Optical zoom is real zoom. So yes, 10x real zoom. Also, the sensor, even though only 50MP is bigger in dimensions than the 108MP sensor from S20 Ultra.
I never understood the race to cram more smaller pixels on a smaller sensor. There's no intrinsic advantage to this, especially going beyond a certain resolution.
Also... is this the new standard price to expect from flagships? Pretty much starting at $1000?
For Apple, they did it to meet a sharpness goal. They didn't meaningfully increase on-paper PPI since the original Retina in the iPhone 4. For the OLED iPhones, they had to compensate for the Pentile-ish layout of the display.
Anything more than that is just questionable, at best. It's not like our eyes operate with significant enough aliasing to justify higher than retina layouts.
At 13MP number of effective pixels has not changed significantly for a long time. The sub-pixels are used with different gains for single shot HDR, and for improving the deBayering. There is a slight loss of sensitivity vs a single larger pixel but the improvements in deBayering are significant.
Actually the idea of bigger pixel is better for low light is only true if it means smaller pixel means smaller sensor. For the same sized sensors, the one with more pixels outperform in lowlight using pixel binning to get better error correction with computational processing.
The "pixel binning to get better error correction with computational processing" is a bit like saying "we'll pick 1 of the 4 smaller buckets because the chances of one of them filling up are bigger than the chances of one big bucket filling up". But in the end you're still collecting from a "small bucket" (yeah, I know it's an imperfect analogy).
If tiny pixels "but we'll use computational processing to bin the pixels" was the way to go you'd have had 500MP APS-C sensors years ago. But in reality this is "making the best out of a bad situation" while still chasing the numbers.
The one advantage I see is indeed being able to increase the FPS. Are so many people consistently shooting high framerates or is it the numbers game again?
You can limit the exposure time to avoid filling up your "buckets" too early. Eventually all buckets are added up. The limit here actually is computing power, that's why pixel binning is not popular ten years ago.
You are referring to single shot HDR rather than low light imaging. In the low light scenario all pixel exposures are at maximum and noise is the limiting factor. In this case a single large pixel is better.
Not quite. They do not pick one of the 4 small buckets, but they average out leaving error buckets out. You still collect the same amount of light as the big bucket but with better noise reduction. There is a point at which the number of small buckets mean little towards error correction. so 1:4 is a good enough count. the total binned pixels are then determined by the final image size you need. so for a 12 MP(4K+) image you need a 48MP sensor binned to 12MP. Anything more is only useful for still images only deteriorating video quality. so anything you see a 100MP sensor in a phone, that is just BAD GIMICK. but a 48-24(4K) MP sensor is Good.
Not according to the Sony sensor presentation I attended. There is still a minor compromise with smaller pixels in low light even when binning is used. The advantages are in deBayering and HDR.
>is bigger in dimensions The absolute size is irrelevant. Note that they report 23mm equiv. for the module but the camera outputs 27mm equiv. by default. In practice this crop is always on and this crop is smaller than Samsung's CMOS which doesn't operate with a crop. The 50MP mode doesn't seem to provide any additional resolution, only a slightly wider FoV, at far worse DR as GSMA reports.
There are 2 small advantages to larger sensors - 1 is that you lose less light between pixels (because the pixel borders are relatively thinner) - 2 is that it's possible to increase the aperture size. Aperture sizes are almost fraudulently reported IMHO; because they're reported as ratios with respect to the focal length - but the *real* focal length isn't generally advertised, you often get the "35mm" equivalent, but the manufacturer fails to scale the aperture by the same factor, so you get nonsense.
So take e.g. that periscope lens; it's claimed as 240mm, f/4.4; i.e. an aperture of 54.5mm - about 2 inches. You see a 2-inch hole in that phone? Of course not. But to compute the effective aperture or real focal length, we'd need to know the sensor size, and that isn't advertised, but it's going to be a lot smaller than the primary sensor. I might guess at a 1/2.3" sensor? If so, that f/4.4 is going to behave optically more like f/24 would on a full-frame camera (in terms of depth-of-field and iso-related noise).
In any case; the reported f/number in cameras like this is total junk; nobody can interpret what that means, not even photographers - it's not only way too complicated, the necessary information simply isn't presented.
>the pixel borders are relatively thinner You are severely confused, there's no such relationship between total sensor size and effective light gathering area per pixel.
> it's possible to increase the aperture size Again you are severely confused, it's easier to design large aperture lenses for smaller formats, not the opposite.
>Aperture sizes are almost fraudulently reported No, the aperture numbers are true, it's just that the FLs are fake, as you subsequently pointed out, "so you get nonsense", indeed.
>I might guess at a 1/2.3" sensor You guessed high, it's no larger than 1/3.4" which was the norm for 3x non-periscopes, in fact it's more likely 1/4.5"
> that f/4.4 is going to behave optically more like f/24 would on a full-frame camera (in terms of depth-of-field and iso-related noise Yes, you're in the right direction, just that you guessed high regarding the initial sensor size :)
>nobody can interpret what that means, not even photographers Exactly, I mentioned this over at GSMA a few weeks ago, it's total BS meant as a marketing stunt, as with most Leica-branding behavior.
"you get the full sensor at ~0.8x" It's possible, but there's no quick toggle to 0.8x which makes it unlikely. Meticulous testing is needed to determine if your 0.8x is from the full main sensor or from a cropped UWA. They also have the option to merge the main's data to the center of the UWA's output from 0.66x like Apple, but it's both a technical/marketing decision as well as a technical limitation, they may decide to leave this for future models, or the ISP may not support data from two high resolution sensors doing a multi-frame stack, what they're allegedly doing now with the main.
>It also doesn't take away any other advantages I don't know what you're talking about, there was no significant advantage to the S20U judging from GSMA's review, they were more or less on par, one may look better in some scenes, the other in others.
Samsung's 3x zoom is the best non-periscope "telephoto" implementation for the z-height constraints.
All the other phones are just cropping the sensor using the same focal length as the main lens. Samsung is giving you 64mp sensor the size of the main 12mp, instead of a smaller one like the rest.
You can choose to take photos using the whole sensor, or cropping it after the fact.
If the 64MP is proper bayer, then it comes close(still only about 7MP). If it's quad bayer or anything with worse color resolution than bayer, then the crop results in much worse effective resolution. I did the math and IIRC the 64MP cropped is smaller than the 8MP 1/3.4" traditionally used for 3x.
Uptil I noticed the receipt which had said $8217 , I even have faith ...That...My brothers buddy woz like truley taking home money part time from their laptop. . There neighbor has accomplished this for less than seventeen months and currently repayed the morgage on there mini mansion and acquired themselves a Subaru Impreza . test out here.......www.Jobs222.com
I think the curvature of the screen at the vertices is not for protection, it is actually due to the fact that it is impossible to fold without deformations at the intersection of the vertices. Try it with paper and you will realize that if you do not trim the ends, it is impossible for everything to be smooth.
It might be just plastic, but my impression is that it is produced on flat sheets and then folded afterwards. might be possible to produce it folded, but that might be way more expensive.
It s really sad that this does not have Google services. I had a P30 Pro and 'upgraded' to a Note 10+ 5G. A downgrade in camera (how it got that DXOmark score i dont know), battery life, useability
Not having "Google Services" is only "sad" if you really have to rely on them for whatever service provided. I've been running on a non-Google Services phone for a couple of years now and I'll never go back to being enslaved by the big Alphabet co. I'm able to utilize all functions I need/require without Google constantly hoovering up everything I do on the phone 24/7. Plus, my 3 year old phone's battery last as much as 3 or 4 days - not having to constantly 'sync' with Google's Servers.
Hopefully, one day in the near future, Google & Apple will not be the only options when it comes to mobile operating systems and people will realize that whatever "services" these corporate behemoths currently have, can be also had fairly well without being glued to a giant corporate teet to function.
And once Huawei and other major phone producers begin providing a more credible OS and associated Apps to counter Google's current Android OS monopoly - with tens of millions of Google-free users, then perhaps there will begin to be 4, 5, or even more non-Corporately controlled OS in the future.
My computer's OS is also open sourced: ZorinOS 15 Ultimate that puts both MS's and Apple's increasingly closed and crapified OS's to shame in it's overall functionality, features and CONTROL!
Once one does finally break free, there's just no going back.
"Once one does finally break free, there's just no going back. "
I'm a *nix junkie from decades, and it's still a teeny teeny niche outside of some professional realms. sometimes breaking free leaves one alone in the desert.
My 'sync' feature is permanently disabled, but I see what you mean. We are continuously pinging Google for no reason. This would be easily and instantly solved, even on a rooted stock Android, with an iptables firewall rule that blocks all Google services. Spying is optional, you can just turn it off, and make that the new standard... Somehow, nobody has thought to do this. They cry about it constantly, but... It's simply not a priority.
Too bad you didn't tell us which phone you're using!
You can forget about Linux. Linux on the desktop is an absolute trainwreck, that's why they still only have only 2% market share including Chromebooks. 2%. 2%.
Largely apathy. While censorship and datamining is clear on chinese apps like Tiktok and Ring of Elysium, chinese hardware is everywhere and far more innocuous. I can call the CCP a big piece of state capitalist garbage and nothing seems to happen on my Oppo.
Whatever data they're mining they make sure that the consequences are more subtle. I got kicked out of Wechat once because I was "suspected of spreading false information". I only spread truth censored by the Party and in fact wasn't spreading anything in the hours that led to the incident. Actually, I even reported *false information* a couple days before that said WP and FB were praising Singapore for their "fake news law" while condemning China, alleging a sort of double-standard against China, the reality is WP condemned Singapore while FB expressed "strong concern". As expected, the article containing that *false information* amassed over 100K reads and thousands of shares, and my report was ignored. It's abundantly clear that the only standard the Party follows when censoring information flow is their own interests. Whatever threatens Xi's royal ass gets deleted, everything else, especially negative fabrications about the west, get free pass.
Oh, I assumed over 100K because it was over 70K last time I checked, it's stuck there suggesting the reads also may have been fake. Fake reads for a fake article, there should've been a clampdown on fake statistics a few months ago, who knows how it went, it's all hard to say in China since there's zero accountability. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&s... Just look at this toxic BS. And anybody with a brain should realize it's fake for its total absence of detail.
I mean... I'm against China's regime but I would definitely buy a Huawei phone if it was better, for multiple reasons. One being that I don't live in China, so their data collection doesn't seem to affect me much...
I think probably if Huawei was ever caught using the data against Americans (for example), as in distributing credit card or account info, it would destroy Huawei's reputation. Using it to gain some kind of advantage against America itself, I don't even care about that.
Anyway, there's a non-zero chance there will be a war or conflict in the future between China and the USA, so I can't say using anything Chinese is a good idea, cell phone or otherwise.
Chinese corrupt govt? Did you gobble that crap from cnn and now spitting it out? Tell me one government that isn’t corrupted? And why would that make you sad? Have you ever lived in China? Did you know that many Chinese phone manufacturers are non-profit organizations but people like you called them government-sponsored? Apple AppStore and Google playstore are full of malicious apps. If you want privacy, don’t use any smart device.
Don’t talk shit about someone else without proof and pretend that you care. I call you BS.
>many Chinese phone manufacturers are non-profit organizations Wow! Tell me about the many charities selling phones that I've never heard of. Let's start from the top: Huawei: Grants from China's policy banks, and indirect infusions through rigged bidding processes, legitimate profits aside. BBK: Seems private, but they claim 8% net profit. Xiaomi: Their margins are the lowest among the big players, but calling them non-profit is still a huge stretch. ZTE: Established by the Ministry of Aerospace Industry of the PRC(now restructured into CASC and CASIC). Meizu, Smartisan: Both partly government-owned. Come again?
Yeah bro. Unless you're A) living under a rock or B) a member of said govt then you would know that the communist Chinese murder their own people and are exceptionally corrupt.
Ask the Uyghurs.Ask Interpol President Meng Hongwei. Ask Hong Kong.
Don't be a moron and stop lying to people like China is OK.
could the google services not be sideloaded? must admit had huaweis for the last 5 years just got a S20 ultra and am missing my old mate 20 grass always looks greener
re: sideloading. When I last checked, yes you could onto those phones where it was missing. I think Huawei even gave instructions and other resources needed. Then the page went astray and the companies were asking that people don't sideload, citing some ridiculous "security" concern which only comes into play if you're an idiot (like me). I haven't checked recently but it's quite possible that they have somehow blocked it on the older models after finding people were doing it. It's also possible it'll be blocked on here. tl;dr - it WAS possible when I last checked but given the noises made by google and co, it may not be anymore.
+ XD Fusion Engine (ISP + NPU Based SW) + AI Portrait Studio + Audio Zoom + ProFoto + Ultra High-Resolution Image Capture Mode + All-New Huawei Night Mode
+ Kirin 990 5G Only (TSMC 7 nm EUV) + AI AWB Algorithm + Multi-Spectrum Colour Temperature Sensor + Color Accu 45% Up + Reproduce natural skin color in a pure background. + Detailed face, eyebrow, and hair strands in the close-up + image segmentation based face expo. optimization + Low light optimized portrait Auto HDR + Face distortion correction
+ IR Depth Cam + Better Selfie Cam Color Reproduce (even in the low light) + Selfie cam with multi-AF points + Selfie face distortion correction + Golden Snap AI Best Moment + Better virtual DoF
+ AI Remove Passersby + AI Remove Reflection + Better AIS for telephotography / televideography + 4K Velfie (Vlog Selfie) + 90 Hz Optimized System + Physical Vol. Bottom
+ 4K Live Stream + Better UD fingerprint UX + MeeTime + Slide + Multi-Device Control Panel + Hey Celia (Huawei AI Assistant)
• AI 隔空姿勢感應 • AI 隔空手勢操作 • 臉部方向智能判定 • AI 資訊防護 (智能多目光隱藏式通知) • Multi Display Solution (Samsung, BOE, LG?)
- no Google Stadia - no HWA - Noticeable image difference between different cameras - Monosodium Glutamate liked AI Cam color process. - low contrast clouds - Oil panting liked image processing is still exiting no matter rear or front cams - Lack of 3rd party Google Camera supports - NM Card rather than mSD - no Dolby Vision - no HDR 10+ - no Dolby Atmos - Lack of color choice (P40 Pro+) - no 10 Bit panels - Color Accu. is uncertainly - Auto screen color temp. adjust? - no HEIF / HEIF format image capture - no 8K Video Rec. (which is very useful for video/image crop.) - no Real HDR (HDR 10, HLG, HDR 10+, Dolby Vision) video rec. - Single speaker for media use? - Asymmetric Disp. cause the Selfie Cams' design - no Dynamic AMOLED (Almost) - no 1440P+ Disp. - no 120 Hz / 144 Hz Disp. - no VRR - no Offical GMS - no 3.5 mm audio jack - no USB 3.2 Gen 2 @ 10 Gbps - no AptX HD / AptX Adaptive / AptX LL / AptX Audio - no BT.2020 WCG Support - no Adobe RGB WCG Support - no ALL CAM support 4K @ 60 fps - no WCG image capture - no WCG video rec. - no Super Steady Video rec. - RYYB CMOS' color/layering inconsistency - Expensive price - no A77 CPUs - no G77 GPUs - no Google Play GPU Driver Upd. - no Google Play System Upd.
Kirin 990 Series SoC doesn't support LPDDR5, which has improvements on power effi. and architecture comparing to LPDDR4X @ 2133 MHz, even it's ram latancy is better than S865 5G + LPDDR5 @ 2750 MHz
Yeh, they are valuing their product the same as Samsung when it's really rather crippled for most normies who will want the full google play store, etc. What I would love to see is this pricing drop to something sensible, a bootloader unlock and some funky custom ROMs for it. I think for nerds, this isn't a half bad phone as long as you're willing to put the time and effort into getting it working right. For those who just want to pick up a phone and download the latest, fashionable "apps" (how that grates) I suspect that too much value has been lost in the software. The camera and lens tech is really funky, BUT.... I do wonder how well that prism alignment will hold up to my fascination with dropping phones. Also, it is really easy to justify the price of an $800 phone with a good camera system. You're getting so much in one portable package that it replaces sat nav, camera, mobile gaming platform, etc.... hell, it can even make calls. But when you get to $1400 you've gotta ask the question - why not get a $400 phone and a $1000 compact camera if the camera means that much to you? Or get last year's flagship for $600 and still have loads of cash left over for a decent camera. They're getting into the price range where those who really value photography enough to spend this big on a camera system are just not going to be using a mobile phone. I'm the sort of person who has a cupboard full of old flagship phones and I've almost always had a reason to upgrade properly. I still have my S8 and, until 5G becomes the norm, I can't see myself getting rid of it.
Oh I remember those days. -New rom appears -Everyone updates -237 pages of praise and love for an awesome rom -89 pages asking for fixes to stuff that's broken -12 pages of complaints -New rom appears -Repeat
Complain all you want, but many of those Broken ROMs were better/more desirable than the Stock Firmware that came on those old phones.
Thanks to proper optimisation on Google's front, ever since Android 5.1 there hasn't been a "need" for Custom Roms. People just wanted the Stock ROM and the ability to root.
Little did people know, rooting is getting more and more difficult to achieve with the new security implementations and most bootloaders are unable to be unlocked. And Custom Roms have come a long LONG way, in that there are now as stable as the Stock Firmware, whilst being more lean/clean.... and they also do monthly OTA updates unlike the OEMs.
So the more things change, the more they stay the same!!
Let me get this straight. 400 more Euros over the Pro just for 10x telephoto? No larger battery, screen, erc? Are they drunk? Is high price *the* feature?
Are consumers that f'ing stupid? Or do the insane dudes at Huawei think that a bekini makes an obese inmate sexy?
Same argument applies to Samsung's and Apple's strategies. WTF?!
the poorly educated are taking over. the Orange Shitgibbon here and Boris BadEnough (sick from a virus he said should just go out and make herd immunity) over there.
Yeah, OTOH Cuomo was against ramping up any measure against the virus up until two weeks ago, including the over 2 months since Wuhan's lockdown he had to stock up on medical supplies, 10 days ago at ~10000 cases he finally came to his senses and started responding, now he's suddenly the face of "the resistance". And he now declines to pay for the respirators costing hundreds of millions he requested asking for federal aid while regularly working against federal policies like removal of illegal aliens.
Cuomo is definitely to blame for some of the issues, but let's face it, Trump fire the entire Pandemic team in 2018. If only US had real leadership and taking charge on the problem rather than let each individual state "solve the problem themselves".
Trump is mostly to blame and Cuomo for the part of it.
One thing I absolutely dislike is the proprietary nano SD card. Why can't they make do and design something that can fit a normal micro SD card? This nano SD card performs like a U1 SD card, and yet cost at least 4x more. If they want to charge more for storage, then charge more for storage by giving people more storage options, instead of limiting to 128/256GB. At least the internal memory is significantly faster and makes paying the extra more worthwhile.
Another thing I dislike is the way they try to gimp the phones. P40 is water resistant, but not the P40 Pro. What is Pro about it when it the non Pro version have better features? If that is a decision to force you to get the Pro+ instead, I think it is a dumb decision. Pro+ is already differentiated by the superior camera, so I don't think they need to purposely gimp the Pro.
Nothing new. They gimped the "pro" models for quite a few years now leaving the audio jack for only the non-pro models, this year they finally killed the jack once and for all.
The main sensor is claimed as 50MP, 2.44µm pixels, 1/1.28" size (i.e. 10mm x 7.5mm due to the insane measuring system people still stick to).
But... that seems impossible? 50MP means a resolution of around 8661x5774. But 8661 pixels times 2.44µm is 21.13mm; more than twice the width of the reported sensor size. Even if they're measuring the square pixels along the diagonal like no sane person would, that still accounts for only a factor 1.4 - what exactly are these numbers supposed to be measuing?
As usual, OEM is lying about specifications, and being linked to the Chinese government doesn't excuse that in any way. I had trouble even finding information about the Huawei Mate 30 Pro's claimed pixel size (µm). Guessing they realise it looks like bad publicity to place such small figures for the pixel size, especially since it correlated directly with pixel quality, thusly image quality.
Instead, they want to emphasise the MegaPixel count as some game like measuring phalluses. Not to mention they are using a Quad-Bayer sensor, which is not a proper Bayer sensor anyway (which would have been REALLY impressive if it was). My guess? The marketing department mistakenly thought "QuadBayer" was superior to regular "Bayer" in a one-to-one comparison, and someone decided to simply take the real pixel size (0.61µm ?) and then multiply-it-by-four to achieve the count of 2.44µm.
Or maybe they simply multiplied-it-by-two and the actual size is 1.22µm and used a bull's hit excuse like "AI Software" or "Pixel Binning" to justify lying about a Hardware Detail. In fact, I'm convinced it is the case.
Actually they've switched to RYYB, it's no longer quad bayer, it has another set of tradeoffs most notably the poor color differentiation near yellow and green, and other issues with color tweaking. Oh yeah, and this model seems to do 16-to-1 binning, the most extreme solution so far, the 2.44 diagonal should be after the 16-1 bin.
My bad, it's after a 1-4 bin like quad bayer, but it's RYYB. The HMX/HM1 is 0.8µm, 108MP, so this is 1.22µm, 50MP, that adds up. But they do claim 1-16 binning, perhaps unlocked though firmware update.
"2.44µm" should be the diagonal (and I've always believed they measured diagonals, don't know why you suspect their sanity about this), but yes, it's deliberately misleading.
Why are they even selling it as a phone? It's 4 camera's in 1 with a cellular text message feature.. the phone part is maybe $10 of those $1000. Noone talks about the phone anymore.. Noone mentions that the touch screen is still crap, the UI is shit, scrolls the wrong way even though you accurately slide your finger vertically/horizontally.. Why was Jobs the only guy on the planet that could take a critical look at the shitty status quo and fucking do something about it! It's staring in our fucking faces, but we marvel at megapixels of a camera, 4 cameras (6 on the next one, etc.) in a PHONE!!!
I see companies concluded everyone has a lot of money and most of phones crossed 1000 USD/EUR line. Not only phones but 2020 TV are 30 - 100% more expensive then 2019 models. That's good! BTW I just saved 1500 Eur by NOT buying new TV!
Which is exactly why they raised prices btw. Because you and your ilk are not buying upgrades as often, they need to hike the price you pay when you do upgrade, or their financial numbers won't look right to investors.
For phones, I think it is somewhat justifiable, though not desirable. Reason is because, a lot of money goes into R&D, which is usually not factored in when people look at the cost of components used. I don't believe in this case that Leica will help Huawei for free either. Even though a new phone is released every year, the R&D likely took more than a year with different teams overlapping each other to produce the phones like clockwork. Which as a result of reduced sale since people don't change their phones that often now, will mean only way to keep up profit margin is to increase price.
Actually come to think about it, while this phone doesn't come with Play Store, I am starting to think if it can be a replacement for my bridge camera which I normally bring out for travelling. With a 10x optical zoom, this is closing in on bridge cameras with 1" sensor. While the sensor here is still smaller, the fact that the phone have a lot of processing power to improve the picture quality is a plus plus, especially for night shots. And it is a lot more versatile than a camera.
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shabby - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Is that a real 10x optical zoom?yeeeeman - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Optical zoom is real zoom. So yes, 10x real zoom.Also, the sensor, even though only 50MP is bigger in dimensions than the 108MP sensor from S20 Ultra.
close - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
I never understood the race to cram more smaller pixels on a smaller sensor. There's no intrinsic advantage to this, especially going beyond a certain resolution.Also... is this the new standard price to expect from flagships? Pretty much starting at $1000?
Teckk - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Apple started it, everyone else is doing the same thing now.jeremyshaw - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
For Apple, they did it to meet a sharpness goal. They didn't meaningfully increase on-paper PPI since the original Retina in the iPhone 4. For the OLED iPhones, they had to compensate for the Pentile-ish layout of the display.Anything more than that is just questionable, at best. It's not like our eyes operate with significant enough aliasing to justify higher than retina layouts.
darkswordsman17 - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
They're talking about the camera sensor, not the display. And the person saying Apple started it, is in reference to pricing.BedfordTim - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
At 13MP number of effective pixels has not changed significantly for a long time. The sub-pixels are used with different gains for single shot HDR, and for improving the deBayering. There is a slight loss of sensitivity vs a single larger pixel but the improvements in deBayering are significant.s.yu - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
You have Redmi K30 Pro.ianmills - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Having more pixels allows more FPS since you only use a fraction of the pixels in each frame. They are binned together for higher sensitivityNitinYadav251096 - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
Yeah, that's where pixel binning comes into play and this plays a big role in luring the camera lovers as well.sharath.naik - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
Actually the idea of bigger pixel is better for low light is only true if it means smaller pixel means smaller sensor. For the same sized sensors, the one with more pixels outperform in lowlight using pixel binning to get better error correction with computational processing.close - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
The "pixel binning to get better error correction with computational processing" is a bit like saying "we'll pick 1 of the 4 smaller buckets because the chances of one of them filling up are bigger than the chances of one big bucket filling up". But in the end you're still collecting from a "small bucket" (yeah, I know it's an imperfect analogy).If tiny pixels "but we'll use computational processing to bin the pixels" was the way to go you'd have had 500MP APS-C sensors years ago. But in reality this is "making the best out of a bad situation" while still chasing the numbers.
The one advantage I see is indeed being able to increase the FPS. Are so many people consistently shooting high framerates or is it the numbers game again?
wilsonkf - Monday, March 30, 2020 - link
You can limit the exposure time to avoid filling up your "buckets" too early. Eventually all buckets are added up. The limit here actually is computing power, that's why pixel binning is not popular ten years ago.BedfordTim - Monday, March 30, 2020 - link
You are referring to single shot HDR rather than low light imaging. In the low light scenario all pixel exposures are at maximum and noise is the limiting factor. In this case a single large pixel is better.sharath.naik - Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - link
Not quite. They do not pick one of the 4 small buckets, but they average out leaving error buckets out. You still collect the same amount of light as the big bucket but with better noise reduction. There is a point at which the number of small buckets mean little towards error correction. so 1:4 is a good enough count. the total binned pixels are then determined by the final image size you need.so for a 12 MP(4K+) image you need a 48MP sensor binned to 12MP. Anything more is only useful for still images only deteriorating video quality. so anything you see a 100MP sensor in a phone, that is just BAD GIMICK. but a 48-24(4K) MP sensor is Good.
damianrobertjones - Thursday, April 9, 2020 - link
so MANY buckets! :OBedfordTim - Monday, March 30, 2020 - link
Not according to the Sony sensor presentation I attended. There is still a minor compromise with smaller pixels in low light even when binning is used. The advantages are in deBayering and HDR.s.yu - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
>is bigger in dimensionsThe absolute size is irrelevant. Note that they report 23mm equiv. for the module but the camera outputs 27mm equiv. by default. In practice this crop is always on and this crop is smaller than Samsung's CMOS which doesn't operate with a crop.
The 50MP mode doesn't seem to provide any additional resolution, only a slightly wider FoV, at far worse DR as GSMA reports.
emn13 - Saturday, March 28, 2020 - link
There are 2 small advantages to larger sensors - 1 is that you lose less light between pixels (because the pixel borders are relatively thinner) - 2 is that it's possible to increase the aperture size. Aperture sizes are almost fraudulently reported IMHO; because they're reported as ratios with respect to the focal length - but the *real* focal length isn't generally advertised, you often get the "35mm" equivalent, but the manufacturer fails to scale the aperture by the same factor, so you get nonsense.So take e.g. that periscope lens; it's claimed as 240mm, f/4.4; i.e. an aperture of 54.5mm - about 2 inches. You see a 2-inch hole in that phone? Of course not. But to compute the effective aperture or real focal length, we'd need to know the sensor size, and that isn't advertised, but it's going to be a lot smaller than the primary sensor. I might guess at a 1/2.3" sensor? If so, that f/4.4 is going to behave optically more like f/24 would on a full-frame camera (in terms of depth-of-field and iso-related noise).
In any case; the reported f/number in cameras like this is total junk; nobody can interpret what that means, not even photographers - it's not only way too complicated, the necessary information simply isn't presented.
s.yu - Sunday, March 29, 2020 - link
>the pixel borders are relatively thinnerYou are severely confused, there's no such relationship between total sensor size and effective light gathering area per pixel.
> it's possible to increase the aperture size
Again you are severely confused, it's easier to design large aperture lenses for smaller formats, not the opposite.
>Aperture sizes are almost fraudulently reported
No, the aperture numbers are true, it's just that the FLs are fake, as you subsequently pointed out, "so you get nonsense", indeed.
>I might guess at a 1/2.3" sensor
You guessed high, it's no larger than 1/3.4" which was the norm for 3x non-periscopes, in fact it's more likely 1/4.5"
> that f/4.4 is going to behave optically more like f/24 would on a full-frame camera (in terms of depth-of-field and iso-related noise
Yes, you're in the right direction, just that you guessed high regarding the initial sensor size :)
>nobody can interpret what that means, not even photographers
Exactly, I mentioned this over at GSMA a few weeks ago, it's total BS meant as a marketing stunt, as with most Leica-branding behavior.
dotjaz - Saturday, March 28, 2020 - link
It is NOT always on, it's only on by default at 1x, you get the full sensor at ~0.8x. It also doesn't take away any other advantages.s.yu - Sunday, March 29, 2020 - link
"you get the full sensor at ~0.8x"It's possible, but there's no quick toggle to 0.8x which makes it unlikely. Meticulous testing is needed to determine if your 0.8x is from the full main sensor or from a cropped UWA. They also have the option to merge the main's data to the center of the UWA's output from 0.66x like Apple, but it's both a technical/marketing decision as well as a technical limitation, they may decide to leave this for future models, or the ISP may not support data from two high resolution sensors doing a multi-frame stack, what they're allegedly doing now with the main.
>It also doesn't take away any other advantages
I don't know what you're talking about, there was no significant advantage to the S20U judging from GSMA's review, they were more or less on par, one may look better in some scenes, the other in others.
Andrei Frumusanu - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Yes. They're using two prisms and two mirrors in a complex setup.jeremyshaw - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
I think some of the skepticism comes from Samsung's recent "3x" zoom, which was really a smaller zoom (like near 1.0Xx zoom) + cropping the sensor.lilmoe - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
Samsung's 3x zoom is the best non-periscope "telephoto" implementation for the z-height constraints.All the other phones are just cropping the sensor using the same focal length as the main lens. Samsung is giving you 64mp sensor the size of the main 12mp, instead of a smaller one like the rest.
You can choose to take photos using the whole sensor, or cropping it after the fact.
s.yu - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
If the 64MP is proper bayer, then it comes close(still only about 7MP). If it's quad bayer or anything with worse color resolution than bayer, then the crop results in much worse effective resolution.I did the math and IIRC the 64MP cropped is smaller than the 8MP 1/3.4" traditionally used for 3x.
foxenik - Saturday, March 28, 2020 - link
Uptil I noticed the receipt which had said $8217 , I even have faith ...That...My brothers buddy woz like truley taking home money part time from their laptop. . There neighbor has accomplished this for less than seventeen months and currently repayed the morgage on there mini mansion and acquired themselves a Subaru Impreza .test out here.......www.Jobs222.com
gagegfg - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
I think the curvature of the screen at the vertices is not for protection, it is actually due to the fact that it is impossible to fold without deformations at the intersection of the vertices. Try it with paper and you will realize that if you do not trim the ends, it is impossible for everything to be smooth.s.yu - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
I'm under the impression that OLED is just plastic, so I think of how plastic could be molded.BedfordTim - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
The front is still glass.Steinegal - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
Glass is also like plastic and can be molded in to any shape you wants.yu - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
Exactly.aarav agarwal - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
That way it becomes easier to mold it anyway you want. Hence cutting costs for the brand.Steinegal - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
It might be just plastic, but my impression is that it is produced on flat sheets and then folded afterwards. might be possible to produce it folded, but that might be way more expensive.Speedfriend - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
It s really sad that this does not have Google services. I had a P30 Pro and 'upgraded' to a Note 10+ 5G. A downgrade in camera (how it got that DXOmark score i dont know), battery life, useabilitystevielee - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Not having "Google Services" is only "sad" if you really have to rely on them for whatever service provided. I've been running on a non-Google Services phone for a couple of years now and I'll never go back to being enslaved by the big Alphabet co. I'm able to utilize all functions I need/require without Google constantly hoovering up everything I do on the phone 24/7. Plus, my 3 year old phone's battery last as much as 3 or 4 days - not having to constantly 'sync' with Google's Servers.Hopefully, one day in the near future, Google & Apple will not be the only options when it comes to mobile operating systems and people will realize that whatever "services" these corporate behemoths currently have, can be also had fairly well without being glued to a giant corporate teet to function.
And once Huawei and other major phone producers begin providing a more credible OS and associated Apps to counter Google's current Android OS monopoly - with tens of millions of Google-free users, then perhaps there will begin to be 4, 5, or even more non-Corporately controlled OS in the future.
My computer's OS is also open sourced: ZorinOS 15 Ultimate that puts both MS's and Apple's increasingly closed and crapified OS's to shame in it's overall functionality, features and CONTROL!
Once one does finally break free, there's just no going back.
FunBunny2 - Saturday, March 28, 2020 - link
"Once one does finally break free, there's just no going back. "I'm a *nix junkie from decades, and it's still a teeny teeny niche outside of some professional realms. sometimes breaking free leaves one alone in the desert.
flyingpants265 - Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - link
I can't go without Google maps, unfortunately.My 'sync' feature is permanently disabled, but I see what you mean. We are continuously pinging Google for no reason. This would be easily and instantly solved, even on a rooted stock Android, with an iptables firewall rule that blocks all Google services. Spying is optional, you can just turn it off, and make that the new standard... Somehow, nobody has thought to do this. They cry about it constantly, but... It's simply not a priority.
Too bad you didn't tell us which phone you're using!
You can forget about Linux. Linux on the desktop is an absolute trainwreck, that's why they still only have only 2% market share including Chromebooks. 2%. 2%.
2%.
fuicharles - Sunday, March 29, 2020 - link
I am not sure in other nations, but in my country Malaysia, Shop help to migrate the native HMS to Google Play stores foc on Huawei phone flawlesslyprophet001 - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
How are people still buying this Chinese stuff that's exceptionally beholden to their corrupt govt.I don't understand.
Makes me sad though.
Unashamed_unoriginal_username_x86 - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Largely apathy. While censorship and datamining is clear on chinese apps like Tiktok and Ring of Elysium, chinese hardware is everywhere and far more innocuous. I can call the CCP a big piece of state capitalist garbage and nothing seems to happen on my Oppo.s.yu - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Whatever data they're mining they make sure that the consequences are more subtle. I got kicked out of Wechat once because I was "suspected of spreading false information". I only spread truth censored by the Party and in fact wasn't spreading anything in the hours that led to the incident.Actually, I even reported *false information* a couple days before that said WP and FB were praising Singapore for their "fake news law" while condemning China, alleging a sort of double-standard against China, the reality is WP condemned Singapore while FB expressed "strong concern". As expected, the article containing that *false information* amassed over 100K reads and thousands of shares, and my report was ignored.
It's abundantly clear that the only standard the Party follows when censoring information flow is their own interests. Whatever threatens Xi's royal ass gets deleted, everything else, especially negative fabrications about the west, get free pass.
s.yu - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Oh, I assumed over 100K because it was over 70K last time I checked, it's stuck there suggesting the reads also may have been fake. Fake reads for a fake article, there should've been a clampdown on fake statistics a few months ago, who knows how it went, it's all hard to say in China since there's zero accountability.https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&s...
Just look at this toxic BS. And anybody with a brain should realize it's fake for its total absence of detail.
flyingpants265 - Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - link
I mean... I'm against China's regime but I would definitely buy a Huawei phone if it was better, for multiple reasons. One being that I don't live in China, so their data collection doesn't seem to affect me much...I think probably if Huawei was ever caught using the data against Americans (for example), as in distributing credit card or account info, it would destroy Huawei's reputation. Using it to gain some kind of advantage against America itself, I don't even care about that.
Anyway, there's a non-zero chance there will be a war or conflict in the future between China and the USA, so I can't say using anything Chinese is a good idea, cell phone or otherwise.
sonny73n - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
Chinese corrupt govt?Did you gobble that crap from cnn and now spitting it out? Tell me one government that isn’t corrupted? And why would that make you sad? Have you ever lived in China? Did you know that many Chinese phone manufacturers are non-profit organizations but people like you called them government-sponsored? Apple AppStore and Google playstore are full of malicious apps. If you want privacy, don’t use any smart device.
Don’t talk shit about someone else without proof and pretend that you care. I call you BS.
s.yu - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
>many Chinese phone manufacturers are non-profit organizationsWow! Tell me about the many charities selling phones that I've never heard of.
Let's start from the top:
Huawei: Grants from China's policy banks, and indirect infusions through rigged bidding processes, legitimate profits aside.
BBK: Seems private, but they claim 8% net profit.
Xiaomi: Their margins are the lowest among the big players, but calling them non-profit is still a huge stretch.
ZTE: Established by the Ministry of Aerospace Industry of the PRC(now restructured into CASC and CASIC).
Meizu, Smartisan: Both partly government-owned.
Come again?
prophet001 - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
Yeah bro. Unless you're A) living under a rock or B) a member of said govt then you would know that the communist Chinese murder their own people and are exceptionally corrupt.Ask the Uyghurs.Ask Interpol President Meng Hongwei. Ask Hong Kong.
Don't be a moron and stop lying to people like China is OK.
FunBunny2 - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
"Don't be a moron and stop lying to people like China is OK."whatever happened to 'buy American, hire American'? not that Trump ever did/does if he can save a penny by buying Chinese.
Irish910 - Monday, December 28, 2020 - link
Not to mention their huge covid coverup that lead to a global pandemic. The China virus was created in a wuhan lab. FUCK CHINA.sharath.naik - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
It's a shame that there is no google apps on these phones. I wish pixel phones were built with the consumer use case in mind like these are.alufan - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
could the google services not be sideloaded? must admit had huaweis for the last 5 years just got a S20 ultra and am missing my old mate 20 grass always looks greenerphilehidiot - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
re: sideloading. When I last checked, yes you could onto those phones where it was missing. I think Huawei even gave instructions and other resources needed. Then the page went astray and the companies were asking that people don't sideload, citing some ridiculous "security" concern which only comes into play if you're an idiot (like me). I haven't checked recently but it's quite possible that they have somehow blocked it on the older models after finding people were doing it. It's also possible it'll be blocked on here. tl;dr - it WAS possible when I last checked but given the noises made by google and co, it may not be anymore.Sivar - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
No.Curved edges.
Never again.
s.yu - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
These are arguably the ugliest curved (wavy, actually) edges I've ever seen. And the huge corner diameter doesn't help either.5j3rul3 - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Here's the difference compares to the Mate 30 / P30 Series：4 Cams -> 5 Cams
F1.6 -> F1.9
1/1.73" -> 1/1.28"
2.02 um -> 2.44 um
40 MP -> 50 MP
2 OIS -> 3 OIS
3X / 5X OZ -> 3X + 10X OZ
5X / 10X HZ -> 5X + 20X HZ
30X / 50X DZ -> 35X + 100X DZ
PDAF -> Octa PDAF
3 Cams 5X / 10X HZ -> 4 Cams 20X HZ
3X / 5X -> 3.5X
80 mm / 125 mm Tele -> 80 mm + 240 mm Tele
27 mm / 28 mm Main -> 23 mm Main
FF Selfie Cam -> AF Selfie Cam
15W / 27 W WSCP -> 40W WSCP
WiFi 5 Wave 2 @ 1.73 Gbps (160 MHz) -> WiFi 6 @ 2.4 Gbps (160 MHz)
Dolby Atmos -> Huawei Histen
60 Hz -> 90 Hz
Curve / Horizon Disp. -> Quad-Curve Overflow Disp.
EMUI 9.1 / EMUI 10 -> EMUI 10.1
6.47" -> 6.58"
Glass Back -> Ceramic Back
+ XD Fusion Engine (ISP + NPU Based SW)
+ AI Portrait Studio
+ Audio Zoom
+ ProFoto
+ Ultra High-Resolution Image Capture Mode
+ All-New Huawei Night Mode
+ Kirin 990 5G Only (TSMC 7 nm EUV)
+ AI AWB Algorithm
+ Multi-Spectrum Colour Temperature Sensor
+ Color Accu 45% Up
+ Reproduce natural skin color in a pure background.
+ Detailed face, eyebrow, and hair strands in the close-up
+ image segmentation based face expo. optimization
+ Low light optimized portrait Auto HDR
+ Face distortion correction
+ IR Depth Cam
+ Better Selfie Cam Color Reproduce (even in the low light)
+ Selfie cam with multi-AF points
+ Selfie face distortion correction
+ Golden Snap AI Best Moment
+ Better virtual DoF
+ AI Remove Passersby
+ AI Remove Reflection
+ Better AIS for telephotography / televideography
+ 4K Velfie (Vlog Selfie)
+ 90 Hz Optimized System
+ Physical Vol. Bottom
+ 4K Live Stream
+ Better UD fingerprint UX
+ MeeTime
+ Slide
+ Multi-Device Control Panel
+ Hey Celia (Huawei AI Assistant)
• AI 隔空姿勢感應
• AI 隔空手勢操作
• 臉部方向智能判定
• AI 資訊防護 (智能多目光隱藏式通知)
• Multi Display Solution (Samsung, BOE, LG?)
- no Google Stadia
- no HWA
- Noticeable image difference between different cameras
- Monosodium Glutamate liked AI Cam color process.
- low contrast clouds
- Oil panting liked image processing is still exiting no matter rear or front cams
- Lack of 3rd party Google Camera supports
- NM Card rather than mSD
- no Dolby Vision
- no HDR 10+
- no Dolby Atmos
- Lack of color choice (P40 Pro+)
- no 10 Bit panels
- Color Accu. is uncertainly
- Auto screen color temp. adjust?
- no HEIF / HEIF format image capture
- no 8K Video Rec. (which is very useful for video/image crop.)
- no Real HDR (HDR 10, HLG, HDR 10+, Dolby Vision) video rec.
- Single speaker for media use?
- Asymmetric Disp. cause the Selfie Cams' design
- no Dynamic AMOLED (Almost)
- no 1440P+ Disp.
- no 120 Hz / 144 Hz Disp.
- no VRR
- no Offical GMS
- no 3.5 mm audio jack
- no USB 3.2 Gen 2 @ 10 Gbps
- no AptX HD / AptX Adaptive / AptX LL / AptX Audio
- no BT.2020 WCG Support
- no Adobe RGB WCG Support
- no ALL CAM support 4K @ 60 fps
- no WCG image capture
- no WCG video rec.
- no Super Steady Video rec.
- RYYB CMOS' color/layering inconsistency
- Expensive price
- no A77 CPUs
- no G77 GPUs
- no Google Play GPU Driver Upd.
- no Google Play System Upd.
5j3rul3 - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
- no 16 GB LPDDR5 RAM- no 12 GB LPDDR5 RAM
- no 1 TB = 1024 GB ROM
- no UFS 3.1 ROM (likely)
s.yu - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
There's word out there that this may still be LPDDR4X, though I haven't seen anything solid.5j3rul3 - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
Kirin 990 Series SoC doesn't support LPDDR5, which has improvements on power effi. and architecture comparing to LPDDR4X @ 2133 MHz,even it's ram latancy is better than S865 5G + LPDDR5 @ 2750 MHz
s.yu - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
So "- no LPDDR5 8GB", there, I fixed it for you :)5j3rul3 - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
- no Real HDR GamingUnashamed_unoriginal_username_x86 - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Damn, this is a detailed concise run-down! Cheers!5j3rul3 - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
:Dliquid_c - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Regardless of the technical progressions made, the pricing is absurd, i swear to God!ksec - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
$1399..... And people are complaining about Apple's pricing.philehidiot - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Yeh, they are valuing their product the same as Samsung when it's really rather crippled for most normies who will want the full google play store, etc. What I would love to see is this pricing drop to something sensible, a bootloader unlock and some funky custom ROMs for it. I think for nerds, this isn't a half bad phone as long as you're willing to put the time and effort into getting it working right. For those who just want to pick up a phone and download the latest, fashionable "apps" (how that grates) I suspect that too much value has been lost in the software. The camera and lens tech is really funky, BUT.... I do wonder how well that prism alignment will hold up to my fascination with dropping phones. Also, it is really easy to justify the price of an $800 phone with a good camera system. You're getting so much in one portable package that it replaces sat nav, camera, mobile gaming platform, etc.... hell, it can even make calls. But when you get to $1400 you've gotta ask the question - why not get a $400 phone and a $1000 compact camera if the camera means that much to you? Or get last year's flagship for $600 and still have loads of cash left over for a decent camera. They're getting into the price range where those who really value photography enough to spend this big on a camera system are just not going to be using a mobile phone. I'm the sort of person who has a cupboard full of old flagship phones and I've almost always had a reason to upgrade properly. I still have my S8 and, until 5G becomes the norm, I can't see myself getting rid of it.damianrobertjones - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
" funky custom ROMs"Oh I remember those days.
-New rom appears
-Everyone updates
-237 pages of praise and love for an awesome rom
-89 pages asking for fixes to stuff that's broken
-12 pages of complaints
-New rom appears
-Repeat
Kangal - Sunday, March 29, 2020 - link
Complain all you want, but many of those Broken ROMs were better/more desirable than the Stock Firmware that came on those old phones.Thanks to proper optimisation on Google's front, ever since Android 5.1 there hasn't been a "need" for Custom Roms. People just wanted the Stock ROM and the ability to root.
Little did people know, rooting is getting more and more difficult to achieve with the new security implementations and most bootloaders are unable to be unlocked. And Custom Roms have come a long LONG way, in that there are now as stable as the Stock Firmware, whilst being more lean/clean.... and they also do monthly OTA updates unlike the OEMs.
So the more things change, the more they stay the same!!
s.yu - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
What's grating is most Chinese calling apps "aye-pee-pee".MetaCube - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Holy shit, those prices are insane.lilmoe - Thursday, March 26, 2020 - link
Let me get this straight. 400 more Euros over the Pro just for 10x telephoto? No larger battery, screen, erc? Are they drunk? Is high price *the* feature?Are consumers that f'ing stupid? Or do the insane dudes at Huawei think that a bekini makes an obese inmate sexy?
Same argument applies to Samsung's and Apple's strategies. WTF?!
damianrobertjones - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
"Are consumers that f'ing stupid?"Yes. They fall for the same crap every single time. Low end, medium, high end. We're being knowingly and willingly robbed each time.
FunBunny2 - Saturday, March 28, 2020 - link
"They fall for the same crap every single time. "the poorly educated are taking over. the Orange Shitgibbon here and Boris BadEnough (sick from a virus he said should just go out and make herd immunity) over there.
s.yu - Monday, March 30, 2020 - link
Yeah, OTOH Cuomo was against ramping up any measure against the virus up until two weeks ago, including the over 2 months since Wuhan's lockdown he had to stock up on medical supplies, 10 days ago at ~10000 cases he finally came to his senses and started responding, now he's suddenly the face of "the resistance". And he now declines to pay for the respirators costing hundreds of millions he requested asking for federal aid while regularly working against federal policies like removal of illegal aliens.web2dot0 - Monday, March 30, 2020 - link
Cuomo is definitely to blame for some of the issues, but let's face it, Trump fire the entire Pandemic team in 2018. If only US had real leadership and taking charge on the problem rather than let each individual state "solve the problem themselves".Trump is mostly to blame and Cuomo for the part of it.
BedfordTim - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
You also get a pottery back for extra weight.watzupken - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
One thing I absolutely dislike is the proprietary nano SD card. Why can't they make do and design something that can fit a normal micro SD card? This nano SD card performs like a U1 SD card, and yet cost at least 4x more. If they want to charge more for storage, then charge more for storage by giving people more storage options, instead of limiting to 128/256GB. At least the internal memory is significantly faster and makes paying the extra more worthwhile.BedfordTim - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
You answered your own question. This way they can sell overpriced memory cards.watzupken - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
Another thing I dislike is the way they try to gimp the phones. P40 is water resistant, but not the P40 Pro. What is Pro about it when it the non Pro version have better features? If that is a decision to force you to get the Pro+ instead, I think it is a dumb decision. Pro+ is already differentiated by the superior camera, so I don't think they need to purposely gimp the Pro.s.yu - Friday, March 27, 2020 - link
Nothing new. They gimped the "pro" models for quite a few years now leaving the audio jack for only the non-pro models, this year they finally killed the jack once and for all.Leyawiin - Saturday, March 28, 2020 - link
There is no solid reason to spend more than $300 on a phone... any phone.web2dot0 - Monday, March 30, 2020 - link
Depends, some people want to have their cellphone with a good high-quality camera. Who are you to say what's the limit someone who spend on a phone?This isn't 2010. People don't just buy cellphones for SMS or take phone calls anymore ... boomer.
emn13 - Saturday, March 28, 2020 - link
The main sensor is claimed as 50MP, 2.44µm pixels, 1/1.28" size (i.e. 10mm x 7.5mm due to the insane measuring system people still stick to).But... that seems impossible? 50MP means a resolution of around 8661x5774. But 8661 pixels times 2.44µm is 21.13mm; more than twice the width of the reported sensor size. Even if they're measuring the square pixels along the diagonal like no sane person would, that still accounts for only a factor 1.4 - what exactly are these numbers supposed to be measuing?
Kangal - Sunday, March 29, 2020 - link
You answered your own question: it is impossible.As usual, OEM is lying about specifications, and being linked to the Chinese government doesn't excuse that in any way. I had trouble even finding information about the Huawei Mate 30 Pro's claimed pixel size (µm). Guessing they realise it looks like bad publicity to place such small figures for the pixel size, especially since it correlated directly with pixel quality, thusly image quality.
Instead, they want to emphasise the MegaPixel count as some game like measuring phalluses. Not to mention they are using a Quad-Bayer sensor, which is not a proper Bayer sensor anyway (which would have been REALLY impressive if it was). My guess? The marketing department mistakenly thought "QuadBayer" was superior to regular "Bayer" in a one-to-one comparison, and someone decided to simply take the real pixel size (0.61µm ?) and then multiply-it-by-four to achieve the count of 2.44µm.
Or maybe they simply multiplied-it-by-two and the actual size is 1.22µm and used a bull's hit excuse like "AI Software" or "Pixel Binning" to justify lying about a Hardware Detail. In fact, I'm convinced it is the case.
s.yu - Sunday, March 29, 2020 - link
Actually they've switched to RYYB, it's no longer quad bayer, it has another set of tradeoffs most notably the poor color differentiation near yellow and green, and other issues with color tweaking.Oh yeah, and this model seems to do 16-to-1 binning, the most extreme solution so far, the 2.44 diagonal should be after the 16-1 bin.
s.yu - Sunday, March 29, 2020 - link
My bad, it's after a 1-4 bin like quad bayer, but it's RYYB. The HMX/HM1 is 0.8µm, 108MP, so this is 1.22µm, 50MP, that adds up.But they do claim 1-16 binning, perhaps unlocked though firmware update.
s.yu - Sunday, March 29, 2020 - link
"2.44µm" should be the diagonal (and I've always believed they measured diagonals, don't know why you suspect their sanity about this), but yes, it's deliberately misleading.brunis.dk - Sunday, March 29, 2020 - link
Why are they even selling it as a phone? It's 4 camera's in 1 with a cellular text message feature.. the phone part is maybe $10 of those $1000. Noone talks about the phone anymore.. Noone mentions that the touch screen is still crap, the UI is shit, scrolls the wrong way even though you accurately slide your finger vertically/horizontally.. Why was Jobs the only guy on the planet that could take a critical look at the shitty status quo and fucking do something about it! It's staring in our fucking faces, but we marvel at megapixels of a camera, 4 cameras (6 on the next one, etc.) in a PHONE!!!Zizo007 - Sunday, March 29, 2020 - link
...Does this have PlayStore?Or we have to hack it to get the playstore? No one's going to buy a Huawei without playstore...
s.yu - Monday, March 30, 2020 - link
It does not, over half of their total sales occur where Google Services are non-essential.Drazen - Monday, March 30, 2020 - link
I see companies concluded everyone has a lot of money and most of phones crossed 1000 USD/EUR line. Not only phones but 2020 TV are 30 - 100% more expensive then 2019 models. That's good!BTW I just saved 1500 Eur by NOT buying new TV!
surt - Monday, March 30, 2020 - link
Which is exactly why they raised prices btw. Because you and your ilk are not buying upgrades as often, they need to hike the price you pay when you do upgrade, or their financial numbers won't look right to investors.watzupken - Sunday, April 5, 2020 - link
For phones, I think it is somewhat justifiable, though not desirable. Reason is because, a lot of money goes into R&D, which is usually not factored in when people look at the cost of components used. I don't believe in this case that Leica will help Huawei for free either. Even though a new phone is released every year, the R&D likely took more than a year with different teams overlapping each other to produce the phones like clockwork. Which as a result of reduced sale since people don't change their phones that often now, will mean only way to keep up profit margin is to increase price.watzupken - Sunday, April 5, 2020 - link
Actually come to think about it, while this phone doesn't come with Play Store, I am starting to think if it can be a replacement for my bridge camera which I normally bring out for travelling. With a 10x optical zoom, this is closing in on bridge cameras with 1" sensor. While the sensor here is still smaller, the fact that the phone have a lot of processing power to improve the picture quality is a plus plus, especially for night shots. And it is a lot more versatile than a camera.Aryan_A - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
The implementation of the Optical module enhances the zooming to a huge extent it seems - good deal as a camera feature !Reyansh_M - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
the audio issue is consistent with Huawei product - hopefully they will change it in their next releases !Eliadbu - Thursday, April 23, 2020 - link
Now this is a high price to pay for Chinese government having a direct access to spy on you.