I love the idea of super-high refresh rates and touch response. But jumping Jupiter, Batman, phone prices these days are completely out-of-control, even for these 'boutique' phones.
Considering 865+ is $230 or so and 144hz refresh screen must be super expensive, prices being so high is not crazy. On top of it 16GB LPDDR5 ram and UFS 3.1 storage. we are specing up these phones like crazy. Not sure you need that much in a small device.
Once Android standardizes the whole "plug to a monitor and get a proper interface" locked down, we can start to see virtualization baked into phones. Imagine simply walking up to a WiDi monitor, bluetooth keyboard and mouse and your phone launches a Windows 10 VM wirelessly to those devices? You no longer need a laptop and can use x86 programs natively running on a VM on your phone. That is the future.
It's more likely that x86 goes the way of the DODO. With Apple swapping their entire Mac lineup to ARM, it won't be long before Microsoft and Adobe code their apps to work on mobile platforms.
I don't get the ARM will kill x86 argument. My iPad pro which benchmarks faster than my laptop, stutters playing Minecraft at times with nothing else running and chews through battery doing it. I suppose we will see when the first ARM Mac's launch. The development kits seem to have fairly ordinary performance unde emulation.
Well, if NVIDIA buys ARM, it's pretty much bye-bye Intel. AMD will probably also go ARM, as they have expressed interest. Maybe we'll finally have NV and AMD play nice, and the MBA-run disaster that is Intel will just become a name fading in memory. Hmmm... I do wonder about the possibilities.
I don't think Minecraft on iPad is using Apple's Metal API for the graphics, but rather the deprecated OpenGL which doesn't perform very well plus we of course have the whole thing that games (i.e. software) can still perform bad despite the hardware being capable. :)
It doesn't seem very realistic. Between models they charge 200E extra for the "+", 8GB of RAM and 256GB of storage extra. This means that the "+" itself can't be that much more expensive that the regular 865, and this is found in "relatively" cheap phones. Nothing that would suggest that just the SoC itself is 200E.
Problem is the weight. We need large battery life with light weight phones. Only Samsung seems able to accomplish this with the S20. This phone is MORE than 50 percent heavier.
I don't think the market they're addressing with the ROG Phone really cares that much about the weight. I mean, it's not a rock in your pocket and for the specs and accessories that can be used with it... it's well worth it. I'd ragtherhave6a heavier phone with a battery that lasts, than a lightweight one that has to be charged daily. My ZS630KL lasts for 10-13 days. I don't use Facebook and don't watch videos on it... but still. That's Nokia 3310 territory, if not better
Yeah, that does come across to me as well as a cheap way to push the accessory add-on in order to get the headphone jack back. Oh well. Otherwise this looks pretty solid. I hope Anandtech is able to get one in for review to put their "no throttling" feature to the test on the SD865+ silicon!
Wireless isn't very good quality. I guess if you use Spotify and stream 320k it is probably fine, if you use even flac and more so real HD audio wireless doesn't cut it. There are those of us that spend more on our headphones then our phones.
Spotify 384k (vorbis, I think?) is completely transparent on my desktop, according to a blind test I did awhile ago. If theres a difference, its pretty darn small.
Anyway, you can hear definitely the transcoding on older wireless gear, but I would be very surpised if it made a difference on newer headsets. The real problem with wireless is that it adds to the cost of audio gear, which comes at the cost of quality.
Maybe he buys into MQA, or thinks WAV is somehow higher resolution than FLAC. Either way, in a sense he's right that even modern Bluetooth audio standards like aptX HD don't have the throughput for HD audio. IIRC the highest rate those hit is around 1 Mbps, while 192/24 audio hits about 10 Mbps. On the other hand, 44.1/16 covers the entire hearing spectrum and no recording uses 16 bits of dynamic range, let alone 24, so it's probably a waste of space anyhow.
I agree with the sentiment about headphone jacks. I bought my current phone almost exclusively because of the headphone jack, but with the way the wind is blowing I doubt my next phone will have one. I bought an MP3 player to handle my headphones in case the headphone jack outright vanishes, but I hope it doesn't.
What kind of games do people play on these that need 144Hz? What kind of controller attachments are they using? Does it play console or PC games or something?
Nobody anywhere "needs" 144Hz, but you can play PUBG, Call of Duty, Fortnite on mobile, to name a few, all games that subjectively seem better if you can play with higher than console frame rates. But mostly this is marketing - the crowd interested in this phone knows all about 144Hz.
I'm genuinely curious why we have gotten stuck with these idiotic long screen aspect ratios. Even if you account for the control buttons in Android being on screen this would justify maybe 17-17.5:9 aspect ratio. I used a friend's Galaxy S8 back when he got it and that screen was bad enough at 18.5:9 that I didn't want a new phone.
Now it seems like there simply aren't any options that don't have 19:9+ aspect ratios. I have another newer 16:9 than my current that I'll switch to when I need to, but the trend just confuses me as I see no advantages.
ASUS promised "at least" 2 full version OS updates. So if it comes with Android 10, it will be updated to at least Android 12. Thats what they said about the ZS630KL. I own one and updates have been timely, and the OS is stable. I'm a happy customer.
@ moon - My ROG2 (Chinese rom - too lazy to change it), has received regular updates. Update before current was a nightmare, with random reboot cycle. They quickly changed it, and its better, but not 100%. Must get around to changing to the global rom.
It's finally here. Now I'm waiting for the Zenfone 7. I hope they stick to the same formula they stuck with the Zenfone 6. High end specs, no notch, no punch hole, headphone jack(?), microSD, 1 week+ battery life, stock Android.
So six times more heatsink to prevent thermal throttling just means that the last generation of ROG phone had woefully insufficient cooling even when assuming the SoC does not require as much thermal dissipation.
Literally that. 8GB is already overkill on Android - you *cannot use that RAM*.
I remember defending ever-larger RAM quantities back in the days when 1GB was considered standard and people though 3GB was silly. I gave up somewhere past 4GB.
This one won't have good software for sure just like the ROG II, yeah the BL can be unlocked which is great but the price will be over $900 for sure. And they removed the 3.5mm jack, and no SD slot either.
Not interested no use for me personally as the goddamned phone has 6K battery for good usage of 3 years but this lack of Memory card and headphone jack is deal breaker. Fuck off ASUS.
Thanks Andrei! Question: With the venting holes etc, is that phone still IP6x (67 or 68) rated? Unrelated to this, any insights on whether these high-binned 865 SoCs are also a bit more power efficient than their non-plus brethren? I guess they might be, but guessing means not knowing. Thanks!
To be honest, I feel all these "Gaming" phones are really just a desperate way to create interest and make money out of the already crowded market. These are just another smart phone but spammed with all sorts of overkill hardware for a phone.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
64 Comments
Back to Article
ChefJeff789 - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
I love the idea of super-high refresh rates and touch response. But jumping Jupiter, Batman, phone prices these days are completely out-of-control, even for these 'boutique' phones.trivik12 - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Considering 865+ is $230 or so and 144hz refresh screen must be super expensive, prices being so high is not crazy. On top of it 16GB LPDDR5 ram and UFS 3.1 storage. we are specing up these phones like crazy. Not sure you need that much in a small device.quiksilvr - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Once Android standardizes the whole "plug to a monitor and get a proper interface" locked down, we can start to see virtualization baked into phones. Imagine simply walking up to a WiDi monitor, bluetooth keyboard and mouse and your phone launches a Windows 10 VM wirelessly to those devices? You no longer need a laptop and can use x86 programs natively running on a VM on your phone. That is the future.Morawka - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
It's more likely that x86 goes the way of the DODO. With Apple swapping their entire Mac lineup to ARM, it won't be long before Microsoft and Adobe code their apps to work on mobile platforms.Speedfriend - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
I don't get the ARM will kill x86 argument. My iPad pro which benchmarks faster than my laptop, stutters playing Minecraft at times with nothing else running and chews through battery doing it. I suppose we will see when the first ARM Mac's launch. The development kits seem to have fairly ordinary performance unde emulation.LordSojar - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link
Well, if NVIDIA buys ARM, it's pretty much bye-bye Intel. AMD will probably also go ARM, as they have expressed interest. Maybe we'll finally have NV and AMD play nice, and the MBA-run disaster that is Intel will just become a name fading in memory. Hmmm... I do wonder about the possibilities.star-affinity - Sunday, August 2, 2020 - link
I don't think Minecraft on iPad is using Apple's Metal API for the graphics, but rather the deprecated OpenGL which doesn't perform very well plus we of course have the whole thing that games (i.e. software) can still perform bad despite the hardware being capable. :)Kraszmyl - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
Amusingly windows phones did this like five years ago and it works great.tuxRoller - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Where did you come by that bom figure for the 865+?close - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
It doesn't seem very realistic. Between models they charge 200E extra for the "+", 8GB of RAM and 256GB of storage extra. This means that the "+" itself can't be that much more expensive that the regular 865, and this is found in "relatively" cheap phones. Nothing that would suggest that just the SoC itself is 200E.tuxRoller - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link
The "cheap" phones are what I had in mind.brucethemoose - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Yeah. I think this thing is faster than my laptop in literally every way.Fulljack - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link
SD865 are reportedly priced around 80$, that includes the X55 modem but not the whole package like RF module and PCB design, etc.I don't think SD865+ could be priced at 230$...
heoheo00911 - Sunday, August 9, 2020 - link
Wait, how did you get the price of the SoC? I thought it's 130$ or something.hemedans - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
rog phone 2 had cheaper version for around $500, hope Rog 3 8gb version would be sameAlistair - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Problem is the weight. We need large battery life with light weight phones. Only Samsung seems able to accomplish this with the S20. This phone is MORE than 50 percent heavier.brucethemoose - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Why though? 220g feels just fine to me, and the tradeoffs (battery, durability/longevity, price) are well worth it.3ogdy - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
I don't think the market they're addressing with the ROG Phone really cares that much about the weight. I mean, it's not a rock in your pocket and for the specs and accessories that can be used with it... it's well worth it. I'd ragtherhave6a heavier phone with a battery that lasts, than a lightweight one that has to be charged daily. My ZS630KL lasts for 10-13 days. I don't use Facebook and don't watch videos on it... but still. That's Nokia 3310 territory, if not betterHammerStrike - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
You get 2 weeks on single charge of a 5000mAh battery? Sure...rrinker - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
Yeah, in Airplane Mode LOL.ads295 - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Come on man, even on a device with no regard for size and weight, you get rid of the headphone jack? How dumbNextGen_Gamer - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Yeah, that does come across to me as well as a cheap way to push the accessory add-on in order to get the headphone jack back. Oh well. Otherwise this looks pretty solid. I hope Anandtech is able to get one in for review to put their "no throttling" feature to the test on the SD865+ silicon!imaheadcase - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Because most don't care for a headphone jack. I think i saw one person last week with one..PeachNCream - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Do you have anything beyond personal opinion and anecdotal evidence to support a claim about what the majority of people do or do not want?Notmyusualid - Saturday, July 25, 2020 - link
I use my headphone jack all the time. So, no, I won't be changing my ROG2 for ROG3.plb4333 - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
ever heard of wireless?BenSkywalker - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Wireless isn't very good quality. I guess if you use Spotify and stream 320k it is probably fine, if you use even flac and more so real HD audio wireless doesn't cut it. There are those of us that spend more on our headphones then our phones.brucethemoose - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Spotify 384k (vorbis, I think?) is completely transparent on my desktop, according to a blind test I did awhile ago. If theres a difference, its pretty darn small.Anyway, you can hear definitely the transcoding on older wireless gear, but I would be very surpised if it made a difference on newer headsets. The real problem with wireless is that it adds to the cost of audio gear, which comes at the cost of quality.
marcobelli - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
How does audio get more ("real") HD than FLAC?Inteli - Sunday, July 26, 2020 - link
Maybe he buys into MQA, or thinks WAV is somehow higher resolution than FLAC. Either way, in a sense he's right that even modern Bluetooth audio standards like aptX HD don't have the throughput for HD audio. IIRC the highest rate those hit is around 1 Mbps, while 192/24 audio hits about 10 Mbps. On the other hand, 44.1/16 covers the entire hearing spectrum and no recording uses 16 bits of dynamic range, let alone 24, so it's probably a waste of space anyhow.I agree with the sentiment about headphone jacks. I bought my current phone almost exclusively because of the headphone jack, but with the way the wind is blowing I doubt my next phone will have one. I bought an MP3 player to handle my headphones in case the headphone jack outright vanishes, but I hope it doesn't.
cjl - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
Fun fact: A phone with a headphone jack can still use wireless headphones. The reverse, however, is not true.brucethemoose - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Now thats a flagship! It looks like something that would last 5+ years, as opposed to a $1k piece of glass your throw away every year or two.Biathanatos - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
What kind of games do people play on these that need 144Hz? What kind of controller attachments are they using? Does it play console or PC games or something?Moizy - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Nobody anywhere "needs" 144Hz, but you can play PUBG, Call of Duty, Fortnite on mobile, to name a few, all games that subjectively seem better if you can play with higher than console frame rates. But mostly this is marketing - the crowd interested in this phone knows all about 144Hz.TheinsanegamerN - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
And I’m guessing, much like the ROG II, the VoLTE support in the USA will be totally MIAthestryker - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
I'm genuinely curious why we have gotten stuck with these idiotic long screen aspect ratios. Even if you account for the control buttons in Android being on screen this would justify maybe 17-17.5:9 aspect ratio. I used a friend's Galaxy S8 back when he got it and that screen was bad enough at 18.5:9 that I didn't want a new phone.Now it seems like there simply aren't any options that don't have 19:9+ aspect ratios. I have another newer 16:9 than my current that I'll switch to when I need to, but the trend just confuses me as I see no advantages.
Jiai - Monday, July 27, 2020 - link
It is only because :a) They reached the width limit for the screens.
b) They try to make bigger screens.
mooninite - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Only 6 months... maybe 1 year in software support, right? Come on...3ogdy - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
ASUS promised "at least" 2 full version OS updates. So if it comes with Android 10, it will be updated to at least Android 12.Thats what they said about the ZS630KL. I own one and updates have been timely, and the OS is stable. I'm a happy customer.
Notmyusualid - Saturday, July 25, 2020 - link
@ moon - My ROG2 (Chinese rom - too lazy to change it), has received regular updates. Update before current was a nightmare, with random reboot cycle. They quickly changed it, and its better, but not 100%. Must get around to changing to the global rom.3ogdy - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
It's finally here. Now I'm waiting for the Zenfone 7.I hope they stick to the same formula they stuck with the Zenfone 6. High end specs, no notch, no punch hole, headphone jack(?), microSD, 1 week+ battery life, stock Android.
brucethemoose - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
> "stock Android"Amen. Thats probably why they can update it.
iphonebestgamephone - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link
What do use to get 1 week on that? Just the calculator?PeachNCream - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
So six times more heatsink to prevent thermal throttling just means that the last generation of ROG phone had woefully insufficient cooling even when assuming the SoC does not require as much thermal dissipation.nandnandnand - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Removing the headphone jack allowed them to sextuple the heatsink.PeachNCream - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
So sex...tupling is only available after you get rid of the hole? That seems counterintuitive,.
SteveX107 - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
This joke was bruhXex360 - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Like with Laptops, going products tend to be better offering more essential features, like headphone jack here.Xex360 - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
It turned out I miss read GSM arena's feature list, there is no headphone jack in this phone.Icehawk - Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - link
Why so much RAM in these?ads295 - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link
"I need muh jiggabytez"Spunjji - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link
Literally that. 8GB is already overkill on Android - you *cannot use that RAM*.I remember defending ever-larger RAM quantities back in the days when 1GB was considered standard and people though 3GB was silly. I gave up somewhere past 4GB.
Quantumz0d - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
This one won't have good software for sure just like the ROG II, yeah the BL can be unlocked which is great but the price will be over $900 for sure. And they removed the 3.5mm jack, and no SD slot either.Not interested no use for me personally as the goddamned phone has 6K battery for good usage of 3 years but this lack of Memory card and headphone jack is deal breaker. Fuck off ASUS.
Quantumz0d - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
Forgot to mention, no USA band support, meaning no Development for Custom ROMs too. It's just a useless brick.GreenReaper - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
Smart people motivated to get the best out of a piece of hardware live everywhere.iphonebestgamephone - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link
Youll get the roms made by indians.Notmyusualid - Saturday, July 25, 2020 - link
I've had no issues using my China-sourced ROG2 stateside... on either sim.eastcoast_pete - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
Thanks Andrei! Question: With the venting holes etc, is that phone still IP6x (67 or 68) rated?Unrelated to this, any insights on whether these high-binned 865 SoCs are also a bit more power efficient than their non-plus brethren? I guess they might be, but guessing means not knowing. Thanks!
Kishoreshack - Thursday, July 23, 2020 - link
The question is do we need this much ram ?Spunjji - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link
Nope. Not on a phone. Most people don't even need that much on a desktop :Eiphonebestgamephone - Friday, July 24, 2020 - link
Its actually good for loading 4k texture packs.flyingpants265 - Sunday, July 26, 2020 - link
They TOOK OUT the headphone jack? LMFAO!So if I happen to be stuck somewhere charging my phone, I guess I can just... Stare at the floor?
iphonebestgamephone - Sunday, July 26, 2020 - link
Uhh no, you can use an adpapter on one of the two free usb c ports. Or plug in the included cooling fan wihich has a 3.5mm.watzupken - Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - link
To be honest, I feel all these "Gaming" phones are really just a desperate way to create interest and make money out of the already crowded market. These are just another smart phone but spammed with all sorts of overkill hardware for a phone.