The SoC is the best of the phone. The cameras are far worse. Two tiny sensors without any benefit. Maybe the Ultra wide is useful. That setup u find normally in the 200€ region. And that bezel at the bottom.... This phone is huge.
Lets not forget the quality of their support. They still haven't fixed the focus and missing photo bugs on the Nokia 9 and their user reviews of other models are equally dire.
Not true - Snapdragon 855 has 4 fast (A76, OOo) cores, one of which can run at even higher frequency, along with 4 slower (A55, Io) cores.
Snapdragon 765 only has two faster (A76, OOo) cores along with 6 slower (A55, Io) cores.
Saying that he two are almost the same save for tiny difference in operating frequency is like saying that 6 cylinder engine is almost the same as 4 cylinder engine with same per-cylinder displacement, save for slightly lower RPM.
That car engine thing isn't a fair comparison. Many tasks aren't that multithreaded, so in singlethreaded tasks they are fully comparable (except for clock speeds).
How many phones have efficient enough cooling to ave those 4 fast cores actually operate at high freq, with 1 of them at 2.83GHz even? The reality is that while some SoCs look great on paper, in most implementations they are used just for bragging rights. The cores will throttle. Look at the benchmarks where the reviewer keeps the phone on a cold plate vs. no cooling.
So in most practical scenarios the usefulness is only in bursts and 2 fast cores with 6 slower cores will behave very similarly. There may be cases where differences are visible but in most cases the 855 is overkill. Like the 10+ core SoCs some reviewers insisted are the future. This way you may get the chance of being more efficient with the battery.
Because it's not a "mid-range SoC" (it's positioned slightly below the 865 and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between the 2 in real life scenarios) and the top of the line SoC goes in phones that *start* at $1000. That's because the 865 needs a separate 5G chip, eats a lot of power, produces a lot of heat, so it goes into big, really expensive phones. I invite you to check the prices of the Galaxy S20 or Sony's Xperia 1 II and compare with the price of their predecessor and you'll (maybe) understand why "ermahgerd! mid range!!" is not what it looks like.
The 765 is the first with an integrated 5G modem. It loses a bit on the performance side but nothing you'd notice if you care about more than the specs on the box and gains a lot with better power consumption, heat generation, and far lower board complexity.
765 phones aren't cheaper because it's a "mid-range SoC", they're cheaper because of everything else. There's a reason Google isn't really planning an 865 based phone this year. Nobody cares about that extra performance it brings (save for the warm fuzzy feeling they get when looking at the box) and it comes with so many drawbacks that it's a hard sell.
But it looks to me like this comment thread is full of people who can just compare numbers. "Starts with 7 is smaller than 8... is shit yo".
Just to cut the tension, most flagships increased in price 10-50% this year. The S20 starts at $1000 where last years top S10+ used to sit, and the S20 Ultra tops out at $1400. The Experia 1 II starts at ~$1300 where last year's phone was ~$850.
You think it's the 128K holographic display that brings that huge price hike? The platinum/diamond casing? the APS-C camera sensors? It's the fact that the 865 traded in just a bit of extra performance for the massive downsides of heat, power consumption and extra chips on the board. You can't really think any phone will be able to consistently run with the fast core at 2.8Ghz, and the other 3 fast cores clocked high all while that 5G modem sucks up the battery and turns your phone into a hand warmer, can you?
But it's "high end" and that 5% extra scores in benchmarks is all highschoolers care about these days.
I keep coming back and I have AT's 1990's style comment section to thank. If only we had some articles that show that at it's baseline the 865 is not too much of a jump (sometimes even regression) in performance from the 855. Any tricks that bump performance could equally be used on the 855 if anyone still cared about this "antiquated" SoC.
The power consumption takes a hit so even a huge battery can't give a power user a reasonable experience. And you know... it's exactly those power users that *need* a high end SoC, instead of a "lowly mid-range" but can't really take advantage because of the power consumption and heat generation. And all this for "just" $1400.
You can put any label on it but the 765 is a much better package than the 865. But unless you brand something as "high end" you can't sell it to people with more money than sense, can you? "It's shittier in every other regard, power consumption, heat, complexity, price, etc. but it's slightly faster even if in practice you can't realistically and consistently take advantage of that; so pay double for the bragging rights".
I believe it's because 5G band add more costs, not to mention the regulation, as it's support every band for better carrier aggregation and 5G support.
Competition in this price class offers: -OLED displays -Flagship SoCs -Tele cameras -Environmental protection -Under-screen fingerprint readers -More RAM and storage space
The phone should be priced around ~400USD to be competitive
It will be Around that or even cheaper. Nokia Doing that everytime their Msrp is for Europe with Tax included. But other parts in world its cheaper than Msrp.
Come on , if they want a comeback this should have been 350 EUR phone. Lets not forget now Xiaomi is 3rd largest phone maker and this is competing agains 120Hz screen 350 EUR K30.
Redmi K30 5G is 350 EUR you just have to order it from China. Realme X50 same chipset same 350 eur price. You just have to browse Aliexpress. And those companies are larger than Nokia.
You cant compare European Price to Aliexpress price. Of course this phone will be cheaper than 350 Euro in Aliexpress. Look at Xiaomi and Realme price in Europe. Redmi note 8 pro in germany Mi official store is 280 Euro for 6gb version, so should we criticize Xiaomi for overpricing their Phone too?
Most phones still come with USB 2.0, it's fine to scimp on that as 3.0 adds extra cabling that will increase weight and bulk while very few people actually need the extra speed.
Few people need the data lines at all. Let's stop putting USB ports on phones and return to barrel connectors. ... The traces needed to add USB3 support to a USB-C connector will add a TRIVIAL amount of weight and volume to a device. Like, immeasurably small. There's no excuse for a USB-C port that only carries USB2 data lines. It is, to my eye, an active attempt to mislead people into thinking they are buying better than they are.
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shabby - Friday, March 20, 2020 - link
Lol €649 for a mid range soc, good luck with that nokia.KarlKastor - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
The SoC is the best of the phone.The cameras are far worse. Two tiny sensors without any benefit. Maybe the Ultra wide is useful.
That setup u find normally in the 200€ region.
And that bezel at the bottom....
This phone is huge.
BedfordTim - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Lets not forget the quality of their support. They still haven't fixed the focus and missing photo bugs on the Nokia 9 and their user reviews of other models are equally dire.Viipottaja - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Sure. Which 5G phones are €200 again?yeeeeman - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
That "midrange" SoC is basically a Snapdragon 855 with a tad slower clocks.Arnulf - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Not true - Snapdragon 855 has 4 fast (A76, OOo) cores, one of which can run at even higher frequency, along with 4 slower (A55, Io) cores.Snapdragon 765 only has two faster (A76, OOo) cores along with 6 slower (A55, Io) cores.
Saying that he two are almost the same save for tiny difference in operating frequency is like saying that 6 cylinder engine is almost the same as 4 cylinder engine with same per-cylinder displacement, save for slightly lower RPM.
ajp_anton - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
That car engine thing isn't a fair comparison. Many tasks aren't that multithreaded, so in singlethreaded tasks they are fully comparable (except for clock speeds).close - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
How many phones have efficient enough cooling to ave those 4 fast cores actually operate at high freq, with 1 of them at 2.83GHz even? The reality is that while some SoCs look great on paper, in most implementations they are used just for bragging rights. The cores will throttle. Look at the benchmarks where the reviewer keeps the phone on a cold plate vs. no cooling.So in most practical scenarios the usefulness is only in bursts and 2 fast cores with 6 slower cores will behave very similarly. There may be cases where differences are visible but in most cases the 855 is overkill. Like the 10+ core SoCs some reviewers insisted are the future. This way you may get the chance of being more efficient with the battery.
shabby - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Would you pay $700 usd for a mid range soc? This is pixel 3a type of phone yet its almost twice the price.close - Tuesday, March 24, 2020 - link
Because it's not a "mid-range SoC" (it's positioned slightly below the 865 and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between the 2 in real life scenarios) and the top of the line SoC goes in phones that *start* at $1000. That's because the 865 needs a separate 5G chip, eats a lot of power, produces a lot of heat, so it goes into big, really expensive phones. I invite you to check the prices of the Galaxy S20 or Sony's Xperia 1 II and compare with the price of their predecessor and you'll (maybe) understand why "ermahgerd! mid range!!" is not what it looks like.The 765 is the first with an integrated 5G modem. It loses a bit on the performance side but nothing you'd notice if you care about more than the specs on the box and gains a lot with better power consumption, heat generation, and far lower board complexity.
765 phones aren't cheaper because it's a "mid-range SoC", they're cheaper because of everything else. There's a reason Google isn't really planning an 865 based phone this year. Nobody cares about that extra performance it brings (save for the warm fuzzy feeling they get when looking at the box) and it comes with so many drawbacks that it's a hard sell.
But it looks to me like this comment thread is full of people who can just compare numbers. "Starts with 7 is smaller than 8... is shit yo".
close - Tuesday, March 24, 2020 - link
Just to cut the tension, most flagships increased in price 10-50% this year. The S20 starts at $1000 where last years top S10+ used to sit, and the S20 Ultra tops out at $1400. The Experia 1 II starts at ~$1300 where last year's phone was ~$850.You think it's the 128K holographic display that brings that huge price hike? The platinum/diamond casing? the APS-C camera sensors? It's the fact that the 865 traded in just a bit of extra performance for the massive downsides of heat, power consumption and extra chips on the board. You can't really think any phone will be able to consistently run with the fast core at 2.8Ghz, and the other 3 fast cores clocked high all while that 5G modem sucks up the battery and turns your phone into a hand warmer, can you?
But it's "high end" and that 5% extra scores in benchmarks is all highschoolers care about these days.
close - Tuesday, March 24, 2020 - link
I keep coming back and I have AT's 1990's style comment section to thank. If only we had some articles that show that at it's baseline the 865 is not too much of a jump (sometimes even regression) in performance from the 855. Any tricks that bump performance could equally be used on the 855 if anyone still cared about this "antiquated" SoC.The power consumption takes a hit so even a huge battery can't give a power user a reasonable experience. And you know... it's exactly those power users that *need* a high end SoC, instead of a "lowly mid-range" but can't really take advantage because of the power consumption and heat generation. And all this for "just" $1400.
You can put any label on it but the 765 is a much better package than the 865. But unless you brand something as "high end" you can't sell it to people with more money than sense, can you? "It's shittier in every other regard, power consumption, heat, complexity, price, etc. but it's slightly faster even if in practice you can't realistically and consistently take advantage of that; so pay double for the bragging rights".
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15609/samsung-galax...
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15647/samsung-galax...
KarlKastor - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Oh dear. It's not only less cores and smaller caches. It's half the memory bandwidth and not even half the GPU.Fulljack - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
I believe it's because 5G band add more costs, not to mention the regulation, as it's support every band for better carrier aggregation and 5G support.Viipottaja - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Which 5G ones?gurukiran0027 - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
this isnt mid-range in anyway, though I really like the rear camera setup...Nokia is focusing more on design I guesswr3zzz - Friday, March 20, 2020 - link
Good industrial design is form follows function and aping Apple having rounded display corners when the screen is not curved ain't it.Infy2 - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Competition in this price class offers:-OLED displays
-Flagship SoCs
-Tele cameras
-Environmental protection
-Under-screen fingerprint readers
-More RAM and storage space
The phone should be priced around ~400USD to be competitive
hemedans - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
It will be Around that or even cheaper. Nokia Doing that everytime their Msrp is for Europe with Tax included. But other parts in world its cheaper than Msrp.Viipottaja - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Sure. Which 5G phones are $400?oRAirwolf - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Definitely not interesting for the price but I do think the Aurora Borealis motif on the back is really cool.RaduR - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Come on , if they want a comeback this should have been 350 EUR phone. Lets not forget now Xiaomi is 3rd largest phone maker and this is competing agains 120Hz screen 350 EUR K30.Good luck with that Nokia.
haukionkannel - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Buy Nokia 4 for 350€... there always is options.juhatus - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
How's the 2.4Gbps 5G on that 350EUR phone? Oh.. its not.RaduR - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
I am talking about phones with same SD chipset. Same !Viipottaja - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Which Xiamoi 5G phone is Eur 350?RaduR - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Redmi K30 5G is 350 EUR you just have to order it from China. Realme X50 same chipset same 350 eur price. You just have to browse Aliexpress. And those companies are larger than Nokia.hemedans - Sunday, March 22, 2020 - link
You cant compare European Price to Aliexpress price. Of course this phone will be cheaper than 350 Euro in Aliexpress. Look at Xiaomi and Realme price in Europe. Redmi note 8 pro in germany Mi official store is 280 Euro for 6gb version, so should we criticize Xiaomi for overpricing their Phone too?0x1874DE4C - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
USB 2.0 ? Is this a retro phone? What next, an internal microSD for storage?jeremyshaw - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Maybe even miniSD for fun!RSAUser - Sunday, March 22, 2020 - link
Most phones still come with USB 2.0, it's fine to scimp on that as 3.0 adds extra cabling that will increase weight and bulk while very few people actually need the extra speed.Still want to know the charging speed though.
Lord of the Bored - Sunday, March 22, 2020 - link
Few people need the data lines at all. Let's stop putting USB ports on phones and return to barrel connectors....
The traces needed to add USB3 support to a USB-C connector will add a TRIVIAL amount of weight and volume to a device. Like, immeasurably small.
There's no excuse for a USB-C port that only carries USB2 data lines. It is, to my eye, an active attempt to mislead people into thinking they are buying better than they are.
Cliff34 - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
You can buy last year's flagship phones for the same price. If not, cheaper.Viipottaja - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
Umm. So? Btw, do they have 5G?shabby - Sunday, March 22, 2020 - link
No one cares about 5g, its useless now. Low band 5g is a bit faster than 4g and mmWave is line of sight only with a tower when you're outside.Dragonstongue - Saturday, March 21, 2020 - link
not flagship pricing, with a flagship level price.*facepalm*
457R4LDR34DKN07 - Sunday, March 22, 2020 - link
I don't understand why they didn't opt for a ax wifi adapter. I will still but it just wish it was coming before summer.Freeb!rd - Monday, March 23, 2020 - link
8.3??? Does it use the original FAT file system or CP/M?Reyansh_M - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
it is a actually a little pricy - not expecting it to be cheap but the soc integrated is not elite !