Boy these guys are going like gangbusters right now. I sincerely hope that RDNA2 puts AMD back on the map for top-tier GPU performance again. We'll see....
Highly doubtful. Nvidia will not only take the performance crown again, I think they will be ahead on ray tracing as well because it's their second-gen. And not to mention DLSS is a game-changer. It's hard for me to imagine buying an AMD GPU over an Nvidia one.
RIS is sharpening filter Nvidia also has something similar in the control panel this is nothing new or exiting just as you said simple sharpening filter keep saying AI mumbo jumbo but since it has been updated on the 2.0 to use the tensor core it does AI miracles in terms of creating details that does not exist in the lower res image also it does not suffer from many issues that other reconstruct methods suffer from. AMD has not emphasize on developing AI capabilities either hardware or software and it would hit them hard.
Nvidia will be a little ahead on ray tracing, but both implementations will be fine. Nvidia may not take the performance crown this time, especially if they are using Samsung 8nm.
I have this said this before - Raytracing will not go mainstream till the developers build their games from ground-up to support it. And this will happen only a couple of years into the new console generation with cross-gen compatibility no longer being a key factor. Most games nowadays are developed console-first. I expect the GPU generation after upcoming generation to be the first mainstream Ray-tracing cards. Currently they are just an expensive add-on with limited benefits in games that support ray-tracing.
Right. Both consoles will be using AMD's implementation of ray tracing. I have a hard time believing they won't be able to leverage that into a performance advantage.
I don't think AMD needs to work on their architecture or gimmicky features like ray tracing (which isn't realistic at the moment because GPU's need to be twice as fast as they currently are to be playable in 4k)
AMD needs to work on their drivers. Now that DirectX has native raytracing integration AMD should focus on completely implementing DirectX 12 Ultimate, which I suspect is going to be a requirement of them for the XBOX contract.
I play a lot of games at 4k with my AMD 50th Ann 5700XT, on my 10-bit DP1.4 panel with HDR support right now. No problem. (It's a myth that you have to play a game at 100fps or up to enjoy it.)
You can probably do 4K @ 120 with both of the upcoming flagships without DLSS, depending on the game or the settings. Maybe DLSS will let gamers leapfrog into 8K on expensive TVs?
I'm confused, in your first sentence you say ray-tracing is gimmicky and unrealistic, but in the second sentence you want them to fully implement DirectX 12 Ultimate, including specifically ray-tracing?
I believe your right AMD has got lots of advanced knowledge and developers on board with the Console deals the PS5 demo was incredible if that was in fact possible in real time as they said then Nvidia is going to be in trouble, current rumours are that it will be a 40-50% uplift on the 2080ti just think about that I have a 2080ti and cannot imagine a solution that is 40% quicker thats just insane levels of work, whilst the Nvidia 3080s are said to be fast but major power hogs, either way cant wait its time AMD came back to the top in GPUs as well
Do you mean 400 series or 500 series Fermi? Because if Ampere is anything like either, it's more likely to be like the 500 series - a brute, to be sure, but an unquestionably fast one.
Nobody expected AMD to trounce Intel, either...;) I think it's very likely, actually. This AMD is intensely competitive. DLSS is something I'd likely not be interested in, actually. It's difficult for me to imagine ever spending ~$1200+ on a GPU!
"And not to mention DLSS is a game-changer." Is it really, though? I know DLSS 2 is a significant improvement on the worthless mess of the first generation, but I'm still not convinced it's significantly better in practice than up-scaling with a sharpen filter.
In agreement about Nvidia retaining the performance crown, though. The only reason they might not is if they've somehow managed to do something fundamentally wrong with the architecture and/or they struggle with the shift to a new process. Neither of those seem particularly likely, though.
I wouldn't be so sure of them having the performance crown. The reports of the massive power draws of their next-gen GPUs and trying to use TSMC again after discarding them are signs of trying to squeeze performance as much as possible in a limited timeframe, which is usually what you do when you know you have to compete in a process/arch disvantage
I'll stick with my Freesync and AMD's Lisa Su not being a yapping wanker like Jensen Huang seems to be. Will I suffer some lower performance? Probably. RDNA2 will maybe change things, but until then I'll feel better about myself, and my wallet will be a little heavier bc I haven't spent silly money to have 20% more performance for 100% more dollars.
Who cares about the performance crown? The vast majority of users and potential buyers care only about desktop GPUs in the 200-400$ price range and medium-to-high end mobile GPUs. The best FPS per $ proposition is where they should invest in and focus their attention. Yeah, the next generation TITAN would be probably 20-30% faster than the best option from AMD, but if it cost 200% more, it would be clearly out of the shopping cart of the most potential buyers. The performace crown is just for prestige and marketing. This segmen is a small (yet profitable) nitch.
Even if they can't compete performance wise they always know how to place their product to be good value for money. Also, revenue doesn't come from selling in the high-end.
I'm very interested in seeing what their CDNA products are. AMD should be delivering GPUs for the 1.5 exaflop Frontier next year. They need something much better than current Radeon Instincts to get anywhere near the promised performance and energy efficiency.
My bet is on them having some healthy competition at the realistic high-end, but nothing to touch Nvidia's now-traditional Tier 0 Halo GPU - i.e. the 3090/3080Ti/Titan/whatever it's called this time.
AMD hasn't' been targeting the highest end card for the last few years because it's very low volume, they've been targeting the middle of the road performance where volumes are much higher (and where they can use the same tech in consoles). Maybe with the new CEO this will change but she's been mostly focusing on getting their CPU's back in the game, particularity server where margins are very high. AMD also doesn't have an R&D budget sufficient enough to compete effectively with both Intel and nvidia. The AMD CEO has boosted R&D in both departments but R&D still lags nvidia significantly. When nvidia can throw twice as many people at R&D it's going to be hard for AMD to optimize as heavily.
Personally I don't expect AMD will go after the high end any time soon. They will continue to go after the bigger volumes in the middle which allows reusing the same IP in their integrated and console solutions.
Besides nvidia will never let them take the high end for long, nvidia will lose money on high end sales if necessary to prevent it.
It should be. I imagine many businesses will be kicking the tires after Intel's admission, to say nothing of Xbox and PS5. Certainly OEM wins will pick up, too. Intel can switch to TSMC, but only for their top end products due to volume concerns, so by default, there will be a lot of defectors just based on availability.
Intel is never going to use TSMC. They made that statement to try to blow off wall street concern. They've got far too much invested in their own FAB's to use someone elses. What's more like to occur from that annoncement is licensing TSMC's fab tech to use in their fabs.
"And AMD is confirming that RDNA2 will eventually be a “full refresh” of the company’s GPU product stacks" - it is required, as Navi without ray tracing sells poorly. AMD must deliver strong RT, on par with NV Ampere, otherwise sales won't improve
Does anyone actually use RT other than as a tech demo or as a quick test to see how pretty it looks, before turning it off because it's not fast enough yet?
@Papaspud and who makes the consoles Chips so yes its coming and AMD will have a serious contender for the crown I think, I reckon Nvidia may have fallen into the Intel trap and done too little too late whilst AMD have pushed for the power envelope of a console and come up with a damn good CPU and GPU to boot, either way we all win
God damn it, you wishful AMD fans are quite literally annoying. For how many generations, now, has AMD “cooked” a “serious” nvidia contender? And how many times it turned out to be nothing more than wishful thinking? “Intel trap” my ass, Nvidia’s generational performance gains were quite big while AMD had only incomplete (hardware or software) products to account for?
Early days of anti-aliasing (AA) in 2011??? By 2011 AA was a good decade old. Back in 2003 the Radeon 9800 Pro was able to get good performance at 1024x768 resolution with AA. https://www.anandtech.com/show/1077
I'm pretty convinced that anybody who bought a 2070, 2070 Super or 2080 is going to be pissed when games really start using RT properly.
I'm not convinced that anybody who bought a 2060 was ever really expecting to use it outside of that Quake 2 demo... I still wonder why they bothered forcing it that far down the line.
Right now, I suspect most people using it are just experimenting with the technology and preparing it to be integrated into their engines, and the current implementations are more previews than anything. However as the hardware matures I expect to see it become more and more common.
Outside of gaming, its already used to accelerate non-realtime rendering (in Blender's Cycles renderer, for instance).
Hardware accelerated raytracing is extremely useful, but like NVENC/VCE and other fixed-function features, it takes time to propagate. Graphics programming is hard.
no. techilliterate dot com sites are pushing it due to novidia's guideline. this marketed ray tracing has nothing to do with pure ray tracing implementations. you need around the petaflop mark in order to render a complex scene with pure ray tracing. we didn't get there with single gpus nor we found a ground breaking algorithm to avoid all those calculations. rtx and the current ray tracing for the kasses implementations are marketing scums. they will die off eventually like vr, ar, 3d gaming glasses, etc.
VR, AR, 3D gaming all suffered from the following things that makes the difficult and fail in the market: Dedicated devices the user had to buy. Designing the user experience utilizing those technologies was a problem. Avoiding undesirable physiological reactions of the users (nausea, etc...) was a problem.
Granted, RT on GPUs that are sold today is not powerful yet to be really useful for software producers nor users. Whether RT on GPUs will prosper or die will just depends on how powerful the feature can/will become.
RT on GPUs does not require you to buy separate hardware to use it (it is just a feature of your otherwise bog-standard GPU).
It does not require software developers/designers to design based on a different UX - software can still be interacted in the same way regardless of RT is used or not.
And, RT on GPUs won't make the users puke. With the exception of enthusiast tech website commenter primadonnas, of course ;-P
VR's still growing, actually. Not explosively like some people'd assumed, but fast enough that manufacturing capacity continues to be the limiting factor. Both Valve and Facebook are selling headsets faster than they can make them.
"as Navi without ray tracing sells poorly" Yeah, mere 30-40% of the GPU cards sold now are AMD, which means it is "selling poorly", since gamers are so concerned about that wonderful feature, that 1% of games support, that is capable of bringing 2080Ti framerate to a point you need to run it at 1080p.
I think its been three times. People keep asking in disbelief. Lisa Su is not letting up just because Intel are falling behind. Speaking of if Intel didn't let up AMD wouldn't be here in the first place. Whenever the relentless pursuit of making the best product you can gets replaced with making the most profit you will be surpassed by your competitors.
I think its more like that the plans stand on contrast to recent releases. Releasing the XT line just now with plans to release Zen3 in a few months only makes the XT launch look weird. So one might rightfully wonder if Zen3 comes late.
The XT line up is there so when Zen 3 releases the baseline price will be where the X launch prices were. It means when you compare the 3900XT to the 4900X at a $499 retail price you will see a bigger perf/$ increase than if you compared it to the $420ish retail price for the 3900X.
I'm guessing that (although they don't want to say it exactly) the primary communication message they are trying to get out is "We are not that other company, don't mix us up with them. We don't promise, delay, promise, delay, till items get shipped 2+ years after they were announced".
For the mass public it's "Intel, AMD, what's the difference? They're both make computer chips? And I heard that there's apparently some major screwup that was made? I guess by AMD because I've only ever heard good things about Intel" THAT is what they are trying to prevent with these protestations on every occasion that Zen3 will come in on time and meeting specs.
Because of bullshit rumors all over the place saying Zen 3 is off the track and AMD wants it to get it on 5nm to compete against Intel RKL or some bs drama and that's why XT refresh and all sort of trash news.
Yes, this, Intel has been getting by with a lot of games, smoke, mirrors and rumors for 5 years. AMD has to keep beating the drum, because of all the money on the Intel side.
It's not just them - plenty of other sites (Notebookcheck is one I'm familiar with) like to pick up the rumours and launder them further, to the point that people can point to a few articles as "evidence".
Client or Consumer? Which would be the Vermeer/Ryzen 3?
I have plenty of time and already know Im getting the ASRockRack uAtx X570. Have the Chassis (1U) just wish AMD would define which Zen 3 will come first.
Damn tired of having to read everything and deciding which I prefer was accurate.
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extide - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
Boy these guys are going like gangbusters right now. I sincerely hope that RDNA2 puts AMD back on the map for top-tier GPU performance again. We'll see....senttoschool - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Highly doubtful. Nvidia will not only take the performance crown again, I think they will be ahead on ray tracing as well because it's their second-gen. And not to mention DLSS is a game-changer. It's hard for me to imagine buying an AMD GPU over an Nvidia one.Pap1er - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
If AMD wants to compete in high-end market, I believe they are cooking something similar to DLSS under the hood :)Cellar Door - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
You "believe" based on what evidence - exactly, there is none.Fulljack - Friday, July 31, 2020 - link
well, AMD has RIS. it's a much simpler algorithm stuffs without the AI mumbo jumbo but still did better than DLSS, at least before version 2.0Eliadbu - Tuesday, August 4, 2020 - link
RIS is sharpening filter Nvidia also has something similar in the control panelthis is nothing new or exiting just as you said simple sharpening filter
keep saying AI mumbo jumbo but since it has been updated on the 2.0 to use the tensor core
it does AI miracles in terms of creating details that does not exist in the lower res image also it does not suffer from many issues that other reconstruct methods suffer from. AMD has not emphasize on developing AI capabilities either hardware or software and it would hit them hard.
nandnandnand - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Nvidia will be a little ahead on ray tracing, but both implementations will be fine. Nvidia may not take the performance crown this time, especially if they are using Samsung 8nm.Sherlock - Thursday, July 30, 2020 - link
I have this said this before - Raytracing will not go mainstream till the developers build their games from ground-up to support it. And this will happen only a couple of years into the new console generation with cross-gen compatibility no longer being a key factor. Most games nowadays are developed console-first. I expect the GPU generation after upcoming generation to be the first mainstream Ray-tracing cards. Currently they are just an expensive add-on with limited benefits in games that support ray-tracing.rahvin - Thursday, July 30, 2020 - link
Next Xbox an playstation both include ray tracing support. They are going to be out very soon and afterwards all the Triple A games will be using it.Daeros - Tuesday, August 4, 2020 - link
Right. Both consoles will be using AMD's implementation of ray tracing. I have a hard time believing they won't be able to leverage that into a performance advantage.Samus - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
I don't think AMD needs to work on their architecture or gimmicky features like ray tracing (which isn't realistic at the moment because GPU's need to be twice as fast as they currently are to be playable in 4k)AMD needs to work on their drivers. Now that DirectX has native raytracing integration AMD should focus on completely implementing DirectX 12 Ultimate, which I suspect is going to be a requirement of them for the XBOX contract.
fallaha56 - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
agree with all of the aboveDLSS-type filtering is required to make 4k playable but that's coming this gen for both teams
WaltC - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
I play a lot of games at 4k with my AMD 50th Ann 5700XT, on my 10-bit DP1.4 panel with HDR support right now. No problem. (It's a myth that you have to play a game at 100fps or up to enjoy it.)nandnandnand - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
You can probably do 4K @ 120 with both of the upcoming flagships without DLSS, depending on the game or the settings. Maybe DLSS will let gamers leapfrog into 8K on expensive TVs?nevcairiel - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
I'm confused, in your first sentence you say ray-tracing is gimmicky and unrealistic, but in the second sentence you want them to fully implement DirectX 12 Ultimate, including specifically ray-tracing?So which one is it?
webdoctors - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Raytracing is not gimicky. Its physics and been around for 50 years.AMD can easily compete with just lower margins, it looks like they're aiming for 30% rather than 60% margins.
alufan - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
I believe your right AMD has got lots of advanced knowledge and developers on board with the Console deals the PS5 demo was incredible if that was in fact possible in real time as they said then Nvidia is going to be in trouble, current rumours are that it will be a 40-50% uplift on the 2080ti just think about that I have a 2080ti and cannot imagine a solution that is 40% quicker thats just insane levels of work, whilst the Nvidia 3080s are said to be fast but major power hogs, either way cant wait its time AMD came back to the top in GPUs as wellfallaha56 - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
@senttoschool not a lot of evidence nVidia will take the crown -or if they do it will be at 350Wit's the Fermi hairdryer all over again
blame Jensen for being nasty to TSMC and not gettng much if any 7nm supply
DigitalFreak - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Yeah.... noSpunjji - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Do you mean 400 series or 500 series Fermi? Because if Ampere is anything like either, it's more likely to be like the 500 series - a brute, to be sure, but an unquestionably fast one.WaltC - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Nobody expected AMD to trounce Intel, either...;) I think it's very likely, actually. This AMD is intensely competitive. DLSS is something I'd likely not be interested in, actually. It's difficult for me to imagine ever spending ~$1200+ on a GPU!nandnandnand - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Nvidia will be able to push DLSS more with the Ampere lineup.Spunjji - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
"And not to mention DLSS is a game-changer."Is it really, though? I know DLSS 2 is a significant improvement on the worthless mess of the first generation, but I'm still not convinced it's significantly better in practice than up-scaling with a sharpen filter.
In agreement about Nvidia retaining the performance crown, though. The only reason they might not is if they've somehow managed to do something fundamentally wrong with the architecture and/or they struggle with the shift to a new process. Neither of those seem particularly likely, though.
nandnandnand - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
They will update it to DLSS 3.0 and make it work with most games.allanxp4 - Thursday, July 30, 2020 - link
I wouldn't be so sure of them having the performance crown.The reports of the massive power draws of their next-gen GPUs and trying to use TSMC again after discarding them are signs of trying to squeeze performance as much as possible in a limited timeframe, which is usually what you do when you know you have to compete in a process/arch disvantage
Richlet - Saturday, August 1, 2020 - link
I'll stick with my Freesync and AMD's Lisa Su not being a yapping wanker like Jensen Huang seems to be. Will I suffer some lower performance? Probably. RDNA2 will maybe change things, but until then I'll feel better about myself, and my wallet will be a little heavier bc I haven't spent silly money to have 20% more performance for 100% more dollars.Daeros - Tuesday, August 4, 2020 - link
DLSS? You mean playing at lower resolutions with turbo-AA on? No thanks, I'll pass.nikaru - Wednesday, August 5, 2020 - link
Who cares about the performance crown? The vast majority of users and potential buyers care only about desktop GPUs in the 200-400$ price range and medium-to-high end mobile GPUs. The best FPS per $ proposition is where they should invest in and focus their attention. Yeah, the next generation TITAN would be probably 20-30% faster than the best option from AMD, but if it cost 200% more, it would be clearly out of the shopping cart of the most potential buyers. The performace crown is just for prestige and marketing. This segmen is a small (yet profitable) nitch.brunis.dk - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Even if they can't compete performance wise they always know how to place their product to be good value for money. Also, revenue doesn't come from selling in the high-end.nft76 - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
I'm very interested in seeing what their CDNA products are. AMD should be delivering GPUs for the 1.5 exaflop Frontier next year. They need something much better than current Radeon Instincts to get anywhere near the promised performance and energy efficiency.YB1064 - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
My last foray into AMD land was the HD5850. I used to switch fairly regularly between ATI and NV back in the day...hope those days return!Spunjji - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Mighty good card, that.Spunjji - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
My bet is on them having some healthy competition at the realistic high-end, but nothing to touch Nvidia's now-traditional Tier 0 Halo GPU - i.e. the 3090/3080Ti/Titan/whatever it's called this time.rahvin - Thursday, July 30, 2020 - link
AMD hasn't' been targeting the highest end card for the last few years because it's very low volume, they've been targeting the middle of the road performance where volumes are much higher (and where they can use the same tech in consoles). Maybe with the new CEO this will change but she's been mostly focusing on getting their CPU's back in the game, particularity server where margins are very high. AMD also doesn't have an R&D budget sufficient enough to compete effectively with both Intel and nvidia. The AMD CEO has boosted R&D in both departments but R&D still lags nvidia significantly. When nvidia can throw twice as many people at R&D it's going to be hard for AMD to optimize as heavily.Personally I don't expect AMD will go after the high end any time soon. They will continue to go after the bigger volumes in the middle which allows reusing the same IP in their integrated and console solutions.
Besides nvidia will never let them take the high end for long, nvidia will lose money on high end sales if necessary to prevent it.
ksec - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
They need to work on their volume and sales projection more. I hope this cycle of CPU, GPU, GPGU refresh they will be much better prepared.FreckledTrout - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
Volume will come naturally just give it time. I have a feeling 2021 is going to be a huge year for AMD.nico_mach - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
It should be. I imagine many businesses will be kicking the tires after Intel's admission, to say nothing of Xbox and PS5. Certainly OEM wins will pick up, too. Intel can switch to TSMC, but only for their top end products due to volume concerns, so by default, there will be a lot of defectors just based on availability.rahvin - Thursday, July 30, 2020 - link
Intel is never going to use TSMC. They made that statement to try to blow off wall street concern. They've got far too much invested in their own FAB's to use someone elses. What's more like to occur from that annoncement is licensing TSMC's fab tech to use in their fabs.TristanSDX - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
"And AMD is confirming that RDNA2 will eventually be a “full refresh” of the company’s GPU product stacks" - it is required, as Navi without ray tracing sells poorly. AMD must deliver strong RT, on par with NV Ampere, otherwise sales won't improveGigaplex - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
Does anyone actually use RT other than as a tech demo or as a quick test to see how pretty it looks, before turning it off because it's not fast enough yet?Papaspud - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
It is coming... especially since the consoles will use it.medi05 - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
When it comes, it is highly unlikely to run acceptable on the older GPUs.Irata - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
And the consoles' APU are both made by.....alufan - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
@Papaspud and who makes the consoles Chips so yes its coming and AMD will have a serious contender for the crown I think, I reckon Nvidia may have fallen into the Intel trap and done too little too late whilst AMD have pushed for the power envelope of a console and come up with a damn good CPU and GPU to boot, either way we all winliquid_c - Thursday, July 30, 2020 - link
God damn it, you wishful AMD fans are quite literally annoying. For how many generations, now, has AMD “cooked” a “serious” nvidia contender? And how many times it turned out to be nothing more than wishful thinking? “Intel trap” my ass, Nvidia’s generational performance gains were quite big while AMD had only incomplete (hardware or software) products to account for?rpg1966 - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
It's hard to believe that RT is a factor for anything more than a tiny fraction of buyers, for the time being.Irata - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Imho, once the performance hit is too low to really notice, RT should take of as it does look nice.In the early days of anti-aliasing (i.e. around 2011), using it also incurred a noticeable performance hit - is anyone even thinking about this now ?
In any case, I would bet that first gen RT adopters (except for maybe on a 2080 Ti) may get the short end of the stick once RT sees widespread use.
schujj07 - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Early days of anti-aliasing (AA) in 2011??? By 2011 AA was a good decade old. Back in 2003 the Radeon 9800 Pro was able to get good performance at 1024x768 resolution with AA. https://www.anandtech.com/show/1077Icehawk - Saturday, August 1, 2020 - link
Right and I was on a 16x12 monitor by then and I think Geforce 2? AA wasn’t happeningSpunjji - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
I'm pretty convinced that anybody who bought a 2070, 2070 Super or 2080 is going to be pissed when games really start using RT properly.I'm not convinced that anybody who bought a 2060 was ever really expecting to use it outside of that Quake 2 demo... I still wonder why they bothered forcing it that far down the line.
inighthawki - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
Right now, I suspect most people using it are just experimenting with the technology and preparing it to be integrated into their engines, and the current implementations are more previews than anything. However as the hardware matures I expect to see it become more and more common.brucethemoose - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
Outside of gaming, its already used to accelerate non-realtime rendering (in Blender's Cycles renderer, for instance).Hardware accelerated raytracing is extremely useful, but like NVENC/VCE and other fixed-function features, it takes time to propagate. Graphics programming is hard.
TBH I think the tensor cores are a bigger deal.
Yorgos - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
no.techilliterate dot com sites are pushing it due to novidia's guideline.
this marketed ray tracing has nothing to do with pure ray tracing implementations.
you need around the petaflop mark in order to render a complex scene with pure ray tracing.
we didn't get there with single gpus nor we found a ground breaking algorithm to avoid all those calculations.
rtx and the current ray tracing for the kasses implementations are marketing scums. they will die off eventually like vr, ar, 3d gaming glasses, etc.
nandnandnand - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Pure ray tracing is not needed.Both Big Navi and Ampere should have acceptable real-time denoised ray tracing performance.
MrVibrato - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
VR, AR, 3D gaming all suffered from the following things that makes the difficult and fail in the market: Dedicated devices the user had to buy. Designing the user experience utilizing those technologies was a problem. Avoiding undesirable physiological reactions of the users (nausea, etc...) was a problem.Granted, RT on GPUs that are sold today is not powerful yet to be really useful for software producers nor users. Whether RT on GPUs will prosper or die will just depends on how powerful the feature can/will become.
RT on GPUs does not require you to buy separate hardware to use it (it is just a feature of your otherwise bog-standard GPU).
It does not require software developers/designers to design based on a different UX - software can still be interacted in the same way regardless of RT is used or not.
And, RT on GPUs won't make the users puke. With the exception of enthusiast tech website commenter primadonnas, of course ;-P
Lord of the Bored - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
VR's still growing, actually. Not explosively like some people'd assumed, but fast enough that manufacturing capacity continues to be the limiting factor. Both Valve and Facebook are selling headsets faster than they can make them.nandnandnand - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Turing is a ray tracing beta test. It will actually get used with Ampere, Big Navi, and consoles.Spunjji - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Early Access: GPU Hardware EditionThey even mimicked the way the original buyers won't get the final product without paying extra 😆
medi05 - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
"as Navi without ray tracing sells poorly"Yeah, mere 30-40% of the GPU cards sold now are AMD, which means it is "selling poorly", since gamers are so concerned about that wonderful feature, that 1% of games support, that is capable of bringing 2080Ti framerate to a point you need to run it at 1080p.
brunis.dk - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Riiight, everyone wants to play Raytraced Minecraft.. it's like the market for triple GPU's for Sc2 and WoW .. 0,001%dotjaz - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
That's not really a limiting factor. AMD doesn't currently have anything that can run RT even if they had RT capabilities.sorten - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
I feel like AMD has reiterated their Zen 3 plans like 5 times in the past month. Or maybe I just visit too many tech blogs.FreckledTrout - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
I think its been three times. People keep asking in disbelief. Lisa Su is not letting up just because Intel are falling behind. Speaking of if Intel didn't let up AMD wouldn't be here in the first place. Whenever the relentless pursuit of making the best product you can gets replaced with making the most profit you will be surpassed by your competitors.nevcairiel - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
I think its more like that the plans stand on contrast to recent releases. Releasing the XT line just now with plans to release Zen3 in a few months only makes the XT launch look weird. So one might rightfully wonder if Zen3 comes late.Timorous - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
The XT line up is there so when Zen 3 releases the baseline price will be where the X launch prices were. It means when you compare the 3900XT to the 4900X at a $499 retail price you will see a bigger perf/$ increase than if you compared it to the $420ish retail price for the 3900X.eek2121 - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
The MSRP for the 3900X is $499.I believe the XT series was released as a bit of an early run for some of the node modifications that will be utilized for Zen 3.
PixyMisa - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
Not just you. This is at least the third public announcement that Zen 3 will ship this year.name99 - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
I'm guessing that (although they don't want to say it exactly) the primary communication message they are trying to get out is "We are not that other company, don't mix us up with them. We don't promise, delay, promise, delay, till items get shipped 2+ years after they were announced".For the mass public it's "Intel, AMD, what's the difference? They're both make computer chips? And I heard that there's apparently some major screwup that was made? I guess by AMD because I've only ever heard good things about Intel"
THAT is what they are trying to prevent with these protestations on every occasion that Zen3 will come in on time and meeting specs.
brunis.dk - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Would be slightly embarrassing if they falter last minute and postpone to q1 '21 .. :DSpunjji - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Probably because of the number of rumour articles about Zen 3 delays based on FUD and claiming the XT series as "evidence" 🙄nandnandnand - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
I think it's a combo of allaying coronavirus concerns and dispelling the rumors that it was delayed to 2021, going on a 5nm node, etc.Quantumz0d - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Because of bullshit rumors all over the place saying Zen 3 is off the track and AMD wants it to get it on 5nm to compete against Intel RKL or some bs drama and that's why XT refresh and all sort of trash news.nico_mach - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Yes, this, Intel has been getting by with a lot of games, smoke, mirrors and rumors for 5 years. AMD has to keep beating the drum, because of all the money on the Intel side.DigitalFreak - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
"all sort of trash news"You need to stop reading WCCFTech. :-)
Spunjji - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
It's not just them - plenty of other sites (Notebookcheck is one I'm familiar with) like to pick up the rumours and launder them further, to the point that people can point to a few articles as "evidence".We are now living in the Disinformation Age.
Meteor2 - Saturday, August 1, 2020 - link
Absolutely. It's amazing how a baseless rumour gets recycled through a few articles or YouTube videos and suddenly it is, Indeed, "evidence".Meteor2 - Saturday, August 1, 2020 - link
Really? Zen 3 has always been 2H 2020. Nothing has changed.bananaforscale - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
I just want a release date for Zen 3. Or even a more precise ballpark than "late this year".nandnandnand - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
October is likely. That puts them ahead of an Online-Only Black Friday and the Christmas season.dotjaz - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
They can't possibly do December or next month. That leaves September October and November.rahvin - Thursday, July 30, 2020 - link
AMD has never given direct dates like that since Lisa took over.Zen 2 was announced as X quarter or X half right up until the day they announced. So don't expect a hard date until they announce availability.
yeeeeman - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Seems like AMD is fighting hard on mobile sector on pricing. down [ASP] due to a higher percentage of ryzen mobile salesdsplover - Thursday, July 30, 2020 - link
Client or Consumer? Which would be the Vermeer/Ryzen 3?I have plenty of time and already know Im getting the ASRockRack uAtx X570.
Have the Chassis (1U) just wish AMD would define which Zen 3 will come first.
Damn tired of having to read everything and deciding which I prefer was accurate.