Damn, those prices. I mean yeah, i’ve gotten used to Huawei’s general (and often, unsubstantiated) bragging regarding their products but 900€ for the base model is too much. It lacks so much and it ain’t the best (at everything) phone around. Also, given the current economical situation, you’d think they’d cut down on those prices a bit, especially since their entire manufacture and assembly process is done locally.
It's said that Mate40 families, particularly the Pro version will only be available in China where customers would like to pay such high prices to support their local industry.
Customers in China don't like to pay high prices to support their local industry. Huawei phones seem to cost the same in China as in the US, whereas Apple phones cost more in China than in the US. I think this is because there's an extra tax on the Apple phones. But people in general want an Apple phone so they still sell very well.
China has 17% VAT but certain industries can get it back in tax rebate. It's up to the company whether they want to keep it or pass it to consumers. This is why Huawei phones cost the same in US as in China whereas Apple is more expensive.
This is why VAT tax is called politicians' favorite tax. VAT is mostly invisible to consumers and subject to all kinds of backdoor political lobbying that transfers power to the political class from the common people.
They have reduced the VAT fax from 17 to 16 and now is 13%, for all companies. The tax rebates for Huawei is introduced only recently, after US' sancations. Higher price in China is purely marketing reason. In Hongkong, they don't have to pay any tax at all, which suggests the price should be around 17% lower, but it is actually more than 30% cheaper. In mainland Apple wants to maintain very highend.
This is absolutely not true at all. Iphones are status symbols in China and people are constantly getting overseas friends to sneak them in. Every other phone company is considered either niche for the tech obsessed or bargains in comparison to iphones, very few people would deliberately buy a huawei phone just to support local industry.
Wow, you know China so well. Receptionists who earn less than $800 a month living Shanghai own iPhones. It's hardly a status symbol. Rich and successful business people often stay away from Apple.
FYI, $800 in Shanghai barely covers living costs. And yes, if by very few people you mean ten of millions, sure. My parents and practically all their friends asks for Huawei phones, for example. I had to explain to them Honor is a Huawei subsidiary when I bought them their new phones.
Huawei phones have been joked as mom and dad phones for a couple of years now because so many older people (50+) would only buy from them. You have to be very delusional to think very few people do that.
True but Apple still works better as a status symbol, regardless of the actual cost as a proportion of living costs. Similarly, Starbucks works far better than Costa as a place to take selfies(in China), regardless of the fact that Costa is actually slightly more upscale. iPhone preorders reached another peak this year IIRC?
8 years ago iphone was status symbols. Nowadays, business men, upper middle class, government officials etc. buy Huawei. Other people buy Xiaomi or Vivo or Oppo. Only street girls buy iPhone.
My friends told me 8 years ago everyone attended the banquet used a iPhone, now Huawei to iPhone ratio is more linke 8:1 among his friends, who are high ranked executives.
Hey Andrei, if/when you review these models, could you verify whether they use the main module or the UWA at 23mm equiv.? We could only count on you for a test in such detail :)
And here I was thinking, with the USA technology sanctions on Huawei they would be limited to only using regular 7nm TSMC, ARM Cortex A76, Mali G76, and develop their own Operating System. So it would be competitive upto QSD 855, and only be able to sell upto Late-2018.
Well, it seems the sanctions have been mostly a joke. Huawei has managed to circumvent them.
Not only are they using one of the latest Android OS (albeit without GMS), but they are using the latest 5nm TSMC lithography, have the latest Mali G78 GPU in their SoC, and are using a still competitive ARM Cortex A77 CPU. So this latest Kirin 9000 SoC is somewhat competitive against (QSD 875) SoC's coming to the market in 2021, and the phone itself isn't that obsolete either. The public were lead to expect Huawei being stuck in 2019 technology as stated above.
Warning: not an American, nor do I agree with their politics surrounding the issue. Just wanted to point out the discrepancy.
The sactions have only hit recently and this new SoC was already in production when it happened. I believe that it was in the news that Huawei ordered 15 millions chips but TSMC was only able to deliver 8 millions or so.
Agreed. I still think the whole notch idea is fundamentally daft, when there are so many things that could go into a smallish blank strip at the top of the display.
Huawei is an excellent example of the recent anticompetetive accusations. Here we have a *HUGE* Android OEM, selling hardware and services for what is ostensibly an open source OS. But Android is so tied up with Google that Huawei can barely function, even with a whole generation to set up AppGallery.
It's terrible. I tried turning off google play services on my moto g power, and everything from the ALARM CLOCK to gmail to third party apps jsut refused to work.
That isnt open at all, that's one step removed from apple.
This might depend on how the phone is configured by its manufacturer. I have owned until now 3 smartphones, 2 generations of Sony Xperia Compact and now an ASUS Zenfone 6.
I do not have any Google account, so I have never used Google play services.
All these 3 phones bothered me a lot the first time when I had turned them on, attempting repeatedly to convince me to open a Google account and activate Google play services, but after refusing to do that, everything worked OK. All the preinstalled applications worked OK and they already covered most things that I wanted to do with a smartphone.
I could do anything else that I desired by connecting them to a PC, turning on debugging mode and using the ADB tools. That cannot be done with an Apple phone.
Google is still deeply embedded in the system even if you never sign in.
To really get away from it, you have to flash LineageOS or some other 3rd party ROM. And that still lets one login and use google services though a browser or the gapps thing, which is much less intrusive.
Sadly so many users are entrusting Google to install the "Google framework" which is a spyware in fact in exchange for a little peice of convenience. Is synchronization that important?
You act like consumers have a choice in the matter. Want to use email on your phone? Want to sync your contacts, text messages, back up your photos, and the like?
Well you need google framework for that, and it is usually pre installed.
I just read a really good article about this, the alternative to big tech is not small tech, it's Chinese big tech, so obsessing over competition within the US in the big picture of competition with China is actually self-sabotage. If you don't support Google, Baidu will come along with even more privacy infringement and a magnitude more scams. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-big-te... The link may expire(as Edge homepage links do) so if it can't load you could look up the article name on The Hill.
I think thats just more evidence that the western countries need more privacy and targeted advertising legislation. It would put competitors (including Chinese competitors) on the same playing field.
Hmmm, how would that put competitors on the same playing field? Remember that it's impossible to have the Chinese market operate under the same rules. First of all western big tech is largely banned from China anyway, and other rules regarded as widely accepted like net neutrality don't apply in China either, so even if you have Chinese tech grown wild in a blue ocean market with lax anti-trust regulation compete against local tech grown shackled in the US under the same rules, their money comes easier and faster from their home market and that's an unfair advantage.
They still have to comply with local laws, otherwise they can't operate.
Google is on the reverse end of that deal, in fact. They're getting blasted for complying with local Chinese law, when the alternative is just exiting that market entirely.
Compared to Apple, Google has been much more firm in their stance with the Chinese government, Google only has minimal ad operations in China, as for Android, the variants in China have already been stripped of most things Google anyway, similar to what Huawei's currently trying to export.
The fact that it's open source or not has nothing to do with if the source code is tied up. Android is open source and that is a fact, but it's also a fact that it was written in such a way that you will have trouble disabling some features. You can however still go and rewrite the portions of code for that. Note that Google(and whatever helps maintain the code) isn't really obligated with writing code in the way that you want. This isn't anticompetitive at all. Though I am not saying that what Google is doing isn't shady or anything, it just isn't really a fair comparison.
Anti-competitive would be if say, Google put code that would cripple Huawei SoCs perfomance if detected or such.
Huawei may be a security risk(And supporting communists) a compromise, I am not willing to take.. But they are building the best cameras that users need. When will google learn what users need?
AV1 is pretty intriguing, but I've got a feeling that VVC, despite patent nonsense, is going to prevail, once x266 is released. I saw a study where VVC already shows much better compression than AV1 (and HEVC), and encoding speed appears to be all right.
I agree. AVC has stood the test of time. One might even call it the MP3 of video. I still prefer its video quality to HEVC's (though of course at lower bitrates it can't win). I think that is why I'm hoping VVC delivers the goods, and can't wait for x266 to be released and added to FFmpeg.
Me too, tired of the claim that HEVC delivers indistinguishable quality from AVC, in fact it's always inferior except at very poor bitrates that I would generally avoid anyway.
Interesting choice of adjectives. VVC/x266 was tested to show reduce an h.264 video by an additional 6-7% vs. AV1. Napkin math implies the VVC file will be 11-12% smaller. You call this "much" better compression.
To obtain this ~11-12% size improvement, encoding taxes 2.5-3x as long. You describe needing at least 2.5x the processing power as "appears to be all right".
AV1 codec is now built into hardware & CPUs shipping now. VVC decoding isn't yet in any hardware.
So basically you're counting on content providers to:
1. Eat the royalty fees they would otherwise save on AV1 2. Backtrack on their current transition to AV1 3. Wait a few years for VVC to show up in living rooms 4. Eat the additional server costs of encoding at 1/3rd speed
All to save approximately 11-12% of the bandwidth vs. AV1? It's possible but it seems like a steep hill to climb.
h.265 didn't become an overwhelming standard, probably for the same factors listed above, and who's to say that by the time VVC hardware finally arrives in the wild, that AV2 won't be just around the corner waiting to leapfrog it again?
The battery really isnt that impressive. The moto g power is noticeably smaller yet carries a 5000MaH cell, compared to this 4400MaH cell. 9.1mm is not thin by any measure, not sure why they didnt go for the full monte and get a larger unit.
The Google-less android sounds nice. I wish some US models could get that.
Battery life on HW always better than the same mah from other brand thanks to chip and software. Also the weaker phones like Moto G Power use a smaller chip and smaller camera module...etc so they have room for bigger battery.
They do claim that this is the last generation of Kirin, may be a marketing stunt though. I do think they'll restart Kirin if they get TSMC access back. Also, supply of this phone is severely restricted, I heard they may be trying to keep some stock of the SoC, enough for a P50 release.
How is Huawei getting access to TSMC's 5nm node? I thought their contract got suspended by US trade regulations. The 5nm Scanners that build these chips are made with American technology. Moreover, TSMC was supposedly barred from future contracts when they were on the 7nm node. This doesn't make sense.
Tsmc shipments to Huawei ended mid September, and 5 nm has been in HVM since May, so they have had several months to produce Kirin 9000, they might even have switched some wafers with Apple to push out extra Kirins before the deadline, not that they'd tell us about it.
"The Mate 40 Pro+ switches the periscope unit to a 10x optical magnification with a 240mm equivalent focal length with a smaller 8MP sensor and f/4.4 aperture, with OIS, and includes a fourth module in the form of a 12MP 3x optical 70mm equivalent 12MP f/2.4 unit with OIS."
Yeah but Andrei's reviews are solid, this was probably rushed, and announcements are largely unimportant anyway, most media regurgitate the same thing.
Yeah, the writing quality at AnandTech has collapsed over the past couple of years. It's awful, way below normal tech journalism standards. There are apparently no editors.
If you wirte fsirt and lsat lteter of the wrod cretorcly, the rset can be a cipomlte gbragae and siltl ptelfercy raladebe. This is due to the fact that the brain remembers complete words, not individual letters.
Summa summarum, during casual reading; meaning; not actively looking for errors, errors are usually invisible.
"The new Kirin 9000 is are the core of the discussion" I am from South Africa, so I am used to seeing sentences like this from the Afrikaans side but seeing it here is a little funny. Maybe a small correction is in order hehe.
Because they are the smartphone equivalent of gaming consoles. PS4 has APU from 2013 and can more or less hold it's own against modern CPUs. Android must support a plethora of ARM architecture implementations.
"it rarely manages to catch Arm’s new CPU IP release cycle, and as we expected doesn’t take advantage of the newer A78 or X1 CPUs that we expect from upcoming Exynos and Snapdragon chipsets in a few months."
For some perspective to those who still see PC processors as some epitome of high tech.. This chip has almost 4 billion MORE transistors than AMD's newest most advanced mobile chip Ryzen 9 4900HS!! And according to this data, it should reach over 2TFLOPS of GPU compute power.. Think about that..
2? Wow. Thing is, a PC with a 3090 is close to 300. Even without tensor cores being utilized its still at over 35. But you go ahead and build your PC out of a phone/tablet chip.
First - 3090 has 29TFLOPS, jot 300. Second - it's die size iz 10x bigger than this entire SoC (that also has CPU, integrated 5G modem, ISP and AI components) Third - It's TDP is HUNDRED TIMES bigger.
Overall, in terms of advancement and efficiency there is indeed no comparison.
But you go ahead..be impressed with your thirsty, loud 1000hp V12 7l engine while i admire this 1l supercharged hybrid wonder that by far beats sit in power per liter and barely spends any fuel.
Not the same thing. There's no indication that Mali G78MP24 could linearly scale by 10x, or even by 2x, remember this is already the official max configuration, nobody knows how it would scale from here, but probably not very well.
I'm not saying it would scale linearly..of course it wouldn't. But the fact is, this is some astonishing efficiency. Remember, we are talking an entire SoC with an 8 core CPU , 5G modem, AI and ISP to go along with a 2TFLOP GPU on a 70mm² of 3W silicon. It's ridiculous.
No..mobile SoC TDP refers to the typical and not the maximum load. It's the same for every other processor. The latest "12W" AMD chips go over 35W in maximum load for example.
So...? It's also on a more advanced node. When you are talking about transistors quantity/density, that is nodes and not the architecture(which is what people talk about when saying that PC cpus are more high tech, specially since they are tuned for speed). Plus, 5nm is around 1.8 times the density of 7nm.
And by pure tflops, that should be around an AMD HD 6870? Certainly impressive for an iGPU(though you should note that it should be around a Vega 11 iGPU), but not sure what is your point there, it's certainly not comparable to PC tech. We also have no idea how it performs vs PC iGPUs either, as tflops is generally theoretical and there are many factors that can affect a GPU performance, you can't really compare GPUs from totally different architetures and all and say one is better or worse due to tflop.
There is a lot more to GPU than just theoretical(aka peak) tflops and they aren't really a good indication of GPU performance as people would lead you to believe.
Huawei choose to max out the number of cores that they could in their iGPU and this is also very much affected by the bigger die over competing chips like apple A14.
The Nintendo Switch uses a Nvidia GPU(Tegra SoC), and not an ARM GPU. Plus it's not like it was a super maxed design or anything. The Nintendo Switch had a launch price of $299.99, this is like comparing a midrange phone gpu to a flagship one. A three years old tech in fact to a soon-to-be released flagship.
Also keep in mind that Huawei likely made some pretty severe tradeoffs to get that big of a GPU, power consumption is very likely one of them.
And in the end just like many integrated GPU designs, it might just be limited because of it's sharing memory bandwidth with the CPU. Even if LPDDR5 helps over LPDDR4, in the end there is no miracle there. In fact, one reason why Intel and AMD don't really increase their GPU cores in their iGPUs, is because it will just be limited by bandwidth anyway.
I am not saying that the GPU isn't impressive or anything but that you are way overhyping it. Wait for the results before rushing to say that this equal to PC processors/parts.
Huawei can put out as much awesome hardware as they like. Their Android implementation is still horrible, to put it mildly. Lots of issues with power saving measures, users getting locked out of features that are intended to work in the background, even checking email while the screen is off often doesnt work. Lots of problems with Bluetooth because of that too. Even their own whitelists dont work, not even with Google apps. And then of course the massive amount of bloatware that cant be uninstalled, not to mention their crappy updates that not only happen far too rarely, but also often break things.
Their M.O is simple right? First they join the market and went straight dumping prices everywhere from low spec up to top tier devices, to kill their competitors. Once they all died and only few remaining, they went to that similar "normal prices" which the old competitors give for each tiers/classes, if not more.
And we all, consumers, medias (like anandtech), cheers them for it. We defend their action as the most "beneficial" to us.
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liquid_c - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
Damn, those prices. I mean yeah, i’ve gotten used to Huawei’s general (and often, unsubstantiated) bragging regarding their products but 900€ for the base model is too much. It lacks so much and it ain’t the best (at everything) phone around. Also, given the current economical situation, you’d think they’d cut down on those prices a bit, especially since their entire manufacture and assembly process is done locally.brucethemoose - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
On the contrary, high prices make sense, as they're going to be severely supply limited.Spunjji - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Have to agree with this. If you don't have many devices to sell, why bother setting a price that will attract more customers than you have products?Hifihedgehog - Sunday, November 1, 2020 - link
Exactly. This is introductory economics. If you have:1. Decreased supply
2. Unchanged demand
Then the result is:
3. Increased price.
Scarcity increases price unless demand goes down sharply enough to nullify scarcity’s effect.
EthiaW - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
It's said that Mate40 families, particularly the Pro version will only be available in China where customers would like to pay such high prices to support their local industry.Yojimbo - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
Customers in China don't like to pay high prices to support their local industry. Huawei phones seem to cost the same in China as in the US, whereas Apple phones cost more in China than in the US. I think this is because there's an extra tax on the Apple phones. But people in general want an Apple phone so they still sell very well.wr3zzz - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
China has 17% VAT but certain industries can get it back in tax rebate. It's up to the company whether they want to keep it or pass it to consumers. This is why Huawei phones cost the same in US as in China whereas Apple is more expensive.This is why VAT tax is called politicians' favorite tax. VAT is mostly invisible to consumers and subject to all kinds of backdoor political lobbying that transfers power to the political class from the common people.
BenFish - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
They have reduced the VAT fax from 17 to 16 and now is 13%, for all companies. The tax rebates for Huawei is introduced only recently, after US' sancations.Higher price in China is purely marketing reason. In Hongkong, they don't have to pay any tax at all, which suggests the price should be around 17% lower, but it is actually more than 30% cheaper. In mainland Apple wants to maintain very highend.
EthiaW - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
First, Huawei's market share in the Chinese highend phone market has been 40%, matching apple.Second, Huawei phones are not available in USA at all.
whatthe123 - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
This is absolutely not true at all. Iphones are status symbols in China and people are constantly getting overseas friends to sneak them in. Every other phone company is considered either niche for the tech obsessed or bargains in comparison to iphones, very few people would deliberately buy a huawei phone just to support local industry.dotjaz - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Wow, you know China so well. Receptionists who earn less than $800 a month living Shanghai own iPhones. It's hardly a status symbol. Rich and successful business people often stay away from Apple.dotjaz - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
FYI, $800 in Shanghai barely covers living costs. And yes, if by very few people you mean ten of millions, sure. My parents and practically all their friends asks for Huawei phones, for example. I had to explain to them Honor is a Huawei subsidiary when I bought them their new phones.dotjaz - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Huawei phones have been joked as mom and dad phones for a couple of years now because so many older people (50+) would only buy from them. You have to be very delusional to think very few people do that.s.yu - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
True but Apple still works better as a status symbol, regardless of the actual cost as a proportion of living costs. Similarly, Starbucks works far better than Costa as a place to take selfies(in China), regardless of the fact that Costa is actually slightly more upscale. iPhone preorders reached another peak this year IIRC?alexherrys - Sunday, October 25, 2020 - link
Rich and successful business people often stay away from Apple.MykeM - Friday, November 13, 2020 - link
Some of the richest and most successful business people are also Apple users:https://imgur.com/a/GmAYNa0
mattbe - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Status symbol? More people own iPhone than you think and I don't see how owning one is a status symbol.Also, the only reason why iPhones needed to be "sneaked in" is because they launched later in China. This is no longer the case... for many years now.
Roy2002 - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
8 years ago iphone was status symbols. Nowadays, business men, upper middle class, government officials etc. buy Huawei. Other people buy Xiaomi or Vivo or Oppo. Only street girls buy iPhone.My friends told me 8 years ago everyone attended the banquet used a iPhone, now Huawei to iPhone ratio is more linke 8:1 among his friends, who are high ranked executives.
pugster - Tuesday, November 10, 2020 - link
Iphones WAS the status symbol of China. Now it is Huawei.WJMazepas - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
In the datasheet, it says that the GPU is the G76 while in the rest of the article says that its the G78ballsystemlord - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
@Andrei As above, ^^ in the table it says that the GPU is the G76 while the rest of the article says that it's the G78.Andrei Frumusanu - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
Fixed.s.yu - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Hey Andrei, if/when you review these models, could you verify whether they use the main module or the UWA at 23mm equiv.? We could only count on you for a test in such detail :)Kangal - Saturday, October 24, 2020 - link
And here I was thinking, with the USA technology sanctions on Huawei they would be limited to only using regular 7nm TSMC, ARM Cortex A76, Mali G76, and develop their own Operating System. So it would be competitive upto QSD 855, and only be able to sell upto Late-2018.Well, it seems the sanctions have been mostly a joke. Huawei has managed to circumvent them.
Not only are they using one of the latest Android OS (albeit without GMS), but they are using the latest 5nm TSMC lithography, have the latest Mali G78 GPU in their SoC, and are using a still competitive ARM Cortex A77 CPU. So this latest Kirin 9000 SoC is somewhat competitive against (QSD 875) SoC's coming to the market in 2021, and the phone itself isn't that obsolete either. The public were lead to expect Huawei being stuck in 2019 technology as stated above.
Warning: not an American, nor do I agree with their politics surrounding the issue. Just wanted to point out the discrepancy.
persondb - Sunday, October 25, 2020 - link
The sactions have only hit recently and this new SoC was already in production when it happened. I believe that it was in the news that Huawei ordered 15 millions chips but TSMC was only able to deliver 8 millions or so.Sttm - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
The doublewide holepunch display is the dumbest of displays. Just do a notch if you have to have two front cameras!mmrezaie - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
I bought oneplus nord and returned it the same day because of it.Spunjji - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Agreed. I still think the whole notch idea is fundamentally daft, when there are so many things that could go into a smallish blank strip at the top of the display.brucethemoose - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
Huawei is an excellent example of the recent anticompetetive accusations. Here we have a *HUGE* Android OEM, selling hardware and services for what is ostensibly an open source OS. But Android is so tied up with Google that Huawei can barely function, even with a whole generation to set up AppGallery.TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
It's terrible. I tried turning off google play services on my moto g power, and everything from the ALARM CLOCK to gmail to third party apps jsut refused to work.That isnt open at all, that's one step removed from apple.
AdrianBc - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
This might depend on how the phone is configured by its manufacturer. I have owned until now 3 smartphones, 2 generations of Sony Xperia Compact and now an ASUS Zenfone 6.I do not have any Google account, so I have never used Google play services.
All these 3 phones bothered me a lot the first time when I had turned them on, attempting repeatedly to convince me to open a Google account and activate Google play services, but after refusing to do that, everything worked OK. All the preinstalled applications worked OK and they already covered most things that I wanted to do with a smartphone.
I could do anything else that I desired by connecting them to a PC, turning on debugging mode and using the ADB tools. That cannot be done with an Apple phone.
brucethemoose - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
Google is still deeply embedded in the system even if you never sign in.To really get away from it, you have to flash LineageOS or some other 3rd party ROM. And that still lets one login and use google services though a browser or the gapps thing, which is much less intrusive.
TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
Not having an account is a completely different beast to disabling the service via the settings menu.EthiaW - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
Sadly so many users are entrusting Google to install the "Google framework" which is a spyware in fact in exchange for a little peice of convenience. Is synchronization that important?TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
You act like consumers have a choice in the matter. Want to use email on your phone? Want to sync your contacts, text messages, back up your photos, and the like?Well you need google framework for that, and it is usually pre installed.
brucethemoose - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
And not uninstallable without hacking the phobe.s.yu - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
I just read a really good article about this, the alternative to big tech is not small tech, it's Chinese big tech, so obsessing over competition within the US in the big picture of competition with China is actually self-sabotage. If you don't support Google, Baidu will come along with even more privacy infringement and a magnitude more scams.https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-big-te...
The link may expire(as Edge homepage links do) so if it can't load you could look up the article name on The Hill.
brucethemoose - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Lesser evil huh?I think thats just more evidence that the western countries need more privacy and targeted advertising legislation. It would put competitors (including Chinese competitors) on the same playing field.
s.yu - Saturday, October 24, 2020 - link
Hmmm, how would that put competitors on the same playing field? Remember that it's impossible to have the Chinese market operate under the same rules. First of all western big tech is largely banned from China anyway, and other rules regarded as widely accepted like net neutrality don't apply in China either, so even if you have Chinese tech grown wild in a blue ocean market with lax anti-trust regulation compete against local tech grown shackled in the US under the same rules, their money comes easier and faster from their home market and that's an unfair advantage.brucethemoose - Monday, October 26, 2020 - link
They still have to comply with local laws, otherwise they can't operate.Google is on the reverse end of that deal, in fact. They're getting blasted for complying with local Chinese law, when the alternative is just exiting that market entirely.
s.yu - Monday, October 26, 2020 - link
Compared to Apple, Google has been much more firm in their stance with the Chinese government, Google only has minimal ad operations in China, as for Android, the variants in China have already been stripped of most things Google anyway, similar to what Huawei's currently trying to export.persondb - Sunday, October 25, 2020 - link
The fact that it's open source or not has nothing to do with if the source code is tied up.Android is open source and that is a fact, but it's also a fact that it was written in such a way that you will have trouble disabling some features.
You can however still go and rewrite the portions of code for that.
Note that Google(and whatever helps maintain the code) isn't really obligated with writing code in the way that you want.
This isn't anticompetitive at all. Though I am not saying that what Google is doing isn't shady or anything, it just isn't really a fair comparison.
Anti-competitive would be if say, Google put code that would cripple Huawei SoCs perfomance if detected or such.
sharath.naik - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
Huawei may be a security risk(And supporting communists) a compromise, I am not willing to take.. But they are building the best cameras that users need. When will google learn what users need?TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
Google doesnt care what users need. They have a duopoly along with apple, and short of a third competitor they wont change.quorm - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
Lol, these dang communists won't stop selling me things!Spunjji - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
🤣s.yu - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Gcam has what photographers need, a stacked RAW, and soon will Apple.SydneyBlue120d - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
AV1 decoding and encoding?brucethemoose - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
This ^I would be shocked if it had an AV1 encoder though.
GeoffreyA - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
AV1 is pretty intriguing, but I've got a feeling that VVC, despite patent nonsense, is going to prevail, once x266 is released. I saw a study where VVC already shows much better compression than AV1 (and HEVC), and encoding speed appears to be all right.brucethemoose - Saturday, October 24, 2020 - link
All the public benches of VVC I've seen are misleading. It isn't done yet either.Anyway, people said that about HEVC, and look where we are now. AVC is still everywhere, partially due to the patent issues.
GeoffreyA - Saturday, October 24, 2020 - link
I agree. AVC has stood the test of time. One might even call it the MP3 of video. I still prefer its video quality to HEVC's (though of course at lower bitrates it can't win). I think that is why I'm hoping VVC delivers the goods, and can't wait for x266 to be released and added to FFmpeg.s.yu - Saturday, October 24, 2020 - link
Me too, tired of the claim that HEVC delivers indistinguishable quality from AVC, in fact it's always inferior except at very poor bitrates that I would generally avoid anyway.grant3 - Tuesday, November 17, 2020 - link
Interesting choice of adjectives. VVC/x266 was tested to show reduce an h.264 video by an additional 6-7% vs. AV1. Napkin math implies the VVC file will be 11-12% smaller. You call this "much" better compression.To obtain this ~11-12% size improvement, encoding taxes 2.5-3x as long. You describe needing at least 2.5x the processing power as "appears to be all right".
AV1 codec is now built into hardware & CPUs shipping now. VVC decoding isn't yet in any hardware.
So basically you're counting on content providers to:
1. Eat the royalty fees they would otherwise save on AV1
2. Backtrack on their current transition to AV1
3. Wait a few years for VVC to show up in living rooms
4. Eat the additional server costs of encoding at 1/3rd speed
All to save approximately 11-12% of the bandwidth vs. AV1? It's possible but it seems like a steep hill to climb.
h.265 didn't become an overwhelming standard, probably for the same factors listed above, and who's to say that by the time VVC hardware finally arrives in the wild, that AV2 won't be just around the corner waiting to leapfrog it again?
TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
The battery really isnt that impressive. The moto g power is noticeably smaller yet carries a 5000MaH cell, compared to this 4400MaH cell. 9.1mm is not thin by any measure, not sure why they didnt go for the full monte and get a larger unit.The Google-less android sounds nice. I wish some US models could get that.
dudedud - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
9.1mm?That's thick!
My iPhone 11 is 8.3mm and feels chunky
TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
The moto G power is 9.6mm thick, still feels like a fragile plate.The droid 2 was 13.7mm thick. Now that was a chunky phone.
s.yu - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
But that's two layers that are each fragile and could break separately:)Kabm - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Battery life on HW always better than the same mah from other brand thanks to chip and software.Also the weaker phones like Moto G Power use a smaller chip and smaller camera module...etc so they have room for bigger battery.
5j3rul3 - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
It's lot of errors in the spec listdefaultluser - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
So, is this yet-another proof that Trump's Huawei lock-down has completely fizzled?s.yu - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
They do claim that this is the last generation of Kirin, may be a marketing stunt though. I do think they'll restart Kirin if they get TSMC access back.Also, supply of this phone is severely restricted, I heard they may be trying to keep some stock of the SoC, enough for a P50 release.
persondb - Sunday, October 25, 2020 - link
Dude, the Huawei lock down has happened for what 1 or 2 months?Those chips were already in production way before then.
5j3rul3 - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
1. Mate 40 only has 40W SCP，no Wireless charge2. There is phone called Mate 30E Pro, Which use Kirin 990E 5G SoC
3. Leather verison of M40P is 9.5 mm
4. M40P is 162.9 mm long
5. Kirin 9000E has a NPU within 1xbig core + 1xsmall core, Kirin 9000 has 2xbig cores + 1xsmall cores
6. Kirin 9000 Series SoCs is using BT5. 2 with LDAC rather than BT5.1
7. Mate 40 Pro(+) have 66W SCP and 50W Wireless SCP
8. UWA Cam of Mate 40 Pro is 1/1.54" cmos
9. Tele Cam has 1/3.56" cmos
10. Front cam may has AF and RYYB Sensor
5j3rul3 - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
11. Main Cam OIS: M40(X) M40P(X) M40P+(O), M40RSPD(O)12. Front cam can shot 1080P @ 240 fps video
13. Rear ToF: M40(X) M40P(X) M40P+(O) M40RSPD(O)
14. m40 series using USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-C
15. m40 does have 3.5 mm
16. IP68: M40P M40P+ M40RSPD, IP53: M40
17. M40RSPD Colle edition: 12+512
M40RSPD: 12+256/512
M40P+: 12+256
M40P: 8+128/256/512
M40: 8+128/256
M30EP5G: 8+128/256
18. K9000 Series have BT LE
19. Battery:
RSPD/Pro+/Pro are 4
20. Kirin 9000E: G76MP14, 7nm euv, 5G SoC, 1XB Core+1xscore NPU
5j3rul3 - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
21 Battery:RSPD/Pro+/Pro: 4400 typ 4300 acu
M40: 4200 typ 4100 acu
22.
M40 leather : 158.6x72.5x9.2, 184g
M40 glass: 158.6x72.5x8.8, 188g
Pro leather: 162.9x75.5x9.5, 212g
Pro Glass: 162.9x75.5x9.1, 212g
Pro+: 162.9x75.5x8.8, 230g
RSPD: 162.9x75.5x10.1, 234g
M30EP5G:....
23. M40: 1080P @ 960 fps (AI frame insert)
Pro / Pro+ / RSPD: 720P @ 4320 fps (AI Frame insert)
30EP5G: 720P @ 7680 fps (AI Frame Insert), 720P @ 1920 fps (Original)
24. color temp senor: m40p doesn't have
Barometer: m40 does have
Infrared temp sensor: RSPD colle edition only, RSPD doesn't have
25. M40 Series have pre-calbration to the screen
26. Kirin 9000 support WiFi 6 with 160MHz, but no WiFi 6E @ 6 GHz Support
27. M40 Seris support geo location up 4 bands and 7 systems----
GPS (L1 + L5)
AGPS
GLONASS
Beidou (B1I + B1B + B1C + B2a)
GALILEO (E1 + E5a + E2b)
QZSS (L1 + L5 双频)
NavIC
5j3rul3 - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
There's a conflict in M40P's specOfficial site says there's no color temp sensor on m40p, but the official store claims m40p having color temp sensor
Who's correct?
AMDSuperFan - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
This phone won't be able to keep up with the new 5000 series AMD chips.Morawka - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
How is Huawei getting access to TSMC's 5nm node? I thought their contract got suspended by US trade regulations. The 5nm Scanners that build these chips are made with American technology. Moreover, TSMC was supposedly barred from future contracts when they were on the 7nm node. This doesn't make sense.Zoolook - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Tsmc shipments to Huawei ended mid September, and 5 nm has been in HVM since May, so they have had several months to produce Kirin 9000, they might even have switched some wafers with Apple to push out extra Kirins before the deadline, not that they'd tell us about it.supdawgwtfd - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
"The new Kirin 9000 is are the core of the discussion"Is are huh?
Anandtech is a joke.
supdawgwtfd - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
"but this new GPU is still quite a freak that comes quite unexpectedly,"Quite quite....
Really.
Spunjji - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Commenters relentlessly complaining about minor grammatical errors is the real joke here.GeoffreyA - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
100%. I don't understand why they do this.Beaver M. - Saturday, October 24, 2020 - link
Because they are filled with hate.Samus - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
I bet this CPU is faster than the SQ1 in the disappointingly slow $1000 Surface XSpunjji - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
It definitely is, it's two generations newer!AMDSuperFan - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
But not as fast as Big Navi!supdawgwtfd - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
"The Mate 40 Pro+ switches the periscope unit to a 10x optical magnification with a 240mm equivalent focal length with a smaller 8MP sensor and f/4.4 aperture, with OIS, and includes a fourth module in the form of a 12MP 3x optical 70mm equivalent 12MP f/2.4 unit with OIS."Got this in there twice.
Some proof reading is just to hard huh?
Luminar - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
Chill, English isn't his first language.Sailor23M - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Lols.yu - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Yeah but Andrei's reviews are solid, this was probably rushed, and announcements are largely unimportant anyway, most media regurgitate the same thing.JoeDuarte - Thursday, October 22, 2020 - link
Yeah, the writing quality at AnandTech has collapsed over the past couple of years. It's awful, way below normal tech journalism standards. There are apparently no editors.Spunjji - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Lots and lots of commenters who bleat about errors that don't seem to get in the way of most readers, though.bigvlada - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
If you wirte fsirt and lsat lteter of the wrod cretorcly, the rset can be a cipomlte gbragae and siltl ptelfercy raladebe. This is due to the fact that the brain remembers complete words, not individual letters.Summa summarum, during casual reading; meaning; not actively looking for errors, errors are usually invisible.
WickedMONK3Y - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
"The new Kirin 9000 is are the core of the discussion" I am from South Africa, so I am used to seeing sentences like this from the Afrikaans side but seeing it here is a little funny. Maybe a small correction is in order hehe.29a - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Why is it that Apple phones can get by on half the RAM and still blow Android phones out of the water performance wise?bigvlada - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Because they are the smartphone equivalent of gaming consoles. PS4 has APU from 2013 and can more or less hold it's own against modern CPUs. Android must support a plethora of ARM architecture implementations.BedfordTim - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
Android phones can also get by on half the RAM as well, but with more competition marketing kicks in.six_tymes - Friday, October 23, 2020 - link
"it rarely manages to catch Arm’s new CPU IP release cycle, and as we expected doesn’t take advantage of the newer A78 or X1 CPUs that we expect from upcoming Exynos and Snapdragon chipsets in a few months."darkich - Saturday, October 24, 2020 - link
For some perspective to those who still see PC processors as some epitome of high tech..This chip has almost 4 billion MORE transistors than AMD's newest most advanced mobile chip Ryzen 9 4900HS!!
And according to this data, it should reach over 2TFLOPS of GPU compute power..
Think about that..
Beaver M. - Saturday, October 24, 2020 - link
2?Wow. Thing is, a PC with a 3090 is close to 300. Even without tensor cores being utilized its still at over 35.
But you go ahead and build your PC out of a phone/tablet chip.
darkich - Sunday, October 25, 2020 - link
Wow...First - 3090 has 29TFLOPS, jot 300.
Second - it's die size iz 10x bigger than this entire SoC (that also has CPU, integrated 5G modem, ISP and AI components)
Third - It's TDP is HUNDRED TIMES bigger.
Overall, in terms of advancement and efficiency there is indeed no comparison.
But you go ahead..be impressed with your thirsty, loud 1000hp V12 7l engine while i admire this 1l supercharged hybrid wonder that by far beats sit in power per liter and barely spends any fuel.
s.yu - Sunday, October 25, 2020 - link
Not the same thing. There's no indication that Mali G78MP24 could linearly scale by 10x, or even by 2x, remember this is already the official max configuration, nobody knows how it would scale from here, but probably not very well.darkich - Monday, October 26, 2020 - link
I'm not saying it would scale linearly..of course it wouldn't.But the fact is, this is some astonishing efficiency.
Remember, we are talking an entire SoC with an 8 core CPU , 5G modem, AI and ISP to go along with a 2TFLOP GPU on a 70mm² of 3W silicon.
It's ridiculous.
dudedud - Monday, October 26, 2020 - link
More like up to 14W if this is correct: https://twitter.com/UniverseIce/status/13195835822...s.yu - Monday, October 26, 2020 - link
Yeah no way, you're citing a mid-low load power consumption to peak performance.darkich - Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - link
No..mobile SoC TDP refers to the typical and not the maximum load.It's the same for every other processor.
The latest "12W" AMD chips go over 35W in maximum load for example.
persondb - Sunday, October 25, 2020 - link
So...?It's also on a more advanced node.
When you are talking about transistors quantity/density, that is nodes and not the architecture(which is what people talk about when saying that PC cpus are more high tech, specially since they are tuned for speed).
Plus, 5nm is around 1.8 times the density of 7nm.
And by pure tflops, that should be around an AMD HD 6870?
Certainly impressive for an iGPU(though you should note that it should be around a Vega 11 iGPU), but not sure what is your point there, it's certainly not comparable to PC tech. We also have no idea how it performs vs PC iGPUs either, as tflops is generally theoretical and there are many factors that can affect a GPU performance, you can't really compare GPUs from totally different architetures and all and say one is better or worse due to tflop.
darkich - Sunday, October 25, 2020 - link
Pure FLOPS are indeed the best general indication of GPU power.Take Nintendo switch.
A pure ARM aechitecture with 200GFLOPS(90% less than this chip) in handheld mode.
persondb - Monday, October 26, 2020 - link
There is a lot more to GPU than just theoretical(aka peak) tflops and they aren't really a good indication of GPU performance as people would lead you to believe.Huawei choose to max out the number of cores that they could in their iGPU and this is also very much affected by the bigger die over competing chips like apple A14.
The Nintendo Switch uses a Nvidia GPU(Tegra SoC), and not an ARM GPU. Plus it's not like it was a super maxed design or anything. The Nintendo Switch had a launch price of $299.99, this is like comparing a midrange phone gpu to a flagship one. A three years old tech in fact to a soon-to-be released flagship.
Also keep in mind that Huawei likely made some pretty severe tradeoffs to get that big of a GPU, power consumption is very likely one of them.
And in the end just like many integrated GPU designs, it might just be limited because of it's sharing memory bandwidth with the CPU. Even if LPDDR5 helps over LPDDR4, in the end there is no miracle there. In fact, one reason why Intel and AMD don't really increase their GPU cores in their iGPUs, is because it will just be limited by bandwidth anyway.
I am not saying that the GPU isn't impressive or anything but that you are way overhyping it. Wait for the results before rushing to say that this equal to PC processors/parts.
Beaver M. - Saturday, October 24, 2020 - link
Huawei can put out as much awesome hardware as they like. Their Android implementation is still horrible, to put it mildly.Lots of issues with power saving measures, users getting locked out of features that are intended to work in the background, even checking email while the screen is off often doesnt work. Lots of problems with Bluetooth because of that too. Even their own whitelists dont work, not even with Google apps.
And then of course the massive amount of bloatware that cant be uninstalled, not to mention their crappy updates that not only happen far too rarely, but also often break things.
Myrandex - Sunday, October 25, 2020 - link
I think that you're charging figures are backwards, it looks like it supports 66W wired charging and 50W wireless charging?nikitapanday - Monday, November 9, 2020 - link
For best guest posting visit us: http://pubnichedata.comAgabs5 - Friday, November 13, 2020 - link
Wow...! Please admin is this phone in Nigeria yet and what;s the price in Nigeria'' Here's my contact at https://careersafrik.combairlangga - Thursday, November 26, 2020 - link
Their M.O is simple right? First they join the market and went straight dumping prices everywhere from low spec up to top tier devices, to kill their competitors. Once they all died and only few remaining, they went to that similar "normal prices" which the old competitors give for each tiers/classes, if not more.And we all, consumers, medias (like anandtech), cheers them for it. We defend their action as the most "beneficial" to us.
imagesday - Saturday, November 28, 2020 - link
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