Yeah the reference camera, which isn't even a very special one, shows just how pathetic these phone camera are. I have a 10 year old canon slr. I don't even know megapixels but we all know they don't really matter that much. sensor size and optics is far more important. Yeah it's an unfair comparison but the difference is such gigantic were the 10 year old slr is just so much better.
Even expensive lenses are down to about 50% contrast at 3.5um which explains why the phone pictures are either lacking in detail or artificially sharpened when you look closely. Still as they say, the best camera is the one you have with you.
Firstly, the reference camera is a brand new model of a $900 USD camera It is certainly a WORLD better than your old Canon SLR. Even over the past 3 years, Nikon and Fuji had made huge strides in the quality of their sensors.
Speaking of which, the iPhone 11 is certainly a lot better than your Canon as well. I have a number of SLRs, including Nikons and Canons, and until recently Canons had horrendous dynamic range (most Canons just a few years old had 6 stops of DR. The iPhone 11 has 11 stops, which coincidentally bests a number of current model SLRs).
Secondly, saying that the reference shows "how pathetic" phone cameras are is bizarre if you've actually looked at the pictures. There are a number where it would be hard pressed to say what camera was "special", and a number where I'd hardly call the Fujis picture the winner.
Fuji's sensors are certainly not known for performance, especially DR. Then again Canon's neither, but 10 years ago that would probably have been FF, so that somewhat bridges the gap.
Well, for years photographers have used PS and LR to develop Fuji files and reached the opposite conclusion, and determined that Fuji's main advantage is their JPG filters. There was also discussion about "fake ISO" in which Fuji's ISO numbers are artificially boosted by about half or was it 2/3rds of a stop, I don't know how this particular measurement is influenced by those factors. Also, if you look at base ISO, Fuji's XT-3 has 2/3 stop less DR than the equivalent Sony (A6600) because its base ISO is higher.
The latest sensor is barely one and a half years old so it doesn't really matter whats years long discussions say. Capture One also has much better handling of the raw files than the Adobe apps which might be related to what you're reading.
That's suggesting that Fuji had reason to stop inflating those numbers, but nothing points to that otherwise. There's another way to read into this, the XE1, which was often accused of inflating ISO, had a stop lower DR at base, according to that site, than an old Sony, the a6000, while this exact difference is maintained between a6600 and XT3. In the mean time, Fuji's pipeline has apparently stayed the same and continues to use Sony sensors. With nearly a stop less base ISO to work with it's handicapped anyhow, it would make news if the Fuji at ISO200 matches Sony's DR at ISO100. I don't even know why you're trying to refute this.
Or actually, if you look at it the other way, that they both actually start at ISO100, but Fuji's ISO number on the chart was indeed inflated by 2/3rds of a stop, then everything adds up too.
Mobile phone camera presently innovating. these days people are capturing special moment with mobile camera only . <a href="https://www.uaetechnician.com/mobile-repair-servic... repair dubai </a> will give you all supportive software for best quality picture.
There is so much R&D put into an iPhone (or other camera phone sensor, since they almost all come from Sony) versus a 10 year old Canon that there is really no comparison. Sure, phones have small pixels, but they are also back-side illuminated for improved sensitivity / fill factor, have better quantum efficiency, have *much* lower read noise due to correlated double sampling, and lower dark current as well.
Phone cameras have pretty amazing multi-element lenses that are competitive f/#'s (1.8 for the main camera). The lenses can be smaller due to the smaller pixels, and smaller lenses can be molded with exotic shapes that are not affordable in SLRs (since they would require large aspheric elements).
Ryan Smith: this stunningly thorough and well-organized article needs to be awarded an Anandtech Anthology title. This title simply undersells the depth of content here by Andrei F. I'll be forever linking this article.
I agree with skavi: having the reference camera (US $1300 for those curious, body + 18-55 kit lens) seals the deal here.
And, completely off-topic: you gotta love Fujifilm's X-Trans colors. Sure, you'll want a ~20mm equivalent lens for wide-angle shots, but I'm impressed at how much distance the X-T30 created even the best-of-the-best 2020 mobile cameras (esp. at night & with any zoom).
Agree, I haven't looked through all of it yet as I've just seen it whilst cooking (an old MacBook Air TN screen isn't exactly ideal for this) but the sheer scale, depth of analysis and complexity here is just astonishing.
I must say one thing.... I hate you Andrei. I'm sorry to say it. I'd JUST accepted that I no longer needed a dedicated camera and that a phone was good enough. Then you go and do this to me... when you're just looking at phone shots and comparing between phones, you don't notice so much the poor quality, Then some git puts a proper camera in the mix and you become acutely aware of just how poor these phone cameras are.
I say I hate you, but it's really my bank manager who has the problem.
The point I think this article also makes quite profoundly is that there is NO point in spending £1400 on an amazing phone for it's camera system. You'd be far better off buying a cheapish iPhone SE or something similar for decent phone performance and spending the rest on a proper camera. There's no justification for these expensive phone cameras aside from portability.
The problem is that when I have an SLR or similar, I become obsessive. I spend all of my time out and about looking through the lens and it makes me hard to be with as well as meaning I miss a lot of what is going on. I end up not taking the camera out in order to avoid that behaviour.
Additionally, when you have time and have recovered from this monster of an article, I'd really love to see the Oneplus 8/8 pro reviews. I simply find it impossible to trust the majority of tech reviews these days... especially when they throw out a fluke decent 100x zoom image from the Samsung S20 superdoopdoop phone and say it's stunning and representative of real world performance. It makes me cringe. Additionally, I'm never sure with Samsung if they're sending reviewers in Europe the Snapdragon model when consumers are getting Samsung's home baked SoC.
Honestly, is it time to increase Anandtech's resources? Would the increase in traffic from covering more models of phone sooner justify another reviewer or indeed an assistant reviewer who didn't have to come up with new ways of doing things but just followed the established models?
tl;dr - I think my painkillers have kicked in and I'm raaaambling.
> Additionally, when you have time and have recovered from this monster of an article, I'd really love to see the Oneplus 8/8 pro reviews
I will get to those reviews in due time (there's a lack of it), the TL;DR is that they're both great phones and the 8Pro is my favourite flagship this year, with only the S20+ as a second option.
Get a waist level viewfinder for your dedicated camera, and you'll feel less like you're putting the camera between yourself and the world. Instead of constantly looking at the back of the camera or through a lens, you're glancing down to check the framing before clicking the shutter, and then looking back up at your subject.
If you're doing static shots like this, the Pixel should really be using Night Sight Mode always. It is actually impressive, and because it counts on hand movement, it can probably out resolve any cell phone optics as it's sampling from different parts of the lens for the same parts of the image. Other than night sight, yeah, the pixel is pretty tame compared to these other cameras.
No inclusion of oppo flagships x2 & pro, i can bet oppo/realme's HDR algorithm is one of the best , if not the best. And also video is not tested, their video stabilization algo. Is best too.
absolutely awesome article. it might be worth updating this article from time to time with new phones (although it might be hard to replicate the weather conditions (esp. as solar inclination/intensity changes throughout the year))
Thanks for a detailed balanced and interesting head-to-head. But, for me and the people around me, this increasingly misses the point: low- and mid-range phones have gotten so good that, off the top of my head, of the 20 people closer to me only 1 still buys flagships, and he's wavering. For the overwhelming majority of people, the issue with pictures is not the hardware, not the software, but the wetware. I had a guy pester me about the best cheap cameraphone... turns out he doesn't know what HDR and macro are. I'd be interested in a comparison across budget lines (something I'm regularly doing on GSMArena, but that's in-lab shots) and across years, to know *if* paying more is worth it, before I start agonizing about which expensive phone to get.
while true, i doubt this would be feasible. while there are just a few flagships there are a gazillion mid- & low-range phones. also, while cheaper sticker price wise, i doubt that they're that much cheaper overall. i tend to keep my iphone's 2-4 years at which point i sell them for around $250-500. that amounts to ~$15-20/month, which is about the same as my unlimited plan. sure you can buy a sub $500 phone and keep it 2-4 years too, but if you want it to be as secure as possible (get current os releases) you have to be VERY careful which one to buy... fairphone and the iphone se come to mind, but not much else.
1- some low and mid-rangers sell a lot more than others. I'd think Redmi Note, Galaxy Axx, probably Oppo A9. 2- It seems nowadays I'm keeping my $200 phones 3 years-ish too, so that works out to $6/mo. Are you counting AppleCare too ? I wouldn't leave a $1k phone uninsured, especially one with parts as expensive as Apple's (a XIaomi's battery and screen are $15each, and DIYable). 3- VERY careful indeed. As in: not the same as Jeff "dick pics and biz secrets" Bezos (an iPhone), and not the one that fell to the biggest ever Mobile malware campaign (iPhones, xCodeGhost) or has the cheapest open-*market price for hacks (iPhone). My goal was not to launch the "is Apple worth the premium risk and constraints" debate, but I'm game anytime. I'm more interested in a both more general and more specific "are flagships worth it, picture-wise" article. Preferrably facts-based.
I don't know if it is the same in the US but in the UK iPhone trade in price have collapsed. A friend wanted to upgrade his year old XS Max 512 to get an 11 for the camera. He paid 1450 for the XS Max and the value now is 450, £1000 fall in 1 year.
The release of the SE has collapsed the prices of older iPhone too
Pixel 3A, P30 Lite (GMS), P40 Lite (non GMS), Samsung A51, Xiaomis and Realmes without and with Arnova or BSG GCam are the kind of true midrange phones that could be chosen.
The Huawei Lite versions of flagships are highly optimised, very akin to the Pixel 3A budget series for long now (people like their P10 Lite and P20 Lite too), which also have their revered Night Shot.
I am able to do astrophotography with my P30 Lite, and I cannot think of a single phone under sub $300 that can do it this well, including Pixels. My custom one-click Snapseed filters make any pictures equivalent to and even untouchable for flagships in plenty cases.
For an on-the-go shutterbug like me, Huawei's hardware and software do plenty justice in the camera department with Snapseed, since my DSLR is too inconvenient to carry and lacks software tricks for night.
I can share my algorithms with you, which are far better than HDR+ on Pixel or whatever fusion Apple made. I have filters like DayObjects, DayPeople, NightObjects, NightPeople, Contrasty, DarkPop, LightNightMode and ExtremeNightMode.
Here, I am sharing my P30 Lite tuned Snapseed algorithms as imgur albums (even though it would be useless on less neutral image processing phones):
However, it took me about 1000-1500 samples taken from my P30 Lite to tune it accordingly with Huawei's processing, so settings can differ for other phonemakers so it will be useless. I was able to do this with my DSLR photography experience and a good amount of experience with photo editing (and photography adequate eye vision for colours).
I suggest you try and implement them, if you like to give a true touchup to your photos, and tune it accordingly with whatever phonemaker algorithms you may have.
Indeed, but its something a very small percent of buyers (or Anandtech readers) would be interested it. Finding and debugging the right modded gcam build for your phone is technical and time consuming.
A true comparison between some of the most sought camera phones these days. The MTK Reno 3 uses an IMX686 while the Reno 3 Pro uses the older 586 but has OIS. The difference is largely from the sensor, not so much from the MTK 1000 inside. Overall, Apple and Huawei are the top camera phones with Apple unbeatable in Video recording while Huawei are masters of stills (especially indoor ones)
So, which phone camera is the best? The Conclusion is without conclusion! Are you afraid to have an opinion? HAVE AN OPINION, put it in the conclusion!
I think the conclusion is that there's no true best, because everyone falls down in one way or another. Although I do agree that there could be a short summary section that lists the conclusion in point form
Agreed. "Best" kind of depends on your interpretation. Is it Video? (review upcoming). Is it Daytime shots? Low-light shots? Ultrawide shots? Zoom shots?
Well, to be fair most shots are done in good lighting situations on a subject that is close. And they're done fairly quickly on Auto Mode. Basically, it has killed the segment of the point'n'shoot cameras. Trying to do any of the other tasks are actually more difficult for obvious reasons, which is why DSLR/Mirrorless will continue to be around for more serious photographers.
However, if you were careful and read the entire thing, you can read between the lines as to what Andrei (and basically Anandtech, and all the proper professionals) stand-point is on this subject. And it is that an "overall best" is mostly about getting good shots consistently, and that the phone should be able to take a good shot instantly and automatically. As alluded to above, it is not to replace your DSLR but your point'n'shoot. That means, although the best photos taken today is done through the LG V60 and the Sony Mk.II, those two can only achieve such breathtaking shots by playing with Manual Mode for a couple minutes for that single shot, then taking the RAW Image to then compile on a Pro Software of your choosing. That's not point'n'shoot methodology at all.
With that all said and done, which phone truly had the best overall camera? It was the Apple iPhone 11 Pro. It produced good shots consistently, and quickly, on Auto mode. As much as I hate to admit it, they've stepped things up with the iPhone Xr and on, so I need to give credit where credit is due. Not to mention they are unrivalled when it comes to video, going back as far as the iPhone 5S.
In the future, when Apple gets a little more serious with the sensor size, and zoom optics, it can compete in those heavier niche fields. Or maybe by that time, Huawei might improve their software/algorithms. Or Google might fire their Pixel division and employ more competent people. Or you know hell will freeze over.
PS: I forgot to mention that if you're not buying the "Manual Mode" excuse for the iPhone, well, there are actual high-quality accessories you can buy for the iPhone to get a stronger optical zoom, or wider view, or a Macro lens... or go bananas with a fish-eye/360' lens.
As @StormyParis said here, I would also love a similar comparison between the midrangers below $350 (Pixel 3A, P30 Lite (GMS), P40 Lite (non GMS), Samsung A51, Xiaomis and Realmes without and with Arnova or BSG GCam et al).
It helps that you put iPhone SE2 already here, so it can be a true midrange comparison for all the $200-300 phone buyers.
I've always been slightly puzzled why these reviews of phone cameras seem to never be concerned with RAW photos, but only the JPGs produced built-in software. I shoot almost everything on my phone in RAW and develop it later in Lightroom (on the phone as well). This gives me ridiculous advantage in image quality compared to what the manufacturer's software does, save for maybe ultra low light situations, which hardly ever produce anything usable anyway. Sure I'm now the only one who does this?
So, I'm wondering which of these cameras would actually be the best suited for RAW shooting. Especially since you included a reference Fujifilm camera now (great idea by the way!) and are shooting in RAW using it, would be both interesting and valuable to see how the phone sensors as well as optics go against a dedicated semi-professional camera when both are used in an optimal way. Is there any chance we might see such an experiment in the future? Nobody seems to be doing this, and oblique DXO Mark sensor scores don't quite cut it.
The article, for what is is though, is excellent =)
I did make a set of RAW pictures with the phones but didn't get into posting them. The biggest issue with it is that essentially no phone really enables RAW capture on all the modules so it drastically limits the usability of it.
I'll try to add in the shots to see if they're worth it.
Thanks. It will be interesting to see what the hardware can actually do. My Nokia (don't buy) gives far better RAW pictures even without any processing.
Yeah, I agree this is problematic, but it's also for that same reason something that would be interesting to see evaluated and compared. Thank you for the effort regardless!
While this is a 'technical' site and many commentators and perhaps even readers are prepared to mess with RAWs, most people just simply don't want to.
And you need to bear in mind that while someone may be technically skilled in one area, it doesn't mean they are in others. In fact, being technically skilled in one area may even make them more likely to want stuff that "just works" in areas outside their expertise. They might be interested in how that "just works" works and how different implementations compare, but they don't want to do any of the fiddling themselves, as they fiddle at work as it is.
IMO you'd have to be shooting everything with Gcam or LR because single shot DNG from <1" sensors gives you very limited PP potential. Then it would be down to the hardware, and compatibility of the (generally unofficial) software with the hardware.
Thanks Andrei, good and in-depth review! As others have mentioned already, including an actual camera with good sensor and optics provides the measurement stick so often missing from smartphone camera reviews. I have one request, which I know might be only of interest for some of us: please consider a comparison review of video capabilities also. I find myself using my smartphone a lot more for video than for still images, and we know that a phone's video capability is not always predicted by its still image quality.
Generally they have the best camera hardware out of all the flagships, as Sony uses it to showcase their Exmor divisions capabilities. However, it's done in a vacuum, where there's hardly any good software/algorithms taking advantage of it.
However, I've heard Sony has slowly been improving on this front. And starting with the Mark II Pro, it looks like the Sony Camera division is at the helm.
If anything, you can conclude the MkII has the best camera...when you spend minutes adjusting a single shot and later manipulating the RAW files on your Professional Application. But not when it comes to Auto Mode for a quick capture/point'n'shoot. And as you alluded to in this article, that is what matters on a phone, and the metric it should be compared with. I mean, if phones are to replace your regular camera, then it's performance in a quick capture is what matters. Whereas DSLR/Mirrorless is competing in a different category all-together. It would be like comparing an Ultrabook to a Full-sized Desktop HEDT.
Apparently, with the 1 series, they've revamped their approach. And the new II releases are I believe the first where Sony's camera/imaging department have finally become involved.
It feels like the early 2000's in here and I love it :) Well done. I was holding out from my Note8 and it looks like the new 10x S20 isn't worth the hype. Guess I will keep the 3 year old phone and get the new Canon R5 :)
You're right. But to be successful in the smartphone market: it is not about making the best phone, or even making the most practical phone. It is all about marketing.
That's why we shifted from phones built with Matte surfaced Aerospace-grade Polycarbonate to a gawdy Glossy fragile glass. And why we gave up ergonomic flat displays to annoying curved displays. Not to mention moving away from a Standard Aspect Ratio to some weird 19:9 ratio. Throw in the notch and camera hump while you're at it. Also we've removed User Accessible Batteries, Headphone Jack, FM Radio, IrDa blaster, LED notification, microSD slot and DualSIMs. They're looking to remove the Earpiece, the USB-C port, and maybe the physical buttons too. It seems eSIM might even replace NanoSIM, to make a completely portless "pebble-shaped" device.
On one hand that would be "cool". But after a day, the cool-factor will fade, and it would become more and more frustrating to use. And expensive. Everything is going to a paid-subscription model, including software support and updates.
...the few minority fighting against this can't win against these giant corporations, and the public are too blind, naive, to help them. So it seems more like an inevitability.
The camera bump is actually practical as bigger sensors need bigger lenses and hence a bump. The flexible plastic of later Nokias was also better than polycarbonate. You are quite right about everything else though.
I agree with you about the losses, but one massive gain has been in waterproofing. Over time I’ve dropped my phone in the bath, in the toilet, in the sea, left it out in the rain etc. Now with my waterproof phone I use it in the bath, at swimming pools, I’ve done some underwater filming at sea etc all without fear of damage (well, still a bit nervous). That’s a huge win in daily use. I agree glass backs are unnecessary. I have a wraparound phone case which adds bulk but it’s a trade off for having a large glass screen. Cases add customisability for use-cases and individuality, and people are free to not use cases if they want.
I do appreciate water resistance (do bear in mind that it IS NOT waterproof and that the sealants used to degrade), but I've never understood people who drop their phones in toilets or leave them out in the rain...
And swimming pools too, most don't allow cameras (and private swimming pools are rare in all the countries I've lived in).
It took fantastic photos (although the software did still need some work, it still hasn't been surpassed - we're only just getting close), was pocketable, and had lots of useful little features. And the OS wasn't bad, no matter what people say (although I believe Symbian was a pain with multi-core SoCs).
Huawei aren't far off in terms of sensor size. The issue is that a bigger sensor needs a bigger lens, and camera bump. Personally I would be quite happy but the fashion for thin hasn't quite died out yet.
Then you'd end up with a camera with a phone grafted on, like the Samsung Galaxy Camera (or worse, the Galaxy NX). Then you have weirdness like the Sony QX1 (or the other 'Smart Lenses' with fixed mounts), which is an APS-C sensor and lens mount that you... sorta clip a phone to.
It’s a minefield indeed but it needs doing. White male / female & dark black male / female. I say dark black because in terms of lighting many lighting processes / photography algorithms are unfortunately set up for white skin and struggle most with dark black skin. Phones should be able to deal with black skin as well as white skin, and really, any phone that can’t do this should be identified and called out. It would be a huge credit to Anandtech if they found a phone that neglected the needs of photographing black skin, especially in the current climate of increased attention to these issues.
I attended a BBC film lighting training course over 20 years ago, and while I’ve forgotten everything I learned on that course, one thing stuck with me - the trainer (white) talking at length about the need to adjust lighting to show black skin to its best effect. He made it very clear that sticking with default lighting when filming black people would be regarded as racism. He described many examples of professional TV and film work not lighting black actors or interviewees properly, and thus showing them as shadowy or menacing. This has always stayed with me as an example of institutional racism - many of the lighting technicians involved may not have been aware of what they were doing or known they were making mistakes, but the end effect is to degrade the black person on screen and privilege the white-skinned person. With modern better quality cameras the effect is less but it’s still often noticeable in modern media.
Sorry for the long ramble - I strongly consider this topic worth bringing up, especially in light of current events, and wanted to give you some background.
Part of that is just physics and dark-skinned people just being unlucky in that how we record images sometimes just doesn't work well with them. Now, we can control lighting to correct for this and the fact that your trainer lengthily talked about it suggests that the BBC at least are not institutionally racist in that regard.
It was and still is a bit of a joke with some of my friends who are black that they are 'invisible' in some dark photos. And we never seriously blamed the camera makers, as it was just in situations where we couldn't really control the lighting. And hey, at least dark-skinned people don't turn into lobsters in the sun.
Yeah this is such a huge issue with phone camera reviews in general.
A while back I bought Huawei on ATs recommendation for camera quality. What I realised almost straight away was that the old pixel 2 was vastly superior in capturing usable images of my family in all conditions.
I then tried a galaxy S10, same thing. Sold it within a month as pixel 2 took way better shots of my kids and friends.
Most of us aren't content creators or taking photos of buildings every other day. We are taking photos of our kids, Christmas with family or our friends drunken antics. 80% of the shots we take are of humans.
I use my phone for virtual meetings and virtual rooms. Any benchmarking on mic, noise cancellation, video quality, video stabilization, anti blurring ?
When it comes to details, the P30 Pro is very aggressively blurring details (I think it's the JPEG compressor and some "enhanced" edge detection, as RAW looks better, but the macro cannot be used with RAW), often destroying the motive.
Not much has changed. 64MP is still genuinely unusable. At 50% mag (16MP) under optimal conditions, the LG and Samsung were somewhat better than the previous sample showed, regardless, the original conclusion stands, I repeat, 64MP is still genuinely unusable. BTW you were the clear troll before the release of this article.
"Not much has changed. 64MP is still genuinely unusable. At 50% mag (16MP) under optimal conditions, the LG and Samsung were somewhat better than the previous sample showed, regardless, the original conclusion stands, I repeat, 64MP is still genuinely unusable. BTW you were the clear troll before the release of this article"
Comment the pictures i posted, don't cherry pick what you answer.
I didn't go though all the comments. I've seen the picture and, for the final time: 64MP IS STILL GENUINELY UNUSABLE. Just because the 24MP Fuji's unusable upscaled to 64MP or higher doesn't make 64MP quad bayer any more usable. Also, don't cherry pick what you screenclip, there are some places across the scene where the Fuji was notably better, where quad bayer interpolation was very apparent, and that made me suspect a focusing issue or a skewed focal plane. I also don't know the parameters of the Fuji shots, shooting any kit lens wide open will not paint an ILC in good light.
1. The pic is vs 12MP of S20, not just vs Fuji. And it blows it away out of the water in the detail department.
2. The pic has MORE details vs the Fuji, also and not just more, SIGNIFICANTLY more.
3. Even if we count on the Fuji pic as anomaly, the difference in detail vs the 12MP shot of Samsung, and ANY other picture from the review is insane, when we talked before we talked about DETAILS/SHARPNESS not about dynamic range, low light performance, colors, contrast or anything else, we all know that 64MP will have less dynamic range, and other issue, but the point was, that you saying that 64MP is useless/gimmick, and you couldn't be more wrong, in bright daylight this new sensors are amazing, and the 64MP on the S20 is not quad bayer AFAIK, so next time when you claim BS, get ready to be corrected.
1. LMFAO. Take your strawman somewhere else. I already said S20's 12MP pipeline is severely flawed, that the 64MP output with a straight downsample to 16MP would be sharper. That was last time. 2. Generally more, but not always significant. There's great variance of the 64MP output even within a single scene. While the first scene could largely be attributed to focusing issues( clear because the LG focused near infinity while the Samsung focused near MFD), a lot of variation in other scenes don't resemble focusing issues. The output quality is unstable and unpredictable. In general, The LG's 64MP mode outperforms the Samsung in terms of detail. And again, if the Fuji was shot wide open with a kit lens, even a clear advantage really doesn't prove much. 3. Judging from the characteristics of the artifacts of Samsung's 64MP output, I say it looks like quad bayer, e.g. 2nd sample right above the sewer duct, the waxiness of the bricks and the horizontal smearing that clearly result in *less* resolution than the 24MP Fuji, as evident by the patches of lichen being smeared by the Samsung while more individual patches are distinguishable from the Fuji output. I say output from Nokia 808, known bayer, wouldn't exhibit that sort of texture degradation. I said that I won't repeat myself, so I'll rephrase it for you: the 64MP mode of Samsung's S20 series has UNUSABLE TEXTURE at native resolution. It's usable at 16MP, probably even 24MP, NOT AT 64MP, therefore it's A GIMMICK, waste of storage space.
This beats dpreview in smartphone camera reviews. I appreciate the work here but wouldn't be ideal if you have a Studio setup like dpreview has. There will be less need for travel, photos can be used to compare cameras of several generations, more scientific low light tests, and the most important, the sharpness/detail test.
Studios do not work for smartphones because the quality of the shot is highly dependant on what the processing decides to do and that's going to be wildly scenario based. It works fine on regular cameras because they don't change their capture behaviour. And whilst sure it would at least cover the sharpness/detail aspect I don't think that's the main aspect of what makes a smartphone camera good or bad.
Well the regular cameras do vary in their JPEG output to get the processing choices made by the manufacturer. They shoot RAW though for true test of the hardware (noise, sharpness). Flagship smartphones usually have RAW shooting enabled, you might want to look into that. Sharpness/detail is interesting to test for since it is the reason why these smartphones are increasing camera sensor sizes despite the misleading Megapixel counts. Finally, the studio I'm referring to is simply a wall with flat objects pasted on it and a good, even lighting. You can refer to dpreview.com studio tool.
The studio I refer to is a simply a wall with flat, detailed objects on it and of course, good lighting. Can be done in any house with good space or wall.
Andrei, one question. im more than aware that you are professional of highest order, but anyway, are the lenses on this smartphones trougly cleaned before the shooting? sometimes is hard to see if the lenses are smudged if you don't check at angle/direct light, and even very small amounts can make flaring much worse.
Good question, and thanks Andrei for answering! I habitually clean the lenses of my phone with a soft microfiber cloth wetted with 70% isopropyl alcohol if I anticipate taking any picture or video. However, I have witnessed some people expecting radar-like penetration of dust or smudge on their phone lenses (Those pictures are so blurry! Did you clean your lens? No! Should I?)
Is that also true for the harder glass that covers the lenses and using dilute alcohol (with significant water content)? I was told that the oleophobic coating is not damaged by 70% or 50% alcohol, but to stay away from anything with higher alcohol content. I'd like to do some reading on this, and would appreciate any link - thanks! I completely agree and knew that it's a bad idea to clean the screen with even dilute alcohol, as that will deteriorate the oleophobic coating of the screen.
You can buy oleophobic liquids to put on your phone and they do work quite well. I'm not sure if they are as good as the factory-applied coatings though.
And yes, you should still be careful with alcohol wipes. An article on this would be very interesting (perhaps even going into the science of it?)
Excellent idea to finally reference phone cameras to something that takes proper pictures. Now, the X-T30 is truly excellent and modern camera. Because physics, no phone will match it unless same size sensor is used - more or less. As an owner original Canon 1D from 2001 with 4 Mega Pixel sensor, I can tell you that no phone can match it at any level still. People have no clue and marketing does the rest.
That's exactly why having a "gold standard" in any comparison puts the achievements or let-downs in perspective. I am, however, still amazed just how good the pictures and videos by many of today's smartphones already are.
I see the issue with the nomenclature here...it's not "nonabayer" that's the exception here, it's "quadbayer"...Sony should have called it "quadrabayer".
I love these in depth comparisons, especially because you focus on true to life shots with a reference camera as a base for comparison. I do however think that the Pixel 4 can produce better results in daytime if you use Night Sight. Detail retention and sometimes the white balance will improve a lot.
If Anand did this article he would've used comparison tables for sensors/lenses/SoC DSP feature sets with OS version differences (rather than a simplistic, click it yourself and here's what I think about each phone format) and discussed/surmised the DSP workflows at play, why it made a particular camera perform better. Apple marketing hinted at the processes A13 included, and should've been at least mentioned in the previous iPhone 8/iPhone SE comparison. Similarly, GCam's processes can be compared.
Anand's style is also to eliminate the SoC variable in the S20+/S20U, because he would've done a Exynos vs Snapdragon explainer/backgrounder comparison before he set out to test individual product design variations. A more strategic reviewer will sort this out rather present it as a "I'm not sure if" statement in the article, then skip to the battery of apples and oranges comparisons. I guess that's why Anand is hired by Apple then.
Barring any surprises, the video quality comparison should nicely correlate with pixel sizes. Still hope for Andrei to live up to his Anandtech creds by discussing microlens/binning advantages and tradeoffs over monolithic pixels, and video DSP designs. I suspect Apple has a leg up since their videos exhibit less jitter (frame rate drifting) and tell-tale signs of high frame-rate noise reduction.
Before we repeat another rose-coloured glassed discussion of what Anand did or didn't do I would kindly remind what the last review of his 7 years ago contained in terms of camera evaluation:
I would generally suggest reading the whole thing and contrasting that to either the iPhone 11 or S20 reviews.
> and discussed/surmised the DSP workflows at play, why it made a particular camera perform better.
I'm not qualified to talk about such things and neither would Anand have been. In fact, *nobody* is qualified to talk about these specifics, except the very engineers who designed the camera pipelines - each different for each vendor. Talking about Apple's high-level processes is pointless if we cannot put it into context of what other vendors are doing.
Similarly SoC DSP features sets as well as OS' are completely irrelevant to the discussion because no vendor actually discloses which features are being used and which aren't. It's a context-less presentation of incomplete information - I prefer to simply focus on the end result because that is what matters.
> Anand's style is also to eliminate the SoC variable in the S20+/S20U
It was pointless to repeat the discussion with the Exynos S20U here as the article is already bloated, and the comparison focuses on the different vendors and flagships. Again what matters in the end is that results *still* remain wildly different between the Samsung phones, the detailed analysis you could read the aforementioned review months ago.
> Still hope for Andrei to live up to his Anandtech creds by discussing microlens/binning advantages and tradeoffs over monolithic pixels, and video DSP designs.
We've discussed these things over dozens of articles and reviews over the last years, especially in the last 2 years where these sensors have become popular.
> I guess that's why Anand is hired by Apple then.
Apple sure dodged a bullet when they showed the same interest with me.
I'm sorry I don't live up to your high standards, I might suggest reading other reviewers who invest more time and effort than I did here. Otherwise comments like these are akin to simply taking the piss on the time & effort it takes to actually publish a piece like this.
The point here is not to attack or provoke a defense of what is there, but how things might develop. Thanks for linking to Anand's piece, which illuminates some things I refer to. Brian Klug was quite a force on his own, but it showed even in this non-co-authored article that they were working as a team rather than their respective columns. And Anand clearly revealed his methodologies and reasoning process, so that even if he wasn't "qualified", he made valid observations others would have not.
I would've clicked on a like button or donate button towards your efforts rather than participate in a match of showering of praise, but I felt constructive criticism might be more useful in the comment section. Sorry you took it as pissing on your work or a form of discrediting.
Andrei's work here more than matches the quality standard set by Anand before he left, and in particular the camera reviews in their consistency and thoroughness go beyond the scope of any similar work by Anand while he was here.
If you can't see that by simply reading the content...you might not be capable of appreciating how high the quality bar has been maintained at Anandtech for years, and what a privilege it is to enjoy it.
Not sure what you're trying to say here, and how any of that would matter; in the end, I want to know which smartphone delivers the best image quality. And, while I certainly am curious how that's done, the result comes first and foremost. Anand did write many good articles, but he couldn't discuss or explain technical details that no manufacturer shares with anyone outside, and neither can Andrei.
If Anand did this article he would've used comparison tables for sensors/lenses/SoC DSP feature sets with OS version differences (rather than a simplistic, click it yourself and here's what I think about each phone format) and discussed/surmised the DSP workflows at play, why it made a particular camera perform better. Apple marketing hinted at the processes A13 included, and should've been at least mentioned in the previous iPhone 8/iPhone SE comparison. Similarly, GCam's processes can be compared.
WOW, how rude, do you even know what this article is? do you know the time and resources needed to do such in depth article? shame on you.
To be fair, "the resources" required are just the phones (which they have for free) the time? One afternoon + 1 evening out and 1 day collating the pictures?
I agree that its a good article but lets not overstate the amount of "effort" this took ok?
Many of these photos, for snapshots, match the Fuji for overall pleasantness.
I struggled, at normal resolution and daylight to see a difference that mattered to me.
Color science, the Apple seems to be most pleasing. Undoubtedly due to the fact Apple has hired the best color science engineers in the world.
However, the image of the river with the bridge over it (Luxemburg sign) - there was a difference. At a minimum, the iPhone (badly) moired and the Samsung. The Fuji looked very good, and the detail in the actual bridge existed. The Apple and Samsung smushed the detail in moire.
I'd be curious if the Fuji was used in full auto mode, or were you selectively choosing the aperture to ensure the lens was in its sweet spot? (Typically stopped down one or two notches.)
LG hdr on vs hdr auto has a very big different processing. The exif also shows that clearly. Lg night mode by default prefer to go with natural dark output, but you can boost it further
Why did you not include the Sony Experia 1 Mark II in testing or if you couldn't get your hands on the Mark II, which I've seen on numerous other sites, al least include the Experia 1.
How does the growth in MP/sensor size/computational photography impact system requirements in terms of higher memory, compute etc.? Would love to learn any thumb rules that you know in terms of designing camera subsystems here that might explain some of the performance differences here!! Also, does will 5G matter here?
Total anandatech scrApple sellout article ... Everybody know dat Huawei has the best photography And u hetre biasing on Huawei .. anandatech is now apples bitch running from their monies.. that's for sure ............ they can't even upgrade the look of the website..
Well if it isn't Ethos the Huawei troll, haven't seen you around here for more than a year. Take your Huawei rainbow farts elsewhere, this site is for grownups.
Although Anandtech is a great place for articles and info, they've ALWAYS leaned slightly towards Apple. You must be young as I can recall Anand himself going to work for Apple.
They are the most underrated thing about Snapseed, I feel. But then you could say the same about pro manual mode, which most folks never even touch on phones.
The custom filters make the photos no less than if they came from a flagship. The flagships simply take your money for the auto mode for the most part.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
130 Comments
Back to Article
skavi - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
holy shit, this is amazing. The reference camera is such a great idea. Thanks for putting this together; it must have taken forever.beginner99 - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Yeah the reference camera, which isn't even a very special one, shows just how pathetic these phone camera are. I have a 10 year old canon slr. I don't even know megapixels but we all know they don't really matter that much. sensor size and optics is far more important. Yeah it's an unfair comparison but the difference is such gigantic were the 10 year old slr is just so much better.BedfordTim - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Even expensive lenses are down to about 50% contrast at 3.5um which explains why the phone pictures are either lacking in detail or artificially sharpened when you look closely.Still as they say, the best camera is the one you have with you.
ergo98 - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
This is quite a hot take.Firstly, the reference camera is a brand new model of a $900 USD camera It is certainly a WORLD better than your old Canon SLR. Even over the past 3 years, Nikon and Fuji had made huge strides in the quality of their sensors.
Speaking of which, the iPhone 11 is certainly a lot better than your Canon as well. I have a number of SLRs, including Nikons and Canons, and until recently Canons had horrendous dynamic range (most Canons just a few years old had 6 stops of DR. The iPhone 11 has 11 stops, which coincidentally bests a number of current model SLRs).
Secondly, saying that the reference shows "how pathetic" phone cameras are is bizarre if you've actually looked at the pictures. There are a number where it would be hard pressed to say what camera was "special", and a number where I'd hardly call the Fujis picture the winner.
s.yu - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Fuji's sensors are certainly not known for performance, especially DR. Then again Canon's neither, but 10 years ago that would probably have been FF, so that somewhat bridges the gap.Andrei Frumusanu - Sunday, June 21, 2020 - link
Huh? Fuji's sensors are best in class. It's competing with FF sensors, just 1 stop short of the best; https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htms.yu - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
Well, for years photographers have used PS and LR to develop Fuji files and reached the opposite conclusion, and determined that Fuji's main advantage is their JPG filters. There was also discussion about "fake ISO" in which Fuji's ISO numbers are artificially boosted by about half or was it 2/3rds of a stop, I don't know how this particular measurement is influenced by those factors. Also, if you look at base ISO, Fuji's XT-3 has 2/3 stop less DR than the equivalent Sony (A6600) because its base ISO is higher.Andrei Frumusanu - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
The latest sensor is barely one and a half years old so it doesn't really matter whats years long discussions say. Capture One also has much better handling of the raw files than the Adobe apps which might be related to what you're reading.There's also a noise vs ISO measurements; https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm
The Fuji is ahead of the A6600 save for 400-600 where the dual gain kicks in later for the Fuji.
s.yu - Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - link
That's suggesting that Fuji had reason to stop inflating those numbers, but nothing points to that otherwise.There's another way to read into this, the XE1, which was often accused of inflating ISO, had a stop lower DR at base, according to that site, than an old Sony, the a6000, while this exact difference is maintained between a6600 and XT3. In the mean time, Fuji's pipeline has apparently stayed the same and continues to use Sony sensors.
With nearly a stop less base ISO to work with it's handicapped anyhow, it would make news if the Fuji at ISO200 matches Sony's DR at ISO100. I don't even know why you're trying to refute this.
s.yu - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
Or actually, if you look at it the other way, that they both actually start at ISO100, but Fuji's ISO number on the chart was indeed inflated by 2/3rds of a stop, then everything adds up too.su2san - Saturday, August 1, 2020 - link
Mobile phone camera presently innovating. these days people are capturing special moment with mobile camera only . <a href="https://www.uaetechnician.com/mobile-repair-servic... repair dubai </a>will give you all supportive software for best quality picture.
Byte - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Dont know what you’re looking at. I have a few ip11 vs the slr and flip back and forth. Sometimes i cant even tell which is which they are so close.RandomUsername3245 - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
There is so much R&D put into an iPhone (or other camera phone sensor, since they almost all come from Sony) versus a 10 year old Canon that there is really no comparison. Sure, phones have small pixels, but they are also back-side illuminated for improved sensitivity / fill factor, have better quantum efficiency, have *much* lower read noise due to correlated double sampling, and lower dark current as well.Phone cameras have pretty amazing multi-element lenses that are competitive f/#'s (1.8 for the main camera). The lenses can be smaller due to the smaller pixels, and smaller lenses can be molded with exotic shapes that are not affordable in SLRs (since they would require large aspheric elements).
chenxiaolong - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Thanks for the article! This is awesome.(By the way, the first iPhone SE picture on page 5 links to https://images.anandtech.com/galleries/7637/iPhone... which returns HTTP 404)
Ryan Smith - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Thanks! Fixed.http://images.anandtech.com/galleries/7637/iPhoneS...
Trackster11230 - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Same for the OnePlus 8 0.5x W caterpillar photo on page 4 :)https://images.anandtech.com/galleries/7623/OP8_IM...
Andrei Frumusanu - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
I removed that link, it actually didn't have a ultra-wide capture there.jaju123 - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Thanks Andrei. Is there any plan on doing a full OP8 Pro review?Andrei Frumusanu - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Yes, I already did all the testing a few weeks ago and never got to write it up due to the backlog of work. It's a great phone, recommend it.PeterCollier - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
I would be interested in seeing how the new Moto flagship stacks up.Andrei Frumusanu - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Unfortunately it's unlikely we'll get to test the new Moto.ikjadoon - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Ryan Smith: this stunningly thorough and well-organized article needs to be awarded an Anandtech Anthology title. This title simply undersells the depth of content here by Andrei F. I'll be forever linking this article.I agree with skavi: having the reference camera (US $1300 for those curious, body + 18-55 kit lens) seals the deal here.
And, completely off-topic: you gotta love Fujifilm's X-Trans colors. Sure, you'll want a ~20mm equivalent lens for wide-angle shots, but I'm impressed at how much distance the X-T30 created even the best-of-the-best 2020 mobile cameras (esp. at night & with any zoom).
philehidiot - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Agree, I haven't looked through all of it yet as I've just seen it whilst cooking (an old MacBook Air TN screen isn't exactly ideal for this) but the sheer scale, depth of analysis and complexity here is just astonishing.I must say one thing.... I hate you Andrei. I'm sorry to say it. I'd JUST accepted that I no longer needed a dedicated camera and that a phone was good enough. Then you go and do this to me... when you're just looking at phone shots and comparing between phones, you don't notice so much the poor quality, Then some git puts a proper camera in the mix and you become acutely aware of just how poor these phone cameras are.
I say I hate you, but it's really my bank manager who has the problem.
The point I think this article also makes quite profoundly is that there is NO point in spending £1400 on an amazing phone for it's camera system. You'd be far better off buying a cheapish iPhone SE or something similar for decent phone performance and spending the rest on a proper camera. There's no justification for these expensive phone cameras aside from portability.
The problem is that when I have an SLR or similar, I become obsessive. I spend all of my time out and about looking through the lens and it makes me hard to be with as well as meaning I miss a lot of what is going on. I end up not taking the camera out in order to avoid that behaviour.
Additionally, when you have time and have recovered from this monster of an article, I'd really love to see the Oneplus 8/8 pro reviews. I simply find it impossible to trust the majority of tech reviews these days... especially when they throw out a fluke decent 100x zoom image from the Samsung S20 superdoopdoop phone and say it's stunning and representative of real world performance. It makes me cringe. Additionally, I'm never sure with Samsung if they're sending reviewers in Europe the Snapdragon model when consumers are getting Samsung's home baked SoC.
Honestly, is it time to increase Anandtech's resources? Would the increase in traffic from covering more models of phone sooner justify another reviewer or indeed an assistant reviewer who didn't have to come up with new ways of doing things but just followed the established models?
tl;dr - I think my painkillers have kicked in and I'm raaaambling.
Andrei Frumusanu - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
> Additionally, when you have time and have recovered from this monster of an article, I'd really love to see the Oneplus 8/8 pro reviewsI will get to those reviews in due time (there's a lack of it), the TL;DR is that they're both great phones and the 8Pro is my favourite flagship this year, with only the S20+ as a second option.
Glaurung - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Get a waist level viewfinder for your dedicated camera, and you'll feel less like you're putting the camera between yourself and the world. Instead of constantly looking at the back of the camera or through a lens, you're glancing down to check the framing before clicking the shutter, and then looking back up at your subject.slothlovechunk - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
If you're doing static shots like this, the Pixel should really be using Night Sight Mode always. It is actually impressive, and because it counts on hand movement, it can probably out resolve any cell phone optics as it's sampling from different parts of the lens for the same parts of the image. Other than night sight, yeah, the pixel is pretty tame compared to these other cameras.Sharma_Ji - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
No inclusion of oppo flagships x2 & pro, i can bet oppo/realme's HDR algorithm is one of the best , if not the best.And also video is not tested, their video stabilization algo. Is best too.
Andrei Frumusanu - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
I didn't have one.bernstein - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
absolutely awesome article.it might be worth updating this article from time to time with new phones (although it might be hard to replicate the weather conditions (esp. as solar inclination/intensity changes throughout the year))
s.yu - Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - link
It's an Anandtech specialty that each shootout is extensive and images are never recycled.StormyParis - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Thanks for a detailed balanced and interesting head-to-head.But, for me and the people around me, this increasingly misses the point: low- and mid-range phones have gotten so good that, off the top of my head, of the 20 people closer to me only 1 still buys flagships, and he's wavering. For the overwhelming majority of people, the issue with pictures is not the hardware, not the software, but the wetware. I had a guy pester me about the best cheap cameraphone... turns out he doesn't know what HDR and macro are.
I'd be interested in a comparison across budget lines (something I'm regularly doing on GSMArena, but that's in-lab shots) and across years, to know *if* paying more is worth it, before I start agonizing about which expensive phone to get.
bernstein - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
while true, i doubt this would be feasible. while there are just a few flagships there are a gazillion mid- & low-range phones.also, while cheaper sticker price wise, i doubt that they're that much cheaper overall. i tend to keep my iphone's 2-4 years at which point i sell them for around $250-500. that amounts to ~$15-20/month, which is about the same as my unlimited plan.
sure you can buy a sub $500 phone and keep it 2-4 years too, but if you want it to be as secure as possible (get current os releases) you have to be VERY careful which one to buy... fairphone and the iphone se come to mind, but not much else.
StormyParis - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
1- some low and mid-rangers sell a lot more than others. I'd think Redmi Note, Galaxy Axx, probably Oppo A9.2- It seems nowadays I'm keeping my $200 phones 3 years-ish too, so that works out to $6/mo. Are you counting AppleCare too ? I wouldn't leave a $1k phone uninsured, especially one with parts as expensive as Apple's (a XIaomi's battery and screen are $15each, and DIYable).
3- VERY careful indeed. As in: not the same as Jeff "dick pics and biz secrets" Bezos (an iPhone), and not the one that fell to the biggest ever Mobile malware campaign (iPhones, xCodeGhost) or has the cheapest open-*market price for hacks (iPhone).
My goal was not to launch the "is Apple worth the premium risk and constraints" debate, but I'm game anytime. I'm more interested in a both more general and more specific "are flagships worth it, picture-wise" article. Preferrably facts-based.
Speedfriend - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
I don't know if it is the same in the US but in the UK iPhone trade in price have collapsed. A friend wanted to upgrade his year old XS Max 512 to get an 11 for the camera. He paid 1450 for the XS Max and the value now is 450, £1000 fall in 1 year.The release of the SE has collapsed the prices of older iPhone too
TheGodFatherOfAnons - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Pixel 3A, P30 Lite (GMS), P40 Lite (non GMS), Samsung A51, Xiaomis and Realmes without and with Arnova or BSG GCam are the kind of true midrange phones that could be chosen.The Huawei Lite versions of flagships are highly optimised, very akin to the Pixel 3A budget series for long now (people like their P10 Lite and P20 Lite too), which also have their revered Night Shot.
I am able to do astrophotography with my P30 Lite, and I cannot think of a single phone under sub $300 that can do it this well, including Pixels. My custom one-click Snapseed filters make any pictures equivalent to and even untouchable for flagships in plenty cases.
For an on-the-go shutterbug like me, Huawei's hardware and software do plenty justice in the camera department with Snapseed, since my DSLR is too inconvenient to carry and lacks software tricks for night.
iphonebestgamephone - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Those are some godly snapseed filters.TheGodFatherOfAnons - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
I can share my algorithms with you, which are far better than HDR+ on Pixel or whatever fusion Apple made. I have filters like DayObjects, DayPeople, NightObjects, NightPeople, Contrasty, DarkPop, LightNightMode and ExtremeNightMode.Here, I am sharing my P30 Lite tuned Snapseed algorithms as imgur albums (even though it would be useless on less neutral image processing phones):
DayObjects: https://imgur.com/a/3c0k6a0
DayPeople: https://imgur.com/a/tl9V2eD
NightObjects: https://imgur.com/a/fvwkOHr
NightPeople: https://imgur.com/a/lyP4r1U
Contrasty: https://imgur.com/a/coz3ECP
LightNightMode: https://imgur.com/a/DyfA6k5
ExtremeNightMode: https://imgur.com/a/5Un20xs
However, it took me about 1000-1500 samples taken from my P30 Lite to tune it accordingly with Huawei's processing, so settings can differ for other phonemakers so it will be useless. I was able to do this with my DSLR photography experience and a good amount of experience with photo editing (and photography adequate eye vision for colours).
iphonebestgamephone - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Ah the filters remind me of the various xmls for gcam. Denoise, detail, people, etc.TheGodFatherOfAnons - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
I hope you can credibly call them "godly" now :PI suggest you try and implement them, if you like to give a true touchup to your photos, and tune it accordingly with whatever phonemaker algorithms you may have.
iphonebestgamephone - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Yeah those pics do look good, though ill have to make my own filters for my op7p. I currently use gcam with like 10 or so xmls.StormyParis - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Also, something popular for some Chinese phones is to use a gCam port instead of the native app. Your mileage will vary.brucethemoose - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Indeed, but its something a very small percent of buyers (or Anandtech readers) would be interested it. Finding and debugging the right modded gcam build for your phone is technical and time consuming.ingwe - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Incredible article and sooooo much work went into this. Thanks for producing really great content like this!tkSteveFOX - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
A true comparison between some of the most sought camera phones these days.The MTK Reno 3 uses an IMX686 while the Reno 3 Pro uses the older 586 but has OIS.
The difference is largely from the sensor, not so much from the MTK 1000 inside.
Overall, Apple and Huawei are the top camera phones with Apple unbeatable in Video recording while Huawei are masters of stills (especially indoor ones)
Peskarik - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
So, which phone camera is the best? The Conclusion is without conclusion! Are you afraid to have an opinion? HAVE AN OPINION, put it in the conclusion!Retycint - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
I think the conclusion is that there's no true best, because everyone falls down in one way or another. Although I do agree that there could be a short summary section that lists the conclusion in point formKangal - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Agreed."Best" kind of depends on your interpretation. Is it Video? (review upcoming). Is it Daytime shots? Low-light shots? Ultrawide shots? Zoom shots?
Well, to be fair most shots are done in good lighting situations on a subject that is close. And they're done fairly quickly on Auto Mode. Basically, it has killed the segment of the point'n'shoot cameras. Trying to do any of the other tasks are actually more difficult for obvious reasons, which is why DSLR/Mirrorless will continue to be around for more serious photographers.
However, if you were careful and read the entire thing, you can read between the lines as to what Andrei (and basically Anandtech, and all the proper professionals) stand-point is on this subject. And it is that an "overall best" is mostly about getting good shots consistently, and that the phone should be able to take a good shot instantly and automatically. As alluded to above, it is not to replace your DSLR but your point'n'shoot. That means, although the best photos taken today is done through the LG V60 and the Sony Mk.II, those two can only achieve such breathtaking shots by playing with Manual Mode for a couple minutes for that single shot, then taking the RAW Image to then compile on a Pro Software of your choosing. That's not point'n'shoot methodology at all.
With that all said and done, which phone truly had the best overall camera?
It was the Apple iPhone 11 Pro. It produced good shots consistently, and quickly, on Auto mode. As much as I hate to admit it, they've stepped things up with the iPhone Xr and on, so I need to give credit where credit is due. Not to mention they are unrivalled when it comes to video, going back as far as the iPhone 5S.
In the future, when Apple gets a little more serious with the sensor size, and zoom optics, it can compete in those heavier niche fields. Or maybe by that time, Huawei might improve their software/algorithms. Or Google might fire their Pixel division and employ more competent people. Or you know hell will freeze over.
PS: I forgot to mention that if you're not buying the "Manual Mode" excuse for the iPhone, well, there are actual high-quality accessories you can buy for the iPhone to get a stronger optical zoom, or wider view, or a Macro lens... or go bananas with a fish-eye/360' lens.
TheGodFatherOfAnons - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
As @StormyParis said here, I would also love a similar comparison between the midrangers below $350 (Pixel 3A, P30 Lite (GMS), P40 Lite (non GMS), Samsung A51, Xiaomis and Realmes without and with Arnova or BSG GCam et al).It helps that you put iPhone SE2 already here, so it can be a true midrange comparison for all the $200-300 phone buyers.
u/andreif, you are a good man, <3 from India
Lilja - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
I've always been slightly puzzled why these reviews of phone cameras seem to never be concerned with RAW photos, but only the JPGs produced built-in software. I shoot almost everything on my phone in RAW and develop it later in Lightroom (on the phone as well). This gives me ridiculous advantage in image quality compared to what the manufacturer's software does, save for maybe ultra low light situations, which hardly ever produce anything usable anyway. Sure I'm now the only one who does this?So, I'm wondering which of these cameras would actually be the best suited for RAW shooting. Especially since you included a reference Fujifilm camera now (great idea by the way!) and are shooting in RAW using it, would be both interesting and valuable to see how the phone sensors as well as optics go against a dedicated semi-professional camera when both are used in an optimal way. Is there any chance we might see such an experiment in the future? Nobody seems to be doing this, and oblique DXO Mark sensor scores don't quite cut it.
The article, for what is is though, is excellent =)
BedfordTim - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
I would agree if only for curiosity value.StormyParis - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
0.01% of users shoot in RAW, so reviews that take into account the compression algorithms are way more useful to way more people.Andrei Frumusanu - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
I did make a set of RAW pictures with the phones but didn't get into posting them. The biggest issue with it is that essentially no phone really enables RAW capture on all the modules so it drastically limits the usability of it.I'll try to add in the shots to see if they're worth it.
BedfordTim - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Thanks. It will be interesting to see what the hardware can actually do. My Nokia (don't buy) gives far better RAW pictures even without any processing.Lilja - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Yeah, I agree this is problematic, but it's also for that same reason something that would be interesting to see evaluated and compared. Thank you for the effort regardless!Tams80 - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
While this is a 'technical' site and many commentators and perhaps even readers are prepared to mess with RAWs, most people just simply don't want to.And you need to bear in mind that while someone may be technically skilled in one area, it doesn't mean they are in others. In fact, being technically skilled in one area may even make them more likely to want stuff that "just works" in areas outside their expertise. They might be interested in how that "just works" works and how different implementations compare, but they don't want to do any of the fiddling themselves, as they fiddle at work as it is.
s.yu - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
IMO you'd have to be shooting everything with Gcam or LR because single shot DNG from <1" sensors gives you very limited PP potential. Then it would be down to the hardware, and compatibility of the (generally unofficial) software with the hardware.NICOXIS - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Nice review! There so much so data lol I wish there was a summary table or some kind of rating system for easier comparison.eastcoast_pete - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Thanks Andrei, good and in-depth review! As others have mentioned already, including an actual camera with good sensor and optics provides the measurement stick so often missing from smartphone camera reviews. I have one request, which I know might be only of interest for some of us: please consider a comparison review of video capabilities also. I find myself using my smartphone a lot more for video than for still images, and we know that a phone's video capability is not always predicted by its still image quality.Andrei Frumusanu - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
I'll have to think about the format of a video comparison, it's not as easy.eastcoast_pete - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Thanks for considering it!plonk420 - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
heh, all i care about is RAW for Lightroom ...and AV1 playback in hardwareUsernameString - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Speaking of cameras, any thoughts on the Sony Xperia 1 II?Andrei Frumusanu - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
I don't have one yet. They don't have a good track record though.Kangal - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Generally they have the best camera hardware out of all the flagships, as Sony uses it to showcase their Exmor divisions capabilities. However, it's done in a vacuum, where there's hardly any good software/algorithms taking advantage of it.However, I've heard Sony has slowly been improving on this front. And starting with the Mark II Pro, it looks like the Sony Camera division is at the helm.
If anything, you can conclude the MkII has the best camera...when you spend minutes adjusting a single shot and later manipulating the RAW files on your Professional Application. But not when it comes to Auto Mode for a quick capture/point'n'shoot. And as you alluded to in this article, that is what matters on a phone, and the metric it should be compared with. I mean, if phones are to replace your regular camera, then it's performance in a quick capture is what matters. Whereas DSLR/Mirrorless is competing in a different category all-together. It would be like comparing an Ultrabook to a Full-sized Desktop HEDT.
s.yu - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
I'll be getting one and again porting Gcam, not bothering with the stock except for the quickest snaps.Tams80 - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Apparently, with the 1 series, they've revamped their approach.And the new II releases are I believe the first where Sony's camera/imaging department have finally become involved.
bldr - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
It feels like the early 2000's in here and I love it :)Well done. I was holding out from my Note8 and it looks like the new 10x S20 isn't worth the hype.
Guess I will keep the 3 year old phone and get the new Canon R5 :)
Thanks again, excellent write-up
vFunct - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
Really wish smartphones just had one camera with a pocketable 1" sensor instead of a lot of smaller sensors.Kangal - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
You're right.But to be successful in the smartphone market: it is not about making the best phone, or even making the most practical phone. It is all about marketing.
That's why we shifted from phones built with Matte surfaced Aerospace-grade Polycarbonate to a gawdy Glossy fragile glass. And why we gave up ergonomic flat displays to annoying curved displays. Not to mention moving away from a Standard Aspect Ratio to some weird 19:9 ratio. Throw in the notch and camera hump while you're at it. Also we've removed User Accessible Batteries, Headphone Jack, FM Radio, IrDa blaster, LED notification, microSD slot and DualSIMs. They're looking to remove the Earpiece, the USB-C port, and maybe the physical buttons too. It seems eSIM might even replace NanoSIM, to make a completely portless "pebble-shaped" device.
On one hand that would be "cool". But after a day, the cool-factor will fade, and it would become more and more frustrating to use. And expensive. Everything is going to a paid-subscription model, including software support and updates.
...the few minority fighting against this can't win against these giant corporations, and the public are too blind, naive, to help them. So it seems more like an inevitability.
BedfordTim - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
The camera bump is actually practical as bigger sensors need bigger lenses and hence a bump. The flexible plastic of later Nokias was also better than polycarbonate. You are quite right about everything else though.Tomatotech - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
I agree with you about the losses, but one massive gain has been in waterproofing. Over time I’ve dropped my phone in the bath, in the toilet, in the sea, left it out in the rain etc. Now with my waterproof phone I use it in the bath, at swimming pools, I’ve done some underwater filming at sea etc all without fear of damage (well, still a bit nervous). That’s a huge win in daily use. I agree glass backs are unnecessary. I have a wraparound phone case which adds bulk but it’s a trade off for having a large glass screen. Cases add customisability for use-cases and individuality, and people are free to not use cases if they want.Tams80 - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
I do appreciate water resistance (do bear in mind that it IS NOT waterproof and that the sealants used to degrade), but I've never understood people who drop their phones in toilets or leave them out in the rain...And swimming pools too, most don't allow cameras (and private swimming pools are rare in all the countries I've lived in).
Tams80 - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
I miss my Nokia 808 PureView too.It took fantastic photos (although the software did still need some work, it still hasn't been surpassed - we're only just getting close), was pocketable, and had lots of useful little features. And the OS wasn't bad, no matter what people say (although I believe Symbian was a pain with multi-core SoCs).
s.yu - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
I have to agree...it's all about the marketing.BedfordTim - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Huawei aren't far off in terms of sensor size. The issue is that a bigger sensor needs a bigger lens, and camera bump. Personally I would be quite happy but the fashion for thin hasn't quite died out yet.edzieba - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Then you'd end up with a camera with a phone grafted on, like the Samsung Galaxy Camera (or worse, the Galaxy NX). Then you have weirdness like the Sony QX1 (or the other 'Smart Lenses' with fixed mounts), which is an APS-C sensor and lens mount that you... sorta clip a phone to.vFunct - Thursday, June 18, 2020 - link
What's with all the landscape shots? Do you not know people that can be used as test models?vFunct - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
As in, people are the biggest camera subjects, enough so that phones include selfie cams.Without people test shots, you're never going to get a good camera quality analysis.
BedfordTim - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
People tend to run away when you threaten to take pictures for 20 minutes, and it opens up a minefield of different skin colours etc.Tomatotech - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
It’s a minefield indeed but it needs doing. White male / female & dark black male / female. I say dark black because in terms of lighting many lighting processes / photography algorithms are unfortunately set up for white skin and struggle most with dark black skin. Phones should be able to deal with black skin as well as white skin, and really, any phone that can’t do this should be identified and called out. It would be a huge credit to Anandtech if they found a phone that neglected the needs of photographing black skin, especially in the current climate of increased attention to these issues.I attended a BBC film lighting training course over 20 years ago, and while I’ve forgotten everything I learned on that course, one thing stuck with me - the trainer (white) talking at length about the need to adjust lighting to show black skin to its best effect. He made it very clear that sticking with default lighting when filming black people would be regarded as racism. He described many examples of professional TV and film work not lighting black actors or interviewees properly, and thus showing them as shadowy or menacing. This has always stayed with me as an example of institutional racism - many of the lighting technicians involved may not have been aware of what they were doing or known they were making mistakes, but the end effect is to degrade the black person on screen and privilege the white-skinned person. With modern better quality cameras the effect is less but it’s still often noticeable in modern media.
Sorry for the long ramble - I strongly consider this topic worth bringing up, especially in light of current events, and wanted to give you some background.
Tams80 - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Part of that is just physics and dark-skinned people just being unlucky in that how we record images sometimes just doesn't work well with them. Now, we can control lighting to correct for this and the fact that your trainer lengthily talked about it suggests that the BBC at least are not institutionally racist in that regard.It was and still is a bit of a joke with some of my friends who are black that they are 'invisible' in some dark photos. And we never seriously blamed the camera makers, as it was just in situations where we couldn't really control the lighting. And hey, at least dark-skinned people don't turn into lobsters in the sun.
Cailin - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Yeah this is such a huge issue with phone camera reviews in general.A while back I bought Huawei on ATs recommendation for camera quality. What I realised almost straight away was that the old pixel 2 was vastly superior in capturing usable images of my family in all conditions.
I then tried a galaxy S10, same thing. Sold it within a month as pixel 2 took way better shots of my kids and friends.
Most of us aren't content creators or taking photos of buildings every other day. We are taking photos of our kids, Christmas with family or our friends drunken antics. 80% of the shots we take are of humans.
Gigathome - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
I use my phone for virtual meetings and virtual rooms. Any benchmarking on mic, noise cancellation, video quality, video stabilization, anti blurring ?c2j2 - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Time to consider non-flagship cameras:https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64020261
When it comes to details, the P30 Pro is very aggressively blurring details (I think it's the JPEG compressor and some "enhanced" edge detection, as RAW looks better, but the macro cannot be used with RAW), often destroying the motive.
Psyside - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Where are the 64MP mode of Samsung is gimmick/terrible trolls now?Stay in your caves.
BTW gratz to Andrei, this article is SOMETHING ELSE! the alpha and omega in the smartphone/tech industry.
s.yu - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Not much has changed. 64MP is still genuinely unusable. At 50% mag (16MP) under optimal conditions, the LG and Samsung were somewhat better than the previous sample showed, regardless, the original conclusion stands, I repeat, 64MP is still genuinely unusable. BTW you were the clear troll before the release of this article.Psyside - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
"Not much has changed. 64MP is still genuinely unusable. At 50% mag (16MP) under optimal conditions, the LG and Samsung were somewhat better than the previous sample showed, regardless, the original conclusion stands, I repeat, 64MP is still genuinely unusable. BTW you were the clear troll before the release of this article"Comment the pictures i posted, don't cherry pick what you answer.
s.yu - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
I didn't go though all the comments. I've seen the picture and, for the final time: 64MP IS STILL GENUINELY UNUSABLE. Just because the 24MP Fuji's unusable upscaled to 64MP or higher doesn't make 64MP quad bayer any more usable.Also, don't cherry pick what you screenclip, there are some places across the scene where the Fuji was notably better, where quad bayer interpolation was very apparent, and that made me suspect a focusing issue or a skewed focal plane. I also don't know the parameters of the Fuji shots, shooting any kit lens wide open will not paint an ILC in good light.
Psyside - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
1. The pic is vs 12MP of S20, not just vs Fuji. And it blows it away out of the water in the detail department.2. The pic has MORE details vs the Fuji, also and not just more, SIGNIFICANTLY more.
3. Even if we count on the Fuji pic as anomaly, the difference in detail vs the 12MP shot of Samsung, and ANY other picture from the review is insane, when we talked before we talked about DETAILS/SHARPNESS not about dynamic range, low light performance, colors, contrast or anything else, we all know that 64MP will have less dynamic range, and other issue, but the point was, that you saying that 64MP is useless/gimmick, and you couldn't be more wrong, in bright daylight this new sensors are amazing, and the 64MP on the S20 is not quad bayer AFAIK, so next time when you claim BS, get ready to be corrected.
s.yu - Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - link
1. LMFAO. Take your strawman somewhere else. I already said S20's 12MP pipeline is severely flawed, that the 64MP output with a straight downsample to 16MP would be sharper. That was last time.2. Generally more, but not always significant. There's great variance of the 64MP output even within a single scene. While the first scene could largely be attributed to focusing issues( clear because the LG focused near infinity while the Samsung focused near MFD), a lot of variation in other scenes don't resemble focusing issues. The output quality is unstable and unpredictable. In general, The LG's 64MP mode outperforms the Samsung in terms of detail.
And again, if the Fuji was shot wide open with a kit lens, even a clear advantage really doesn't prove much.
3. Judging from the characteristics of the artifacts of Samsung's 64MP output, I say it looks like quad bayer, e.g. 2nd sample right above the sewer duct, the waxiness of the bricks and the horizontal smearing that clearly result in *less* resolution than the 24MP Fuji, as evident by the patches of lichen being smeared by the Samsung while more individual patches are distinguishable from the Fuji output. I say output from Nokia 808, known bayer, wouldn't exhibit that sort of texture degradation.
I said that I won't repeat myself, so I'll rephrase it for you: the 64MP mode of Samsung's S20 series has UNUSABLE TEXTURE at native resolution. It's usable at 16MP, probably even 24MP, NOT AT 64MP, therefore it's A GIMMICK, waste of storage space.
zodiacfml - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
This beats dpreview in smartphone camera reviews. I appreciate the work here but wouldn't be ideal if you have a Studio setup like dpreview has. There will be less need for travel, photos can be used to compare cameras of several generations, more scientific low light tests, and the most important, the sharpness/detail test.Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Studios do not work for smartphones because the quality of the shot is highly dependant on what the processing decides to do and that's going to be wildly scenario based. It works fine on regular cameras because they don't change their capture behaviour. And whilst sure it would at least cover the sharpness/detail aspect I don't think that's the main aspect of what makes a smartphone camera good or bad.zodiacfml - Sunday, June 21, 2020 - link
Well the regular cameras do vary in their JPEG output to get the processing choices made by the manufacturer. They shoot RAW though for true test of the hardware (noise, sharpness). Flagship smartphones usually have RAW shooting enabled, you might want to look into that.Sharpness/detail is interesting to test for since it is the reason why these smartphones are increasing camera sensor sizes despite the misleading Megapixel counts.
Finally, the studio I'm referring to is simply a wall with flat objects pasted on it and a good, even lighting. You can refer to dpreview.com studio tool.
Tams80 - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Most of us don't live in studios.zodiacfml - Sunday, June 21, 2020 - link
The studio I refer to is a simply a wall with flat, detailed objects on it and of course, good lighting. Can be done in any house with good space or wall.Psyside - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Andrei, one question. im more than aware that you are professional of highest order, but anyway, are the lenses on this smartphones trougly cleaned before the shooting? sometimes is hard to see if the lenses are smudged if you don't check at angle/direct light, and even very small amounts can make flaring much worse.Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Yes I usually wipe them before shooting.eastcoast_pete - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Good question, and thanks Andrei for answering! I habitually clean the lenses of my phone with a soft microfiber cloth wetted with 70% isopropyl alcohol if I anticipate taking any picture or video. However, I have witnessed some people expecting radar-like penetration of dust or smudge on their phone lenses (Those pictures are so blurry! Did you clean your lens? No! Should I?)Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
You should never ever use alcohol to wipe anything off as you're just destroying the oleophobic coatings.eastcoast_pete - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Is that also true for the harder glass that covers the lenses and using dilute alcohol (with significant water content)? I was told that the oleophobic coating is not damaged by 70% or 50% alcohol, but to stay away from anything with higher alcohol content. I'd like to do some reading on this, and would appreciate any link - thanks! I completely agree and knew that it's a bad idea to clean the screen with even dilute alcohol, as that will deteriorate the oleophobic coating of the screen.Tams80 - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
You can buy oleophobic liquids to put on your phone and they do work quite well. I'm not sure if they are as good as the factory-applied coatings though.And yes, you should still be careful with alcohol wipes. An article on this would be very interesting (perhaps even going into the science of it?)
Psyside - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Great to know they are cleaned! thanks!bigi - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
Excellent idea to finally reference phone cameras to something that takes proper pictures. Now, the X-T30 is truly excellent and modern camera. Because physics, no phone will match it unless same size sensor is used - more or less. As an owner original Canon 1D from 2001 with 4 Mega Pixel sensor, I can tell you that no phone can match it at any level still. People have no clue and marketing does the rest.eastcoast_pete - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
That's exactly why having a "gold standard" in any comparison puts the achievements or let-downs in perspective. I am, however, still amazed just how good the pictures and videos by many of today's smartphones already are.s.yu - Friday, June 19, 2020 - link
I see the issue with the nomenclature here...it's not "nonabayer" that's the exception here, it's "quadbayer"...Sony should have called it "quadrabayer".Psyside - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Oh there you are, i was waiting for you, now lets see how bad is Samsung 64MP during the day,https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/3687 - cropped at same level.
Psyside - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
And also please tell me which one is better from this 2,https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/3690
xGeoThumbs - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
I love these in depth comparisons, especially because you focus on true to life shots with a reference camera as a base for comparison.I do however think that the Pixel 4 can produce better results in daytime if you use Night Sight. Detail retention and sometimes the white balance will improve a lot.
fmcjw - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
If Anand did this article he would've used comparison tables for sensors/lenses/SoC DSP feature sets with OS version differences (rather than a simplistic, click it yourself and here's what I think about each phone format) and discussed/surmised the DSP workflows at play, why it made a particular camera perform better. Apple marketing hinted at the processes A13 included, and should've been at least mentioned in the previous iPhone 8/iPhone SE comparison. Similarly, GCam's processes can be compared.Anand's style is also to eliminate the SoC variable in the S20+/S20U, because he would've done a Exynos vs Snapdragon explainer/backgrounder comparison before he set out to test individual product design variations. A more strategic reviewer will sort this out rather present it as a "I'm not sure if" statement in the article, then skip to the battery of apples and oranges comparisons. I guess that's why Anand is hired by Apple then.
Barring any surprises, the video quality comparison should nicely correlate with pixel sizes. Still hope for Andrei to live up to his Anandtech creds by discussing microlens/binning advantages and tradeoffs over monolithic pixels, and video DSP designs. I suspect Apple has a leg up since their videos exhibit less jitter (frame rate drifting) and tell-tale signs of high frame-rate noise reduction.
Andrei Frumusanu - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
> If Anand did this articleBefore we repeat another rose-coloured glassed discussion of what Anand did or didn't do I would kindly remind what the last review of his 7 years ago contained in terms of camera evaluation:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-...
I would generally suggest reading the whole thing and contrasting that to either the iPhone 11 or S20 reviews.
> and discussed/surmised the DSP workflows at play, why it made a particular camera perform better.
I'm not qualified to talk about such things and neither would Anand have been. In fact, *nobody* is qualified to talk about these specifics, except the very engineers who designed the camera pipelines - each different for each vendor. Talking about Apple's high-level processes is pointless if we cannot put it into context of what other vendors are doing.
Similarly SoC DSP features sets as well as OS' are completely irrelevant to the discussion because no vendor actually discloses which features are being used and which aren't. It's a context-less presentation of incomplete information - I prefer to simply focus on the end result because that is what matters.
> Anand's style is also to eliminate the SoC variable in the S20+/S20U
I'm not sure what your argument and goal is here. I've done this and we covered this extensively in the S20 review and camera evaluations: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15603/the-samsung-g...
It was pointless to repeat the discussion with the Exynos S20U here as the article is already bloated, and the comparison focuses on the different vendors and flagships. Again what matters in the end is that results *still* remain wildly different between the Samsung phones, the detailed analysis you could read the aforementioned review months ago.
> Still hope for Andrei to live up to his Anandtech creds by discussing microlens/binning advantages and tradeoffs over monolithic pixels, and video DSP designs.
We've discussed these things over dozens of articles and reviews over the last years, especially in the last 2 years where these sensors have become popular.
> I guess that's why Anand is hired by Apple then.
Apple sure dodged a bullet when they showed the same interest with me.
I'm sorry I don't live up to your high standards, I might suggest reading other reviewers who invest more time and effort than I did here. Otherwise comments like these are akin to simply taking the piss on the time & effort it takes to actually publish a piece like this.
fmcjw - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
The point here is not to attack or provoke a defense of what is there, but how things might develop. Thanks for linking to Anand's piece, which illuminates some things I refer to. Brian Klug was quite a force on his own, but it showed even in this non-co-authored article that they were working as a team rather than their respective columns. And Anand clearly revealed his methodologies and reasoning process, so that even if he wasn't "qualified", he made valid observations others would have not.I would've clicked on a like button or donate button towards your efforts rather than participate in a match of showering of praise, but I felt constructive criticism might be more useful in the comment section. Sorry you took it as pissing on your work or a form of discrediting.
BGQ-qbf-tqf-n6n - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Andrei's work here more than matches the quality standard set by Anand before he left, and in particular the camera reviews in their consistency and thoroughness go beyond the scope of any similar work by Anand while he was here.If you can't see that by simply reading the content...you might not be capable of appreciating how high the quality bar has been maintained at Anandtech for years, and what a privilege it is to enjoy it.
eastcoast_pete - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Not sure what you're trying to say here, and how any of that would matter; in the end, I want to know which smartphone delivers the best image quality. And, while I certainly am curious how that's done, the result comes first and foremost. Anand did write many good articles, but he couldn't discuss or explain technical details that no manufacturer shares with anyone outside, and neither can Andrei.Psyside - Sunday, June 21, 2020 - link
If Anand did this article he would've used comparison tables for sensors/lenses/SoC DSP feature sets with OS version differences (rather than a simplistic, click it yourself and here's what I think about each phone format) and discussed/surmised the DSP workflows at play, why it made a particular camera perform better. Apple marketing hinted at the processes A13 included, and should've been at least mentioned in the previous iPhone 8/iPhone SE comparison. Similarly, GCam's processes can be compared.WOW, how rude, do you even know what this article is? do you know the time and resources needed to do such in depth article? shame on you.
Alexey291 - Friday, June 26, 2020 - link
To be fair, "the resources" required are just the phones (which they have for free) the time? One afternoon + 1 evening out and 1 day collating the pictures?I agree that its a good article but lets not overstate the amount of "effort" this took ok?
arashi - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
Would you like to speak to the manager?TheBetterCuriousMike - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
Many of these photos, for snapshots, match the Fuji for overall pleasantness.I struggled, at normal resolution and daylight to see a difference that mattered to me.
Color science, the Apple seems to be most pleasing. Undoubtedly due to the fact Apple has hired the best color science engineers in the world.
However, the image of the river with the bridge over it (Luxemburg sign) - there was a difference. At a minimum, the iPhone (badly) moired and the Samsung. The Fuji looked very good, and the detail in the actual bridge existed. The Apple and Samsung smushed the detail in moire.
I'd be curious if the Fuji was used in full auto mode, or were you selectively choosing the aperture to ensure the lens was in its sweet spot? (Typically stopped down one or two notches.)
Andrei Frumusanu - Saturday, June 20, 2020 - link
The Fuji was in mostly f/8.0 stopped down in the daylight shots.Harysviewty - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
LG hdr on vs hdr auto has a very big different processing. The exif also shows that clearly. Lg night mode by default prefer to go with natural dark output, but you can boost it furtherutmode - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
Thanks Andrei. What a detail article.bull2760 - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
Why did you not include the Sony Experia 1 Mark II in testing or if you couldn't get your hands on the Mark II, which I've seen on numerous other sites, al least include the Experia 1.Psyside - Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - link
Xperia 1 is averagepaul4na - Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - link
Xperia 1 II should blow all of these out of the water!saj4u - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
How does the growth in MP/sensor size/computational photography impact system requirements in terms of higher memory, compute etc.? Would love to learn any thumb rules that you know in terms of designing camera subsystems here that might explain some of the performance differences here!! Also, does will 5G matter here?Biathanatos - Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - link
Hint: No need for 'amongst' or 'whilst'.Ethos Evoss - Saturday, June 27, 2020 - link
Total anandatech scrApple sellout article ... Everybody know dat Huawei has the best photographyAnd u hetre biasing on Huawei .. anandatech is now apples bitch running from their monies.. that's for sure ............ they can't even upgrade the look of the website..
s.yu - Monday, June 29, 2020 - link
Well if it isn't Ethos the Huawei troll, haven't seen you around here for more than a year. Take your Huawei rainbow farts elsewhere, this site is for grownups.damianrobertjones - Saturday, July 18, 2020 - link
Although Anandtech is a great place for articles and info, they've ALWAYS leaned slightly towards Apple. You must be young as I can recall Anand himself going to work for Apple.TheGodFatherOfAnons - Wednesday, July 1, 2020 - link
They are the most underrated thing about Snapseed, I feel. But then you could say the same about pro manual mode, which most folks never even touch on phones.The custom filters make the photos no less than if they came from a flagship. The flagships simply take your money for the auto mode for the most part.
1az2sx - Sunday, October 10, 2021 - link
AI off or on?