I own the original Surface Book (i5) with the NVidia GPU. Still going strong after all these years. Apart from the mediocre keyboard, I have no complaints. It would be nice if Anandtech can add those numbers to the comparison charts.
This review really highlights how good a value the Acer Swift 3 this generation, at like 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the cheapest Surface Book or Laptop. Both the Intel and AMD versions.
It's not hard to find examples of cars that are much cheaper than an S-Class that can run circles around one. But it's just as irrelevant a comparison as comparing this to an Acer Swift 3. Which is the point the previous posted was making.
Well analogies are never perfect, they just have to be good enough to make a point. And in this case they still can. Even when much of that price is "the brand" you still get objective benefits that might make you choose the more expensive option. Very rarely are 2 products absolutely identical except for the logo which make one 2 times more expensive. You'll get better performance, better features, better build quality, better reliability, better feel, better support and services, etc. Any one of those can justify the price.
Right next to me I have a 2008 Lenovo X200 which I used every day for the first 6 years and every week since then. Traveled with it through an airport almost every week of those first 6 years. It looks like new, it works like new. Yes it was probably 4-5 times more expensive than the equivalent Acer but under these conditions I would have probably had to buy 6 Acers to keep up.
Usually things have a certain price for a reason. At least in part you get what you pay for. If this works for you go for it.
All of this is true, but none of it really applies to a Surface Book.
It's not built to the same standards as a Lenovo X200. Yes, it does use premium materials and yes, many of its features (screen, keyboard, overall fit and finish) are notably superior to something like an Acer Swift 3. On the flip side, though, the price difference doesn't result in the same unambiguous increase in reliability as a Thinkpad.
its a silly comparison at any level because the performance game in cars is over and irrelevant. The new corvette is faster than a Ferrari Enzo. If you are buying on performance alone then you can get "fast enough" at any budget today. More important things matter.
That's different than PC's where performance is still improving and price/performance is a valid measure.
@Redshirt4life You and the sheep deserve this overpriced junk. Meanwhile, the rest of the world’s getting Ryzen 4700u 16GB RAM 512GB SSD for around $750.
its not for normal person that care for the cash, its for those who dont care how pricy this is same as apple. it's just as poor "mimic apple" try as all other MS products. its mediocore priced as cancer cure.
yeah, sure, in a piece of crap fragile plastic case with a bad display. You apparently didn't notice but people pay extra for nice form factors - have you ever heard of the word "premium" before?
I still don't understand how the smartest, most detailed and honest tech review site has a comment section absolutely packed with idiots.
I mean, yeah, it does. Not sure what your broader point is here. Blaktron didn't say the Surface Book is pointless, just that the Swift 3 looks like good value in comparison. Istroo.
That Acer would have same engine (CPU), same transmission (memory), same fuel (SSD), same aerodynamics (ultrabook body) etc etc etc, but for twice lower price. So it's incorrect comparison.
That is quite the exaggeration and my response is being made from a laptop that has an 11.6 inch 1366x768 panel, yet oddly is used for gaming, video editing, writing, remote VM sessions, a virtualization host, AND checking e-mail among other things.
While high resolution screens are nice, in the end you wind up with the equivalent space of 1080p because of DPI scaling. I have a 13.3" laptop with a 3200x1800 screen. I run it at 1080p to reduce GPU load and without DPI scaling everything is too small. Before you say I just need glasses, I have 20/10 vision.
Scaling is fine. I'm typing this on a Dell XPS 13 9370 with 3840x2160 screen scaled to 250%. The text is super crisp like typeset quality. Lower resolution displays make the text look horrible like I'm trying to read a newspaper through a screen door.
Yeah I'm never sure what's going on when people bag on Windows scaling. It's been usable since 8.1 and probably the best in the industry since 10. I run my 4K displays at 200% for a nice balance between screen real estate and text clarity.
Some apps still don't like it - for some reason people blame Windows, not the apps.
I'm not ragging on Windows scaling. I was just stating that as soon as you use 250% DPI scaling you get rid of all of the extra screen real estate that you get from the higher resolution. Even at 1080p with a 15" monitor the text is nice and crisp. Granted if you have a junk monitor it won't matter. For example a 15" screen at 1080p has a PPI of 146.86, that is higher than the PPI of my 34" 1440p ultrawide. That is also equal to the PPI of a 30" 4k screen.
I don't disagree there is little reason to go for a high end ultrabook/ slim laptops nowadays. However PC manufacturers still reserve higher end components, i.e. monitor, bigger battery, etc... So I think it really depends on your needs. In terms of performance, I feel there is little difference whether its low, mid or high end, since cooling is sorely lacking to give emphasis on a slim build.
The split of the CPU and GPU into display/tablet (CPU) and keyboard (dGPU) is actually one of the smarter design elements of the Surface Pro, as that alleviates some of that "too much heat in not enough space". However, one of those in 15" with a Ryzen 4700 or 4800u even without the dGPU would be what I'd like to see, especially for less money. If one could then add the dGPU later on to the keyboard part, it could even provide an upgrade path.
Technically you should be correct, but according to this guy(the author) even a 2060 is "a bit too much" for this 15" device. He seems so wrong on the whole GPU picture I don't know where to start.
Thanks Brett! Too bad that "refreshing dip into Ice Lake" requires such a deep dive into ones bank account! I really like the design, but a more affordable version would make the Surface Book form factor a lot more compelling.
I mean, it's a premium device. Sure they could've made it out of plastic and sourced bargain components, but then it wouldn't be a Surface. It wouldn't even be a decent laptop. Besides the Book family has always had excellent sales periodically. If you don't like the entry price for quality and innovation, that's your choice, but making snarky comments about it isn't compelling at all.
lmfao, quality and innovation. The SP series has stagnated so much people are calling the SP7 a "SP4.99", nor is it known for its reliability or build quality. The XPS 13 2-in-1 has comparable (arguably better) build quality, a much bigger battery, a CPU that boosts far better(hardly throttles while SP7 throttles 30%), and its price is still about a tier below the spec-matched SP7 accounting for the pricing and SP7's mandatory keyboard and pen purchases(both included in the XPS, keyboard obviously, but the stylus also comes bundled). Better yet, it's easy to come across factory refurbished XPS13 that come with extended warranty, but not SP7, if they even sell those at all.
...and the XPS doesn't detach at all to a straight tablet, double the overall weight, fans, etc. iPads haven't changed much in 5 years. Laptops are still clamshells. And your "minor" spec bumps include doubling cores or threads (or both), WiFi 6, Intel ax adapters, USB - C, 50% better graphics output, instant on.... Etc, etc.... Yes, DEFINITELY NOT EXACTLY WHAT SURFACE FANS HAVE BEEN REQUESTING. How dare Microsoft listen to their customers!
You're pounding on the concept of "premium = expensive" to avoid discussing the fact that the design is no longer innovative, has been plagued by performance, stability and driver problems throughout its existence, and - as others have noted - you can get equivalent or better quality for less.
A price drop now that they've presumably amortised the costs of the design would make any and/or all of those concerns more palatable.
Agreed that the hardware is interesting, but the price is quite high. As always. someone or some company will make purchases, but for the rest of us that like seeing their net worth go up rather than own status symbol hardware, there are alternatives.
It's very disappointing that they didn't use Ryzen APUs. But anyway it's very slow to do any real work on it, plus in their wisdom (or absence of thereof) didn't include a proper keyboard with keypad.
numpad laptops are a thing of the past. Anybody who NEEDS one probably works at a desk with a dock and can use a USB one. They take up a huge amount of keyboard space and rarely get used.
This is going to be a comment on every premium laptop review until either Intel gets an 8-core U-series part out on 10 nm or smaller or Ryzen starts showing up in premium notebooks, isn't it?
Anyway, no one's using Ryzen in premium laptops right now. Ryzen 4xxx is the first AMD notebook chip worthy of being in a premium laptop, erm, ever (even when AMD was stacking up quite nicely vs Intel on the desktop, low power parts were another story), and premium laptops have a longer lead time than simpler value and gaming designs. Come back again next fall, especially if Intel doesn't show plans for an 8-core/15 Watt Tiger Lake.
Funny that despite the AMD being a better product Dell etc still put intel into the best chassis with the best components wonder why that is...rebates perhaps
Most likely in response to customers... I know it's hard to believe - but the world sees AMD as a bargain bin brand - right or wrong, that is the perception.
It's not an instant transition, especially for the average consumer that doesn't follow tech news. Ryzen and AMD still has some catching up to do with regards to brand equity.
On that front I agree completely - but if that were the only obstacle, you'd expect to see Dell beginning the transition. Asus have with the G14.
It's a fairly simple equation - you draw on your existing brand credibility and add a new option. You advertise its strengths. Consumers who don't follow tech news don't know the difference between AMD and Intel, but they know what "same design, more cores, faster performance, less heat" means.
Asus itself is not perceived as a premium brand - I have never owned an Asus laptop and avoid their motherboards and video cards like the plague - but have had several Asus monitors over the years - they had the first true GSync monitor way back when.
This. AMD made huge inroads on this from 2000-2005 and really positioned themselves as the market leader. As a big user of this site and AT's BB then, we all jumped on much earlier but that was more from enthusiasts. Then Intel's Core arrived in 2006. And Intel swiftly started shifting back the performance brand, image and raw performance leads. 5 Years ago, AMD laptop marketshare was barely existent. As someone waiting to buy a gaming laptop right now, I really want a Ryzen-powered laptop with a Nvidia GPU, which isn't available above a 1660/2060. Ill bite when it is. :)
I'm saying that Dell builds what sells - they are pretty good at it. I would never buy a Dell desktop or workstation - but for ultrabooks / 2-in-1s and monitors - I am pretty well in the Dell camp
Oh come on if you spent more than 10 seconds on Dell's website you'd know why.
Dell is a corporate company through and through and every one of their laptops supports a dock. Dell docks are 90% TB3 docks. Integrating TB3 with AMD is possible but not easy right now. The turnaround time would be impossible for this laptop launch cycle.
That's a fair critique, but the only gaming designs we've seen are ASUS, no? They were the preferred partner. Don't think AMD has enough "preferred partner" teams to hit up every laptop brand.
Did you not read his comment at all? Longer lead times, due to customized components etc. Not to mention the perceived brand differences in average consumers' minds
Microsoft put AMD's last-gen chips in some of their premium devices. It's almost like they already very pointedly developed the ability to second-source even when performance leadership wasn't there... (I can actually understand them not doing so in this specific instance. They barely got their drivers functional for the Intel / Nvidia combo, I don't think they'd have a good time redoing the whole thing for AMD)
We already know that Tiger Lake is a 4-core part at 15W (TDP-down from 28W), so I guess we'll see how things look in a year's time.
Would there be significant changes between that APU vs the 4000 series? Can't imagine MS doing it for no reason - but there are pretty long lead times ... that's a bit of a halo (no pun intended)product for MS.
I genuinely don't know the answer to that. The desktop models are going to be compatible with the same socket and chipset, so I wouldn't have thought they'd need to do an extensive redesign moving from 3000 to 4000 series APUs - but then 4000 enables the use of things like LPDDR4X, so I may be entirely wrong.
It's taken MS long enough to refresh this product that I'm sure you're right about the lead times.
Did you ever try to use Surface Book outdoors? I can only say that as soon as the temp is over 90F (around 30C) my Book 2 will overheat and lock CPU at 800MHz, it's simply piece of junk at that time. As much as I like it when used in cold office I will never buy another MS product due to that and also luck of proper servicing.
Does anyone know if the surface book 3 can drive two 4k displays at 60hz? The 2 could not because it used the internal intel chip instead of the nvidia one for external displays.
i7-1065G7 supports DisplayPort 1.4, so theoretically with a type-c to dual displayport converter/MST hub you should be able to do 2x 4K@60. See https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2019/10/10/dual-... for required bits.
Just be wary because the SB2 cannot drive any external display using the 1060 GPU. Since that was not listed as an improvement of the SB3 you'll want to check carefully. You may be fine using the integrated Intel GPU to drive 2 4K displays or you may not. But no one reviewing has yet checked to see if the 1660 can drive any external connector (USB C or via the dock).
"Although the Surface Book 3 can ship with the fastest SSD Microsoft has ever put in a notebook, that was not the case for the review unit, which was actually slower than the 256 GB SSD in the Surface Laptop 3."
Surface Book (Anandtech, 2015):
"On a premium device like the Surface Book, I would expect only the best, and while the drive may meet their internal performance levels, a cacheless TLC based SSD in a premium device is not necessary."
Storage really cannot be that complex a decision. There are, at most, 5-6 OEM SSDs used on high-end premium notebooks.
Glad to see platform & internal improvements and a big thank you to Microsoft for outfitting these with at least decent webcams. For the price, though:
-- no TB3 is a sore spot (Microsoft Docks are obscenely priced and come with no smaller options...not to mention how buggy they have been)
-- a *single* USB type-C port is egregious in a premium 2020 15" notebook
-- that slow charging is painful for this "executives on the move" niche market (0-80% in an hour: curious they give the one-hour charging speed instead of 30 minutes...)
Are these nitpicks? Sure. But for a device that claims to "serve the high-end market", Microsoft continuously fails to read the room in a few crucial ways.
What else can do you, besides pity Panos Panay's Steve Jobs routine?
And don’t forget if they drain the battery you can’t plug them into a dock to turn it on, you need to use a standalone charger to get it up to 10% or so first. Ugh I am not a Surface fan AT ALL. I’ve supported almost all of the models.
I don't give a crap about bezels and I doubt anyone else does either, beyond tech pundits and reviewers who need something trendy to criticize. In fact, for devices to be held in the hands, like phones and tablets, bezels are a feature, not a bug, as they limit accidental activations.
I own an original Surface Book, and I have a few observations about its durability.
In the end, the detachable form factor is not a good idea. It means if you want to get inside, you have to pry off the screen, a dicey proposition. It is fussy and fumbly to switch back and forth, which you really need to do if you need to change between drawing and typing as drawing in laptop mode is made quite difficult by the screen wobbling back and forth. It's best to think of this as a pure laptop.
The build quality is suspect. I've actually owned three of these things due to warranty replacements. Each of the previous ones had a power button that got stuck in the on position.
Also, I don't detach the screen very much, but the connection on all three computers became wonky. Suddenly it no longer sees the keyboard any more and announces that it is in tablet mode.
The memory wire attachment mechanism is clever, but it has gotten to the point that it doesn't work consistently. And the only recourse then is to find the one and only vent hole on the side that allows you to push a paper clip in at a 45 degree angle to force a manual release. That is clearly designed to prevent you from using it.
Batteries are not eternal but at this point my battery life with keyboard attached is down to less than two hours. That seems like an awfully quick degradation, as these things go.
The only thing that is an unmitigated good about these device, and it is a big thing, is the hi res 3:2 screen. If only Microsoft could make Windows scale appropriately instead of relying on each app to do it independently.
This pretty much summarises my understanding of the devices, from a support perspective... they're just fussy. Over-engineered would be another way of putting it. Impossible to repair, fragile, and generally not suited to regular use "in anger".
I am not sure about them being fragile - have had 10 or 11 deployed in the field, and they can at times take a beating - no failures in ~2 years - I have had my older model for going on 4, although doesn't get used that much anymore... still no issues.
The GTX 1660 Ti Max-Q seems to be delivering better performance than expected (especially given it's a 65W part, vs. the 80W GTX 1060 Max-P in the Surface Book 2 15"), so it's not a completely worthless spec bump.
That said, this would've been the perfect use case for the Ryzen 4000 U-series CPUs. Equipping the Surface Book 3 with a Ryzen 7 4800U would've allowed for performance on par with 45W 6/8-core Intel-based 15" competitors but within the Surface's 15-25W TDP budget.
Intel Ice Lake U-series is by far the biggest disappointment on this machine -- it (along with every other premium Intel-powered ultrabook) gets destroyed by the 4700U-powered $650 Acer Swift 3. The performance picture gets even worse when you look at, say, the Asus ROG Zephyrus G14, which ups the ante with the desktop-killing Ryzen 9 4900HS for under $1,500 -- with a 14" screen, solid battery life, and lower weight than even the 13" Surface Book 3.
It's completely idiotic to compare a part that fits in a tablet form factor with a laptop sporting a 35W CPU. Whether the form factor is dumb or not is a different question.
Worth remembering that Intel has delivered a "true SoC" platform for quite some time now. AMD's past CPUs, by comparison, weren't "true SoC" platforms and weren't even candidates to fit on this size of board. Ryzen 2x00U had an idle power bug across the platform, further removing it from candidacy.
That means the first AMD SoC the Surface Book team might've had the chance to integrate is the 3x00U. Based on how long it took for MS to integrate Ice Lake, the Surface Book 3 wouldn't get the 4700U until Christmas or later. Possibly longer considering that the 4700U is a more substantial change than Ice Lake vs past Intel SoCs.
"AMD’s latest Ryzen mobile product is the first design the company has done that combines CPU, GPU, and IO all on a monolithic die in TSMC’s 7nm process."
Indicating that IO wasn't entirely on-board before. Surface Book 4 could theoretically have a Ryzen design.
Would imagine that the 1 AMD design they have would be sporting the 4000 series - wonder how much of a new design was needed to support it. Thermals would be better on the 4000 vs the older design
I think you've misinterpreted that - Renoir is the first AMD SoC that combines all of that *on 7nm*. I'm fairly sure Raven ridge included USB, SATA etc on-die - that's how the A300 Promontory "chipset" in the ASRock A300 does its thing.
Wouldn't surprise me if the SoC had a larger package area than the Intel competitors, though. Intel have been working hard on that aspect for a few generations now.
Does Marvell even make wifi chips anymore? I thought they sold off that product line, and good riddance, too. Those were always garbage. I'd take a single channel Realtek 802.11n solution over any Marvell Armada,.
Premium device, premium price, and no Thunderbolt.
Why? because a Micrososft executive was scared about thunderbolt being a vector for malware. Even though -Microsoft itself- has long ago patched that vulnerability in windows.
Astoundingly schizophrenic product line. Even Apple is was capable of loading up their laptops with TB ports years ago.
I don't think TB - outside of Apple - has much penetration in the market. There are some nice disk arrays that connect thru TB - those are platform agnostic... Think about FireWire - industry standard - pretty much Apple only.
not necessarily niche on the PC side - I confess other than the Dell 13 2-in-1s i don't own anything that is TB - looked into the docking stations - wouldn't really serve a useful purpose for me. I have been out of corp IT for quite a while now.
"I don't think TB - outside of Apple - has much penetration in the market."
That point is arguable, but regardless, thunderbolt has only upside and now downside from a usability perspective. Now that TB has been royalty-free for a few years, there's no excuse not to include it on basically every laptop. I hate on Apple as much as anyone, but at least we can give them credit for pushing USB forward and now pushing TB3 forward, to the benefit of everyone.
Tablets aren't really even a thing anymore. Hardly any company makes a credible attempt at producing one outside of the usual iFruits and Microsoft (I guess Google has Chrome-based hardware too if you like giving your personal information to the creepiest company on the planet). There are still a few 2-in-1 systems around and ultra low budget Android devices, plus a couple of laptops with questionably glossy touchscreens for reasons only the OEM can fully understand, but in general terms, tablets - Windows ones moreso than others - have been taken out back and shot, then tossed into a shallow grave with a bunch of other tech fads that failed to take enduring root.
It is unexpected to watch Microsoft continue to release new models in a form factor that is laying in the desert, gasping its last parched air before failing to pull a Clint Eastwood-style survival montage. They already transitioned partly to clamshell designs to hedge the Surface brand name. It really is odd to see them clinging to the touch-everywhere bad old days of Windows 8.
"It really is odd to see them clinging to the touch-everywhere bad old days of Windows 8." If only Microsoft actually did, then the tablet experience with Win 10 wouldn't be so poor. On Windows pure and detachable tablets aren't strong because the tablet experience just isn't good or polished even for built-in basic functions, let alone the barren app Store. Add in the slow progress on low-tdp chips that would actually enable portable designs.
Intel's Lakefield could change the story there -- aside from the Intel tax with the experimental-technology surcharge, it could fit in 8 inch tablets. Based on the Surface Neo delay, I'd assume it's using a Lakefield chip.
Microsoft's lack of good tablet software in the store boils down to the .NET team absolutely ignoring everything the Windows team would prioritize. Windows 10X doubles down on UWP while the .NET team hasn't released an up-to-date AOT compiler and C# project format in over 2 years.
I will probably use the tablet mode on the 13 2-in-1 about as much as on the previous model - not much at all - but when needed (stocking up at a Spec's type place for a party) it is very useful. But yeah the time of the tablets looks to be over.
I have a surface laptop 3. It has horrible glossy, highly reflective display and windows makes matters worse by rendering the font greyish, which cause headaches after short time. went back to my MacBook Pro
It would be nice to see them increase the base size thickness a little, just to get a better cooling solution in there. I have the Surface Book 2 with the 1060. Works fine, but the fans are pretty loud when gaming. I don't expect it to be silent, but would be nice for it to be a few more db quieter.
The Surface Book 2 was routinely using 12 Watts of power when the GTX 1050 was idling, so it would be really great if Surface Book 3 with 1660 Ti only uses 5.7 to 8 Watts. (I also wonder if it would last twice as long with the dGPU disabled, like the Surface Book 2 does.)
I'm pretty surprised that the review doesn't mention that the Surface Book 3 repeats the biggest design problem that I've experienced over the last year of using a Surface Book 2 at work: the location of the thermal exhaust for the GPU. This thermal exhaust location is adequate when the system connected in a "laptop" orientation, but, when the screen is reversed and folded down on top of the keyboard, the hinge and the screen completely cover the GPU's thermal exhaust.
This limits the user to using the stylus in situations that don't demand much "oomph" in the graphics department, e.g. taking notes. If one wants to use the stylus for medium-duty art applications, one must choose between forgoing the GPU, awkwardly using the stylus on a laptop-style screen configuration, or choking the GPU thermal exhausts with the back of the screen, causing performance degradation and overheating. I don't think this would show up in your benchmark tests, but it at least deserves mention in the text!
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YB1064 - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
I own the original Surface Book (i5) with the NVidia GPU. Still going strong after all these years. Apart from the mediocre keyboard, I have no complaints. It would be nice if Anandtech can add those numbers to the comparison charts.Brett Howse - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
You can always use our Bench to compare anything. Link in the article as well as at the top of the page:https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2599?vs=15...
Our tests have changed so it will only show data where both ran the same test.
YB1064 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
Thank you Brett, I forgot about that.blaktron - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
This review really highlights how good a value the Acer Swift 3 this generation, at like 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the cheapest Surface Book or Laptop. Both the Intel and AMD versions.Redshirt4life - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
"This Mercedes S-class review really highlights what a great value the Honda Civic is!" - you, probably.blaktron - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
If the Civic blew circles around the Mercedes, then yeah. That's exactly what I would say.Flunk - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Civic Type-R? On a track => smoked S-Class.It's not hard to find examples of cars that are much cheaper than an S-Class that can run circles around one. But it's just as irrelevant a comparison as comparing this to an Acer Swift 3. Which is the point the previous posted was making.
FunBunny2 - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
does a Patek Philippe keep better time than a Seiko? either mainspring or quartz??devione - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
Actually a COSC-certified Patek does probably keep better time than a Seiko.Please, (in general, not just you) stop with the internet car analogies (or watches). It's stupid.
close - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
Well analogies are never perfect, they just have to be good enough to make a point. And in this case they still can. Even when much of that price is "the brand" you still get objective benefits that might make you choose the more expensive option. Very rarely are 2 products absolutely identical except for the logo which make one 2 times more expensive. You'll get better performance, better features, better build quality, better reliability, better feel, better support and services, etc. Any one of those can justify the price.Right next to me I have a 2008 Lenovo X200 which I used every day for the first 6 years and every week since then. Traveled with it through an airport almost every week of those first 6 years. It looks like new, it works like new. Yes it was probably 4-5 times more expensive than the equivalent Acer but under these conditions I would have probably had to buy 6 Acers to keep up.
Usually things have a certain price for a reason. At least in part you get what you pay for. If this works for you go for it.
Spunjji - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
All of this is true, but none of it really applies to a Surface Book.It's not built to the same standards as a Lenovo X200. Yes, it does use premium materials and yes, many of its features (screen, keyboard, overall fit and finish) are notably superior to something like an Acer Swift 3. On the flip side, though, the price difference doesn't result in the same unambiguous increase in reliability as a Thinkpad.
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onlineiotap - Wednesday, July 8, 2020 - link
Nowadays laptops come in more than 20 GB RAM... https://online.iotap.co.uk/zmatt - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Does it outrun an AMG?its a silly comparison at any level because the performance game in cars is over and irrelevant. The new corvette is faster than a Ferrari Enzo. If you are buying on performance alone then you can get "fast enough" at any budget today. More important things matter.
That's different than PC's where performance is still improving and price/performance is a valid measure.
sonny73n - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
@Redshirt4lifeYou and the sheep deserve this overpriced junk. Meanwhile, the rest of the world’s getting Ryzen 4700u 16GB RAM 512GB SSD for around $750.
deil - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
its not for normal person that care for the cash, its for those who dont care how pricy this is same as apple.it's just as poor "mimic apple" try as all other MS products.
its mediocore priced as cancer cure.
temps - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
yeah, sure, in a piece of crap fragile plastic case with a bad display. You apparently didn't notice but people pay extra for nice form factors - have you ever heard of the word "premium" before?I still don't understand how the smartest, most detailed and honest tech review site has a comment section absolutely packed with idiots.
sweetca - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
An enigma that has confounded me for ages.sonny73n - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Funny that a 10 years old Mercedes costs less than a 10 years old Civic.Mercedes: overpriced, heavy, waste gas, electronic system is a mess, very high maintenance cost and lose value quickly.
This Surface Book’s design is much better than the Mercedes’s you’re comparing to.
Deicidium369 - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
And the Surface Book never helped Hitler do Hitler things.TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, June 9, 2020 - link
IBM helped Hitler do Hitler things, and that was the basis for modern windows computing. OOPS."But muh Hitler" is a lame argument.
benedict - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Except the S-class is quite fast unlike this Microsoft crap that struggles even with basic tasks.Spunjji - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
I mean, yeah, it does. Not sure what your broader point is here. Blaktron didn't say the Surface Book is pointless, just that the Swift 3 looks like good value in comparison. Istroo.jsonder - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
As the owner of an AMD 4700U version of the Swift 3, I have to agree that it is a lot of computer for the price, despite the crummy camera.PeachNCream - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
You know you're reading a tech news site when someone breaks out the "compare-everything-to-cars" thing.regsEx - Sunday, June 7, 2020 - link
That Acer would have same engine (CPU), same transmission (memory), same fuel (SSD), same aerodynamics (ultrabook body) etc etc etc, but for twice lower price. So it's incorrect comparison.Manch - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Does it split like the book or even have a similar build?toomanylogins - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
That is a ridiculous comment. The Acer has a 1080p screen which makes it pretty much useless for anything other than reading email.PeachNCream - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
That is quite the exaggeration and my response is being made from a laptop that has an 11.6 inch 1366x768 panel, yet oddly is used for gaming, video editing, writing, remote VM sessions, a virtualization host, AND checking e-mail among other things.TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, June 9, 2020 - link
WOOOOOSHSpunjji - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
I haven't ever had a work laptop with a screen resolution higher than 1080p. Your comment is invalid.Deicidium369 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
Our previous Dell 13 2-in-1 had the 4K screen - utterly unusable - opted for the 1920x1200 in the new 13 2-in-1s. much more usableschujj07 - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
While high resolution screens are nice, in the end you wind up with the equivalent space of 1080p because of DPI scaling. I have a 13.3" laptop with a 3200x1800 screen. I run it at 1080p to reduce GPU load and without DPI scaling everything is too small. Before you say I just need glasses, I have 20/10 vision.cpufrost - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Scaling is fine. I'm typing this on a Dell XPS 13 9370 with 3840x2160 screen scaled to 250%. The text is super crisp like typeset quality. Lower resolution displays make the text look horrible like I'm trying to read a newspaper through a screen door.Spunjji - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
Yeah I'm never sure what's going on when people bag on Windows scaling. It's been usable since 8.1 and probably the best in the industry since 10. I run my 4K displays at 200% for a nice balance between screen real estate and text clarity.Some apps still don't like it - for some reason people blame Windows, not the apps.
schujj07 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
I'm not ragging on Windows scaling. I was just stating that as soon as you use 250% DPI scaling you get rid of all of the extra screen real estate that you get from the higher resolution. Even at 1080p with a 15" monitor the text is nice and crisp. Granted if you have a junk monitor it won't matter. For example a 15" screen at 1080p has a PPI of 146.86, that is higher than the PPI of my 34" 1440p ultrawide. That is also equal to the PPI of a 30" 4k screen.watzupken - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
I don't disagree there is little reason to go for a high end ultrabook/ slim laptops nowadays. However PC manufacturers still reserve higher end components, i.e. monitor, bigger battery, etc... So I think it really depends on your needs. In terms of performance, I feel there is little difference whether its low, mid or high end, since cooling is sorely lacking to give emphasis on a slim build.eastcoast_pete - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
The split of the CPU and GPU into display/tablet (CPU) and keyboard (dGPU) is actually one of the smarter design elements of the Surface Pro, as that alleviates some of that "too much heat in not enough space". However, one of those in 15" with a Ryzen 4700 or 4800u even without the dGPU would be what I'd like to see, especially for less money. If one could then add the dGPU later on to the keyboard part, it could even provide an upgrade path.
s.yu - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Technically you should be correct, but according to this guy(the author) even a 2060 is "a bit too much" for this 15" device. He seems so wrong on the whole GPU picture I don't know where to start.eastcoast_pete - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Thanks Brett! Too bad that "refreshing dip into Ice Lake" requires such a deep dive into ones bank account! I really like the design, but a more affordable version would make the Surface Book form factor a lot more compelling.Redshirt4life - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
I mean, it's a premium device. Sure they could've made it out of plastic and sourced bargain components, but then it wouldn't be a Surface. It wouldn't even be a decent laptop. Besides the Book family has always had excellent sales periodically. If you don't like the entry price for quality and innovation, that's your choice, but making snarky comments about it isn't compelling at all.s.yu - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
lmfao, quality and innovation. The SP series has stagnated so much people are calling the SP7 a "SP4.99", nor is it known for its reliability or build quality. The XPS 13 2-in-1 has comparable (arguably better) build quality, a much bigger battery, a CPU that boosts far better(hardly throttles while SP7 throttles 30%), and its price is still about a tier below the spec-matched SP7 accounting for the pricing and SP7's mandatory keyboard and pen purchases(both included in the XPS, keyboard obviously, but the stylus also comes bundled). Better yet, it's easy to come across factory refurbished XPS13 that come with extended warranty, but not SP7, if they even sell those at all.ReverendDC - Sunday, June 7, 2020 - link
...and the XPS doesn't detach at all to a straight tablet, double the overall weight, fans, etc. iPads haven't changed much in 5 years. Laptops are still clamshells. And your "minor" spec bumps include doubling cores or threads (or both), WiFi 6, Intel ax adapters, USB - C, 50% better graphics output, instant on.... Etc, etc.... Yes, DEFINITELY NOT EXACTLY WHAT SURFACE FANS HAVE BEEN REQUESTING. How dare Microsoft listen to their customers!ArcadeEngineer - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Why are we still paying a big price for 'innovation' in a product that's only had spec bumps in four years?Deicidium369 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
has the laptop surface been out for 4 years?Spunjji - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
You're pounding on the concept of "premium = expensive" to avoid discussing the fact that the design is no longer innovative, has been plagued by performance, stability and driver problems throughout its existence, and - as others have noted - you can get equivalent or better quality for less.A price drop now that they've presumably amortised the costs of the design would make any and/or all of those concerns more palatable.
PeachNCream - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Agreed that the hardware is interesting, but the price is quite high. As always. someone or some company will make purchases, but for the rest of us that like seeing their net worth go up rather than own status symbol hardware, there are alternatives.Deicidium369 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
those two are not mutually exclusivePeachNCream - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
You have absolutely no idea and that much is painfully obvious from your comments.Xex360 - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
It's very disappointing that they didn't use Ryzen APUs.But anyway it's very slow to do any real work on it, plus in their wisdom (or absence of thereof) didn't include a proper keyboard with keypad.
thesavvymage - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
numpad laptops are a thing of the past. Anybody who NEEDS one probably works at a desk with a dock and can use a USB one. They take up a huge amount of keyboard space and rarely get used.drothgery - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
This is going to be a comment on every premium laptop review until either Intel gets an 8-core U-series part out on 10 nm or smaller or Ryzen starts showing up in premium notebooks, isn't it?Anyway, no one's using Ryzen in premium laptops right now. Ryzen 4xxx is the first AMD notebook chip worthy of being in a premium laptop, erm, ever (even when AMD was stacking up quite nicely vs Intel on the desktop, low power parts were another story), and premium laptops have a longer lead time than simpler value and gaming designs. Come back again next fall, especially if Intel doesn't show plans for an 8-core/15 Watt Tiger Lake.
alufan - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Funny that despite the AMD being a better product Dell etc still put intel into the best chassis with the best components wonder why that is...rebates perhapsDeicidium369 - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Most likely in response to customers... I know it's hard to believe - but the world sees AMD as a bargain bin brand - right or wrong, that is the perception.Spunjji - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
"Brands have no power to change customer perceptions of value through the products they sell" is a bold claim.Retycint - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
It's not an instant transition, especially for the average consumer that doesn't follow tech news. Ryzen and AMD still has some catching up to do with regards to brand equity.Spunjji - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
On that front I agree completely - but if that were the only obstacle, you'd expect to see Dell beginning the transition. Asus have with the G14.It's a fairly simple equation - you draw on your existing brand credibility and add a new option. You advertise its strengths. Consumers who don't follow tech news don't know the difference between AMD and Intel, but they know what "same design, more cores, faster performance, less heat" means.
Deicidium369 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
Asus itself is not perceived as a premium brand - I have never owned an Asus laptop and avoid their motherboards and video cards like the plague - but have had several Asus monitors over the years - they had the first true GSync monitor way back when.ExarKun333 - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
This. AMD made huge inroads on this from 2000-2005 and really positioned themselves as the market leader. As a big user of this site and AT's BB then, we all jumped on much earlier but that was more from enthusiasts. Then Intel's Core arrived in 2006. And Intel swiftly started shifting back the performance brand, image and raw performance leads. 5 Years ago, AMD laptop marketshare was barely existent. As someone waiting to buy a gaming laptop right now, I really want a Ryzen-powered laptop with a Nvidia GPU, which isn't available above a 1660/2060. Ill bite when it is. :)Deicidium369 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
I'm saying that Dell builds what sells - they are pretty good at it. I would never buy a Dell desktop or workstation - but for ultrabooks / 2-in-1s and monitors - I am pretty well in the Dell camplmcd - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Oh come on if you spent more than 10 seconds on Dell's website you'd know why.Dell is a corporate company through and through and every one of their laptops supports a dock. Dell docks are 90% TB3 docks. Integrating TB3 with AMD is possible but not easy right now. The turnaround time would be impossible for this laptop launch cycle.
Spunjji - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
This reply makes no sense WRT their gaming designs, though.lmcd - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
That's a fair critique, but the only gaming designs we've seen are ASUS, no? They were the preferred partner. Don't think AMD has enough "preferred partner" teams to hit up every laptop brand.Retycint - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Did you not read his comment at all? Longer lead times, due to customized components etc. Not to mention the perceived brand differences in average consumers' mindslmcd - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Why did you even reply if you can't read the comment? "And premium laptops have a longer lead time than simpler value and gaming designs."Fataliity - Sunday, June 14, 2020 - link
Renoir only came out 3 months ago. Lead times, especially for redesigning for a new motherboard and all, are about 12 months.Plus Intel has a lead in the size of their motherboard form factors for devices like this. It's not just the processor.
Spunjji - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Microsoft put AMD's last-gen chips in some of their premium devices. It's almost like they already very pointedly developed the ability to second-source even when performance leadership wasn't there...(I can actually understand them not doing so in this specific instance. They barely got their drivers functional for the Intel / Nvidia combo, I don't think they'd have a good time redoing the whole thing for AMD)
We already know that Tiger Lake is a 4-core part at 15W (TDP-down from 28W), so I guess we'll see how things look in a year's time.
Deicidium369 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
Would there be significant changes between that APU vs the 4000 series? Can't imagine MS doing it for no reason - but there are pretty long lead times ... that's a bit of a halo (no pun intended)product for MS.Spunjji - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
I genuinely don't know the answer to that. The desktop models are going to be compatible with the same socket and chipset, so I wouldn't have thought they'd need to do an extensive redesign moving from 3000 to 4000 series APUs - but then 4000 enables the use of things like LPDDR4X, so I may be entirely wrong.It's taken MS long enough to refresh this product that I'm sure you're right about the lead times.
Aisalem - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Did you ever try to use Surface Book outdoors?I can only say that as soon as the temp is over 90F (around 30C) my Book 2 will overheat and lock CPU at 800MHz, it's simply piece of junk at that time.
As much as I like it when used in cold office I will never buy another MS product due to that and also luck of proper servicing.
damianrobertjones - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Good luck with any oem as they've ALL had issues at one point in time.kenjiwing - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Does anyone know if the surface book 3 can drive two 4k displays at 60hz? The 2 could not because it used the internal intel chip instead of the nvidia one for external displays.timecop1818 - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
i7-1065G7 supports DisplayPort 1.4, so theoretically with a type-c to dual displayport converter/MST hub you should be able to do 2x 4K@60. See https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2019/10/10/dual-... for required bits.kenjiwing - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Thank you!FXi - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Just be wary because the SB2 cannot drive any external display using the 1060 GPU. Since that was not listed as an improvement of the SB3 you'll want to check carefully. You may be fine using the integrated Intel GPU to drive 2 4K displays or you may not. But no one reviewing has yet checked to see if the 1660 can drive any external connector (USB C or via the dock).kenjiwing - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Well shitdamianrobertjones - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
A full SD card slot would have been AMAZING! (Well... better, at least).amb9800 - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
It has a full-sized SD card slot...ikjadoon - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Surface Book 3 (Anandtech, 2020):"Although the Surface Book 3 can ship with the fastest SSD Microsoft has ever put in a notebook, that was not the case for the review unit, which was actually slower than the 256 GB SSD in the Surface Laptop 3."
Surface Book (Anandtech, 2015):
"On a premium device like the Surface Book, I would expect only the best, and while the drive may meet their internal performance levels, a cacheless TLC based SSD in a premium device is not necessary."
Storage really cannot be that complex a decision. There are, at most, 5-6 OEM SSDs used on high-end premium notebooks.
Glad to see platform & internal improvements and a big thank you to Microsoft for outfitting these with at least decent webcams. For the price, though:
-- no TB3 is a sore spot (Microsoft Docks are obscenely priced and come with no smaller options...not to mention how buggy they have been)
-- a *single* USB type-C port is egregious in a premium 2020 15" notebook
-- that slow charging is painful for this "executives on the move" niche market (0-80% in an hour: curious they give the one-hour charging speed instead of 30 minutes...)
Are these nitpicks? Sure. But for a device that claims to "serve the high-end market", Microsoft continuously fails to read the room in a few crucial ways.
What else can do you, besides pity Panos Panay's Steve Jobs routine?
Icehawk - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
And don’t forget if they drain the battery you can’t plug them into a dock to turn it on, you need to use a standalone charger to get it up to 10% or so first. Ugh I am not a Surface fan AT ALL. I’ve supported almost all of the models.pjcamp - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
I don't give a crap about bezels and I doubt anyone else does either, beyond tech pundits and reviewers who need something trendy to criticize. In fact, for devices to be held in the hands, like phones and tablets, bezels are a feature, not a bug, as they limit accidental activations.I own an original Surface Book, and I have a few observations about its durability.
In the end, the detachable form factor is not a good idea. It means if you want to get inside, you have to pry off the screen, a dicey proposition. It is fussy and fumbly to switch back and forth, which you really need to do if you need to change between drawing and typing as drawing in laptop mode is made quite difficult by the screen wobbling back and forth. It's best to think of this as a pure laptop.
The build quality is suspect. I've actually owned three of these things due to warranty replacements. Each of the previous ones had a power button that got stuck in the on position.
Also, I don't detach the screen very much, but the connection on all three computers became wonky. Suddenly it no longer sees the keyboard any more and announces that it is in tablet mode.
The memory wire attachment mechanism is clever, but it has gotten to the point that it doesn't work consistently. And the only recourse then is to find the one and only vent hole on the side that allows you to push a paper clip in at a 45 degree angle to force a manual release. That is clearly designed to prevent you from using it.
Batteries are not eternal but at this point my battery life with keyboard attached is down to less than two hours. That seems like an awfully quick degradation, as these things go.
The only thing that is an unmitigated good about these device, and it is a big thing, is the hi res 3:2 screen. If only Microsoft could make Windows scale appropriately instead of relying on each app to do it independently.
Spunjji - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
This pretty much summarises my understanding of the devices, from a support perspective... they're just fussy. Over-engineered would be another way of putting it. Impossible to repair, fragile, and generally not suited to regular use "in anger".A damn shame, really, as I like the concept.
Deicidium369 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
I am not sure about them being fragile - have had 10 or 11 deployed in the field, and they can at times take a beating - no failures in ~2 years - I have had my older model for going on 4, although doesn't get used that much anymore... still no issues.Spunjji - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
Your ~11 beats my 2, but of those 2 both failed - and one had intermittent GPU driver issues even when it was working.amb9800 - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
The GTX 1660 Ti Max-Q seems to be delivering better performance than expected (especially given it's a 65W part, vs. the 80W GTX 1060 Max-P in the Surface Book 2 15"), so it's not a completely worthless spec bump.That said, this would've been the perfect use case for the Ryzen 4000 U-series CPUs. Equipping the Surface Book 3 with a Ryzen 7 4800U would've allowed for performance on par with 45W 6/8-core Intel-based 15" competitors but within the Surface's 15-25W TDP budget.
Intel Ice Lake U-series is by far the biggest disappointment on this machine -- it (along with every other premium Intel-powered ultrabook) gets destroyed by the 4700U-powered $650 Acer Swift 3. The performance picture gets even worse when you look at, say, the Asus ROG Zephyrus G14, which ups the ante with the desktop-killing Ryzen 9 4900HS for under $1,500 -- with a 14" screen, solid battery life, and lower weight than even the 13" Surface Book 3.
lmcd - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
It's completely idiotic to compare a part that fits in a tablet form factor with a laptop sporting a 35W CPU. Whether the form factor is dumb or not is a different question.Worth remembering that Intel has delivered a "true SoC" platform for quite some time now. AMD's past CPUs, by comparison, weren't "true SoC" platforms and weren't even candidates to fit on this size of board. Ryzen 2x00U had an idle power bug across the platform, further removing it from candidacy.
That means the first AMD SoC the Surface Book team might've had the chance to integrate is the 3x00U. Based on how long it took for MS to integrate Ice Lake, the Surface Book 3 wouldn't get the 4700U until Christmas or later. Possibly longer considering that the 4700U is a more substantial change than Ice Lake vs past Intel SoCs.
lmcd - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Yea just found this from the Renoir intro:"AMD’s latest Ryzen mobile product is the first design the company has done that combines CPU, GPU, and IO all on a monolithic die in TSMC’s 7nm process."
Indicating that IO wasn't entirely on-board before. Surface Book 4 could theoretically have a Ryzen design.
Deicidium369 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
Would imagine that the 1 AMD design they have would be sporting the 4000 series - wonder how much of a new design was needed to support it. Thermals would be better on the 4000 vs the older designSpunjji - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
I think you've misinterpreted that - Renoir is the first AMD SoC that combines all of that *on 7nm*. I'm fairly sure Raven ridge included USB, SATA etc on-die - that's how the A300 Promontory "chipset" in the ASRock A300 does its thing.Wouldn't surprise me if the SoC had a larger package area than the Intel competitors, though. Intel have been working hard on that aspect for a few generations now.
jeremyshaw - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Does Marvell even make wifi chips anymore? I thought they sold off that product line, and good riddance, too. Those were always garbage. I'd take a single channel Realtek 802.11n solution over any Marvell Armada,.Whiteknight2020 - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Oddly, most people don't have to work in those sorts of temps.vol.2 - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Is this still using the PLS display technology?grant3 - Wednesday, June 3, 2020 - link
Premium device, premium price, and no Thunderbolt.Why? because a Micrososft executive was scared about thunderbolt being a vector for malware. Even though -Microsoft itself- has long ago patched that vulnerability in windows.
Astoundingly schizophrenic product line. Even Apple is was capable of loading up their laptops with TB ports years ago.
Deicidium369 - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
I don't think TB - outside of Apple - has much penetration in the market. There are some nice disk arrays that connect thru TB - those are platform agnostic... Think about FireWire - industry standard - pretty much Apple only.Retycint - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Lots of people use TB docks at their workplace. It's most definitely not nichelmcd - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Mostly because Dell standardized on TB3 as a way to deliver multiple monitor output over one connector.Deicidium369 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
not necessarily niche on the PC side - I confess other than the Dell 13 2-in-1s i don't own anything that is TB - looked into the docking stations - wouldn't really serve a useful purpose for me. I have been out of corp IT for quite a while now.vol.2 - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
that was my understanding as well. why bother?grant3 - Saturday, June 6, 2020 - link
"I don't think TB - outside of Apple - has much penetration in the market."That point is arguable, but regardless, thunderbolt has only upside and now downside from a usability perspective.
Now that TB has been royalty-free for a few years, there's no excuse not to include it on basically every laptop.
I hate on Apple as much as anyone, but at least we can give them credit for pushing USB forward and now pushing TB3 forward, to the benefit of everyone.
zepi - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
How was batterylife in tablet mode without the base?Brett Howse - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
Sorry I had tested that but forgot to add it to the graphs. It's there now.Wrong_again - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
It seems like an unpopular opinion but tablet devices should not have tiny bezels. For reasons that seem obvious to me.Retycint - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
The iPad Pro manages to have smaller bezels while not significantly affecting the usability. Smaller bezels does not necessarily mean tiny bezelss.yu - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
There's clearly a gap between this and "tiny". Also, again, the XPS 13 2N1 has a perfectly functional screen with arguably "tiny" bezels.PeachNCream - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Tablets aren't really even a thing anymore. Hardly any company makes a credible attempt at producing one outside of the usual iFruits and Microsoft (I guess Google has Chrome-based hardware too if you like giving your personal information to the creepiest company on the planet). There are still a few 2-in-1 systems around and ultra low budget Android devices, plus a couple of laptops with questionably glossy touchscreens for reasons only the OEM can fully understand, but in general terms, tablets - Windows ones moreso than others - have been taken out back and shot, then tossed into a shallow grave with a bunch of other tech fads that failed to take enduring root.It is unexpected to watch Microsoft continue to release new models in a form factor that is laying in the desert, gasping its last parched air before failing to pull a Clint Eastwood-style survival montage. They already transitioned partly to clamshell designs to hedge the Surface brand name. It really is odd to see them clinging to the touch-everywhere bad old days of Windows 8.
lazybum131 - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
"It really is odd to see them clinging to the touch-everywhere bad old days of Windows 8."If only Microsoft actually did, then the tablet experience with Win 10 wouldn't be so poor. On Windows pure and detachable tablets aren't strong because the tablet experience just isn't good or polished even for built-in basic functions, let alone the barren app Store. Add in the slow progress on low-tdp chips that would actually enable portable designs.
lmcd - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
Intel's Lakefield could change the story there -- aside from the Intel tax with the experimental-technology surcharge, it could fit in 8 inch tablets. Based on the Surface Neo delay, I'd assume it's using a Lakefield chip.Microsoft's lack of good tablet software in the store boils down to the .NET team absolutely ignoring everything the Windows team would prioritize. Windows 10X doubles down on UWP while the .NET team hasn't released an up-to-date AOT compiler and C# project format in over 2 years.
Deicidium369 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
I will probably use the tablet mode on the 13 2-in-1 about as much as on the previous model - not much at all - but when needed (stocking up at a Spec's type place for a party) it is very useful. But yeah the time of the tablets looks to be over.Deicidium369 - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
would be obvious 1st time it got dropped...raju516 - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
I have a surface laptop 3. It has horrible glossy, highly reflective display and windows makes matters worse by rendering the font greyish, which cause headaches after short time. went back to my MacBook Procpufrost - Thursday, June 4, 2020 - link
It's a nice kit but really, they need black keys.Pyrostemplar - Friday, June 5, 2020 - link
I have the Surface Book 2 and simply love it. Now, a Ryzen 4800U with 32GB and 1TB NVMe drive would be a great replacement :)jabber - Sunday, June 7, 2020 - link
All good till it goes out of warranty and needs repairing. Landfill ahoy.regsEx - Sunday, June 7, 2020 - link
Lack of keypad is DOA.damianrobertjones - Friday, June 12, 2020 - link
For you.khanikun - Sunday, June 7, 2020 - link
It would be nice to see them increase the base size thickness a little, just to get a better cooling solution in there. I have the Surface Book 2 with the 1060. Works fine, but the fans are pretty loud when gaming. I don't expect it to be silent, but would be nice for it to be a few more db quieter.mkozakewich - Wednesday, June 10, 2020 - link
The Surface Book 2 was routinely using 12 Watts of power when the GTX 1050 was idling, so it would be really great if Surface Book 3 with 1660 Ti only uses 5.7 to 8 Watts. (I also wonder if it would last twice as long with the dGPU disabled, like the Surface Book 2 does.)rdgoodri - Friday, June 12, 2020 - link
Quadcorecomadre23 - Monday, June 22, 2020 - link
I have the same computer but went i go to this site https://libroslara.com/ i donde have audiobrodyjohn - Thursday, September 3, 2020 - link
I'm pretty surprised that the review doesn't mention that the Surface Book 3 repeats the biggest design problem that I've experienced over the last year of using a Surface Book 2 at work: the location of the thermal exhaust for the GPU. This thermal exhaust location is adequate when the system connected in a "laptop" orientation, but, when the screen is reversed and folded down on top of the keyboard, the hinge and the screen completely cover the GPU's thermal exhaust.This limits the user to using the stylus in situations that don't demand much "oomph" in the graphics department, e.g. taking notes. If one wants to use the stylus for medium-duty art applications, one must choose between forgoing the GPU, awkwardly using the stylus on a laptop-style screen configuration, or choking the GPU thermal exhausts with the back of the screen, causing performance degradation and overheating. I don't think this would show up in your benchmark tests, but it at least deserves mention in the text!
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