With this design only having one colour of OLED, the problem of colour shift with age should disappear. (Traditional OLED designs have 3 types of emitter RED,GREEN,BLUE which age differently.)
While what toy say is correct, it's misleading. LG OLED TV panels use white sub pixels with color filters, to the best of my knowledge you can't buy an OLED TV that suffers from the problem you describe.
The OLED emitter does age a lot faster than a conventional backlight, which if properly design (and they often are not) will have a lifespan of decades
I have a 2016 LG OLED with 21,334 hours of being turned on. There is no burn in, no issues with brightness, no dead pixels. It looks as good as they day I bought it and this is a before LG really had burn in essentially solved and their manufacturing process was still pretty "new" for large displays.
Component quality, panel quality, software quality etc have all gotten significantly better since. Even the 2017 model had significant changes made to reduce the chance of burn in... Which isn't actually burn in on an OLED it's basically a pixel being unable to properly show a certain color.
I wouldn't worry about the life of these devices as long as you aren't buying some garbage brand. Personally I'd stick with LG. They are the best when it comes to OLED technology. I'll be buying a new one this year so I can game at 4k 120fps with VRR thanks to HDMI 2.1
So your TV ran 2.5 years out of the 3.5-4 years you've had it? Are you sure there's no funky accounting of hours in standby or "screensaver" mode? Pretty much all models between 2010 and 2016-2017 were famous among users for burn-in issues or varying degrees. 2018-2019 are generally considered mostly OK. I have a 2018 model that still exhibits faint signs of burn-in. Nothing very obvious but there nonetheless. And this after using it with Netflix and Youtube streaming (almost no fixed logos elements displayed). My OLED monitor (same age, LG panel) fared even worse.
And can you genuinely remember how it looked the day you bought it that now, after 4 years you can accurately say it's (even reasonably) the same? Because I swear my overclocked K6-2 was just as fast as my current 8-core... If not faster.
The problem with the LG OLED tech is the OLED's wear unevenly, causing contrast difference, thus color difference. This wasn't really a problem with traditional LCD technology but OLED's still suffer from progressively faster decay. Though LG advertises 50,000 hours life for their OLED's in HDR, that's guaranteed life, not calibrated life. At 8 hours a day, OLED TV's last 5 years until they are super inconsistant (this is commonly tested in showrooms that have TV's on for 14+ hours a day, even if not running in DEMO mode, having a service life of 2 years at best.
The OLED tech used in LG TVs use all white OLED sub pixels, they don't have the issues Samsung has with blue degrading significantly faster as they don't use blue.
Also, have an E6 that's been going for four years here averaging over eight hours a day and it still is utterly jaw dropping, has no issues with uniformity and is still the most accurate display I have access to by a comfortable margin. This display has been subjected to many 16+ hour RPG gaming sessions and none of the issues with IR at all.
I've seen many crazy stories from people about OLED issues, just none from people who actually own one(or more).
I've seen plenty of photos and videos showing uneven wear. It depends on usage, obviously. Any non-16:9 content that gets letterboxed or pillarboxed is uneven usage of pixels. Persistently playing games with static hud displays, watching too many channels that have static logos in the corner, hooking up a PC with a static taskbar too much. You have to be careful.
OLED degradation will get better, but what OLED really needs to make LCD obsolete is to become cheap enough to where replacement every few years doesn't matter. These burn-in problems don't matter if they're cheaper than LCDs. They say they can print these panels like inkjet paper, let's see it then.
There is image retention and image burn-in. I have two 10+ years Panasonic plasma and I can show you some scary pics of image "retention" but image rentention can easily be cleared with some video clean sessions. True image burn-in depends on content. The only real burn-in I have are from Civ4, back when plasma was new and OLED was in the lab. Software, especially games, developed since then have been far more aware of what causes burn-in and I have never had an issue after. This includes Civ5 and Civ6. This doesn't mean I am not worry about burn-in when I upgrade to OLED. It takes just one bad content design to leave a permanent scar...
"is to become cheap enough to where replacement every few years doesn't matter."
let us add even more to tech waste sites around the globe then already exists as it stands.
that sounds like a fantastic idea?
IMO all makers need to figure out/worry about EOL e-cycling to minimize waste to global efforts as well as end users .. massive companies such as Samsung, LG etc I am certain can help to promote "bring to us" programs, then large shipments of such products can be handled PROPERLY so they can then be "stripped" and preferably a good chunk of materials can be reused for new production / reduced waste gobbling up landfills and yards world wide
That's the thing, blue OLED has a bad reputation both in terms of efficiency and degradation, e.g. blue pixels in all the variants of Pentile have larger blue subpixels to counteract the low brightness and faster degradation, so making the whole panel blue sounds questionable.
That's absolutely nonsense. I have a 2016 LG OLED with 21,334 HOURS of screen on time. The TV actually has more than 8 hours a day average on it and it looks every bit as good today as it did the day I bought it.
You might run into issues with cheaper TV's made by smaller companies but on the higher end... There's no worry about burn in or longevity, especially with the 2017 models and later.
Personally I've witnessed some scary calibration issues on my parents 2 year old Sharp where there is clear brightness difference at the top and bottom of the screen where letterbox borders left uneven wear.
But they leave the thing on practically 24/7 like "old people" do. But when you consider they've only owned 3 TV's since the 80's and each one has lasted over 10 years, it's remarkable this $2000 TV from Sharp is failing when it was purchased in 2018.
Every subpixel in an LG OLED is "white," then a color filter on top to make RGB. They also have a non-filtered sub pixel that is white to make these WRGB sandwich which they added later to increase brightness. For the first few years LG's OLEDs used a blue/yellow sandwich. The first generation OLED's did have issues with uniform aging but not since.
Anybody who still uses a good CRT and can compare it to even a top tier LCD will see how superior CRTs are. Unfortunately I had to give up my perfectly good CRT last year. I very strongly wish I could have kept it, but being incredibly poor sometimes forces you to make painful choices.
Indeed. With that said, I wouldn't say CRT > LCD quality. The caveat is that to get any decent PQ with LCDs, you have to dole out more money than what the average consumer would spend. Basically any displays that have FALD. I was using a 1080p plasma since 2010, and only recently jumped on the 4K bandwagon, and I must say, I have been very happy with my Sony 900F. A minor complaint would be crappier viewing angles because of the VA panel. Don't get me wrong, I would love to own an OLED, but they cost more than what my budget would allow when I was shopping.
The real thing you lost is black level. Emissive displays like CRT and plasma have immensely better contrast than LCD. In dark scenes, when viewed in dark environments, OLED is beautiful.
I'm still rocking my 50" Pioneer Kuro plasma and probably will for another year or so. I'd like to see how Samsung's QD-OLED compares to the next generation of LG panels next year.
LG didn't change their panels this year, however just about every other aspect was improved (processor is Gen 3, industry standard variable refresh rate (VRR) as well as NV specific G-Sync support, Auto-Low Latency Mode (ALLM), HDR10, HLG, Dolby Vision IQ HDR and HDMI 2.1).
I think this is three years in a row with the same panel, so I would assume next year will have an updated version. Either way I feel like I have to hold off for a bit longer to see what the competition offers. On the other hand prices have plummeted in the past few years - you can pick up a just released 55" CX series for $2,000!
I also made the jump from a plasma to a Samsung LCD last year, as I have a bright living room the extra brightness is great and going from 50" to 75" is great. Still in a dark room the Kuro with a reset and recalibration is much better in terms of image quality.
It really is sad how we have all been lied too and drank the LCD koolaid. I'm always amazed how great CRT's look when I come across them, especially how natural the picture feels - even something simple like dragging as mouse cursor across the screen.
Of course a ridiculously good refresh rate and no physical 'pixels' will have that natural effect that has been missing from LCD tech over the last 3 decades.
Yeah, lets conveniently ignore the physical shadow mask/aperture grille. Unless, you were speaking about CROs, Vectrex-like displays, or something along those lines... ;-P
There is nothing disappointing with LCD to be honest. Each technology have their own pros and cons. OLED is definitely ahead when it comes to color reproduction (or may be in most cases over saturated), and brighter, as compared with LCD. Still burn in is a problem with OLED displays, and power consumption is generally higher despite being able to control the brightness per LED.
Not this again, burn in is not a problem with OLED if you are a regular home user. Its only a problem if you got a bad technology manager who buys them all for static displays.
LOL, everyone said this in 2017 / 2018, the reality is burn in is real, and problem starting to appear in two years time. While the problem isn't as severe as it was in the days of plasma, and we are constantly improving, saying burn in is not a real problem is very much misleading.
Not this again. Do you own an OLED? Both my brother and I purchased an LG B7 back in 2017. Both our televisions have visible burn-in, although his is much worse due to the fact he uses it more frequently (probably two to three times as often). The use of over-saturated reds seem to cause the most rapid burn-in-- the Netflix logo is actually visible on my brother's TV, which is odd when you consider the fact it's not like it appears for very long when streaming content.
I don't think this is acceptable for a TV in this price-range, honestly. Everyone has been parroting the line "OLEDs don't burn-in under regular use", which is BS. If a couple hours of playing games and watching shows, only a few times a week, isn't regular use than I don't know what is. It has barely been 3 years and I'm already looking to replace it. The last TV I bought was in 2008, and it still works great 12 years later.
As amazing as OLED picture quality is, it doesn't do it any good when your TV is covered in scorch marks.
@imaheadcase, I can assure you it very much is a problem. Unless for you "regular home user" means user that either keeps the screen off or displays white noise on it, OLEDs will suffer from some for of burn in. Visible even if not a blocker in any way.
My TV has it and I pretty much never displayed a TV channel logo on it (only Netflix, Youtube, streaming from NAS, regular home user stuff), and my PC monitor solidly has it.
That design may avoid the colour shift - however it is very inefficient compared to the samsung QD design. The LG design throws away two thirds of the produced photons in the colour filters which is far higher than the conversion loss in the QD layer in the Samsung design.
However blue light is the most energetic so there are some upsides using blue light. I know there has been a ton of R&D with the goal of increasing the efficiency and lifespan of blue emitters. I have to assume some decent breakthroughs have occurred for Samsung to go al in.
No problem except that they should be able to move away from the Diamond/pentile matrix. AMOLED displays are not as sharp as LCDs, quite a scam, if you ask me.
Does this mean we're finally going to get affordable OLED displays for the PC market; or is Samsung exiting it entirely (and taking most of the widescreen/curved options with it)?
Most likely that we will see more expensive quantum dot oled models instead... if They really stop produsing something, there will not be those models anymore.
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Duncan Macdonald - Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - link
With this design only having one colour of OLED, the problem of colour shift with age should disappear. (Traditional OLED designs have 3 types of emitter RED,GREEN,BLUE which age differently.)BenSkywalker - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
While what toy say is correct, it's misleading. LG OLED TV panels use white sub pixels with color filters, to the best of my knowledge you can't buy an OLED TV that suffers from the problem you describe.close - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
But does the OLED emitter stack age faster (even if uniformly) than a traditional LED backlight?saratoga4 - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
The OLED emitter does age a lot faster than a conventional backlight, which if properly design (and they often are not) will have a lifespan of decadesd0x360 - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
I have a 2016 LG OLED with 21,334 hours of being turned on. There is no burn in, no issues with brightness, no dead pixels. It looks as good as they day I bought it and this is a before LG really had burn in essentially solved and their manufacturing process was still pretty "new" for large displays.Component quality, panel quality, software quality etc have all gotten significantly better since. Even the 2017 model had significant changes made to reduce the chance of burn in... Which isn't actually burn in on an OLED it's basically a pixel being unable to properly show a certain color.
I wouldn't worry about the life of these devices as long as you aren't buying some garbage brand. Personally I'd stick with LG. They are the best when it comes to OLED technology. I'll be buying a new one this year so I can game at 4k 120fps with VRR thanks to HDMI 2.1
Reflex - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
Same here. I love this tv, and I've had no issues with a LOT of gaming and movie hours.close - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
So your TV ran 2.5 years out of the 3.5-4 years you've had it? Are you sure there's no funky accounting of hours in standby or "screensaver" mode? Pretty much all models between 2010 and 2016-2017 were famous among users for burn-in issues or varying degrees. 2018-2019 are generally considered mostly OK. I have a 2018 model that still exhibits faint signs of burn-in. Nothing very obvious but there nonetheless. And this after using it with Netflix and Youtube streaming (almost no fixed logos elements displayed). My OLED monitor (same age, LG panel) fared even worse.And can you genuinely remember how it looked the day you bought it that now, after 4 years you can accurately say it's (even reasonably) the same? Because I swear my overclocked K6-2 was just as fast as my current 8-core... If not faster.
ushandyman - Saturday, July 18, 2020 - link
Yes, OLEDs age a lot faster but they last more than enoughhttps://ushandyman.net/
Samus - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
The problem with the LG OLED tech is the OLED's wear unevenly, causing contrast difference, thus color difference. This wasn't really a problem with traditional LCD technology but OLED's still suffer from progressively faster decay. Though LG advertises 50,000 hours life for their OLED's in HDR, that's guaranteed life, not calibrated life. At 8 hours a day, OLED TV's last 5 years until they are super inconsistant (this is commonly tested in showrooms that have TV's on for 14+ hours a day, even if not running in DEMO mode, having a service life of 2 years at best.BenSkywalker - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
The OLED tech used in LG TVs use all white OLED sub pixels, they don't have the issues Samsung has with blue degrading significantly faster as they don't use blue.Also, have an E6 that's been going for four years here averaging over eight hours a day and it still is utterly jaw dropping, has no issues with uniformity and is still the most accurate display I have access to by a comfortable margin. This display has been subjected to many 16+ hour RPG gaming sessions and none of the issues with IR at all.
I've seen many crazy stories from people about OLED issues, just none from people who actually own one(or more).
bansheexyz - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
I've seen plenty of photos and videos showing uneven wear. It depends on usage, obviously. Any non-16:9 content that gets letterboxed or pillarboxed is uneven usage of pixels. Persistently playing games with static hud displays, watching too many channels that have static logos in the corner, hooking up a PC with a static taskbar too much. You have to be careful.OLED degradation will get better, but what OLED really needs to make LCD obsolete is to become cheap enough to where replacement every few years doesn't matter. These burn-in problems don't matter if they're cheaper than LCDs. They say they can print these panels like inkjet paper, let's see it then.
wr3zzz - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
There is image retention and image burn-in. I have two 10+ years Panasonic plasma and I can show you some scary pics of image "retention" but image rentention can easily be cleared with some video clean sessions. True image burn-in depends on content. The only real burn-in I have are from Civ4, back when plasma was new and OLED was in the lab. Software, especially games, developed since then have been far more aware of what causes burn-in and I have never had an issue after. This includes Civ5 and Civ6. This doesn't mean I am not worry about burn-in when I upgrade to OLED. It takes just one bad content design to leave a permanent scar...FreckledTrout - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
See my comment above. This used to be an issue but isn't ever since LG moved to all white sub pixels with filters to make WRGB.Dragonstongue - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
"is to become cheap enough to where replacement every few years doesn't matter."let us add even more to tech waste sites around the globe then already exists as it stands.
that sounds like a fantastic idea?
IMO all makers need to figure out/worry about EOL e-cycling to minimize waste to global efforts as well as end users .. massive companies such as Samsung, LG etc I am certain can help to promote "bring to us" programs, then large shipments of such products can be handled PROPERLY so they can then be "stripped" and preferably a good chunk of materials can be reused for new production / reduced waste gobbling up landfills and yards world wide
my .02c
s.yu - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
That's the thing, blue OLED has a bad reputation both in terms of efficiency and degradation, e.g. blue pixels in all the variants of Pentile have larger blue subpixels to counteract the low brightness and faster degradation, so making the whole panel blue sounds questionable.Reflex - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
That's not an issue with LG, they don't use RGBOLED, they use only white OLED with color filters. Colors wear evenly as a result.s.yu - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
I'm only referring to Samsung's decision to use blue OLED as the light source behind a red/green QD CFA. I know that OLED TVs use WOLED.d0x360 - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
That's absolutely nonsense. I have a 2016 LG OLED with 21,334 HOURS of screen on time. The TV actually has more than 8 hours a day average on it and it looks every bit as good today as it did the day I bought it.You might run into issues with cheaper TV's made by smaller companies but on the higher end... There's no worry about burn in or longevity, especially with the 2017 models and later.
Samus - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
Personally I've witnessed some scary calibration issues on my parents 2 year old Sharp where there is clear brightness difference at the top and bottom of the screen where letterbox borders left uneven wear.But they leave the thing on practically 24/7 like "old people" do. But when you consider they've only owned 3 TV's since the 80's and each one has lasted over 10 years, it's remarkable this $2000 TV from Sharp is failing when it was purchased in 2018.
BenSkywalker - Thursday, April 2, 2020 - link
Sharp only made LCD TVs in 2018, they are planning on releasing OLED later this year. You are taking about a LCD with problems, not an OLED.FreckledTrout - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
Every subpixel in an LG OLED is "white," then a color filter on top to make RGB. They also have a non-filtered sub pixel that is white to make these WRGB sandwich which they added later to increase brightness. For the first few years LG's OLEDs used a blue/yellow sandwich. The first generation OLED's did have issues with uniform aging but not since.https://www.cnet.com/news/phone-oled-vs-tv-oled-wh...
Xex360 - Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - link
Good news, finally a big player is moving away from the rather disappointing LCD technology, which couldn't even decades match CRT quality.Hulk - Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - link
Viewing is somewhat subjective. For me the best LCD technology was more enjoyable to view than the best CRT probably 5-8 years ago.EliteRetard - Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8BVTHxc4LMAnybody who still uses a good CRT and can compare it to even a top tier LCD will see how superior CRTs are. Unfortunately I had to give up my perfectly good CRT last year. I very strongly wish I could have kept it, but being incredibly poor sometimes forces you to make painful choices.
Samus - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
Sounds like someone lost an FW900.FunBunny2 - Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - link
"couldn't even decades match CRT quality."yeah, but you don't need the Brooklyn Bridge to hold up the LCD tube.
ZipSpeed - Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - link
Indeed. With that said, I wouldn't say CRT > LCD quality. The caveat is that to get any decent PQ with LCDs, you have to dole out more money than what the average consumer would spend. Basically any displays that have FALD. I was using a 1080p plasma since 2010, and only recently jumped on the 4K bandwagon, and I must say, I have been very happy with my Sony 900F. A minor complaint would be crappier viewing angles because of the VA panel. Don't get me wrong, I would love to own an OLED, but they cost more than what my budget would allow when I was shopping.willis936 - Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - link
The real thing you lost is black level. Emissive displays like CRT and plasma have immensely better contrast than LCD. In dark scenes, when viewed in dark environments, OLED is beautiful.Kakti - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
I'm still rocking my 50" Pioneer Kuro plasma and probably will for another year or so. I'd like to see how Samsung's QD-OLED compares to the next generation of LG panels next year.LG didn't change their panels this year, however just about every other aspect was improved (processor is Gen 3, industry standard variable refresh rate (VRR) as well as NV specific G-Sync support, Auto-Low Latency Mode (ALLM), HDR10, HLG, Dolby Vision IQ HDR and HDMI 2.1).
I think this is three years in a row with the same panel, so I would assume next year will have an updated version. Either way I feel like I have to hold off for a bit longer to see what the competition offers. On the other hand prices have plummeted in the past few years - you can pick up a just released 55" CX series for $2,000!
Steinegal - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
I also made the jump from a plasma to a Samsung LCD last year, as I have a bright living room the extra brightness is great and going from 50" to 75" is great. Still in a dark room the Kuro with a reset and recalibration is much better in terms of image quality.Samus - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
It really is sad how we have all been lied too and drank the LCD koolaid. I'm always amazed how great CRT's look when I come across them, especially how natural the picture feels - even something simple like dragging as mouse cursor across the screen.Of course a ridiculously good refresh rate and no physical 'pixels' will have that natural effect that has been missing from LCD tech over the last 3 decades.
InTheMidstOfTheInBeforeCrowd - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
> no physical 'pixels'Yeah, lets conveniently ignore the physical shadow mask/aperture grille. Unless, you were speaking about CROs, Vectrex-like displays, or something along those lines... ;-P
FreckledTrout - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
LOL yeah lets see a 4k mask/aperture grille :)watzupken - Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - link
There is nothing disappointing with LCD to be honest. Each technology have their own pros and cons. OLED is definitely ahead when it comes to color reproduction (or may be in most cases over saturated), and brighter, as compared with LCD. Still burn in is a problem with OLED displays, and power consumption is generally higher despite being able to control the brightness per LED.imaheadcase - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
Not this again, burn in is not a problem with OLED if you are a regular home user. Its only a problem if you got a bad technology manager who buys them all for static displays.iphonebestgamephone - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
Whats a 'regular home user' according to you?ksec - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
LOL, everyone said this in 2017 / 2018, the reality is burn in is real, and problem starting to appear in two years time. While the problem isn't as severe as it was in the days of plasma, and we are constantly improving, saying burn in is not a real problem is very much misleading.verrin - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
Not this again. Do you own an OLED? Both my brother and I purchased an LG B7 back in 2017. Both our televisions have visible burn-in, although his is much worse due to the fact he uses it more frequently (probably two to three times as often). The use of over-saturated reds seem to cause the most rapid burn-in-- the Netflix logo is actually visible on my brother's TV, which is odd when you consider the fact it's not like it appears for very long when streaming content.I don't think this is acceptable for a TV in this price-range, honestly. Everyone has been parroting the line "OLEDs don't burn-in under regular use", which is BS. If a couple hours of playing games and watching shows, only a few times a week, isn't regular use than I don't know what is. It has barely been 3 years and I'm already looking to replace it. The last TV I bought was in 2008, and it still works great 12 years later.
As amazing as OLED picture quality is, it doesn't do it any good when your TV is covered in scorch marks.
close - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
@imaheadcase, I can assure you it very much is a problem. Unless for you "regular home user" means user that either keeps the screen off or displays white noise on it, OLEDs will suffer from some for of burn in. Visible even if not a blocker in any way.My TV has it and I pretty much never displayed a TV channel logo on it (only Netflix, Youtube, streaming from NAS, regular home user stuff), and my PC monitor solidly has it.
Duncan Macdonald - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
That design may avoid the colour shift - however it is very inefficient compared to the samsung QD design. The LG design throws away two thirds of the produced photons in the colour filters which is far higher than the conversion loss in the QD layer in the Samsung design.s.yu - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
Blue OLEDs are less efficient in the first place, so I'm skepticalFreckledTrout - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
However blue light is the most energetic so there are some upsides using blue light. I know there has been a ton of R&D with the goal of increasing the efficiency and lifespan of blue emitters. I have to assume some decent breakthroughs have occurred for Samsung to go al in.zodiacfml - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
No problem except that they should be able to move away from the Diamond/pentile matrix. AMOLED displays are not as sharp as LCDs, quite a scam, if you ask me.andy o - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
Pentile is only used on phones, the Tab S4, S6, and the 15-inch laptop panels are RGB.DanNeely - Wednesday, April 1, 2020 - link
Does this mean we're finally going to get affordable OLED displays for the PC market; or is Samsung exiting it entirely (and taking most of the widescreen/curved options with it)?haukionkannel - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
Most likely that we will see more expensive quantum dot oled models instead... if They really stop produsing something, there will not be those models anymore.