bridge chips are cheap. When PCIe first came out they only added a few dollars to the retail price and served to allow quick and dirty ports of lots of basic cards. Today the R&D is long paid for; so they should be even cheaper.
AFAIK The serial port is powered by the same SuperIO chip that powers the PS2 ports; making it less of a big deal because the controller is already onboard. Fun fact, the same chip also offers support for a parrallel port and floppy controller, and got its name because in the 90s combining all the stuff it did into a single chip instead of several addon cards was a big deal.
I have 3 RME interfaces over time here 2 of which are PCIe and one is PCI. For outboard they now have TB/USB3, previous was FW/USB2 or PCIe. But I still have a PCI based HDSP+Multiface I breakout box which matches the 2 PCIe HDSPe+Multiface II boxes I have as well. Similarly I have Korg and Scope DSP interfaces, and the Scope ones still rock but need a 100% solid PCI implementation.
Certainly not needed on a Gamer board and HTPC is an iffy market for PCI as well, but I suppose there might be some thought that an HTPC focused board might also get grabbed up by someone that is using PCI for other 'weird industry specific shit' like olderl ribbon/thermal printers or etc.
Weird industry shit is a lot more than just audio; and the previos posters Xonar ST was marketed to prosumers/audiophools not audio producers like your RME cards appear to be.
And for industrial cases I'd expect to have a small number of boards available for years to come. You can get an LGA1155 (Sandy/Ivybridge) board with an ISA slot despite it being an essentially dead interface since sometime in the 90s. I'm just surprised that this long after PCIe displaced legacy PCI on mass market boards that it's still showing up in as widely as it is.
Every DJ, music producer and record studio connect their equipment via USB. All high end external DAC's are USB. Not sure what you are getting at with fast, accurate timing. Maybe for gaming, in which case who cares about fine tuned precision lossless 192khz audio quality. And if you do, there are solutions, and they are USB and work excellent.
They seem to be very slim pickings on the AMD side. I went to newegg and filtered for AM4 and PCI. Most of the boards found were out of stock/only available used/refurbed. The tally was 1x 570. 1x 450. 1x 370 (with 3 listings). And a few 350/320 boards.
On the intel side I looked at 300 series chipsets since the 400's aren't listed yet. There were about 70 boards; but almost entirely low/mid end models. Only a single Z370 model.
Unfortunately I think you're going to have to budget for a new sound card when you finally upgrade unless you can find some sort of riser based adapter. And there unless you want to do some substantial case modding, you'd be limited to an mATX board in a full ATX case. (Install the sound card in one of the empty openings at the bottom.)
Yeah, thats more or less what I was expecting :(. I'd like to go full mATX too, so if I don't dump the ST, a ribbon adapter and some modding may be in order.
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judging by the size of the VRMs, I suspect if you put one in; it would end up not being able to turbo much above the nominal 95W level and end up performing about the same as the non K model. Any modest gains would be down to more power efficient binning.
Probably more reasonable to use a T-series CPU for this particular board and build a quiet and capable system around a 35W part. Were I planning to build something around this sort of board, that's where I would probably end up.
I also don't think many OEMs will use this particular board. The bigger companies roll their own or contract their own to spec from a third party. Crack open a Dell or HP and you'll find a Dell or HP motherboard for instance. A few little fish would maybe buy small volumes, but I think Biostar is targeting sales to Amazon, NewEgg, and other companies for purchase by Joe Average that still wants to build a budget desktop from components. Maybe there would be a little mom and pop computer store buyer in that mix too.
One of these might be a good solution for a future desktop gaming PC. It checks all the right boxes IF the price is decent. Pair up a i3-whatever with a 1030, stuff in some RAM and a a reasonably priced source of entertainment is to be had. The only trouble is finding a cheap mATX case and power supply combo deal these days so that may require a second hand purchase someplace which is sort of yucky to do given the kinds of icky people that are in the world today selling their stuff.
this looks like what i want from a 500 series AMD... no PCI-E 4.0. just out of the box Zen 2 APU compatibility and a PCI-E 16x slot (+ some 1x) and hopefully something below $60. not for myself, but for someone i'm suggesting a build for for whom an MSI B450 with their USB BIOS flashback and "mid range" VRM isn't in the budget.
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DanNeely - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
I'm surprised legacy PCI hasn't moved from mass market boards to specialty legacy compatibility models yet.Flunk - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
It's particularly strange because modern chipsets don't even support PCI. They need to put an additional controller on the board to support it.DanNeely - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
bridge chips are cheap. When PCIe first came out they only added a few dollars to the retail price and served to allow quick and dirty ports of lots of basic cards. Today the R&D is long paid for; so they should be even cheaper.BedfordTim - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
BioStar may also be targeting the industrial market where there are still a lot of old cards people need support for.Samus - Saturday, May 30, 2020 - link
^^^Thisesoel_ - Saturday, May 30, 2020 - link
Yeah that board has a serial port too.DanNeely - Monday, June 1, 2020 - link
AFAIK The serial port is powered by the same SuperIO chip that powers the PS2 ports; making it less of a big deal because the controller is already onboard. Fun fact, the same chip also offers support for a parrallel port and floppy controller, and got its name because in the 90s combining all the stuff it did into a single chip instead of several addon cards was a big deal.brucethemoose - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
I still have a PCI Xonar ST. And TBH, the first feature I'll look for on a Zen 3 or Sunny/Willow cove board is PCI.But thats a heck of a niche use case. IDK what everyone else is using those PCI slots for, as audio is just about the only thing that ages well.
Operandi - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
Audio should be external to the PC.The only real use for legacy interfaces is for legacy hardware that can't be replaced, so weird industry specific shit.
Scalarscience - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
weird industry specific shit = audioI have 3 RME interfaces over time here 2 of which are PCIe and one is PCI. For outboard they now have TB/USB3, previous was FW/USB2 or PCIe. But I still have a PCI based HDSP+Multiface I breakout box which matches the 2 PCIe HDSPe+Multiface II boxes I have as well. Similarly I have Korg and Scope DSP interfaces, and the Scope ones still rock but need a 100% solid PCI implementation.
Certainly not needed on a Gamer board and HTPC is an iffy market for PCI as well, but I suppose there might be some thought that an HTPC focused board might also get grabbed up by someone that is using PCI for other 'weird industry specific shit' like olderl ribbon/thermal printers or etc.
DanNeely - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
Weird industry shit is a lot more than just audio; and the previos posters Xonar ST was marketed to prosumers/audiophools not audio producers like your RME cards appear to be.And for industrial cases I'd expect to have a small number of boards available for years to come. You can get an LGA1155 (Sandy/Ivybridge) board with an ISA slot despite it being an essentially dead interface since sometime in the 90s. I'm just surprised that this long after PCIe displaced legacy PCI on mass market boards that it's still showing up in as widely as it is.
https://adek.com/product/MS-98A9
esoel_ - Saturday, May 30, 2020 - link
Omg that board is beautiful 😂lmcd - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
Honestly what a joke. Audio processing needs fast, accurate timings and clean power. USB isn't the interface, PCIe is, and PCI also is.It's only legacy because you don't care about it personally.
Samus - Saturday, May 30, 2020 - link
Every DJ, music producer and record studio connect their equipment via USB. All high end external DAC's are USB. Not sure what you are getting at with fast, accurate timing. Maybe for gaming, in which case who cares about fine tuned precision lossless 192khz audio quality. And if you do, there are solutions, and they are USB and work excellent.DanNeely - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
They seem to be very slim pickings on the AMD side. I went to newegg and filtered for AM4 and PCI. Most of the boards found were out of stock/only available used/refurbed. The tally was 1x 570. 1x 450. 1x 370 (with 3 listings). And a few 350/320 boards.On the intel side I looked at 300 series chipsets since the 400's aren't listed yet. There were about 70 boards; but almost entirely low/mid end models. Only a single Z370 model.
Unfortunately I think you're going to have to budget for a new sound card when you finally upgrade unless you can find some sort of riser based adapter. And there unless you want to do some substantial case modding, you'd be limited to an mATX board in a full ATX case. (Install the sound card in one of the empty openings at the bottom.)
brucethemoose - Saturday, May 30, 2020 - link
Yeah, thats more or less what I was expecting :(. I'd like to go full mATX too, so if I don't dump the ST, a ribbon adapter and some modding may be in order.laurakmullinax - Tuesday, June 9, 2020 - link
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I was without work for 6 months when my former Co-worker finally recommended me to start freelancing from home… It was only after I earned $5000 in my first month when I actually believed I could do this for a living! Now I am happier than ever… I work from home and I am my own boss now like I always wanted…Everytime I see someone like that I say START FREELANCING MAN! This is where I started. WWW. iⅭash68.ⅭＯⅯRaistlinZ - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
I'm guessing these will only be used by OEM's to pair with 10th gen i3-xxxx CPUs. Can these even run a 10900K CPU?DanNeely - Friday, May 29, 2020 - link
judging by the size of the VRMs, I suspect if you put one in; it would end up not being able to turbo much above the nominal 95W level and end up performing about the same as the non K model. Any modest gains would be down to more power efficient binning.PeachNCream - Saturday, May 30, 2020 - link
Probably more reasonable to use a T-series CPU for this particular board and build a quiet and capable system around a 35W part. Were I planning to build something around this sort of board, that's where I would probably end up.I also don't think many OEMs will use this particular board. The bigger companies roll their own or contract their own to spec from a third party. Crack open a Dell or HP and you'll find a Dell or HP motherboard for instance. A few little fish would maybe buy small volumes, but I think Biostar is targeting sales to Amazon, NewEgg, and other companies for purchase by Joe Average that still wants to build a budget desktop from components. Maybe there would be a little mom and pop computer store buyer in that mix too.
PeachNCream - Saturday, May 30, 2020 - link
One of these might be a good solution for a future desktop gaming PC. It checks all the right boxes IF the price is decent. Pair up a i3-whatever with a 1030, stuff in some RAM and a a reasonably priced source of entertainment is to be had. The only trouble is finding a cheap mATX case and power supply combo deal these days so that may require a second hand purchase someplace which is sort of yucky to do given the kinds of icky people that are in the world today selling their stuff.YB1064 - Sunday, May 31, 2020 - link
Decent board for 30 bucks.plonk420 - Tuesday, June 2, 2020 - link
this looks like what i want from a 500 series AMD... no PCI-E 4.0. just out of the box Zen 2 APU compatibility and a PCI-E 16x slot (+ some 1x) and hopefully something below $60. not for myself, but for someone i'm suggesting a build for for whom an MSI B450 with their USB BIOS flashback and "mid range" VRM isn't in the budget.