That seems like a lot of power. I am assuming that would only be used for larger devices? I am a novice in this area and perhaps missed it in my scan of the article.
Faster charging means shorter battery longevity, reducing the lifetime of your phone. Good strategy for phone companies to sell more phones. Other notable strategies include reducing software support to three years maximum at best, and typically only two years or even less.
That's easy to avoid merely by purchasing a phone so cheap that it never gets updates and performs poorly out of the box. Who needs security and privacy anyway when you're using a Google operating system?
Nice whataboutism there quiksilvr but you obviously missed the point. Not only is it irrelevant that iCloud has exceptionally been hacked because passwords were easy to guess but it's also besides the point. Which was that even high end Android phones receive a mere 2 years of updates, and with any luck they get another year of sporadic and partial security updates. Most (cheaper) phones don't even offer that. This means using an Android phone past 2 years is an exercise in courage especially in an ecosystem so rife with malware and exploits straight from the app store. This isn't an exceptional situation, it's a perpetual state of fact.
You seem to be the type of person who would chew on broken glass because at least it's not pineapple pizza. Everyone knows how bad pineapple pizza is. slowsilvr...
Security is usually well managed on android devices so fear mongering like 2 years and you're dead is not really sincere. The fact that apple phones have much longer lifespans is a problem though. I can buy an iPhone at launch and a year in it's probably 10% less valuable to resell, compare that with any android flagship, which I can usually get at around half of launch day price on black Friday, and it starts to sink in. Problem is, I still really hate using iOS compared to android.
Apple sucks too, that's a given, but don't assume I am referring to an external hacking attempt. In Google's case, you are being constantly data mined and resold in the name of corporate survival which is a fair bit worse than just being hacked and having your data stolen.
Totally agree.....My Samsung lagged a lot after a critical update....so much so, that I wanted to buy a new phone after 2 years of its purchase. But, I did a factory reset and changed updates settings to manual and my phone works like it was purchased yesterday.......
That single questionably obtained data point is a very unscientific and irrelevant test. Current science makes it an accepted fact that high temperatures degrade a battery. Fast charging tends to warm up the battery more. This goes double for wireless charging where there's extra heat being generated.
Anyone here who has doubts as to regarding the effect of C-rate on battery life has clearly not read through most of Battery University (Google it). Or you can read my answer on Quora regarding the same, it has a summary of their points: https://qr.ae/pNsOLA
Informative, but that C rate of these insane charging speeds is my concern, I'm not believing that Li-ion technology has advanced to such a point that we have these not effecting them esp that Chinese trash technology, the OP3 I had got it's battery rekt even with gentle fast charging and normal policy of only from 40-80% in 2 years, while LG V30 that I have is solid still. I highly doubt it, esp given the fact of how these refreshes happen.
OS refresh - Every Year SoC refresh - Every Year
With that on Android we don't even have CTS mandate of Security Udpates which is very crucial but feature updates is garbage because Android is copying iOS more and more (Scoped Storage, Filesystem disaster just read on it..)
So with $1000 disposable devices, and these 100W insane high voltage charging at 8V-20V and more than 3-4Amps. That high current and voltage are going to make the batteries discharge at high speed too, the C rate increases and the battery discharge also increases. I noticed this personally, when I charge using fast charger it gets discharged very quick.
The High C rate charging is useful for 25% to 50% or 60% top depending on the battery size. This is really a trash thing, Apple's new iPhone 12 rumor is no charger in the phone, soon Samsung and others will follow the excuse will be no pollution bullshit, while the li-ion batteries are millions and billions going into trash.
No innovation in batteries at all, more money has to be made on planned obsolescence. Even LG's last effort was V20 no more flagship mobile phones with removable batteries forget that, we now have Laptops with sealed batteries (MacBooks, have them glued hard to chassis any removal will cause damage) and users cannot replace them at all, there won't be any parts to order from and DIY. It's a messm who want to give away billions of dollars worth repair market, we have Apple lobbying hard to get a hold of that hard, thus BGA.
Our only hope is to make our arguments when people with broken screens or inflated batteries or dead soldered RAM are faced with immense repair bills and must make a choice for their next device purchase.
I love the concept of right to repair, the problem is it's only an argument for apple devices since they lose much less of their value with time. For most android devices if after 2 years you crack your screen you're better off buying a new phone with roughly the same performance (if not better) for about the same price. Hell, you might even be lucky enough to find your exact phone at a retail for a little over the price of the screen replacement.
Great, let's seal the battery inside the phone and the murder it with 100w chargers so you can replace your overpriced handset even more often. Where do I sign up for this latest brilliant idea in consumer electronics customer abuse cloaked under a guise of false benefits?
It seems like such an obvious solution but I haven't seen it used so I assume there must be something that makes it harder than I'd think but with these 2S configurations for faster charging why don't they allow electronically switching to a 2P configuration during use. That would eliminate the inefficiencies having to convert the voltage when running off battery.
Batteries of different internal resistances will have different operating voltages under load, hence current runs between between batteries in parallel to "balance" the output voltage under load.
Thats fine in, say, car batteries, but its my understanding that this is bad for lithium ion batteries. It leads to wasted charge, uneven and unecessary wear, excess current through a single battery, etc.
All the so called noob battery experts in this comment section. Didn't even understand that battery replacement barely costs 20$, if you can afford a 1000$ phone with this tech, replacing a battery every year would be easy for you then. https://www.oneplus.in/support/repair-pricing/deta...
That $20 price is parts only; tax, shipping, and labor are added on top of that. Actual cost for Oneplus to replace the battery is $50+. Still, that is less than 10% of the cost of the device, so your point does have some merit.
Hmmm. Interesting. However it would still be wise to check how long battery replacement is supported, it could very well be that OP does not offer batteries for 4-5 years after the model is discontinued. It happened to me with my Samsung tablet. I'm afraid it will happen with my Galaxy S7, too. I don't want to change it
You don't need proprietary cables to hit >3A current - with USB-C PD, you can deliver up to 5A over cables with the e-marker. That's how PD can do 100W (20V, 5A) on laptops. Over 5A, though, requires proprietary solutions that are non-compliant - as the Chinese >100W phones are doing and as Dell does with its proprietary 130W USB-C charging on XPS laptops.
Most consumer laptops use 60 to 65 W charging so that's only 20V * 3 A over PD.
What's this about 2:1 conversion within the phone? If that can be done inside the charger, with the phone only handling battery-level voltages like with VOOC or Dash Charge, then the phone doesn't get as hot during fast charging.
This article omits one aspect of PPS, viz : PPS allows charging with constant current but granularly adjustable voltage, rather than grossly adjusting voltage among 3, 5, 9, 12, and 20V. My understanding is that charging a battery with constant current and changing voltage is better for the battery's health. Correct me if I'm wrong.
That's not how electricity works, every voltage has a corresponding current, you select one and the other is calculated from the equation/graph... (Not with all devices such as schmitt triggers and thyristors, but certainly with batteries).
I use an ELECJET PowerPie 20000mAh power bank which supports USB-PD 3.0 and PPS, and it charges my Note 10+ 5G at the same 45W as the Samsung-branded fast charger.
(Note that the Note 10 requires PPS to charge at full speed, because it charges at 11V * 4.05A = 45W, and USB-PD does not support intermediate voltages like 11V unless there is PPS.)
Furthermore, the S10 supports USB-PD 2.0, which is essentially the same as 3.0 except that 3.0 has optional PPS, as well as a few other minor features (according to Wikipedia: 3.0 adds extended configuration messages, fast role swap, and deprecates the BFSK protocol, along with adding optional PPS).
So the S10 won't charge as fast as the Note 10 or the S20, which support USB-PD with PPS, but it will still charge at USB-PD 2.0, which is no slouch. The S10 supports 15W charging, while the S20 and Note 10 support 45W charging.
Boring. It should be standard for bypass or laptop like power mode where the device gets its power from the adapter and not the battery while plugged in. Smartphone gaming in Asia is insane. This also has the small benefit for running old phones without a battery
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ingwe - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
That seems like a lot of power. I am assuming that would only be used for larger devices? I am a novice in this area and perhaps missed it in my scan of the article.Infy2 - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Faster charging means shorter battery longevity, reducing the lifetime of your phone. Good strategy for phone companies to sell more phones. Other notable strategies include reducing software support to three years maximum at best, and typically only two years or even less.id4andrei - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Another one is providing stealthy updates that throttle your smartphone so you upgrade your phone not even 2 years in use.PeachNCream - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
That's easy to avoid merely by purchasing a phone so cheap that it never gets updates and performs poorly out of the box. Who needs security and privacy anyway when you're using a Google operating system?quiksilvr - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Ah yes, because iCloud never had a security breach on private photos.close - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Nice whataboutism there quiksilvr but you obviously missed the point. Not only is it irrelevant that iCloud has exceptionally been hacked because passwords were easy to guess but it's also besides the point. Which was that even high end Android phones receive a mere 2 years of updates, and with any luck they get another year of sporadic and partial security updates. Most (cheaper) phones don't even offer that. This means using an Android phone past 2 years is an exercise in courage especially in an ecosystem so rife with malware and exploits straight from the app store. This isn't an exceptional situation, it's a perpetual state of fact.You seem to be the type of person who would chew on broken glass because at least it's not pineapple pizza. Everyone knows how bad pineapple pizza is. slowsilvr...
StevenD - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
Security is usually well managed on android devices so fear mongering like 2 years and you're dead is not really sincere.The fact that apple phones have much longer lifespans is a problem though. I can buy an iPhone at launch and a year in it's probably 10% less valuable to resell, compare that with any android flagship, which I can usually get at around half of launch day price on black Friday, and it starts to sink in.
Problem is, I still really hate using iOS compared to android.
PeachNCream - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Apple sucks too, that's a given, but don't assume I am referring to an external hacking attempt. In Google's case, you are being constantly data mined and resold in the name of corporate survival which is a fair bit worse than just being hacked and having your data stolen.bharatwd - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
Totally agree.....My Samsung lagged a lot after a critical update....so much so, that I wanted to buy a new phone after 2 years of its purchase. But, I did a factory reset and changed updates settings to manual and my phone works like it was purchased yesterday.......ingwe - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Yeah that was my concern. 100W just seems crazy.quiksilvr - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
100W for dual cell operations. Single cell batteries which are in a vast majority of phones will still be "limited" to 45W.SydneyBlue120d - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
That's not true about the battery:https://www.dday.it/redazione/36286/la-ricarica-ra...
close - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
That single questionably obtained data point is a very unscientific and irrelevant test. Current science makes it an accepted fact that high temperatures degrade a battery. Fast charging tends to warm up the battery more. This goes double for wireless charging where there's extra heat being generated.SydneyBlue120d - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
If this is an accepted fact, I'm sure you can share some smartphone battery test proving that the Dday test is wrong, thanks for that.shabby - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
He'll get right on it testing it a few times on his phone...Frankly he sounds like a flat earther.
ads295 - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Anyone here who has doubts as to regarding the effect of C-rate on battery life has clearly not read through most of Battery University (Google it).Or you can read my answer on Quora regarding the same, it has a summary of their points:
https://qr.ae/pNsOLA
Quantumz0d - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Informative, but that C rate of these insane charging speeds is my concern, I'm not believing that Li-ion technology has advanced to such a point that we have these not effecting them esp that Chinese trash technology, the OP3 I had got it's battery rekt even with gentle fast charging and normal policy of only from 40-80% in 2 years, while LG V30 that I have is solid still. I highly doubt it, esp given the fact of how these refreshes happen.OS refresh - Every Year
SoC refresh - Every Year
With that on Android we don't even have CTS mandate of Security Udpates which is very crucial but feature updates is garbage because Android is copying iOS more and more (Scoped Storage, Filesystem disaster just read on it..)
So with $1000 disposable devices, and these 100W insane high voltage charging at 8V-20V and more than 3-4Amps. That high current and voltage are going to make the batteries discharge at high speed too, the C rate increases and the battery discharge also increases. I noticed this personally, when I charge using fast charger it gets discharged very quick.
The High C rate charging is useful for 25% to 50% or 60% top depending on the battery size. This is really a trash thing, Apple's new iPhone 12 rumor is no charger in the phone, soon Samsung and others will follow the excuse will be no pollution bullshit, while the li-ion batteries are millions and billions going into trash.
No innovation in batteries at all, more money has to be made on planned obsolescence. Even LG's last effort was V20 no more flagship mobile phones with removable batteries forget that, we now have Laptops with sealed batteries (MacBooks, have them glued hard to chassis any removal will cause damage) and users cannot replace them at all, there won't be any parts to order from and DIY. It's a messm who want to give away billions of dollars worth repair market, we have Apple lobbying hard to get a hold of that hard, thus BGA.
ads295 - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Our only hope is to make our arguments when people with broken screens or inflated batteries or dead soldered RAM are faced with immense repair bills and must make a choice for their next device purchase.StevenD - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
I love the concept of right to repair, the problem is it's only an argument for apple devices since they lose much less of their value with time.For most android devices if after 2 years you crack your screen you're better off buying a new phone with roughly the same performance (if not better) for about the same price. Hell, you might even be lucky enough to find your exact phone at a retail for a little over the price of the screen replacement.
PeachNCream - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Great, let's seal the battery inside the phone and the murder it with 100w chargers so you can replace your overpriced handset even more often. Where do I sign up for this latest brilliant idea in consumer electronics customer abuse cloaked under a guise of false benefits?shabby - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Here come the battery experts...kpb321 - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
It seems like such an obvious solution but I haven't seen it used so I assume there must be something that makes it harder than I'd think but with these 2S configurations for faster charging why don't they allow electronically switching to a 2P configuration during use. That would eliminate the inefficiencies having to convert the voltage when running off battery.brucethemoose - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Batteries of different internal resistances will have different operating voltages under load, hence current runs between between batteries in parallel to "balance" the output voltage under load.Thats fine in, say, car batteries, but its my understanding that this is bad for lithium ion batteries. It leads to wasted charge, uneven and unecessary wear, excess current through a single battery, etc.
Sharma_Ji - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
All the so called noob battery experts in this comment section.Didn't even understand that battery replacement barely costs 20$, if you can afford a 1000$ phone with this tech, replacing a battery every year would be easy for you then.
https://www.oneplus.in/support/repair-pricing/deta...
qwertymac93 - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
That $20 price is parts only; tax, shipping, and labor are added on top of that. Actual cost for Oneplus to replace the battery is $50+. Still, that is less than 10% of the cost of the device, so your point does have some merit.ads295 - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
Hmmm. Interesting.However it would still be wise to check how long battery replacement is supported, it could very well be that OP does not offer batteries for 4-5 years after the model is discontinued.
It happened to me with my Samsung tablet.
I'm afraid it will happen with my Galaxy S7, too. I don't want to change it
amb9800 - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
You don't need proprietary cables to hit >3A current - with USB-C PD, you can deliver up to 5A over cables with the e-marker. That's how PD can do 100W (20V, 5A) on laptops. Over 5A, though, requires proprietary solutions that are non-compliant - as the Chinese >100W phones are doing and as Dell does with its proprietary 130W USB-C charging on XPS laptops.serendip - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
Most consumer laptops use 60 to 65 W charging so that's only 20V * 3 A over PD.What's this about 2:1 conversion within the phone? If that can be done inside the charger, with the phone only handling battery-level voltages like with VOOC or Dash Charge, then the phone doesn't get as hot during fast charging.
ads295 - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
The USB Power Delivery spec is awesome. Guess I'll use the phone charger on my USB-PD laptop and use a 5W charger for my phone. YayMikewind Dale - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
This article omits one aspect of PPS, viz : PPS allows charging with constant current but granularly adjustable voltage, rather than grossly adjusting voltage among 3, 5, 9, 12, and 20V. My understanding is that charging a battery with constant current and changing voltage is better for the battery's health. Correct me if I'm wrong.ThrowawayAccount - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
That's not how electricity works, every voltage has a corresponding current, you select one and the other is calculated from the equation/graph... (Not with all devices such as schmitt triggers and thyristors, but certainly with batteries).phoenix_rizzen - Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - link
Any bets on how long it takes Samsung to support QC 5, seeing how the S10 series still uses QC 2?Mikewind Dale - Monday, August 3, 2020 - link
The Note 10 and the S20 both support USB-PD 3.0.I use an ELECJET PowerPie 20000mAh power bank which supports USB-PD 3.0 and PPS, and it charges my Note 10+ 5G at the same 45W as the Samsung-branded fast charger.
(Note that the Note 10 requires PPS to charge at full speed, because it charges at 11V * 4.05A = 45W, and USB-PD does not support intermediate voltages like 11V unless there is PPS.)
Mikewind Dale - Monday, August 3, 2020 - link
Furthermore, the S10 supports USB-PD 2.0, which is essentially the same as 3.0 except that 3.0 has optional PPS, as well as a few other minor features (according to Wikipedia: 3.0 adds extended configuration messages, fast role swap, and deprecates the BFSK protocol, along with adding optional PPS).So the S10 won't charge as fast as the Note 10 or the S20, which support USB-PD with PPS, but it will still charge at USB-PD 2.0, which is no slouch. The S10 supports 15W charging, while the S20 and Note 10 support 45W charging.
zodiacfml - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
Boring. It should be standard for bypass or laptop like power mode where the device gets its power from the adapter and not the battery while plugged in. Smartphone gaming in Asia is insane.This also has the small benefit for running old phones without a battery