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I wonder how much of this can be placed in a firmware update for Thunderbolt 3 devices, at least the ones with x4 lanes. They're clearly capable of producing a 40Gb/s digital signal already.
None of it. All Thunderbolt 3 controllers are 4 lanes (2 dual-simplex channels) per port, however, the PHYs are not compatible with DP 2.0 or USB4 signaling.
Despite what the article may imply, Thunderbolt 3 is **NOT** the physical layer for USB4, DisplayPort 2.0, or anything other than Thunderbolt 3. Thunderbolt uses slightly different signaling rates and encoding schemes than those other protocols, which is why compatibility with Thunderbolt 3 systems is only an optional aspect of the USB4 specification.
In reality, the PHY situation for USB4 with Thunderbolt 3 and DisplayPort 2.0 Alt Modes is quite complicated. You have a single USB Type-C port that needs to support all of the following modes on the high-speed signaling pairs:
USB4 Gen 3 (20 Gbit/s with 128b/132b encoding or RS(198,194) FEC, 4 pairs as 2 bonded, dual-simplex lanes) USB4 Gen 2 (10 Gbit/s with 64b/66b encoding or RS(198,194) FEC, 4 pairs as 2 bonded, dual-simplex lanes) USB3 Gen 2 x 2 (10 Gbit/s with 128b/132b encoding, 4 pairs as 2 bonded, dual-simplex lanes) USB3 Gen 2 x 1 (10 Gbit/s with 128b/132b encoding, 2 pairs as 1 dual-simplex lane) USB3 Gen 1 x 2 (5 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding, 4 pairs as 2 bonded, dual-simplex lanes) USB3 Gen 1 x 1 (5 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding, 2 pairs as 1 dual-simplex lane) TBT3 (20.625 Gbit/s with 64b/66b encoding, 4 pairs as 2 bonded, dual-simplex channels) TBT2 (10.3125 Gbit/s with 64b/66b encoding, 4 pairs as 2 bonded, dual-simplex channels) TBT (10.3125 Gbit/s with 64b/66b encoding, 2/4 pairs as 1 or 2 dual-simplex channels) DP UHBR 20 (20 Gbit/s with 128b/132b encoding plus RS-FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link) DP UHBR 13.5 (13.5 Gbit/s with 128b/132b encoding plus RS-FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link) DP UHBR 10 (10 Gbit/s with 128b/132b encoding plus RS-FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link) DP HBR3 (8.1 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding plus optional RS(254,250) FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link) DP HBR2 (5.4 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding plus optional RS(254,250) FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link) DP HBR (2.7 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding plus optional RS(254,250) FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link) DP RBR (1.62 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding plus optional RS(254,250) FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link)
Hopefully Thunderbolt 4 controllers, redrivers, and retimers will be able to handle all of the above so end users don't have to worry about it.
Thunderbolt is a high-speed, point-to-point serial link. The controllers connect to the host PC or peripheral device via PCIe and DisplayPort and use protocol adapters to transport the PCIe and DisplayPort packets over the Thunderbolt link.
USB4 is only conceptually built off of Thunderbolt and differs in terms of the specific implementation. Like Thunderbolt, it is also a tunneling protocol using high-speed serial links. The signaling rates and encoding schemes are very close but not identical to those used by Thunderbolt. Also USB4 is capable of tunneling USB in addition to PCIe and DisplayPort packets.
Thunderbolt 3 controllers support USB 3.1 Gen 2, however they do so by including an integrated USB 3.1 host controller which is connected to a built-in PCIe switch. USB functions are then tunneled across Thunderbolt links as PCIe packets. USB4 can tunnel USB traffic natively without conversion to PCIe.
We can indeed now, over a single port, run power, "traditional" USB, PCIe, ethernet, and display!
Now we just need to clean up the godawful mess that is cables and ports with some, but not all, capabilities. Honestly that's ALL the USB5 spec should be -- a set of a few simple rules for color coding ports and cables according to what they can and can't do.
Mandatory marking of ports, some CLEARLY visible marking. As resident non-practicing computer geek, I was yesterday called to the conference room to assist s user struggling with a usb-c to dp cavle
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DanNeely - Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - link
@Ryan the sites twitter feed is down again.Ryan Smith - Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - link
Aye. It's something we're working on. Should have it fixed tomorrow.hildegardrdungan - Monday, May 11, 2020 - link
Make money online from home extra cash more than $18k to $21k. Start getting paid every month Thousands Dollars online. I have received $26K in this month by just working online from home in my part time.every person easily do this job by just open this link and follow details on this page to get started… WWW.iⅭash68.ⅭＯⅯWrong_again - Friday, May 1, 2020 - link
I wonder how much of this can be placed in a firmware update for Thunderbolt 3 devices, at least the ones with x4 lanes. They're clearly capable of producing a 40Gb/s digital signal already.repoman27 - Friday, May 1, 2020 - link
None of it. All Thunderbolt 3 controllers are 4 lanes (2 dual-simplex channels) per port, however, the PHYs are not compatible with DP 2.0 or USB4 signaling.Despite what the article may imply, Thunderbolt 3 is **NOT** the physical layer for USB4, DisplayPort 2.0, or anything other than Thunderbolt 3. Thunderbolt uses slightly different signaling rates and encoding schemes than those other protocols, which is why compatibility with Thunderbolt 3 systems is only an optional aspect of the USB4 specification.
In reality, the PHY situation for USB4 with Thunderbolt 3 and DisplayPort 2.0 Alt Modes is quite complicated. You have a single USB Type-C port that needs to support all of the following modes on the high-speed signaling pairs:
USB4 Gen 3 (20 Gbit/s with 128b/132b encoding or RS(198,194) FEC, 4 pairs as 2 bonded, dual-simplex lanes)
USB4 Gen 2 (10 Gbit/s with 64b/66b encoding or RS(198,194) FEC, 4 pairs as 2 bonded, dual-simplex lanes)
USB3 Gen 2 x 2 (10 Gbit/s with 128b/132b encoding, 4 pairs as 2 bonded, dual-simplex lanes)
USB3 Gen 2 x 1 (10 Gbit/s with 128b/132b encoding, 2 pairs as 1 dual-simplex lane)
USB3 Gen 1 x 2 (5 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding, 4 pairs as 2 bonded, dual-simplex lanes)
USB3 Gen 1 x 1 (5 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding, 2 pairs as 1 dual-simplex lane)
TBT3 (20.625 Gbit/s with 64b/66b encoding, 4 pairs as 2 bonded, dual-simplex channels)
TBT2 (10.3125 Gbit/s with 64b/66b encoding, 4 pairs as 2 bonded, dual-simplex channels)
TBT (10.3125 Gbit/s with 64b/66b encoding, 2/4 pairs as 1 or 2 dual-simplex channels)
DP UHBR 20 (20 Gbit/s with 128b/132b encoding plus RS-FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link)
DP UHBR 13.5 (13.5 Gbit/s with 128b/132b encoding plus RS-FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link)
DP UHBR 10 (10 Gbit/s with 128b/132b encoding plus RS-FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link)
DP HBR3 (8.1 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding plus optional RS(254,250) FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link)
DP HBR2 (5.4 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding plus optional RS(254,250) FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link)
DP HBR (2.7 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding plus optional RS(254,250) FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link)
DP RBR (1.62 Gbit/s with 8b/10b encoding plus optional RS(254,250) FEC, 1/2/4 pairs as 1 simplex main link)
Hopefully Thunderbolt 4 controllers, redrivers, and retimers will be able to handle all of the above so end users don't have to worry about it.
Mobile-Dom - Saturday, May 2, 2020 - link
so does that mean USB is now PCIe based? it kinda has to if it's built off of Thunderbolt 3 right?repoman27 - Saturday, May 2, 2020 - link
Thunderbolt is a high-speed, point-to-point serial link. The controllers connect to the host PC or peripheral device via PCIe and DisplayPort and use protocol adapters to transport the PCIe and DisplayPort packets over the Thunderbolt link.USB4 is only conceptually built off of Thunderbolt and differs in terms of the specific implementation. Like Thunderbolt, it is also a tunneling protocol using high-speed serial links. The signaling rates and encoding schemes are very close but not identical to those used by Thunderbolt. Also USB4 is capable of tunneling USB in addition to PCIe and DisplayPort packets.
Thunderbolt 3 controllers support USB 3.1 Gen 2, however they do so by including an integrated USB 3.1 host controller which is connected to a built-in PCIe switch. USB functions are then tunneled across Thunderbolt links as PCIe packets. USB4 can tunnel USB traffic natively without conversion to PCIe.
mode_13h - Tuesday, May 5, 2020 - link
Thanks for explaining.name99 - Monday, May 4, 2020 - link
It's taken a while, yes, about ten years, but slowly all those initial promises for Thunderbolt have come true...https://arstechnica.com/technopaedia/2008/05/thund...
We can indeed now, over a single port, run power, "traditional" USB, PCIe, ethernet, and display!
Now we just need to clean up the godawful mess that is cables and ports with some, but not all, capabilities. Honestly that's ALL the USB5 spec should be -- a set of a few simple rules for color coding ports and cables according to what they can and can't do.
shadowjk - Tuesday, May 5, 2020 - link
Yes please!Mandatory marking of ports, some CLEARLY visible marking. As resident non-practicing computer geek, I was yesterday called to the conference room to assist s user struggling with a usb-c to dp cavle
shadowjk - Tuesday, May 5, 2020 - link
... turned out all his laptop poets were unmarked and he was trying to plug usb-c in Kensington hole.Not that the cable worked in the usb-c port either...
mode_13h - Tuesday, May 5, 2020 - link
Ryan, thanks for taking the time to explain all of this, clearly.