You can find old 1600x1200, 4:3 screens. With 1.33 width to height ratio, they're even better than the 1.5 of Surface Pro. You could also find 16:10 displays in the domain of business displays (1920x1200 pixels).
As far as I can tell from Qualcomm's site, it's literally the same chip. So any gains will be from clock speed upgrades, and I'll be surprised if that's as much as 10%.
That's a steep ask for 1499. You get a lot of better performant x86 powered 2-in-1s on which you don't have to worry about software compatibility. This is still priced way too high.
That's the conclusion I came to as well. They appear to be playing the same game with these processors that they did with smartwatch CPUs, where they keep re-releasing the exact same slightly-out-of-date product with a new name.
$1500 for a convertible device based on an overclocked Snapdragon 855 is a joke.
My understanding is the SQ1 is still going to be in the base model with 8GB ram 128GB drive. I suspect the higher up models with more ram and storage are probably where the SQ2 comes in play. I could be mistaken, but that would explain the $500 better as you'd be getting more that just a new SoC for that price.
Check MS's site. Surface Pro X starts at 1k for 8GB/128GB. The next jump up is to 8/256 for 1.3k (yes, seriously ...), then the next one is 16/256 for 1.5k and finally 16/512 for 1.8k. SQ2 is available only on 16GB and costs the same as the current SQ1 version.
So, yes, pricing IS insane, but it isn't the CPU that's the problem here.
This competes with iPad Pro 12.9, and at the same starting price ($999) it is significantly thicker (5.9mm > 7.3mm) and heavier (641g > 773g). I wonder how the battery life and processor speed compare between the two.
not really, this should be compared to the 12.9 cellular, since it has LTE, which is more expensive. Also the keyboard is 1/3 of the price of the magic keyboard. I will not mention the difference between Windows (on Arm) and Ipados, because this will spark the usual fanboy claims from both sides (much more powerful ipad, thus much better buy, and better tablet OS, yes but you cannot do many basic desktop things with it, stuck with mobile apps, windows much better for work, etc.)
I actually prefer Windows, but I'm not sure what's the state of Windows on Arm. I don't want to deal with standard Windows applications not being supported.
So obviously it runs anything that's natively compiled for ARM runs at full speed. It also runs x86-32 software via partial emulation (the OS and underlying MS APIs are native). Coming soon, x86-64 emulation. So they'll be in good shape as far as compatibility goes. You do lose some performance for non-native software, but for most software it's good enough, and far better than "doesn't work".
Also, as the ARM version of the OS gains traction, more developers will compile for ARM.
This also has a built in stand which is incredibly useful. Based on my experiences witht he smaller iPad, I don't trust any of the hype around iPads performance or battery life. My daughter plays minecraft on my iPAd Pro and it is jittery, gets incredibly hot and the battery lasts around 3 hours.
The SKU that comes with the SQ2 SoC has 16gb RAM and 256gb SSD, which is the same price for the SQ1 version with the same amount of RAm and storage, it's just like an upgrade but only for the higher tier Surface Pro.
this is the same price as before, with 1.5x the price you get double the RAM and storage too, which has not been worth it so far, but might be when 64bit emulation arrives
I'm kind of glad this is a more modest refresh instead of a major upgrade after just one year.... so my Pro X won't feel that out of date already. I'm excited about the announcement of the x64 emulation! I know that's has been a major roadblock for a lot of people who otherwise would have been interested otherwise.
It's not a major new version - just a revision of the existing SoC, which was itself based on the Snapdragon 855. So it's not much cop when compared with the A12X, and markedly slower than A14.
What an overpriced piece of garbage! If you want a tablet buy an Apple/Android tablet, if you want a Windows PC buy an x86 ultrabook/laptop/desktop! Do not throw away your money by buying this!!
Windows on ARM just does not make sense let alone at this laughable price point! If it was 30% of the price of the cheapest x86 laptops, it might be of some value but otherwise … it's pure garbage
I tried porting some of my old applications to Windows-arm64 and the developer support is pretty bad. Some examples: - Visual Studio does not have an aarch64 version. So you have to either use it in emulation (which is really slow) or over the network, requiring two machines. - Visual Studio Code does have aarch64, but many plugins do not. For example, the C/C++ plugin. - Microsoft's own CppUnitTestFramework is not available on Windows-arm, so can't run unit tests to test consistent behavior. - On the Java side, OpenJDK on Windows-arm64 is still in beta. But as IntelliJ IDEA brings its own (x64 only) JDK, you can't use that at all. - Delphi doesn't exist for Windows-arm at all, as far as I can tell. Lots of legacy code written in it, with no way to port it.
Just a few examples. In my opinion, those things should be high priority for MS (especially bringing Visual Studio to arm), so that third party developers who care aren't held back by the tools :-)
It has definitely been a difficult and hard journey for Microsoft to get this far. They dumped OG edge because they wanted to brute force market share but then lost their arm compatible browser for a little while. Certainly mixed messaging.
I agree it would be awesome for visual studio to run natively on arm but considering the breadth of software development it supports it will be much harder than it was for Apple to recompile Xcode.
I think it’s worth it through and they seem to have slightly more momentum than windows rt. Firefox supporting arm 64 I think is pretty big.
Too expensive for what is offered. Especially if the starting price for the SQ2 only include 128 GB of storage and 8 GB of RAM. This competes head-on with the iPad Pro, and not sure it'll come out ahead. That's also because they skimped on battery - 15h use sounds good, but isn't for an Ultra-portable device with the main selling point of having great battery life. I would gladly carry another 100 g or so around for the extra Wh, but then, I already find it overpriced.
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Drazick - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
Could we have the 3:2 ratio replicated in stand alone screens?It is the perfect ration.
Give us 34" 3000 x 2000 screens!
igor velky - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
Just buy 32" Apple Pro Display.Or some variant of ultrawide monitor and you will get 2*3:2 monitor in one chassis.
Calin - Friday, October 2, 2020 - link
You can find old 1600x1200, 4:3 screens. With 1.33 width to height ratio, they're even better than the 1.5 of Surface Pro.You could also find 16:10 displays in the domain of business displays (1920x1200 pixels).
Revv233 - Monday, October 5, 2020 - link
Hell yeah. Widescreen is for tv, not PC!Teckk - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
Looks good and has 2 ports, not too bad.But ... 500 bucks extra for a processor upgrade? Is it THAT good? Hopefully you folks get to test this one.
PixyMisa - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
As far as I can tell from Qualcomm's site, it's literally the same chip. So any gains will be from clock speed upgrades, and I'll be surprised if that's as much as 10%.Teckk - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
That's a steep ask for 1499. You get a lot of better performant x86 powered 2-in-1s on which you don't have to worry about software compatibility. This is still priced way too high.Spunjji - Friday, October 2, 2020 - link
That's the conclusion I came to as well. They appear to be playing the same game with these processors that they did with smartwatch CPUs, where they keep re-releasing the exact same slightly-out-of-date product with a new name.$1500 for a convertible device based on an overclocked Snapdragon 855 is a joke.
domboy - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
My understanding is the SQ1 is still going to be in the base model with 8GB ram 128GB drive. I suspect the higher up models with more ram and storage are probably where the SQ2 comes in play. I could be mistaken, but that would explain the $500 better as you'd be getting more that just a new SoC for that price.Zizy - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
Check MS's site. Surface Pro X starts at 1k for 8GB/128GB. The next jump up is to 8/256 for 1.3k (yes, seriously ...), then the next one is 16/256 for 1.5k and finally 16/512 for 1.8k. SQ2 is available only on 16GB and costs the same as the current SQ1 version.So, yes, pricing IS insane, but it isn't the CPU that's the problem here.
s.yu - Friday, October 2, 2020 - link
I can't remember a piece of MS hardware that's not overpriced. It's MS that's the problem here.p1esk - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
This competes with iPad Pro 12.9, and at the same starting price ($999) it is significantly thicker (5.9mm > 7.3mm) and heavier (641g > 773g). I wonder how the battery life and processor speed compare between the two.digiguy - Friday, October 2, 2020 - link
not really, this should be compared to the 12.9 cellular, since it has LTE, which is more expensive. Also the keyboard is 1/3 of the price of the magic keyboard. I will not mention the difference between Windows (on Arm) and Ipados, because this will spark the usual fanboy claims from both sides (much more powerful ipad, thus much better buy, and better tablet OS, yes but you cannot do many basic desktop things with it, stuck with mobile apps, windows much better for work, etc.)Spunjji - Friday, October 2, 2020 - link
Bang on the money, there. Despite the increasing similarities, in the end they're still different tools for different tasks.p1esk - Friday, October 2, 2020 - link
I actually prefer Windows, but I'm not sure what's the state of Windows on Arm. I don't want to deal with standard Windows applications not being supported.Alexvrb - Saturday, October 3, 2020 - link
So obviously it runs anything that's natively compiled for ARM runs at full speed. It also runs x86-32 software via partial emulation (the OS and underlying MS APIs are native). Coming soon, x86-64 emulation. So they'll be in good shape as far as compatibility goes. You do lose some performance for non-native software, but for most software it's good enough, and far better than "doesn't work".Also, as the ARM version of the OS gains traction, more developers will compile for ARM.
Speedfriend - Friday, October 2, 2020 - link
This also has a built in stand which is incredibly useful. Based on my experiences witht he smaller iPad, I don't trust any of the hype around iPads performance or battery life. My daughter plays minecraft on my iPAd Pro and it is jittery, gets incredibly hot and the battery lasts around 3 hours.wenart - Saturday, October 3, 2020 - link
The SKU that comes with the SQ2 SoC has 16gb RAM and 256gb SSD, which is the same price for the SQ1 version with the same amount of RAm and storage, it's just like an upgrade but only for the higher tier Surface Pro.zamroni - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
$1499 is ridiculous price.It will be only reviewers who will buy this tablet.
igor velky - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
Yeah this small, but welcome performance difference is absolutely not worth 1,5X more.digiguy - Friday, October 2, 2020 - link
this is the same price as before, with 1.5x the price you get double the RAM and storage too, which has not been worth it so far, but might be when 64bit emulation arrivesdanthekilla - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
No it will be mainly businesses. And we will get the higher end one.ikjadoon - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
Very, very, very few businesses will transition to Arm client devices in any notable capacity with this device. Silicon Valley != the business world."Drop of water in the ocean" comes to mind...
Meteor2 - Monday, October 5, 2020 - link
Got to start somewheredomboy - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
I'm kind of glad this is a more modest refresh instead of a major upgrade after just one year.... so my Pro X won't feel that out of date already. I'm excited about the announcement of the x64 emulation! I know that's has been a major roadblock for a lot of people who otherwise would have been interested otherwise.stanleyipkiss - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
Price concerns aside (damn! way too much), I like the fact that we are getting COLORS! I am sick of black/white/gray tech.s.yu - Friday, October 2, 2020 - link
lol? What was once silver is now "platinum".GC2:CS - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
Qualcomm SQ2 ? Why there has to be a new name for every SoC name ? Completely confused.How does it compare to mobile intel chips or Apple A12X or A14 ?
GC2:CS - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
every SoC line... i mean qualcomm naming schemes. Whatever edit is not there.Spunjji - Friday, October 2, 2020 - link
It's not a major new version - just a revision of the existing SoC, which was itself based on the Snapdragon 855. So it's not much cop when compared with the A12X, and markedly slower than A14.factual - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
What an overpriced piece of garbage! If you want a tablet buy an Apple/Android tablet, if you want a Windows PC buy an x86 ultrabook/laptop/desktop! Do not throw away your money by buying this!!Meteor2 - Monday, October 5, 2020 - link
Battery life on this is far better than any x86 in the same form-factor.factual - Tuesday, October 6, 2020 - link
No, in fact it has worst battery life than most modern x86 laptops:https://www.pcworld.com/article/3453670/microsoft-...
Windows on ARM just does not make sense let alone at this laughable price point! If it was 30% of the price of the cheapest x86 laptops, it might be of some value but otherwise … it's pure garbage
dan82 - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
I tried porting some of my old applications to Windows-arm64 and the developer support is pretty bad. Some examples:- Visual Studio does not have an aarch64 version. So you have to either use it in emulation (which is really slow) or over the network, requiring two machines.
- Visual Studio Code does have aarch64, but many plugins do not. For example, the C/C++ plugin.
- Microsoft's own CppUnitTestFramework is not available on Windows-arm, so can't run unit tests to test consistent behavior.
- On the Java side, OpenJDK on Windows-arm64 is still in beta. But as IntelliJ IDEA brings its own (x64 only) JDK, you can't use that at all.
- Delphi doesn't exist for Windows-arm at all, as far as I can tell. Lots of legacy code written in it, with no way to port it.
Just a few examples. In my opinion, those things should be high priority for MS (especially bringing Visual Studio to arm), so that third party developers who care aren't held back by the tools :-)
domboy - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
That's awesome to hear OpenJDK for ARM64 is being developed! For awhile I couldn't find anything on it, and gave up looking...Zeratul56 - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
It has definitely been a difficult and hard journey for Microsoft to get this far. They dumped OG edge because they wanted to brute force market share but then lost their arm compatible browser for a little while. Certainly mixed messaging.I agree it would be awesome for visual studio to run natively on arm but considering the breadth of software development it supports it will be much harder than it was for Apple to recompile Xcode.
I think it’s worth it through and they seem to have slightly more momentum than windows rt. Firefox supporting arm 64 I think is pretty big.
digiguy - Friday, October 2, 2020 - link
They announced Visual studio is coming natively to arm very shortlyIthaqua - Thursday, October 1, 2020 - link
Micorosft SQ1 Small error here.eastcoast_pete - Friday, October 2, 2020 - link
Too expensive for what is offered. Especially if the starting price for the SQ2 only include 128 GB of storage and 8 GB of RAM. This competes head-on with the iPad Pro, and not sure it'll come out ahead. That's also because they skimped on battery - 15h use sounds good, but isn't for an Ultra-portable device with the main selling point of having great battery life. I would gladly carry another 100 g or so around for the extra Wh, but then, I already find it overpriced.Meteor2 - Monday, October 5, 2020 - link
It comes out ahead for anyone who wants a Windows environment.