Also, does MediaTek support their chipsets for a long time, or do they enable vendors to use the "no binary blobs were provided from upstream, so no N+2 Android update for you!" excuse?
Why have we not seen any devices with the D1000 proper? Did something go wrong with the initial batch of D1000s, forcing MediaTek to bin them lower and sell them as D1000Ls?
My suspicion is that the initial 7nm wafers (big lot) were bought by Apple at a premium. The next segment (small lot) was bought by HiSilicon. Then the third segment (big lot) was bought by Qualcomm. Afterwards the fourth segment (small lot) was bought by ATi-AMD. And the fifth batch (big lot) was bought by AMD-Zen.
MediaTek didn't have enough money to purchase them at the quantities and prices dictated by TSMC. I think MediaTek's plans for the Dimensity is foremost to get their name and reputation out there, that they can compete with the big dogs. Providing a competent chipset is less of a concern.
Rant: The ironic part is that even the D-1000L seems better than the Exynos 990/995 of the S20/Note20. Heck I'd choose a Kirin 980 instead, but unnecessary when the Snapdragon 865 is available. I think people are more concerned about COVID19 than news about processors so their gamble/paper-launch hasn't really paid off.
I would commend MediaTek if they end up releasing the D1000 chips proper, and provide documentation, drivers, and source code freely for developers. They've been so paranoid about losing "code work" to their competitors (RockChip, AMLogic, Allwinner, VIA, etc etc) that they blatantly broke copyright laws/GPL. But they've been "untouchable" to conform to GPL since they're based in China, similar to many other companies that don't honour intellectual property.
Laws don't work like you think... 1st : Mediatek doesn't sell you anything...they needn't provide you any sources. Mediatek has to provide source to OEM 2nd : OEM sell you phones, they have to provide you sources 3rd : go on Github you fill find sources for most devices sold in western countries and equiped by Mediatek's (redmi 6/6A Oreo/Pie, Redmi Note 8 Pro Pie/10, Oppo A3, Reno Z, Reno 2Z, Realme C3, , 3, 6, Nokia 1, 3, 3.1, 5.1, 5.1 Plus...)...and only need a few minutes in order to. 4th : if you break law, you're condemned in countries where you break it, not in the country you come from. Saying Mediatek is untouchable is a wrong analysis. 5th : Mediatek is Taiwanese, not Chinese.
MediaTek is compiling and distributing a GPL-licensed piece of software with modifications outside of their organization, without releasing the modifications. The GPL requires that they release the modifications. Therefore, they need to provide the sources to the device manufacturer, and *must not hinder* their further distribution.
When the device manufacturer is a SBC maker, they have still refused to release the sources.
Based on my experience with their older Helios, I feel the products are generally decent in performance vs price. However I don't recall seeing any software updates from them, although that could be due to the mid low end phone I got previously.
> The chip also currently is the only mobile chip this year that support AV1 hardware decoding, an interesting feature that makes MediaTek’s offerings more future-proof than other chipsets.
...unless their AV1 implementation gobbles so much power that you'd be better off just streaming H.265/VP9/whatever.
Oh boy, the irrational AV1 fanboy has crawled out of his hole.
Seriously, WTF? I'm just saying that the mere fact that it supports AV1 doesn't automatically mean you'll want to use it. How does that in any way make me "the anti-AV1 weirdo"? I never said AV1 was bad. Not in this thread or any other.
Check yourself, dude. All this quarantining must be getting to you.
Hardware decode should use less power than using AV1 without hardware decode, and you still get a bitrate benefit. YouTube will move to AV1 so there's your need for future proofing.
I understand the benefits of hard-wired logic. It could still burn quite a lot of power, though.
If you're not using it in a bandwidth-limited setting (i.e. wifi), then you might prefer a less dense codec that's much cheaper to decode. Otherwise, it could run down your battery fast, or even generate enough heat to be uncomfortable to hold.
This is a pessimistic scenario, for sure. I'm not saying it's the most likely, but it explains why we should reserve judgement until a handset with the feature is properly reviewed.
Yea AV1 might be good for things like Netflix, but I'm frustrated by its future use for streaming and community video sharing (Youtube, etc). Yes, those sites are already entrenched, but AV1 will further entrench them due to the expense of encoding to AV1.
I hope it doesn't and comes out to be the hero feature of the Mediatek dimensity 1000 chip. Hoping to see phones in the market with Dimensity 1000 and more with Dimensity 1000+ chips
They're not. IIRC these are results released from a previous review in which Andrei mentioned that their D1000 is spared from their otherwise series-wide benchmark cheating.
The real problem of this SOC is only one thing: Mali GPU. It's garbage GPU, I think many guys out there should be looking only for PowerVR GPU which far far better than this garbage one.
I have to admit that I was wondering if the "+" didn't refer to something like upgrading the GPU to PowerVR. However, I'm guessing ARM has a licensing model that probably makes it unappealing to use their CPU cores and *not* their Mali GPUs.
Mali GPU becomes stronger and stronger... Between G76 double the performances compare to G72 And G77 raises by 30%
OK it seems Samsung has some problem on Exynos...but as Helio G90T can handle some game with G76mp4 better than Exynos 990 with G77mp11 we can ask US some questions.
Iqoo is the gaming sub-brand of Vivo and will be the first to use D1000+... They probably consider G77mp9 is enough to be used on gaming. I think it's the soc to test....on several games (to prevent any application à abnormal behavior)
Mali has multiple benefits for an SoC vendor - the benefits of a single source for your GPU and CPU and associated drivers, benefits of ARM doing qualification with foundries, and the benefits of a GPU designed for area-efficiency over and above other concerns. It makes sense for MediaTek to use them, which is a shame, because those Imagination Tech GPUs really do deserve to be in more devices.
I think it will be able to provide affordable 5G options to users with this series which is nice, but is the Dimensity 1000+ supposed to be the higher variant in this series or at par with the existing Dimensity 1000 ?
What exactly is your question? If it's not the higher variant, then why release it? It's just binning. 1000+ has slightly higher frequency and the 1000L lower frequency than the 1000. The 1000L has then additionaly cut down the GPU to 7 clusters. It's all the same silicon.
Dying to see more Dimensity 1000/L performance data - the results here are promising (Mediatek benchmark cheating notwithstanding) and Qualcomm desperately needs some competition, even if it isn't fully toe-to-toe.
There's a mistake in this article : Dimensity 1000 isn't category 19 DL, but LTE cat. 18 DL.
"1) Dimensity 1000 and 800 series chips support LTE up to Category 18 downlink and Category 13 uplink. This means up to 1.2Gbps of performance, which is faster than most 4G smartphones on the market.
LTE DL Cat-18 up to 1.2Gbps with 4CC Carrier Aggregation, 4X4, 256QAM LTE UL Cat-13 up to 150Mbps with 2CC Carrier Aggregation, 64QAM"
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jeremyshaw - Thursday, May 7, 2020 - link
I think we all know the question each of us have.Also, does MediaTek support their chipsets for a long time, or do they enable vendors to use the "no binary blobs were provided from upstream, so no N+2 Android update for you!" excuse?
anonym - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
That depends on handset manufacturer. Nokia and some didRoyceTrentRolls - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
Why have we not seen any devices with the D1000 proper? Did something go wrong with the initial batch of D1000s, forcing MediaTek to bin them lower and sell them as D1000Ls?Kangal - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
My suspicion is that the initial 7nm wafers (big lot) were bought by Apple at a premium.The next segment (small lot) was bought by HiSilicon.
Then the third segment (big lot) was bought by Qualcomm.
Afterwards the fourth segment (small lot) was bought by ATi-AMD.
And the fifth batch (big lot) was bought by AMD-Zen.
MediaTek didn't have enough money to purchase them at the quantities and prices dictated by TSMC. I think MediaTek's plans for the Dimensity is foremost to get their name and reputation out there, that they can compete with the big dogs. Providing a competent chipset is less of a concern.
Kangal - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
Rant:The ironic part is that even the D-1000L seems better than the Exynos 990/995 of the S20/Note20. Heck I'd choose a Kirin 980 instead, but unnecessary when the Snapdragon 865 is available. I think people are more concerned about COVID19 than news about processors so their gamble/paper-launch hasn't really paid off.
I would commend MediaTek if they end up releasing the D1000 chips proper, and provide documentation, drivers, and source code freely for developers. They've been so paranoid about losing "code work" to their competitors (RockChip, AMLogic, Allwinner, VIA, etc etc) that they blatantly broke copyright laws/GPL. But they've been "untouchable" to conform to GPL since they're based in China, similar to many other companies that don't honour intellectual property.
Plumplum - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
Laws don't work like you think...1st : Mediatek doesn't sell you anything...they needn't provide you any sources. Mediatek has to provide source to OEM
2nd : OEM sell you phones, they have to provide you sources
3rd : go on Github you fill find sources for most devices sold in western countries and equiped by Mediatek's (redmi 6/6A Oreo/Pie, Redmi Note 8 Pro Pie/10, Oppo A3, Reno Z, Reno 2Z, Realme C3, , 3, 6, Nokia 1, 3, 3.1, 5.1, 5.1 Plus...)...and only need a few minutes in order to.
4th : if you break law, you're condemned in countries where you break it, not in the country you come from. Saying Mediatek is untouchable is a wrong analysis.
5th : Mediatek is Taiwanese, not Chinese.
Sharma_Ji - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
"Their source are not compiling", as some of my dev friends quote.Plumplum - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
It seems indians succeed in doing custom ROM for Redmi Note 8 Pro, isn't it...I heard some problems but related to vendors not to soc?
lmcd - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
MediaTek is compiling and distributing a GPL-licensed piece of software with modifications outside of their organization, without releasing the modifications. The GPL requires that they release the modifications. Therefore, they need to provide the sources to the device manufacturer, and *must not hinder* their further distribution.When the device manufacturer is a SBC maker, they have still refused to release the sources.
watzupken - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
Based on my experience with their older Helios, I feel the products are generally decent in performance vs price. However I don't recall seeing any software updates from them, although that could be due to the mid low end phone I got previously.mode_13h - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
> The chip also currently is the only mobile chip this year that support AV1 hardware decoding, an interesting feature that makes MediaTek’s offerings more future-proof than other chipsets....unless their AV1 implementation gobbles so much power that you'd be better off just streaming H.265/VP9/whatever.
nandnandnand - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
Oh boy, the anti-AV1 weirdo has crawled out of his hole.mode_13h - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
Oh boy, the irrational AV1 fanboy has crawled out of his hole.Seriously, WTF? I'm just saying that the mere fact that it supports AV1 doesn't automatically mean you'll want to use it. How does that in any way make me "the anti-AV1 weirdo"? I never said AV1 was bad. Not in this thread or any other.
Check yourself, dude. All this quarantining must be getting to you.
nandnandnand - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
Sorry, I mixed you up with another user.Hardware decode should use less power than using AV1 without hardware decode, and you still get a bitrate benefit. YouTube will move to AV1 so there's your need for future proofing.
mode_13h - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
Thanks, for clarifying.I understand the benefits of hard-wired logic. It could still burn quite a lot of power, though.
If you're not using it in a bandwidth-limited setting (i.e. wifi), then you might prefer a less dense codec that's much cheaper to decode. Otherwise, it could run down your battery fast, or even generate enough heat to be uncomfortable to hold.
This is a pessimistic scenario, for sure. I'm not saying it's the most likely, but it explains why we should reserve judgement until a handset with the feature is properly reviewed.
mode_13h - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
After looking at software decoding benchmarks of AV1, I see it's not as bad as I thought. So, maybe this will be a non-issue.mode_13h - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
Encoding is just insane, though.lmcd - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
Yea AV1 might be good for things like Netflix, but I'm frustrated by its future use for streaming and community video sharing (Youtube, etc). Yes, those sites are already entrenched, but AV1 will further entrench them due to the expense of encoding to AV1.mode_13h - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
Basically, any tech spec should be viewed with skepticism, until it's tested. Especially for bleeding-edge features. That's just common sense.gurukiran0027 - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
I hope it doesn't and comes out to be the hero feature of the Mediatek dimensity 1000 chip. Hoping to see phones in the market with Dimensity 1000 and more with Dimensity 1000+ chipsdanjw - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
Do we know if they are cheating on the benchmarks above?s.yu - Sunday, May 10, 2020 - link
They're not. IIRC these are results released from a previous review in which Andrei mentioned that their D1000 is spared from their otherwise series-wide benchmark cheating.eastcoast_pete - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
Thanks Andrei! Did I miss that Oppo Reno review, or is it still to come?lucam - Friday, May 8, 2020 - link
The real problem of this SOC is only one thing: Mali GPU.It's garbage GPU, I think many guys out there should be looking only for PowerVR GPU which far far better than this garbage one.
mode_13h - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
I have to admit that I was wondering if the "+" didn't refer to something like upgrading the GPU to PowerVR. However, I'm guessing ARM has a licensing model that probably makes it unappealing to use their CPU cores and *not* their Mali GPUs.lucam - Monday, May 11, 2020 - link
I was hoping the same. It’s frustrating seeing many variations and iterations of this bad GPU..Plumplum - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
Mali GPU becomes stronger and stronger...Between G76 double the performances compare to G72
And G77 raises by 30%
OK it seems Samsung has some problem on Exynos...but as Helio G90T can handle some game with G76mp4 better than Exynos 990 with G77mp11 we can ask US some questions.
Iqoo is the gaming sub-brand of Vivo and will be the first to use D1000+...
They probably consider G77mp9 is enough to be used on gaming.
I think it's the soc to test....on several games (to prevent any application à abnormal behavior)
lucam - Monday, May 11, 2020 - link
But it never will be as fast and efficient as PowerVR.See IPhones, their GPUs are, at least , 2 generations ahead...
Spunjji - Monday, May 11, 2020 - link
Mali has multiple benefits for an SoC vendor - the benefits of a single source for your GPU and CPU and associated drivers, benefits of ARM doing qualification with foundries, and the benefits of a GPU designed for area-efficiency over and above other concerns. It makes sense for MediaTek to use them, which is a shame, because those Imagination Tech GPUs really do deserve to be in more devices.lucam - Monday, May 11, 2020 - link
I do believe the same.I think giving license to Apple it has given many restrictions to other vendors..
Reyansh_M - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
I think it will be able to provide affordable 5G options to users with this series which is nice, but is the Dimensity 1000+ supposed to be the higher variant in this series or at par with the existing Dimensity 1000 ?KarlKastor - Sunday, May 10, 2020 - link
What exactly is your question? If it's not the higher variant, then why release it?It's just binning. 1000+ has slightly higher frequency and the 1000L lower frequency than the 1000. The 1000L has then additionaly cut down the GPU to 7 clusters. It's all the same silicon.
Ramandeep Singh - Saturday, May 9, 2020 - link
I think MediaTek is up with some really good 5G chipsets of late and this one is perhaps the best of all. Looks really powerful.[ECHO] - Monday, May 11, 2020 - link
Dying to see more Dimensity 1000/L performance data - the results here are promising (Mediatek benchmark cheating notwithstanding) and Qualcomm desperately needs some competition, even if it isn't fully toe-to-toe.Nemoditur - Tuesday, October 27, 2020 - link
There's a mistake in this article : Dimensity 1000 isn't category 19 DL, but LTE cat. 18 DL."1) Dimensity 1000 and 800 series chips support LTE up to Category 18 downlink and Category 13 uplink. This means up to 1.2Gbps of performance, which is faster than most 4G smartphones on the market.
LTE DL Cat-18 up to 1.2Gbps with 4CC Carrier Aggregation, 4X4, 256QAM
LTE UL Cat-13 up to 150Mbps with 2CC Carrier Aggregation, 64QAM"
From https://www.mediatek.com/blog/do-5g-smartphones-su...