Note how the DRAM sits directly on top of the SoC, forming a single package. The packaging is more expensive, but the end result is both a smaller volume (so a smaller phone) and that accessing the DRAM uses less energy because the wiring from SoC to DRAM is shorter and thinner.
Both, but by far thermals are more of a concern. The SoC is a source of significant heat it needs to dissapate rapidly, but passively in a mobile handset in order to maintain higher clocks under sustained workloads. NAND is thermally sensitive to the extent that higher temps mean shorter useful lifespan and the potential to lose previously saved data. Throwing another layer on a PoP that includes NAND would insulate the SoC and expose the NAND to additional heat.
@PeachNCream: Thanks for this clarification : it is very interesting to know as I was also wondering why there still doesn’t exist PoP with an SoC + RAM memory (DRAM) + storage (Nand).
I am wandering if any of the future Storage Class Memory (SCM) like (STT-)MRAM, Nantero Nanotube RAM (NRAM), ReRAM,... could help in getting a 3-in-one PoP or 3D-IC with compute + memory + storage toward 2023 / 2025 ? Or would we need to wait even longer than that ?
Sampling just started in Jan, you won't see it mass released for consumers till 2021 probably. Consumer side it doesn't really matter, Ddr5 will be a minor power consumption reduction for typical use cases, servers that are bandwidth starved it might matter.
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faiakes - Wednesday, March 11, 2020 - link
How is this midrange?Ryan Smith - Wednesday, March 11, 2020 - link
High-end phones tend to utilize SoCs with their RAM on-package in a PoP fashion. Off-package RAM is more of a midrange phone design choice.name99 - Wednesday, March 11, 2020 - link
Here's an example of what Ryan is talking about:http://ewh.ieee.org/soc/cpmt/presentations/cpmt180...
Note how the DRAM sits directly on top of the SoC, forming a single package. The packaging is more expensive, but the end result is both a smaller volume (so a smaller phone) and that accessing the DRAM uses less energy because the wiring from SoC to DRAM is shorter and thinner.
ikjadoon - Wednesday, March 11, 2020 - link
Is the three-stack PoP a connectivity problem or a thermal problem?What's holding back an SoC + DRAM + NAND on a single package?
PeachNCream - Thursday, March 12, 2020 - link
Both, but by far thermals are more of a concern. The SoC is a source of significant heat it needs to dissapate rapidly, but passively in a mobile handset in order to maintain higher clocks under sustained workloads. NAND is thermally sensitive to the extent that higher temps mean shorter useful lifespan and the potential to lose previously saved data. Throwing another layer on a PoP that includes NAND would insulate the SoC and expose the NAND to additional heat.Diogene7 - Friday, March 13, 2020 - link
@PeachNCream: Thanks for this clarification : it is very interesting to know as I was also wondering why there still doesn’t exist PoP with an SoC + RAM memory (DRAM) + storage (Nand).I am wandering if any of the future Storage Class Memory (SCM) like (STT-)MRAM, Nantero Nanotube RAM (NRAM), ReRAM,... could help in getting a 3-in-one PoP or 3D-IC with compute + memory + storage toward 2023 / 2025 ? Or would we need to wait even longer than that ?
Small Bison - Wednesday, March 11, 2020 - link
Does dual channel here mean two 32-bit channels?steve wilson - Thursday, March 12, 2020 - link
Hi Ryan,Is there any news on when DDR5 will be released for PC?
Ryan Smith - Thursday, March 12, 2020 - link
That's more of an Ian question. But normally we'll see something like that show up in servers first.RSAUser - Thursday, March 12, 2020 - link
Sampling just started in Jan, you won't see it mass released for consumers till 2021 probably.Consumer side it doesn't really matter, Ddr5 will be a minor power consumption reduction for typical use cases, servers that are bandwidth starved it might matter.
spaceship9876 - Thursday, March 12, 2020 - link
I wonder whether they will make a version with 4GB ram and 64GB nand, i'm sure that would be very popular.