Maybe it's just me and the large phones... Does it make sense to release two phones with 6.55" and 6.78" screens? Why not a "small" one, 5-8-6.0", and the large one? The S10 has 6.1" screen and it's really as large as a phone should be. I had an S8 which is basically the same size as the S10 but with some bezel. I cannot imagine using a 6.55 or 6.78" phone or, at the very least, I consider both very large phones. The S10 is already uncomfortable when I put it in my pocket: is there really no market for something a bit smaller?
I think the small phone market has been decimated (if not a 20x reduction) by feature creep and marketing. The phone movie-watchers and split-screen-enthusiasts and I-want-the-kitchen-sink diehards have won. Spec warriors wanted 5 cameras, Qualcomm wanted 5G, manufacturers wanted you to feel comfortable paying $900+ for a phone, etc.
We lost.
But, there is some hope for the 4.7" iPhone SE2 finally launching this month with A13. I hope that sprouts four to five Android counterparts by 2022 or 2023. I begrudgingly own an iPhone 6s Plus, whose 5.5" (16:9) screen still feels massive.
I have a friend with a 7 plus and it is massive. 4.7" feels tiny, but I totally agree with you: it is refreshing to have something not huge. For work I have to use an Iphone XR and that thing is uncomfortable: way too wide for comfort and it dwarfs the S8 and S10 (I have them next to me so it's easy to see them side by side). I was looking for a decent hones for my kids and everything seems to be 6" and up these days.
Galaxy S7 and S10e have almost the same physical dimensions, although the screen dimensions went from 5.1" to 5.8". The nice thing about the S10e is that it has the same flat glass screen as the S7 (the last one before everything went stupid curved edges).
142.4 x 69.6 x 7.9 mm - S7 142.2 x 69.9 x 7.9 mm - S10e
Still think this is pretty much the perfect size for a phone (LG G2 was the first one I had where they put a larger than 5" diagonal screen into a smallish case, just mm smaller in each dimension compared to the S7). Really hoping someone continues to make phones around this physical size going forward (hopefully the S10e will last 4 years, like the S7 before it did)
S7 user here, I've been comparing literally every phone on the market to mine and came up with the S10e too. The new Sonys I've been told are compact too just that they've dropped the "Compact" from the name, but those aren't sold in my country anymore so I haven't bothered to check...
If I heard the presentation corectly, they tried to bragg about 6,55" being a "compact" 5G phone. But it looks like phone companies are kind of repelled by the 7" barier.
So next year size choices will be like 6,8 and 6,9" ?
It is just sad, only thing that can be considered more or less compact is the 11Pro. And there are no options if you want something smaller than that.
I went with an S10e. It wasn't too large for me to use with one hand. The fingerprint sensor on the right side lets you swipe down to bring down the notification shade. The fingerprint sensor also works well and couldn't be defeated by wearing gloves until months after the phone's release when Samsung fixed that for the S10 and S10+'s in-screen sensor.
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Is this the first OnePlus device that starts at $999, the 256 GB 8 Pro?
A maximum of two years of updates for *the thousand dollar* high-end model, meanwhile a starting price of $699--the same base price as an iPhone 11.
So, is the Android update mess...still a mess? Is it surprised that Qualcomm mandated 5G on their high-end SoC instead of three years of BSP support for Android feature updates?
By current math, this $1000 phone will be out of official Android updates by late 2021.
Note 9 is definitely getting 2.1, it's busy rolling out as of 2 days ago, you just need to wait on carriers. Android 11 hasn't even been released yet...
All the news sites and leaks states that note 9 will not receive oneUI 2.1 + samsung said so when asked. ;) galaxy s10 and note 10 lines receive it right now from a week or so.
and I know android 11 is not out yet, just stated it will not rollout to note 9 and that's a fact. Samsung never release more than 2 major updates, no matter that note 9 literally released with android 8 a month after official android 9 (ooo, you can totally dev a skin on top of dev previews + you can totally do the more tricky/deeply integrated parts on the later previews that are mostly stable final). You can excuse them all you want, but I have also second hand iphone 6s on latest ios with day one major, minor, beta updates the same as my iphone 11 pro max. That 2015 phone is not only fully supported, but smoother and as fast as my unsupported exynos note 9. Ofc I will expect the same support as apple when samsung charges me the same for the phone, why wouldn't I? Back in the days the most expensive android phones costed half the price of an iphone and thus 2 years of software support was ok, especially when we consider that the technology moved fast in that sector leading to a really lots of new features never seen before or super big upgrades in speed every year. Now the technology matured, new meaningful features (not gimmicks) are not added and speed is decent + samsung charges as and in some cases like the s20 ultra - MORE than apple for their phones roflmao. Not to mention the exynos scam. Snapdragon 945 note 9 can play fortnite 60fps high and it runs smooth, my exynos 9810 don't even have a 60fps mode and stutters on 30fps medium @ !1080p!. If you think this is fair, ok, but I don't.
Software support in Android as a whole is definitely a mixed bag and not where it should be.
OnePlus seems to be trying to build a track record of supporting devices for a longer period of time than some other manufacturers, but the tradeoff is that devices aren't being updated as often -- as in you're not getting monthly security updates.
For example, the OnePlus 6 was released in May 2018 and got Android 10. It didn't arrive as soon as the OP7 series, but still came out before many other flagships. Android 10 is still supposed to be coming for the OP5 series released in 2017, but is not out yet (at least not a final release build). The OP3 that was released in 2016 got Android 9 last year. They seem to be trending ~3 Android Version Upgrades per device but time will tell if they continue to hold to that going forward.
As for Security updates -- they seem to come every... 2-4 months(?), and when a patch comes out in... say March, it would be for February's security update.
I absolutely LOVE that Apple supports their devices for as long as they do -- the trend seems to be ~5 years. I wish that more manufacturers could do that and they should certainly strive to do so.
That said, there's some reality that gets in the way for Android... which is certainly why it has been such a mess for so long. As I see it Apple has a few enormous advantages over any Android manufacturer: Vertical Integration and Huge Amounts of money, tons of experience, and a history of generally great internal product execution. With each of the last several major Android releases, Google has introduced new initiatives to try to help with the problem -- which is slowly moving the needle. BUT they tend to leave a loophole where initiatives don't become mandatory unless a new device ships with the new OS (old devices upgrading tend to be exempt). As such just because a device is running the latest OS doesn't mean that it has all the latest features implemented that ease future upgrades (either first party or by the community). Again, this is likely to account for reality. If Google mandated that the new features were mandatory for upgraded devices, they'd probably just see future devices adopt newer versions of the OS due to companies being unwilling to put in the extra engineering work.
TLDR: Android is still a mess, though improving from generation to generation. OnePlus seems to be a bit ahead of the curve for Android, but that could easily change. Apple is still significantly ahead in terms of upgrade longevity, frequency, and unity across products.
Thank you for such a detailed response. This is very valuable to know; my last Android phone from 3 years ago, ironically, was a OnePlus One with LineageOS, so I'm all kinds of behind.
What's always been striking for me, which you touch on: what actually prevents smoother & reliable updates? It seems like 1) OEM ability to invest in software and 2) Google using more carrots than sticks.
Because, while true that Apple has far more money, all of these Android OEMs also can offload the *entire* operating system to Google. Apple still has to hire thousands of software engineers to develop, maintain, and implement iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, etc. Android OEMs have a fully functional, secure, reliable, and easy to use operating system on day 1. You'd think that cost offset would've helped Android manufacturers develop the bare minimum software competency to 1) update Android and 2) add their proprietary drivers (i.e., cameras, etc.).
Back in "my" day of the OnePlus One, we always blamed the SoC manufacturer either not providing the BSP (i.e., board support package, e.g., like the SoC firmware that makes it compatible with a version of Android) or only providing BSPs for older SoCs at an exorbitant cost that OEMs refused to pay for older phones.
I'm glad to see OnePlus *is* using software upgradeability as a defining feature, even if it's not to parity with iOS yet. But, again like you conclude, how many more decades do they need? Android was unveiled in 2007, over a decade and a half ago.
Apple supports their devices for 10 years and more. Recently they released security update for iphone 4s and 5 (2011 and 2012 respectably). Their full support is 5-6 years + they don't slowdown their phones anymore (4s was the famous phone in that regard where they really f it up). I have second hand iphone 6s from 2015 with changed 1y old battery - it's smooth, fast, got all the new ios features and still fully supported with every major, minor, beta release day one the same as iphone 11 pro max.
It's about money. Apple profits a lot from services (app store, music, tv, arcade, storage and so on) while android mostly from sold devices. Apple got interest to support older iphones as users there spend money on apple's services, android is not like that. Samsung and the others want you to buy a new device for a premium price every 2 years and that's not acceptable. Not to mention the carriers excuse for on time updates, tell me what carrier/store will risk to not have galaxy devices for sale? Exactly, if samsung wanted updates directly by them it was easy to happen, but that again is costing them more money + they will not have the convenient excuse.
Back in the days the most expensive android devices costed half an iphone price and I was okish with the 2 years support, especially with back then fast moving technology in that sector leading to vastly better phones every year with added new meaningful features. Now it's not like that anymore and software support is more important than ever. Samsung got the balls to ask 1400 euro for s20 ultra, but in the end will abandon it after less than 2 years (I have exynos note 9, I know. It will not even receive oneUI 2.1 that released with s20 series and currently rolling out on s10 series). Not to mention that samsung sold a midrange SOC in Europe that is vastly inferior to the snapdragon variant, under the same name/model and same price (actually more here in EU).
IIRC Apple never slowed down their devices as long as you did swap a new and genuine battery, that made their explanation of preserving battery life of an old battery especially convincing. The throttling was not tied to device use time but to battery health.
Correct, but typical apple way they didn't announce it and acted as if they know better. Even throttled their phones hold, funny enough.. but it was obvious something is going on. The only real bummer was iphone 4s - there the lates ios run really bad (intentional or not, that's a totally different discussion). People still refer to that phone and blame apple how they slowdown their phones or the other case - have an bloated iphone (the same as we are used to see a lot of android users bloating their phones and blaming android for it). Actually I got iphone 6s from 2015 running ios 13.4.1 (latest) and it runs great with all the features...
I still love android more tho, but ios got it's strong points too and iphones in general.
Oh, forgot to add - now they give you control to that feature. It turns auto on when the battery can't provide the needed current (leading to controlled shutdown of the device, that looks sudden for the user) and limits the allowed power draw of the CPU mainly. You can turn it off in the battery menu and it will stay off till the next sudden shutdown. This is how it should be from the start.
Otherwise we can see that behaviour in android as well, it's the famous "my phone shutdown suddenly when it was at 20% battery left" and similar. When the charge is lower on degraded battery, it's a lot easier to have issues with the peak current it can provide and more likely for voltage drops too. Apple's SOC normally starts with high consumption and speed when you do heavy task and thus it's easy to trigger that issue on old batteries.
tl:dr Changing the 3-4 years old battery for 50$ fixes the issue right away and as a bonus the phone battery holds up a lot more.
And they fail to impress, still highly compromised screen with the unnecessary hole, and the failure of including a headphone jack, low end in my book.
Mirroring others, I'm disappointed but not surprised that the cost went up this generation. With competitors like Samsung and Apple already charging WAY more last generation it would seem to make business sense. Also, having the external modem probably increases BOM and engineering work to some degree. Plus, if you're trying to compete with halo tier products where a higher price is associated with higher quality (whether true or not), having a higher price could help. OnePlus may be striving to compete in that space, but I'm not sure that they're there yet.
For more armchair engineering: I'm sad to see the slightly smaller aperture on the OnePlus 8 (f/1.75 vs f/1.6), but I'm really intrigued by the larger pixel size on the 8 Pro. I'm not that sad that the telephoto on the 8 is gone as these secondary and tertiary cameras often had enough other weaknesses to not be worth the trouble -- like inferior low light performance, dynamic range, etc.
I know that a hole-punch camera is the current trend for minimizing bezels, but I don't see how -- at least this implementation -- is any better than the teardrop cutout on the 7T. The hole is far enough to the left that you really can't use that top left corner for anything that would go in the notifications bar. I don't see the hole-punch as worse, I just don't see how it is better, yet I imagine that the cost of implementation is higher.
Having lived with a device lacking a headphone jack for the last 4 months, I can say that it really is a big inconvenience. I almost exclusively use my device with headphones, and having to carry around either a dongle or bluetooth headphone amp is annoying. I have good headphones and IEMs and am in the group that refuses to use inferior and more expensive "special" bluetooth headphones -- even the fully wireless type. That said, I know that the ship has sailed on headphone jacks and they're likely to never come back. I'll mourn their loss and deal with it. Calling it a "dealbreaker" on a device when virtually no other mainstream manufacturer has leaves far too few choices on the table with far too many other compromises if I get stuck on the idea of needing a new device that has a headphone jack.
As for power efficiency at high refresh rates compared to the rest of the major brands: there is at least some reason to hope that OP might perform better. This isn't their first generation high refresh device -- they've been doing this for a generation and a half already. No guarantee that they'll do it better, but they might.
I try to make my devices last at least 1-2 years, so I'm not in the market this year, but I'm still interested to see how the 8/8 Pro stack up to the rest of this year's flagships.
3.5mm loss would be tolerable if DACs were always wired to the USB-C ports, and you could stick $2 passive adapters on all your 3.5mm devices. But noooo. Expensive, bulky, fragile, sometimes incompatible active dongles are the new trend...
Also, there advantages to integrating the DAC/Amp with the speaker. I got some Vanatoo
I wasn't sold on the tradeoff either... but I jumped to 120hz on a Razer Phone 2, and its like night and day, even for just scrolling around on the web.
It will be a long time before I upgrade from 7Pro. I just don't have the use case where the 5G speed boost is critical and functionality wise I think we have peaked with current form factor with diminishing returns of money spent.
More interesting is that with OnePlus moving upmarket, who is going to be the next flagship killer brand to take its place.
I would say "Realme" from the same company BBK Electronics (OnePlus, Oppo, Vivo, etc).
They're not as good as Xiaomi with their Redmi company and devices. However, they do use more standard components, and have a much more Stock-ish OS. So they're already crowd favorites with the developer community.
I just find it insane OEMs have the balls to charge as much as Apple or even more money for their product. And that's when they haven't even created their own software, or hardware, or ecosystem. Not to mention that as time goes on, cost of living gets higher, and inflation silently hits our wallets. And now with the 2020 Global Recession thanks to flimsy economies and the covid plague, it's just a fact that people can't afford luxuries as much. I'd love to see the OEMs get a wake up call, but they're executives are so far from the realities of everday-man that it's similar to reading Orwell. So next year and the year after, things will NOT improve :'(
I feel One Plus is playing it very safe in terms of design of the phone since this looks almost like the old 7 Pro. The design is decent, but I was hoping that they get rid of the curve screen. Instead they double down and made it even more curved. The sides of the screen serves no purpose other than for aesthetics. Other than that, I think this is a more attractive phone to own than the Samsung S20 series, in terms of cost and features. The OS is light and fast, and I feel the updates are also prompt based on my experience with OnePlus 7 Pro.
IMX586 is effectively the same size as the past standard 12MP 1/2.55", because Samsung's equivalent as well as deduction from the pixel pitch say so. To portray in graphics that it's larger than the past model is most certainly misleading. Also if it does 10bit without FRC I think they would've said so(like you said it's a big deal), so I'm assuming FRC for the moment.
Really disappointed at the 8 Pro battery life. It should have 5000mah just like the Samsung S20 Ultra. My chinese 6150mah battery lasts 15H streaming 1080p, much better than iPhone XS Max and for only 150$.
Already better than the Samsung S20 because you know you're getting a decent SoC no matter where you buy the phone. F**k Samsung and their Exynos c**p.
if I got it for free, id sell it for half price. being a constant data flow for the very hated ccp (oneplus admitted this) is not my cup of tea. and besides, their still/video capabilities was always mediocre vs the competition.
No one will buy a Oneplus 8 Pro in Canada, starting price 1400$!! This is 200$ overcharge after converting US$ to CA$. I can buy a new good chinese or not cellphone with 200$.
What is OnePlus's commitment to providing security and OS updates? In other words, how many years of guaranteed OS updates does one get? At this price point, anything less than three years is ridiculous; that goes for the other manufacturers, too. One of the reasons why I am shying away from LG phones and Huawei - got burned by both, and in Huawei's case that was before the political fracas that keeps Google services off their phones.
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mkaibear - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Any news on formal waterproofing certification?arayoflight - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
It's IP68The_Assimilator - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Did you try reading the specification table?CoryS - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
What is the 8 vs 10 bit example referring to? Is it a 10-bit screen, or does it record 10-bit video?Andrei Frumusanu - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
They're claiming it to be a 10-bit screen.CoryS - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Would be interesting to see if it is just FRC, or true 10-bit. Not that it really matters.yankeeDDL - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Maybe it's just me and the large phones... Does it make sense to release two phones with 6.55" and 6.78" screens?Why not a "small" one, 5-8-6.0", and the large one?
The S10 has 6.1" screen and it's really as large as a phone should be. I had an S8 which is basically the same size as the S10 but with some bezel. I cannot imagine using a 6.55 or 6.78" phone or, at the very least, I consider both very large phones. The S10 is already uncomfortable when I put it in my pocket: is there really no market for something a bit smaller?
ikjadoon - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
I think the small phone market has been decimated (if not a 20x reduction) by feature creep and marketing. The phone movie-watchers and split-screen-enthusiasts and I-want-the-kitchen-sink diehards have won. Spec warriors wanted 5 cameras, Qualcomm wanted 5G, manufacturers wanted you to feel comfortable paying $900+ for a phone, etc.We lost.
But, there is some hope for the 4.7" iPhone SE2 finally launching this month with A13. I hope that sprouts four to five Android counterparts by 2022 or 2023. I begrudgingly own an iPhone 6s Plus, whose 5.5" (16:9) screen still feels massive.
yankeeDDL - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
I have a friend with a 7 plus and it is massive. 4.7" feels tiny, but I totally agree with you: it is refreshing to have something not huge.For work I have to use an Iphone XR and that thing is uncomfortable: way too wide for comfort and it dwarfs the S8 and S10 (I have them next to me so it's easy to see them side by side). I was looking for a decent hones for my kids and everything seems to be 6" and up these days.
phoenix_rizzen - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Galaxy S7 and S10e have almost the same physical dimensions, although the screen dimensions went from 5.1" to 5.8". The nice thing about the S10e is that it has the same flat glass screen as the S7 (the last one before everything went stupid curved edges).142.4 x 69.6 x 7.9 mm - S7
142.2 x 69.9 x 7.9 mm - S10e
Still think this is pretty much the perfect size for a phone (LG G2 was the first one I had where they put a larger than 5" diagonal screen into a smallish case, just mm smaller in each dimension compared to the S7). Really hoping someone continues to make phones around this physical size going forward (hopefully the S10e will last 4 years, like the S7 before it did)
ads295 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
S7 user here, I've been comparing literally every phone on the market to mine and came up with the S10e too. The new Sonys I've been told are compact too just that they've dropped the "Compact" from the name, but those aren't sold in my country anymore so I haven't bothered to check...GC2:CS - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
If I heard the presentation corectly, they tried to bragg about 6,55" being a "compact" 5G phone.But it looks like phone companies are kind of repelled by the 7" barier.
So next year size choices will be like 6,8 and 6,9" ?
It is just sad, only thing that can be considered more or less compact is the 11Pro. And there are no options if you want something smaller than that.
flyingpants265 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
No, of course it makes no sense at all, but it's the current market trend.Anyway, no headphone jack = no buy. I like to listen to music while charging.
No front speakers = no buy. I like hearing stuff.
evilpaul666 - Friday, April 17, 2020 - link
I went with an S10e. It wasn't too large for me to use with one hand. The fingerprint sensor on the right side lets you swipe down to bring down the notification shade. The fingerprint sensor also works well and couldn't be defeated by wearing gloves until months after the phone's release when Samsung fixed that for the S10 and S10+'s in-screen sensor.Aaron0700 - Monday, April 20, 2020 - link
Now everyone has quarantines but no one has canceled their studies on this if you do not want to study in quarantine and you have many tasks for writing an essay, you can contact us, we will do all the work for you quickly and efficiently https://www.ozessay.com.au/write-my-essayrealbabilu - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Wait. No dualsim now.It's dual SIM but the other should be esim
Not many operator has esim, why follow apple ?
Andrei Frumusanu - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Sorry, that was an error in the table. It's dual physical nanoSIMs.XabanakFanatik - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Well, I have a 7 Pro that I got for $669, which was retail for the Tmobile 8GB/256GB version.They priced themselves right out of the range I'd be willing to pay. Seriously, $100 too high.
If the 8/128 8 Pro was $799, I'd buy it.
Peskarik - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
wait half a yearflyingpants265 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
NoKifak - Wednesday, April 22, 2020 - link
I am also with 7 Pro and do not see any reason to replace it.ikjadoon - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Is this the first OnePlus device that starts at $999, the 256 GB 8 Pro?A maximum of two years of updates for *the thousand dollar* high-end model, meanwhile a starting price of $699--the same base price as an iPhone 11.
So, is the Android update mess...still a mess? Is it surprised that Qualcomm mandated 5G on their high-end SoC instead of three years of BSP support for Android feature updates?
By current math, this $1000 phone will be out of official Android updates by late 2021.
ikjadoon - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
*surprisingcha0z_ - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
It's even worse, my note 9 is just one and a half years old and will not receive even oneUI 2.1, let alone android 11. 1000 euro phone... :)RSAUser - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Note 9 is definitely getting 2.1, it's busy rolling out as of 2 days ago, you just need to wait on carriers.Android 11 hasn't even been released yet...
cha0z_ - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
All the news sites and leaks states that note 9 will not receive oneUI 2.1 + samsung said so when asked. ;)galaxy s10 and note 10 lines receive it right now from a week or so.
cha0z_ - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
and I know android 11 is not out yet, just stated it will not rollout to note 9 and that's a fact. Samsung never release more than 2 major updates, no matter that note 9 literally released with android 8 a month after official android 9 (ooo, you can totally dev a skin on top of dev previews + you can totally do the more tricky/deeply integrated parts on the later previews that are mostly stable final). You can excuse them all you want, but I have also second hand iphone 6s on latest ios with day one major, minor, beta updates the same as my iphone 11 pro max. That 2015 phone is not only fully supported, but smoother and as fast as my unsupported exynos note 9. Ofc I will expect the same support as apple when samsung charges me the same for the phone, why wouldn't I? Back in the days the most expensive android phones costed half the price of an iphone and thus 2 years of software support was ok, especially when we consider that the technology moved fast in that sector leading to a really lots of new features never seen before or super big upgrades in speed every year. Now the technology matured, new meaningful features (not gimmicks) are not added and speed is decent + samsung charges as and in some cases like the s20 ultra - MORE than apple for their phones roflmao. Not to mention the exynos scam. Snapdragon 945 note 9 can play fortnite 60fps high and it runs smooth, my exynos 9810 don't even have a 60fps mode and stutters on 30fps medium @ !1080p!. If you think this is fair, ok, but I don't.MrCommunistGen - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Trying to NOT be an apologist here.Software support in Android as a whole is definitely a mixed bag and not where it should be.
OnePlus seems to be trying to build a track record of supporting devices for a longer period of time than some other manufacturers, but the tradeoff is that devices aren't being updated as often -- as in you're not getting monthly security updates.
For example, the OnePlus 6 was released in May 2018 and got Android 10. It didn't arrive as soon as the OP7 series, but still came out before many other flagships. Android 10 is still supposed to be coming for the OP5 series released in 2017, but is not out yet (at least not a final release build). The OP3 that was released in 2016 got Android 9 last year. They seem to be trending ~3 Android Version Upgrades per device but time will tell if they continue to hold to that going forward.
As for Security updates -- they seem to come every... 2-4 months(?), and when a patch comes out in... say March, it would be for February's security update.
I absolutely LOVE that Apple supports their devices for as long as they do -- the trend seems to be ~5 years. I wish that more manufacturers could do that and they should certainly strive to do so.
That said, there's some reality that gets in the way for Android... which is certainly why it has been such a mess for so long. As I see it Apple has a few enormous advantages over any Android manufacturer: Vertical Integration and Huge Amounts of money, tons of experience, and a history of generally great internal product execution. With each of the last several major Android releases, Google has introduced new initiatives to try to help with the problem -- which is slowly moving the needle. BUT they tend to leave a loophole where initiatives don't become mandatory unless a new device ships with the new OS (old devices upgrading tend to be exempt). As such just because a device is running the latest OS doesn't mean that it has all the latest features implemented that ease future upgrades (either first party or by the community). Again, this is likely to account for reality. If Google mandated that the new features were mandatory for upgraded devices, they'd probably just see future devices adopt newer versions of the OS due to companies being unwilling to put in the extra engineering work.
TLDR:
Android is still a mess, though improving from generation to generation. OnePlus seems to be a bit ahead of the curve for Android, but that could easily change. Apple is still significantly ahead in terms of upgrade longevity, frequency, and unity across products.
ikjadoon - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Thank you for such a detailed response. This is very valuable to know; my last Android phone from 3 years ago, ironically, was a OnePlus One with LineageOS, so I'm all kinds of behind.What's always been striking for me, which you touch on: what actually prevents smoother & reliable updates? It seems like 1) OEM ability to invest in software and 2) Google using more carrots than sticks.
Because, while true that Apple has far more money, all of these Android OEMs also can offload the *entire* operating system to Google. Apple still has to hire thousands of software engineers to develop, maintain, and implement iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, etc. Android OEMs have a fully functional, secure, reliable, and easy to use operating system on day 1. You'd think that cost offset would've helped Android manufacturers develop the bare minimum software competency to 1) update Android and 2) add their proprietary drivers (i.e., cameras, etc.).
Back in "my" day of the OnePlus One, we always blamed the SoC manufacturer either not providing the BSP (i.e., board support package, e.g., like the SoC firmware that makes it compatible with a version of Android) or only providing BSPs for older SoCs at an exorbitant cost that OEMs refused to pay for older phones.
I'm glad to see OnePlus *is* using software upgradeability as a defining feature, even if it's not to parity with iOS yet. But, again like you conclude, how many more decades do they need? Android was unveiled in 2007, over a decade and a half ago.
brucethemoose - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
I think HTC's old infographic is still relevant: https://www.droid-life.com/2013/12/26/awesome-info...Google is shoving some shortcuts in there.. but we havent seen the fruits of that effort, and Im not up to date on it either.
cha0z_ - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Apple supports their devices for 10 years and more. Recently they released security update for iphone 4s and 5 (2011 and 2012 respectably). Their full support is 5-6 years + they don't slowdown their phones anymore (4s was the famous phone in that regard where they really f it up). I have second hand iphone 6s from 2015 with changed 1y old battery - it's smooth, fast, got all the new ios features and still fully supported with every major, minor, beta release day one the same as iphone 11 pro max.It's about money. Apple profits a lot from services (app store, music, tv, arcade, storage and so on) while android mostly from sold devices. Apple got interest to support older iphones as users there spend money on apple's services, android is not like that. Samsung and the others want you to buy a new device for a premium price every 2 years and that's not acceptable. Not to mention the carriers excuse for on time updates, tell me what carrier/store will risk to not have galaxy devices for sale? Exactly, if samsung wanted updates directly by them it was easy to happen, but that again is costing them more money + they will not have the convenient excuse.
Back in the days the most expensive android devices costed half an iphone price and I was okish with the 2 years support, especially with back then fast moving technology in that sector leading to vastly better phones every year with added new meaningful features. Now it's not like that anymore and software support is more important than ever. Samsung got the balls to ask 1400 euro for s20 ultra, but in the end will abandon it after less than 2 years (I have exynos note 9, I know. It will not even receive oneUI 2.1 that released with s20 series and currently rolling out on s10 series). Not to mention that samsung sold a midrange SOC in Europe that is vastly inferior to the snapdragon variant, under the same name/model and same price (actually more here in EU).
s.yu - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
IIRC Apple never slowed down their devices as long as you did swap a new and genuine battery, that made their explanation of preserving battery life of an old battery especially convincing. The throttling was not tied to device use time but to battery health.cha0z_ - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Correct, but typical apple way they didn't announce it and acted as if they know better. Even throttled their phones hold, funny enough.. but it was obvious something is going on. The only real bummer was iphone 4s - there the lates ios run really bad (intentional or not, that's a totally different discussion). People still refer to that phone and blame apple how they slowdown their phones or the other case - have an bloated iphone (the same as we are used to see a lot of android users bloating their phones and blaming android for it). Actually I got iphone 6s from 2015 running ios 13.4.1 (latest) and it runs great with all the features...I still love android more tho, but ios got it's strong points too and iphones in general.
cha0z_ - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Oh, forgot to add - now they give you control to that feature. It turns auto on when the battery can't provide the needed current (leading to controlled shutdown of the device, that looks sudden for the user) and limits the allowed power draw of the CPU mainly. You can turn it off in the battery menu and it will stay off till the next sudden shutdown. This is how it should be from the start.Otherwise we can see that behaviour in android as well, it's the famous "my phone shutdown suddenly when it was at 20% battery left" and similar. When the charge is lower on degraded battery, it's a lot easier to have issues with the peak current it can provide and more likely for voltage drops too. Apple's SOC normally starts with high consumption and speed when you do heavy task and thus it's easy to trigger that issue on old batteries.
tl:dr Changing the 3-4 years old battery for 50$ fixes the issue right away and as a bonus the phone battery holds up a lot more.
Toss3 - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
It's 3 years now with the 8 series.Xex360 - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
And they fail to impress, still highly compromised screen with the unnecessary hole, and the failure of including a headphone jack, low end in my book.s.yu - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
The CEO claimed that they cater to heavy users then removed the jack. I lost all respect of them since.MrCommunistGen - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Mirroring others, I'm disappointed but not surprised that the cost went up this generation. With competitors like Samsung and Apple already charging WAY more last generation it would seem to make business sense. Also, having the external modem probably increases BOM and engineering work to some degree. Plus, if you're trying to compete with halo tier products where a higher price is associated with higher quality (whether true or not), having a higher price could help. OnePlus may be striving to compete in that space, but I'm not sure that they're there yet.For more armchair engineering:
I'm sad to see the slightly smaller aperture on the OnePlus 8 (f/1.75 vs f/1.6), but I'm really intrigued by the larger pixel size on the 8 Pro. I'm not that sad that the telephoto on the 8 is gone as these secondary and tertiary cameras often had enough other weaknesses to not be worth the trouble -- like inferior low light performance, dynamic range, etc.
I know that a hole-punch camera is the current trend for minimizing bezels, but I don't see how -- at least this implementation -- is any better than the teardrop cutout on the 7T. The hole is far enough to the left that you really can't use that top left corner for anything that would go in the notifications bar. I don't see the hole-punch as worse, I just don't see how it is better, yet I imagine that the cost of implementation is higher.
Having lived with a device lacking a headphone jack for the last 4 months, I can say that it really is a big inconvenience. I almost exclusively use my device with headphones, and having to carry around either a dongle or bluetooth headphone amp is annoying. I have good headphones and IEMs and am in the group that refuses to use inferior and more expensive "special" bluetooth headphones -- even the fully wireless type. That said, I know that the ship has sailed on headphone jacks and they're likely to never come back. I'll mourn their loss and deal with it. Calling it a "dealbreaker" on a device when virtually no other mainstream manufacturer has leaves far too few choices on the table with far too many other compromises if I get stuck on the idea of needing a new device that has a headphone jack.
As for power efficiency at high refresh rates compared to the rest of the major brands: there is at least some reason to hope that OP might perform better. This isn't their first generation high refresh device -- they've been doing this for a generation and a half already. No guarantee that they'll do it better, but they might.
I try to make my devices last at least 1-2 years, so I'm not in the market this year, but I'm still interested to see how the 8/8 Pro stack up to the rest of this year's flagships.
brucethemoose - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
3.5mm loss would be tolerable if DACs were always wired to the USB-C ports, and you could stick $2 passive adapters on all your 3.5mm devices. But noooo. Expensive, bulky, fragile, sometimes incompatible active dongles are the new trend...Also, there advantages to integrating the DAC/Amp with the speaker. I got some Vanatoo
brucethemoose - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
*Vanatoo monitors that have a DSP tuned for neutrality integrated into the DAC/Amp inside the speaker, and they're pretty nifty.ksec - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Surprised they still kept the same EUR and USD pricing. Which means EUR is now actually cheaper considering it is VAT included.zepi - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Any differences in import tariffs?airdrifting - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
Not a big fan of 90Hz screen, drains battery quick. Looks like I am keeping my Oneplus 7 for another year.brucethemoose - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
I wasn't sold on the tradeoff either... but I jumped to 120hz on a Razer Phone 2, and its like night and day, even for just scrolling around on the web.iphonebestgamephone - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
You can turn it off though?wr3zzz - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
It will be a long time before I upgrade from 7Pro. I just don't have the use case where the 5G speed boost is critical and functionality wise I think we have peaked with current form factor with diminishing returns of money spent.More interesting is that with OnePlus moving upmarket, who is going to be the next flagship killer brand to take its place.
Kangal - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
I would say "Realme" from the same company BBK Electronics (OnePlus, Oppo, Vivo, etc).They're not as good as Xiaomi with their Redmi company and devices. However, they do use more standard components, and have a much more Stock-ish OS. So they're already crowd favorites with the developer community.
I just find it insane OEMs have the balls to charge as much as Apple or even more money for their product. And that's when they haven't even created their own software, or hardware, or ecosystem. Not to mention that as time goes on, cost of living gets higher, and inflation silently hits our wallets. And now with the 2020 Global Recession thanks to flimsy economies and the covid plague, it's just a fact that people can't afford luxuries as much. I'd love to see the OEMs get a wake up call, but they're executives are so far from the realities of everday-man that it's similar to reading Orwell. So next year and the year after, things will NOT improve :'(
iphonebestgamephone - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
What exactly makes it much more stockish compared to miui? Something other than the design? What do you mean by more standard components?maxnix - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
"Eco-system" = gulag.watzupken - Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - link
I feel One Plus is playing it very safe in terms of design of the phone since this looks almost like the old 7 Pro. The design is decent, but I was hoping that they get rid of the curve screen. Instead they double down and made it even more curved. The sides of the screen serves no purpose other than for aesthetics. Other than that, I think this is a more attractive phone to own than the Samsung S20 series, in terms of cost and features. The OS is light and fast, and I feel the updates are also prompt based on my experience with OnePlus 7 Pro.GC2:CS - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
They spent a lot of time talking about the “bets display of 2020”.But things like video-smootheing and custom image boosting chip seems like a gimmick, trying to bring up better image from nowhere.
What about the power comsuption ? What about a laminated screen ? Is it there ?
s.yu - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
All smartphone screens should be laminated these days, and yes processing matters a whole lot for display quality.s.yu - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
IMX586 is effectively the same size as the past standard 12MP 1/2.55", because Samsung's equivalent as well as deduction from the pixel pitch say so. To portray in graphics that it's larger than the past model is most certainly misleading.Also if it does 10bit without FRC I think they would've said so(like you said it's a big deal), so I'm assuming FRC for the moment.
Zizo007 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Really disappointed at the 8 Pro battery life. It should have 5000mah just like the Samsung S20 Ultra.My chinese 6150mah battery lasts 15H streaming 1080p, much better than iPhone XS Max and for only 150$.
Zizo007 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
My phone is Umdigi Power 3 6150mah.A bigger battery isn't expensive, why don't they include bigger batteries especially for high resolutions 120Hz.
The_Assimilator - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Already better than the Samsung S20 because you know you're getting a decent SoC no matter where you buy the phone. F**k Samsung and their Exynos c**p.rocketman122 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
if I got it for free, id sell it for half price. being a constant data flow for the very hated ccp (oneplus admitted this) is not my cup of tea. and besides, their still/video capabilities was always mediocre vs the competition.dudedud - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Hey Andrei, do you think that the choice of using LPDDR4X on the 8 will limit the maximum GPU performance of the adreno 640?iphonebestgamephone - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Of course. It doesnt have its own memory.hnlog - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
AFAIK AQUOS zero2 supports 10bit color without FRC, which is already soldZizo007 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
No one will buy a Oneplus 8 Pro in Canada, starting price 1400$!!This is 200$ overcharge after converting US$ to CA$. I can buy a new good chinese or not cellphone with 200$.
Zizo007 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
I got a good 6150mah 8 cores 6.53" chinese phone for 150$.evilpaul666 - Friday, April 17, 2020 - link
Once the flagship killer hit $1000 it finally gets waterproofing and wireless charging.eastcoast_pete - Saturday, April 18, 2020 - link
What is OnePlus's commitment to providing security and OS updates? In other words, how many years of guaranteed OS updates does one get? At this price point, anything less than three years is ridiculous; that goes for the other manufacturers, too. One of the reasons why I am shying away from LG phones and Huawei - got burned by both, and in Huawei's case that was before the political fracas that keeps Google services off their phones.Zizo007 - Sunday, April 19, 2020 - link
Same as Samsung, its 2 years as usual I read it somewhere.Zizo007 - Sunday, April 19, 2020 - link
Get Apple then, they provide updates for 5 years.