use a two slot graphics card. That makes high-end cards like the 6800 Ultra an option, as well as quieter solutions like the Silencer GPU HSF. I'm not sure how many will actually notice this post, but it's one more point in favor of the 210P.
Update: I inadvertently stated that the ASUS quick-boot mode supports MP3 CDs. It does not. Sorry for any confusion. The Aopen and Foxconn do support this feature, but my brain got a little scambled in the process of reviewing all five units.
27 - at least for the units in this roundup, none of them could take a large two-slot graphics card. The AGP slots are all on the outside, so the HSF would end up outside the case. Clearance even with the X800 Pro used was tight on several of the cases and it required a bit of finagling to install. Any of the cards that use a large cooler like the Silencer would also not fit in the cases. I'll be sure to make note of any SFFs that could actually accept a two-slot GPU, though.
Excellent reviews, I appreciate all the hard work.
Since noise is a big issue, it'd be nice to see how well some of the new, larger and passively cooled video cards fit, if at all.
I could see that as being difficult since they'll all be different, but maybe future reviews could offer an idea of how much clearance would be available to work with.
#21 - We're working on getting the Iwill dual-CPU system. We'll see what Iwill has to say. :)
#19 - The unit reviewed was the EA65-II. There is an EA65-IIa as well as an EA65-IIa 2.0. The only difference between the IIa models is the version of InstantON included, and I believe you can download the latest version and turn the IIa into the IIa 2.0. Does that make sense? Also, I don't think the IIa is available in the US yet, but should be within the next month or two.
If you don't mind a spoiler (yeah, right), the Pentium M desktop/HTPC that I have for review is louder than the SFFs in this roundup (other than the e-bot). However, it is a fully configured and loaded system with two HDDs, a 6800GT, etc. I've checked with the manufacturer about the noise levels and will see if I can get it reduced. Right now, the HSF is really huge - it looks like a Pentium 4 HSF, which is probably overkill for the Pentium M 2.0.
On a side note, if you haven't seen the die of the Dothan, it's REALLY SMALL! About half the size of a dime. Pretty crazy to see that much power in such a small size.
I am interesting in the Aopen EA65-IIa, but got confused about the new model name. You mentioned the new model is EA65-IIa first, but followed by EA64-IIa.... Is it a typo or is Aopen going to release AMD64 version of the EA in the near future.
When do you think you can have the P-M on desktop review?? I can't wait to have one... enough for the noise from any of my computers...including Shuttle and Dell..... :(
Now that it looks like AMD is coming out with additional Socket 754 Sempron CPU's, the Biostar really looks like a good choice. It's not like one needs huge CPU power for a HTPC, as long as it does a good job of encoding/decoding, and the Sempron should also run fairly cool. Add a Hauppauge WinTV PVR-150/250 and a discrete ATI graphics card (for additional hardware-assist MPEG-2 playback and VIVO) and it looks to be a really good choice.
11, 12 - I'll have to see about those two units. For the Iwill, at least, they would either need to send processors or I would have to get some sent from AT HQ. I don't have any server parts at my location for testing.
I'd been looking at that Biostar SFF, as its specs are better than the equivalent Shuttle version, and is much cheaper. And now you drop a great review for it! I think that both I and my brother are going to use it for our new systems. Thank you for the kickarse review!
#6 - fixed, along with a few other things I noticed. If anyone sees anything else, feel free to drop me a line.
#7/#8 - both of those are on the list of S939 systems we have coming for review. (We haven't received the PCIe one yet, but it should arrive sometime soon.) Unfortunately, most of the "high end" SFFs that we currently have are S775 for whatever reason. I think we have eight 775 units and only three 939 right now. I'd really like to see additional S754 units as well, since Sempron is moving in that direction.
I think one of the reasons that we're seeing more Intel SFFs is due to the chipset support. 865G is really almost the same price as 865PE, so the integrated graphics are "free". They're not good for gaming, but for most other tasks they work well. The only AMD platform chipsets with IGP are currently the outdated VIA K8M800 and the SiS stuff, although there are some newer offerings.
In case any of you aren't aware of this, we really can't afford to simply go out and purchase every item that we want to review. Since the reviews are basically "free" advertising (although if a unit has serious problems, it may not be good), the manufacturers have to send us the parts. In case any manufacturers are reading this, get in touch with us and we'll be happy to review any of your SFFs that you send our way! There are quite a few manufacturers that aren't currently represented.
The iDEQ doesn't include any notable extras **included**, but it does have all of the high quality standard features that we like.
There was one more "it" that shoud have been "if", but I forgot where it was. Sorry :-)
I thought this article would include a MAC mini, but I guess that will be a separate article altogether.
If I may, I would suggest you only focus on SFF systems which stand out in a positive way and stay clear of the ones that don't. Just seems like a lot of pointless work.
Been waiting for anand's SFF reviews. Looking forward to the A64-939 / Intel 775 review that I'm sure will be next.
arswihart - Note that the SB61G2V3 is Shuttle's latest socket 478, Intel-based system. All of their newer products are socket 775 which will be in a later review. However, I think there are plenty on the AMD side that could've been covered instead that are socket 754...the SN85G4V3 ain't too shabby.
Absolutely no way that 7 bright blue leds in the Aopen (which only get brighter) should be considered acceptable or "minor" for an entertainment system, in my opinion. My shuttle has only two lights and I've had to cover them up with electrical tape with a small pinhole in order to cut down on the extremely distracting glare coming from it while watching a movie...the orange HD led flashes (as it should) which is even more distracting...
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gerf - Thursday, March 24, 2005 - link
I noticed! :Dbut i doubt that you will notice back anyway. Heh
JarredWalton - Tuesday, December 6, 2005 - link
Touche! And only 9 months late. LOLJarredWalton - Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - link
UPDATE! I screwed up in comment 28 above and neglected to mention this in the article. The iDEQ 210P actually *CAN* use a two slot graphics card. That makes high-end cards like the 6800 Ultra an option, as well as quieter solutions like the Silencer GPU HSF. I'm not sure how many will actually notice this post, but it's one more point in favor of the 210P.JarredWalton - Friday, February 18, 2005 - link
Update: I inadvertently stated that the ASUS quick-boot mode supports MP3 CDs. It does not. Sorry for any confusion. The Aopen and Foxconn do support this feature, but my brain got a little scambled in the process of reviewing all five units.JarredWalton - Friday, February 18, 2005 - link
27 - at least for the units in this roundup, none of them could take a large two-slot graphics card. The AGP slots are all on the outside, so the HSF would end up outside the case. Clearance even with the X800 Pro used was tight on several of the cases and it required a bit of finagling to install. Any of the cards that use a large cooler like the Silencer would also not fit in the cases. I'll be sure to make note of any SFFs that could actually accept a two-slot GPU, though.benjin - Friday, February 18, 2005 - link
Excellent reviews, I appreciate all the hard work.Since noise is a big issue, it'd be nice to see how well some of the new, larger and passively cooled video cards fit, if at all.
I could see that as being difficult since they'll all be different, but maybe future reviews could offer an idea of how much clearance would be available to work with.
JarredWalton - Thursday, February 17, 2005 - link
The Kloss is amoung the systems in the 775 roundup I'm working on. Do they have a 939 version as well?Noli - Thursday, February 17, 2005 - link
can you include the Trigem Kloss as well pls? Sounds and looks pretty cool.. (esp if they have an A64 version - anyone know?)http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/200502161/index....
JarredWalton - Thursday, February 17, 2005 - link
23 - I've sent a request to Biostar for any additional units, particularly Athlon 64 units. The same goes for several other companies.REMF - Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - link
Biostar are are about to release an nForce4 SFF in their 300 series chassis. :DJarredWalton - Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - link
#21 - We're working on getting the Iwill dual-CPU system. We'll see what Iwill has to say. :)#19 - The unit reviewed was the EA65-II. There is an EA65-IIa as well as an EA65-IIa 2.0. The only difference between the IIa models is the version of InstantON included, and I believe you can download the latest version and turn the IIa into the IIa 2.0. Does that make sense? Also, I don't think the IIa is available in the US yet, but should be within the next month or two.
If you don't mind a spoiler (yeah, right), the Pentium M desktop/HTPC that I have for review is louder than the SFFs in this roundup (other than the e-bot). However, it is a fully configured and loaded system with two HDDs, a 6800GT, etc. I've checked with the manufacturer about the noise levels and will see if I can get it reduced. Right now, the HSF is really huge - it looks like a Pentium 4 HSF, which is probably overkill for the Pentium M 2.0.
On a side note, if you haven't seen the die of the Dothan, it's REALLY SMALL! About half the size of a dime. Pretty crazy to see that much power in such a small size.
SUOrangeman - Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - link
Request the Iwill ZMAXdp ($675 at NewEgg) for the next SFF piece! :)GoatHerderEd - Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - link
NM, the firewire is on the front. I still thing there should be a port or two on the back though.silentcomputing - Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - link
Nice job, Jarred.I am interesting in the Aopen EA65-IIa, but got confused about the new model name. You mentioned the new model is EA65-IIa first, but followed by EA64-IIa.... Is it a typo or is Aopen going to release AMD64 version of the EA in the near future.
When do you think you can have the P-M on desktop review?? I can't wait to have one... enough for the noise from any of my computers...including Shuttle and Dell..... :(
GoatHerderEd - Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - link
#12, Wow, I got the Shuttle SN95G. But I really want that Iwill dual Opteron! That thing looks so sweet! No fire wire though )=#8, Why do you say the SN95G is unreliable? I think its pretty good. Boot up time isnt as fast as my Nforce2 XP 1800+, but its faster otherwise.
LoneWolf15 - Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - link
Now that it looks like AMD is coming out with additional Socket 754 Sempron CPU's, the Biostar really looks like a good choice. It's not like one needs huge CPU power for a HTPC, as long as it does a good job of encoding/decoding, and the Sempron should also run fairly cool. Add a Hauppauge WinTV PVR-150/250 and a discrete ATI graphics card (for additional hardware-assist MPEG-2 playback and VIVO) and it looks to be a really good choice.smn198 - Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - link
I've said it before but would it be possible to present the non-linear noise measurements on a non-linear scale?That would more accurately show that with the IGP, the foxconn is over twice as loud as the others.
Don't mean to seem critical. Great read. That is why I keep coming back.
#3. Read the first few paragraphs of the review. Besides, it is very cheap now.
smn198 - Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - link
"Shuttle is able to use a single fan to fool both the CPU as well as the case"I've been trying that for years but have never successfully managed to fool them both at once!
CrystalBay - Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - link
Thanks JW, Iknow it's a lot to ask.JarredWalton - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
11, 12 - I'll have to see about those two units. For the Iwill, at least, they would either need to send processors or I would have to get some sent from AT HQ. I don't have any server parts at my location for testing.CrystalBay - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
Hi, How about the dual Opteron Iwill, that keeps flashing on the right.skunklet - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
there is an ideq with an embedded c3 proc that i would love to see a review of.gerf - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
I'd been looking at that Biostar SFF, as its specs are better than the equivalent Shuttle version, and is much cheaper. And now you drop a great review for it! I think that both I and my brother are going to use it for our new systems. Thank you for the kickarse review!JarredWalton - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
#6 - fixed, along with a few other things I noticed. If anyone sees anything else, feel free to drop me a line.#7/#8 - both of those are on the list of S939 systems we have coming for review. (We haven't received the PCIe one yet, but it should arrive sometime soon.) Unfortunately, most of the "high end" SFFs that we currently have are S775 for whatever reason. I think we have eight 775 units and only three 939 right now. I'd really like to see additional S754 units as well, since Sempron is moving in that direction.
I think one of the reasons that we're seeing more Intel SFFs is due to the chipset support. 865G is really almost the same price as 865PE, so the integrated graphics are "free". They're not good for gaming, but for most other tasks they work well. The only AMD platform chipsets with IGP are currently the outdated VIA K8M800 and the SiS stuff, although there are some newer offerings.
In case any of you aren't aware of this, we really can't afford to simply go out and purchase every item that we want to review. Since the reviews are basically "free" advertising (although if a unit has serious problems, it may not be good), the manufacturers have to send us the parts. In case any manufacturers are reading this, get in touch with us and we'll be happy to review any of your SFFs that you send our way! There are quite a few manufacturers that aren't currently represented.
Phantronius - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
Im hoping the SN25P turns out to be reliable unlike the SN95G.That and the way the PCI-E cards are facing the opposite direction makes me wonder about heat with both slots taken up. Hrmm....
REMF - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
AT - don't even consider doing your high-end round up until you have the new nForce4 P-series Shuttle due to be released at the end of the month.i would also like to see the nForce3 G5-Series Shuttle compared against it, and other high-end SFF chassis'. :D
AtaStrumf - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
WAU, that is one massive review! Good work guys.Just one typo to point out on page 8:
The iDEQ doesn't include any notable extras **included**, but it does have all of the high quality standard features that we like.
There was one more "it" that shoud have been "if", but I forgot where it was. Sorry :-)
I thought this article would include a MAC mini, but I guess that will be a separate article altogether.
If I may, I would suggest you only focus on SFF systems which stand out in a positive way and stay clear of the ones that don't. Just seems like a lot of pointless work.
MIDIman - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
Been waiting for anand's SFF reviews. Looking forward to the A64-939 / Intel 775 review that I'm sure will be next.arswihart - Note that the SB61G2V3 is Shuttle's latest socket 478, Intel-based system. All of their newer products are socket 775 which will be in a later review. However, I think there are plenty on the AMD side that could've been covered instead that are socket 754...the SN85G4V3 ain't too shabby.
quidpro - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
Absolutely no way that 7 bright blue leds in the Aopen (which only get brighter) should be considered acceptable or "minor" for an entertainment system, in my opinion. My shuttle has only two lights and I've had to cover them up with electrical tape with a small pinhole in order to cut down on the extremely distracting glare coming from it while watching a movie...the orange HD led flashes (as it should) which is even more distracting...arswihart - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
what the hell were they thinking when they chose to review this obsolete Shuttle system?Midian191 - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
The latest bios version of the 210P has voltage control and bios control of the fan speed.OrSin - Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - link
If you want smaller review a mini-itz systems.They are pretty weak, but it depends what you want to use them for.