Excellent article, Andrei. The team over at XDA Developers managed to identify the adb commands which would allow you to set the display to either of the other refresh rates, so I'm sure Samsung could in some way introduce variable refresh rate switching.
Yea I saw that. In an ideal case Samsung would actually implement their own pseudo-VRR mode that switches between the display refresh rates based on content.
Machine learning is in great need now. During the coronavirus period, it would be nice to identify some dependencies and foresee what will happen next in the world. By the way, if you also need to write an essay on machine learning, then i advise you to turn to https://buypapercheap.net/affordable-term-papers-f... which offers writing term papers at affordable prices.
Andrei, amazing review TBH. You have outdone yourself once again and, fie vorba intre noi, cred ca esti succesorul cel mai potrivit pentru Anand. Esti cel mai profi si cand vine vorba de detalii tehnice, dar si de idei interesante de comparatie intre diferite device-uri. Am scris in romana sa nu se supere colegii tai. Please try to add to the energy efficiency table, Ice Lake scores and maybe some energy usages like you have for mobile devices? That would be amazing!
Born German with Latin as my first foreign language, and with fluent Spanish and French picked up later, written down Romanian isn't nearly as hard to understand as the spoken language... bine, bine!
Probably one of the reasons Samsung still continues to sell the S10 series. They're really excellent value right now, and you're not missing out on too much.
You are literally getting just one more year of software support going for s10 series... samsung software support policy is abysmal with less than two years of real support and from there just security. I got both iphone 11 pro max and exynos note 9, if I put aside the cr*ppy 9810 - it will not receive even the oneUI 2.1 as an update, while samsung will soon release it for s10 line. Enough said, note 9 is year and a half old.
How can you recommend someone 1000 euro or 1400 euro phone if it will be supported for 1.5 years and from there 1.5 more security updates next to apple with 5 years FULL support with major, minor, day one, betas + security update for old iphones like 4s and 5 (2011 and 2012 respectably)?
You do realize the phone doesn't stop working when it doesn't get an OS update right? TBH, neither Android or IOS has added a whole lot in the past few years, its just a yearly cadence of very minor updates and not getting them means almost zero in actual use.
I think there have been a lot of added features to IOS in the last 3 years that I use a great deal. Not saying that Android didnt already have some of these features, but for IOS users we got with IOS 11; a file manager (finally), Messages sync with iCloud, screen recording, useful improvements to Siri and ApplePay. IOS12; lots of performance improvements (lots), Screentime, Shortcuts (scripting), CarPlay, Animoji Memoji, Tracking prevention, IOS13; Single Sign on, external storage, Dark Mode, better support for keyboards, trackpads/mice, etc.
I think it's because Android mostly has offered those features(file manager,screen recording, external storage,support for mice etc.) since way back compared to iOS' slow but steady trickle of features that's why iOS users feel every OS update is huge and significant. I'm using a Note 4(my backup device) right now to comment which doesn't feel too crippled compared to my Android 9 P20 pro.
Let's not find an excuse - software support is software support. Security is security - some of us keep all their personal info on their device (most of us) + bank accounts and whatnot, risking compromise on your phone is not that innocent compared to what was like back in the days. IOS adds rapidly more features for sure compared to android that recently starts to look more and more like IOS (and I personally totally don't like that), but still added some good stuff under the hood and some new features.
It's not serious to sell 1400 euro phone that is supported for one year and a half. I own exynos note 9 - it's 1.5 years old and already samsung dropped the support, s10 line received oneUI 2.1, note 9 will not. How is that for my 1000 euro phone + double served with that cr*ppy exynos 9810 in it. Now it's in my GF and I am rolling iphone 11 pro max. I prefer android and love oneUI, but I am tired to be a second hand customer.
Don't know what you're talking about. My Note8 just got another update days ago, one that I preferred not to have because each update comes with a risk of bricking the device while potential changes to the UI are not always welcome either. I also got it ~30% off retail a few months after release, such has always been the state of Samsung, at least for S and Note. I'm no longer buying Samsung but the main reason is lack of the 3.5mm port, if I have to name another then it's between the questionable choice of telephoto in the smaller variants or the oversized device with a mediocre battery(I regard 5000mah to be mediocre for the size). I still do like the UI but I'm willing to look around.
"It's not serious to sell 1400 euro phone that is supported for one year and a half. I own exynos note 9 - it's 1.5 years old and already samsung dropped the support, s10 line received oneUI 2.1, note 9 will not. How is that for my 1000 euro phone"
Very easy, with those "very old software features" Samsung can do what MAC can't, and don't get me start it on the utter crap IOS.
Also don't spin it, Samsung offer 4 (four) years of security updates, so do your research before you type something.
fanboy. Security update hahahahah iphone 4s and 5 still receives security updates - 9 years old phone for 4s. What you will say now? iphone receive FULL support with MAJOR ios versions, updates, minor updates, BETA versions, DAY ONE as their newest and most expensive phone - for 5-6 years and you are talking about 4 years of security updates roflmao. Samsung released note 9 with android 8 when android 9 was already released from more than a months. Oooo, it's enough time, because you can dev your skin and features on top of the dev previews, especially the later ones that are closer to final (for the more tricky/deeply integrated code) - so no excuse for what they did. Basically they gave me one major update - android 10 as android 9 should had been on the note 9 from the start. Even if we count 2, how is that next to 5-6 versions of ios?
And before you talk some more fanboy bs that never used recent years iphones - ios brings a lot more in every new versions (adding features that was missing for no reason, like external USB flash support, file browser for the files on the phone, etc) while android 10 brings you what? More lockdown ios style, iphones gestures and pixel device that is a cheap iphone wannabe.
Because of people like you samsung don't want to change their software support policy. Why should they? It costs money or now you will start with the argument how the phone hardware is not supporting oneUI 2.1 (for the note 9 that is 1.5 years old, but will not receive it most likely ;) ). Or maybe android 11 will be too much for the phone, right? :D
Also I agree - my note 9 can do more than my iphone 11 pro max, but everything that the phones do both (and that's 99.9% of what you will end up using constantly) - the iphone 11 pro max makes the exynos note 9 look like a total utter joke - faster, smoother with NOT A SINGLE frame drop no matter what you do, gaming is insanely good with surprise - NOT A SINGLE frame drop, battery life is x3 times better, apps have MORE features and runs super smooth and great, speakers destroys the note 9 one, camera too is times better, materials are a lot better too, faceid is super good and fast - feels like I don't have any security on - never failed or gave me any issue. Fun fact, note 9 came with fortnite and recommended as gaming phone for that game. My exynos variant can't run smoothly the game even with 30fps cap medium settings and !1080p! while iphone XS max runs it 60fps high 2688x1242 without a single frame drop. Same goes for the 11 pro max, obviously.
As for ios - it improves massively and adds more and more missing features/drops restrictions with every version. ios 14 is already known to drop more. I prefer android, because I can do more + I love oneUI, but that doesn't change the fact that in my country I will receive exynos and 1.5 years of decent support. And in the end of the day - I spend my time in apps, not in the settings menu and apps on ios are better, with more features, smoother, a lot of them exclusive to the platform. Can you play dead cells on your android device? No? Yeah, the port is expected around the end of the year, I have it from June 2019. Full blown civilization 6 on your android device? Yeah, will never come, I have it and it's 1:1 port that runs great. Can go on and on and on. If you spend your time tweaking settings, options, UI - good for you, I spend my time in games and apps.
They really don't. 2 years max on updates and the security patches only come out when it is critical after that.
My Galaxy Fold only just got One UI 2.1 and Android 10. The most expensive phone they do and they are already slowing down updates for it. Samsung suck at software.
That's for the maxed out S20 Ultra, what S10 are you comparing it to? There are the following additions to the S20 lineup: camera tech, 5G, battery capacities, mobile chipsets, display tech, etc. Now not everyone may find those attractive enough to jump on board that doesn't mean they have to buy the damn thing.
The Galaxy S20 and S20+ 4G variants have the same launch prices as S10 and S10+ - with the only caveat being that they're only available in certain markets, with the US missing from that list.
So in that sense, the only thing you're paying extra for is the 5G.
I still don't get why anyone would pay for "5G". mmWave is barely extant. Verizon, for one, adverts pump up use in football stadiums (if we ever have such), 'so it must be great for you' kind of thing. while sub6 is barely perceptibly different LTE. Why? If there's ever a true build out of mmWave, it'll be in suburban subdivisions with plenty of street lights, no longer the norm. In cities, you'll need some sort of '5G' wifi inside any kind of building with a (massive?) dish on the roof. Ah cannaw change da laws of physic, capn.
Qualcomm's going with the flow of the industry, there's no way but forward ;) But anyway, the Luneburg lenses China Mobile showcased, if they're compatible with mmWave, and if they're even willing to sell them(the issue is cost and somehow they're able to make them much cheaper, cheap enough for civilian use), then they could drastically increase coverage at essentially the same power levels.
Yup, that's a lot to pay for something that you carry around on a daily basis and expose to the outdoor world including weather, impact, and theft. I know the TELCOs are hiding the cost inside monthly payments over the life of a contract so most buyers will not take note of the price over say an $800 dollar handset, but wow people are forking over a lot of their earnings just to carry around a status symbol that other people will stop caring about after a couple of months.
"wow people are forking over a lot of their earnings just to carry around a status symbol"
why does a Ferrari cost 3 times a Ford (not the GT, of course)? because the capital investment to make either is nearly the same, but spread out over a fraction of units. same with "5G" phones. the capital to make all those specialized bits and pieces, whether Samsung made or bought it, is about the same, but separate, from the capital to make a moto G6, etc. but far fewer units. unlike the march to LTE, "5G" is more likely to be a toddler's waddle. with sky high prices as an added benefit.
there was a headline recently that the Swiss watch industry is on a ventilator, few have any need for such bling. can the bling smartphone be far behind? at least your scion can use that Patek Philippe in 50 years.
Not just economy of scale, 5G has higher material cost even if cost per unit is the same, for example you easily need over a dozen antennas in a handset. Massive parallelism is fundamental for 5G.
Swiss watch industry consisted of a large number of small firms that bought in parts from China but marketed at premium price. These will not survive. Rolex/AP/Patek have queues years long, now they also stopped production, there is no excess supply, demand is still there just a bit dormant, especially Asian demand. They will be fine. Omega / Longines will survive due to lower price and high numbers produced. IMHO
"Swiss watch industry consisted of a large number of small firms that bought in parts from China but marketed at premium price."
actually, most are required, by law, to buy Swiss. at least horological parts. of those brands, most are either owned by Swatch or buy movements (more or less complete) from Swatch. a few years ago the Swiss government, after Swatch had bought up ETA and other movement suppliers, allowed Swatch to cease supplying movements to the trade. rather a big stink ensued. last I checked, Swatch had in fact cease supplying.
It baffles me that you used a capital S for, 'Swatch', yet didn't place any at the start of your sentences?! What the hell is happening to the English language?
$1400 is absurd ofc, In Vietnam since we made them so price is more reasonable - but we do not have 5G yet and we have that inferior version Exynos :( S20 is 680$ S20+ is 780$ S20 Ultra is 930$
Haha, I just looked on Taobao and the price of the SK version is comparable while it's SD this generation. I sometimes wonder if the locals in SK could even get that Taobao price off contract.
Not only is the price tag obsurd, also it's the performance disparities between Snapdragon and Exynos, and weighting that with the price tag is Idiocracy². Why would I buy the Exynos crap for the same price than the Snapdragon parts? I've been with Samsung for nearly 10 years for phones and tablets along, but that's it. That I'm European doesn't mean I am an idiot willing to throw my money out of the window.
$1400? Geez, I thought $1100 for the Ultra here in Singapore was already stupid overpriced especially when all S20 variants here are only available in 128GB, and the Note 10+ 256GB is just $590.
$1400? Geez, I thought $1100 for the Ultra here in Singapore was already stupid overpriced especially when all S20 variants here are only available in 128GB and the Note 10+ 256GB is just $590.
When I upgraded from s3 to s7, I was so impress by the new phone. Long battery life, great camera and fast cpu.
Now I upgraded to s20+ and instead of feeling the aww feeling, I'm more like meh.
It comes w great features but they are all come w a cost. Great camera but if you take 64meg photos, it takes a few seconds to process. Great screen but if you switch on 120 hertz, your battery drains fast.
This is why I simply won't buy a new phone until I've waited for the Anandtech review. It takes a long time to come out and even longer to read but it has saved me a few bad decisions and premature upgrades. As well as a tonne of cash. I'm still on my S8 and the missus is on the S7 and y'know what? They're just fine. My only issue with the S8 is a recent update which is resulting in markedly increased screen brightness when set to auto. Try and drag the brightness back down and it just goes back up again. I can only imagine that "feature" was added to convince people it's time to upgrade. The only other issue is a bit of lag here and there but it's not a massive issue. I'm in the UK, so I absolutely will NOT pay Samsung for a product that is so inferior to other markets but they market and expect me to value exactly the same. I'm no problem with different internals for different markets and I've no problem with parts being sourced from different suppliers. BUT, you either change the price to reflect the value or you keep the specs of the different parts near enough the same if you want the value to be the same.
Now, if you'll excuse me, for some strange reason my middle finger has gone stone cold and needs a rest. As if the blood has drained from it as a result of spending so much time erected in Samsung's direction.
Install Lux and let that manage the auto-brightness. On the S6, S7, and A8 (2018), Lux does a much better job managing brightness than Samsung's settings. And you can set your own targets for "at this level of ambient light, set the brightness to this level", which is especially handy for lower light levels.
On the S10e, I haven't bothered to install Lux, as Samsung's Adaptive Brightness eventually catches up to my preferences and is working well enough.
Ahh sweet, cheers! I'll have a look at that now. The adaptive brightness has worked fine for several years and only since an update has it gone very strange.
Can all the cameras on the s20+ record in 4k60fps? In the s10 only the main one could so you couldn't record in 4k60 while switching between the sensors.
While waiting for display accuracy comparison charts, can you post "old style" dE results so we can do our own comparisons? Or, even better, provide a timeline and list of devices that you're going to go back and retest using the new methodology/rating system?
I'm not a phone junkie, doh!, but isn't refresh rate tied to content/application coding? IOW, only content/applications written to display at 120 will benefit? Otherwise, won't the screen just refresh twice on the 60hz line?
No, there's no software application notion of displaying something at a given refresh rate - things just render as fast as possible unless. 3D games might have an FPS cap, but that's not refresh rate.
"If you can run a game at 100 frames per second, you may see a tangible benefit from playing it on a monitor that can refresh that many times per second. But if you’re watching a movie at a classic 24 FPS (frames per second), a higher refresh rate monitor won’t make any difference."
IOW, unless the processor sending either video or coded application images does so 120 per second, all the 120hz screen does is re-scan each image multiple times. how can the refresh rate create modified images, between those sent by the processor? or do 90/120hz screens do just that?
The screen refreshes at a set rate regardless of the content being sent to it. In this case, it always refreshes at 120Hz. If the content is in 24fps, each frame of the video persists for 5 refreshes of the display. To the eye, it looks no different than watching the same 24fps video on a 60Hz display.
Not true. It does not look the same to your eye, and the difference is the latency from the time that information is ready to display to the time it reaches your eye. The 120hz display will show that transition from e.g. the 23rd to the 24th frame significantly faster.
that's a may be. years ago I worked in a manufacturing plant, no windows and only florescent lights. one of the guys I worked with wore glasses that looked like very weak sunglasses, but no prescription. I asked him about them and he said his eye doctor prescribed them for his constant headaches. turns out that some folks rectify the 60hz flash of florescent light, and it hurts. the same phenomenon would occur with monitors. if you're not among the rectifiers, it's hard to see how you would see different at 120hz.
And yet, it's not hard to see at all. Response tests are undeniable. People's reactions are unquestionably faster on 120hz. Whether you notice the difference or not, it exists.
It matters to any game. If your game updates at 30fps, the 120hz display will get that information to your eye a fraction faster than the 60hz display, because the 'time to next frame' + 'time to display next frame' is always smaller on the 120hz.
Great review, thanks Andrei! Question: just how much power draw does the 5G modem add, especially the mm ones for us in the US? Along those lines, can the 5G function disabled in software, so not just deselected, but actually shut off? I imagine that the phone hunting for mm connectivity when it's not there could eat quite a bit of battery life.
I don't even have 5G coverage here so I wouldn't know!
Yes, 5G can be disabled in the options. I would assume that actually shuts off the extra RF. Similarly, I don't know how the mmWave antenna power management works.
Thanks for the reply! mm 5G coverage is supposedly "available" in some places here in the US, but I don't believe the carriers here have set up anywhere near enough cells for it to be viable. Plus, even if I'd get Gb download rates, they still have caps on their plans, unless one shells out for the premium unlimited ones. And those make the 20 Ultra's price tag look like a bargain (:
I live in Europe, I like Samsung and have S9 at the moment. But I will never pay +1000€ for lower quality Exynos S20 version in Europe! This is a big mistake from the company management to allow such a difference between this 2 variants at the same price! And I just read that they have chosen to sell Snapdragon version even for their home country: https://www.phonearena.com/news/Samsung-chip-divis...
The edge design of Samsung's more recent releases is just not good. There are no cases that can both properly protect the screen, and avoid blocking any of it. My older phones typically lasted for years without any significant damage. These new ones are one slip of the hand away from being garbage fodder.
Totally wrong calculation. It's 7.1mp when you crop 3x3. It's only possible to do full 12mp resolution with the help of Super resolution algorithm, which adds up to 75% more detail to 'normal bayer' setup
Great analysis, will go through it slowly but looking at that Exynos 990, Seriously WTF is that. Higher power consumption, lower GPU performance, higher throttling. Very unfortunate. And losing to that copycat Chinese Huawei Kirin trash (EMUI garbage with LZ Play backdoor, Read only EROFS Filesystem and Google copying that into Pixel 4 and the proprietary garbage NMSDslot no 3.5mm jack, No Play Store, lies and deception) Samsung should be ashamed of themselves removing all their genius whatever PR ads for milking customers and offering mediocrity.
The only good part for Exynos is unlockable bootloader. Since SD versions in US are locked as hell and useless for customization esp how they depreciated the SpO2 sensor in this phone HW and from SW side also in S10 and previous phones to promote bullshit Smartwatches.
This phone sucks bad, their S10 has better features and looks better as well on top this phone camera sucks, no 3.5mm jack and ugliest design ever with insane price tag on top, LG's V60 is looking very good in comparison from Camera to Audio and other features/specs plus price vs this phone or even that Chinese OP8 Pro (despite lacking SD slot and 3.5mm jack as at-least it is cheaper and has hassle free Bootloader unlock), since Samsung dropping HW feature set which defines the all in one phones from Samsung they want greed and money from that shitty Buds and other garbage.
S10+ Exynos is a better choice all rounder as it has BL unlock as well. On top I'd like to mention how DJ Koh also was removed from the Samsung mobile CEO office, I presume it also played an important role in S.LSI even if independent and the financial results of the conglomerate, esp how it impacted the design philosophy for sure as Note 10 provided a platform for removing features and cost cutting similar aspect in S20 a bit more worse.
On the Foundry aspects, TSMC 7NP is not EUV and Samsung 7nm LPP is EUV since N7+ is the EUV one. Not sure 20% to 30% is valid ? I do not know since the uArch is garbage doesn't mean that the node is trash, esp last rumor was Ampere would be on Samsung node with EUV and Nvidia wouldn't afford a stupid decision tbh, and a big shame is S.LSI getting hacked. I think the PR marketing team and the budgets ruined them or such, we may never know. Shame indeed.
No need for me to praise this review any longer. Still, I must nitpick. The 3dmark GPU test always has caveats in your reviews. Drop it if you feel it is detected by OEMs or it's a false GPU test like the physics one.
On web tests. I read on wiki that JetStream is an Apple made test, literally. Wouldn't you say that's a big caveat when testing against ios? Similarly Speedometer is developed by the webkit team at Apple. With Android webview based on Blink, not webkit, wouldn't Android smartphones be at a disadvantage against iphones? I don't see Kraken(Firefox) or Octane(Google) being used.
Kraken would actually be neutral to both. Other 3rd party tests might be Testdrive(Microsoft) or Basemark.
I don't think that the fact that the WebKit team made those tests is a valid argument against using them. You can go and read the source JS yourself if you wish, and they're industry accepted benchmarks. Both Kraken and Octane are ancient and outdated and we dropped them just like we dropped SunSpider of the early days.
Thank you Andrei, again the most comprehensive and reliable set of samples anywhere! There seems to be considerable sample variation again (last time with Samsung was the main module since S9 with the variable aperture) in the UWA, S20+E and S20UE should have absolutely identical UWA performance but the S20UE seems to have far worse sagittal resolution than the S20+E, and Samsung's processing isn't that good in the first place, considering the 12MP 1.4μm could produce incredibly sharp pictures as that been the specs of the Pixels' main module for generations. I don't regret their switch to f/1.8 because the old module that went up to f/1.5 wasn't sharp wide open, especially in the corners, but a further two stops' variation to f/3.3 could be useful for more DoF in closeups provided inserting that physical aperture into the tiny module doesn't compromise the optical design otherwise. This time around the E seems to generally outperform the S, except in color as E doesn't seem to have proper color fidelity...almost as if chroma NR is set too high even in broad daylight, and the "hybridization" of the digital zoom, in which the E clearly uses a smaller portion from the periscope's readout than the S in the resulting merge. Speaking of the zoom, S20+ still performs slightly worse at 2x(16MP readout) than S10's native 12MP, though the difference is small and could be down to lens variation. Considering S10U's Z height, they could've easily fixed the S20U like Xiaomi, going 1/2.3" f/2 12MP with the 2x. Xiaomi used it despite a 4-1 bin, all the more reason to use it with a 9-1 bin. S20U's corner performance at 3x would also be much improved. Regarding the comparison with the Fuji though, I suspect your unit has trouble focusing to infinity correctly, because the train and forest samples show clear superiority of the Fuji's zoom. I especially recognize that kind of slight haziness as being very responsive to dehaze and low radius sharpening in LR and would result in far more detail with extraction in post. Also, with an ILC, there's always stopping down a little for more sharpness and more DoF. Regarding the full res modes, it's not worth storing 108MP of data with the CFA asking for a 9-1 bin, of course the 64MP would be better, without the RAW it's hard to say for sure, but the 64MP seems to be quad bayer.
I don't agree with your remark about the night comparison with Mate30P though, the UWA is not "UW" so it has better image quality, that's true, and the night mode of the Mate30P is far superior, that's also true, but not auto mode, nor any aspect of the telephoto as it's clearly using a crop of the main for 3x. Samsung does attempt to use the 4x for telephoto and although there's a significant issue of chroma noise, it's far sharper than Mate30P's crop, with at least twice 3 times the effective resolution in night mode. With S20U you could also crop out a single shot 3-4x of similar brightness to the Mate30P crop, but it's just a crop. As for the potential of P40P surpassing S20U, that model operates on a 9.4MP crop by default, interpolated to 12.5MP which clearly has consequences. In daylight it's often a regression compared to P30P (much less match Mate30P), and in night shots using the current firmware it has severe color issues of rendering large portions of the scene as a crimson red, so it's hard to say at this point too.
I've been looking forward to getting one of these, not sure which yet. The fly in the ointment now is that I won't see my Mom (who gets my old S9+) until the Fall due to the whole COVID problem, not to mention less income. That will weigh heavily on sales of what is otherwise an amazing looking phone for me.
The same size as any other 12MP camera. They will depend on content, hdr, motion and compression options but I would expect about 36MB for a raw image and 8MB for a high quality jpeg.
I'm really amazed in the fact that the iPhone XR is still beating snapdragon 865 in GFXBench in both peak and sustained performance. I am hoping the OnePlus 8 has better sustained performance.
Amazing review! Always wait for this one before getting a new samsung. And I won't be getting any of the s20 phones. For me the kind of feel like "beta" phones. The 120hz which is not quite ready for 1440p yet, the underutilized 108mp camera, the space zoom which is blurry, the camera hole still being there the big camera bump and so on. I think all these features and more could be way more refined with the next galaxy s which I'll be waiting for. Also the poor exynos 990 performance especially the GPU part is just unacceptable to me. Especially with it probably being a lot better next year, so I'll skip this year
I have read many users complain about extra crazy post-processing on the S10/S20 series when there is a face detected in the frame. i.e. the phone will apply an aggressive 'smooth skin' filter that you can't disable unless you shoot RAW. I was hoping that your review might touch on this however there were no people in your example shots so perhaps you didn't get a chance to experience the problem. I wonder if you have heard of this issue and can replicate it yourself with the S20 range?
Hi Andrei, did you also run the bandwidth and MLP sweeps from previous reviews? Last year you noted the Snapdragon 855/A76 had peculiar behavior in the L1, and it would be also interesting to see if there are any MLP changes in both the SD865 and the Exynos.
Also, any idea why the new scores for these in 403.gcc seems to be worse than their previous generation products? In particular the score for the SD865 in these S20s is substantially worse than the SD865 score from the QRD preview article.
Yes I know. I don't know why that happens. I also got a V60 now and the scores there are higher, I'm wondering if there's something with Samsungs shared libraries.
What type of compile flags are used for these binaries? Are they the same for all of the tested binaries (or even same binary on each given platform)? Are LTO or PGO used (and if not why not)?
I'm also not convinced of this statement from the article:
"I had mentioned that the 7LPP process is quite a wildcard in the comparisons here. Luckily, I’ve been able to get my hands on a Snapdragon 765G, another SoC that’s manufactured on Samsung’s EUV process. It’s also quite a nice comparison as we’re able to compare that chip’s performance A76 cores at 2.4GHz to the middle A76 cores of the Exynos 990 which run at 2.5GHz. Performance and power between the two chips here pretty much match each other, and a clearly worse than other TSMC A76-based SoCs, especially the Kirin 990’s. The only conclusion here is that Samsung’s 7LPP node is quite behind TSMC’s N7/N7P/N7+ nodes when it comes to power efficiency – anywhere from 20 to 30%."
Both the energy consumed and the performance scores for both of these A76's seem to also very closely track the "mid" 2.43Ghz A76's on the TSMC-fabbed SD855 - all of which have similar L2's and similar frequencies, but possibly differ significantly (to the point of being suboptimal on latency) on the memory hierarchy and SoC beyond that - which greatly affects many of the SPEC workloads. All of these may also have implementation targets. Given this, is it really conclusive that the Samsung process is truly 20-30% worse in energy efficiency? Granted, things will probably not look pretty next year when TSMC is on a true 5nm and Samsung is not.
The test is just -Ofast without any other addition. LTO wasn't/isn't in a good state on the Android NDK - it's something to look into in maybe a new binary revision.
As for the 855 figures, well, that's also on an earlier 7nm. HiSilicon did a lot better in terms of they physical implementation. If not against N7, 7LPP clearly has a disadvantage against N7P/N7+.
Again, your S10+ Exynos results in pc mark are false as of 2020. In performance mode I easily get 9500 work 2.0 overall, about 9600 in browser bench, 21K in photo editing. PC mark in general is inconsistent, irrelevant benchmark, not representative of actual performance in daily usage. The same about these ancient SPEC synthetics. No one uses these for performance evaluation now.
Hi Andrei, Thanks for your detailed review. Any change Anandtech will be reviewing the note 20 later in the year (as Anandtech have not reviewed the note xx series past few years) ?
Reliable leaker @IceUniverse hints that Note series will implement an optimised solution for 120 Hz refresh rate - so I am assuming that to mean that power inefficiency issues at 120 hz refresh rate will be fixed in the note series. If you are going to review the Note series, at least we will know whats the improvement like as compared to Galaxy S series. Then I can decide if I want to import the Snapdragon 865 Note series or import S20 865 series and bear with the 120 Hz power consumption issue
I bought the first Galaxy Note for its size: My hands are much more capable than my eyes up close. I stuck around for the Note 3 and then abandoned the brand as they went off into Absurdistan with too much glass and metal replacing replaceable batteries (both Notes still work today with 2nd and 3rd sets of batteries).
But I’ve always longed to see another feature become mainstream usable, that these Notes started, albeit with serious functional limitations: Desktop or docking mode.
The Note 2 dock also worked with the Note 3 and it was the first that I tried to use for extra light business travel with a foldable BT keyboard even a BT mouse on an HDMI connected big screen. Mixed DPI support wasn’t quite up to snuff, even with custom ROMs that added Ethernet connectivity (security constraints mandated that in some cases).
In terms of computing power everything since the 820 has been enough for me in mobile use: If I really want to crunch numbers, I use HPC servers which I access via SSH, RDP or VNC and gaming is much more fun with an RTX 2080ti.
Phones as a VR headset replacement died far too quickly for my taste, my Le Max2 with its Le VR “luxury cardboard” companion still works pretty well, certainly for 3D movies.
So, the only reason I would even remotely consider buying one of these overpowered smartphones is if they could do double-duty as mid-line laptop replacements. Unless Corona’ed I switch countries every week and taking a €1200 smartphone instead of a €1200 laptop along for the ride, while enjoying a 43”@4k desktop in both offices has a great appeal, especially since RAM (16GB), storage (500GB) and compute power are similar enough to satisfy me.
I need both to handle the typical office/productivity stuff, surfing and the ability to access the big systems, be they compute farms or GeForce Now if I am in need for a monster kill. Yes, I love to be able to even run a Docker container in case I want to code something on the quick and up to chroot() that works pretty well with Android’s Linux kernel, even if it’s not quite as podman ready as the laptop.
Last Samsung I got was a Tab S5e a month ago and its DEX qualities are really much improved. It has perhaps 25% of the power and capacity of these phones (at 50% price) but shows what could obviously be done here. Yet I see no mention of DEX on the S20 and I fear that Samsung’s product management is…
The mere existence and perseverance of Exynos SoCs and rounded display edges prove that these people must be insane: Very sad, when you consider what the hardware could actually do! In the mean-time I am holding on to a very nice OnePlus 5 as daily driver, lovingly protected with a silicon sleeve that sports an elevated ridge around a flat display thus kept from drop’s harm with grip and buffer space. When I take it out for a bit of soap and water treatment, it looks like new.
Chassis materials, colors, design, finger tip smudges? I couldn’t care less and the Note 1-3 removable plastic covers were plain perfect for longevity and flexibility.
Great review.. somehow I haven’t seen these in the past but will watch for them now. Quick question... the chart on the first page shows all of the versions with dual sims.. a nano and esim. I was thinking of going for the Exynos because it’s been the only one listed as having dual sims but given the issues with 5g compatibility and the review you give it that seems like a really bad idea But if they all have dual sim it would make it a lot easier to leave my 10+ and get the 20+ or even splurge on the ultra on the chance they improve some of it via software updates.
Outstanding! The Anandtech articles are simple the best, the definitive tech guide for all tech lovers. Keep up with the high level of these tech articles that in my opinion are the "must go" for all people that are interested in buy a gadget and see the "behind scenes" information that manufactures will not tell you.
Do they have a reputation for not lasting? I'm considering this for an upgrade from my Galaxy S6 which is still working fine but I'd like a better camera.
I haven't tried the newer ones, but I owned Galaxy S1, Galaxy S3, LG G2 and G3, none lasted 2 years (G2 being the best one imo.). I switched to Oneplus after that. Oneplus 3T lasted almost 3 years, now I am rocking a Oneplus 7 which I paid $400 for on eBay.
I am actually a very forgiving person, I gave them 4 chances but they botched all. And then there was the Samsung Note catching fire left and right while Samsung PR was lying to cover up, that was the last straw for me. I was very skeptical when I switched to Oneplus, but I was very impressed with the build quality and speedy updates, the only weak point was the camera.
They say the battery life penalty means the extra performance isn't worth it. This fits with their energy use figures in the benchmarks which are very good. It also makes sense from a user perspective as the extra performance will not be noticeable in everyday use.
Thanks for great reviews:) I waited for this one like hell... With these Corona situations it's hard to find entertaining content and as always you nailed it best chipset reviews I've ever seen most will getaway with some benchmark and thats it Im really looking forward for the dimensity 1000 and kirin 820 to get a proper understanding of new Valhalla cores with a proper node (btw do you agree with huawei that they said they didn't use a77 because it didn't reach a certain clock(I know it had much higher ipc than a76)?)
Hi Andrei, Appreciate such a detailed article. I have one question, how did you pull the voltage curve, is there a command? I had S10 exynos then upgraded it to S20+ exynos, both the articles had this voltage curve though the Snapdragon variant does not, I would like to check the same for my device as well.
Though 865's compute efficiency loks pretty good, from some other data points I heard that its infrastructure power (impacting real user-daily activities, light-loaded scenarios) is quite BAD. Would be good if more such comparisons are available to confirm this, since it determines how long people can actually use a phone.
I am thinking we should calculate bat-capacity / hours instead of just hours to really show how is the SoCs overall efficiency.
Bigger and Bigger battery really make us feel heavier, we should push the designer harder to make these more efficiency instead of just using larger and larger battery.
"Bigger and Bigger battery really make us feel heavier, we should push the designer harder to make these more efficiency instead of just using larger and larger battery. "
last time I looked, most of the battery goes to driving the screen. so resurrect your original iPhone. the notion that batteries will have increasing power density this millennium is fantasy. Li is the smallest source of electrons available. well, unless you're willing to carry around a Hindenburg in your pocket.
Technically I'm with you but I just don't trust all developers to sufficiently optimize their code. You see that Peachncream guy who always claims that his dinosaur fossils run everything smoothly but it just doesn't happen to me. The way it is my S6E(backup device) that literally runs 3 apps in all(not even simultaneously, AFAIK) with animations turned off in dev mode is much slower than his...some really old low end phone, same thing with the battery, a large capacity gives me peace of mind over any optimization because I know that nothing could eat through the battery too fast.
This is the reason why I will not consider any Samsung Galaxy phone that is running on Exynos SOC. If it is on the low/ mid end, I can't complain about it. But when shelling out for a flagship, I don't see why one would pay the same amount for the slower variant and you don't have the choice to get the superior version locally.
I'd say they're focusing on camera GPU performance, which are the two areas of the phone where performance is not yet 'good enough'. Everything else just ... works.
They're focusing on anything that makes a selling point that people could care about. They also focused on the haptic motors and most mid-high tier phones should vibrate better than those 3-4 years ago.
Big brands are focusing on big cameras because they see Chinese phones, in particular Huawei, making a lot of waves in this area. Since it is very difficult to differentiate their products especially for Android phones, thus, whatever seems to rock with the consumer, every manufacturer will double down on the same features. First it was SOC, then they start spamming ram, follow by cameras, higher screen to body ratio, and now high refresh rate screen. You can tell Samsung is purely focusing on these areas I have mentioned as well.
"Why Samsung is able to call this a 3x telephoto module is that when cropping a 1:1 12MP picture out of it, it does end up at a 3x magnification in relation to the main camera sensor."
3x magnification by the sensor would crop 8 out of 9 pixels. For 64MP original, it would be 7.1MP, not 12.
I just ordered a brand new SD845 Note 9 for $350 to replace my current Exynos Note 9 with OLED black banding issues out-of-warranty. Replacing the screen aftermarket would cost $250 alone.
Anyway, I have no idea why anybody would want to pay $1000+ of IQ deficiency taxes for the current breed of half-baked Samsung phones. Even their home appliances and TVs are also rubbish in terms of value per dollar.
When will u start testing with Spec2017? Even arm despite being a marketer of its SOC uses both (spec2017 shows less scores) & U despite being a reviewer are too late.
I always come to these reviews for the photography comparison. They are done really well. Really surprised by the oversharpening on the Snapdragon model compared to the Exynos. The Pixel 4 would also do much better if you find the time to use the Night Sight feature during daytime photography. It improves white balance and detail rendition. Keep it up!
It seems that this "Game Optimizer Service" seems to be behind the problems caused in the s20 performance. It would be great if you could do a deep dive into it. Thank you.
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Shadowfax_25 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Excellent article, Andrei. The team over at XDA Developers managed to identify the adb commands which would allow you to set the display to either of the other refresh rates, so I'm sure Samsung could in some way introduce variable refresh rate switching.Here's the article for your perusal: https://www.xda-developers.com/samsung-galaxy-s20-...
Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Yea I saw that. In an ideal case Samsung would actually implement their own pseudo-VRR mode that switches between the display refresh rates based on content.Shadowfax_25 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
One more thing: it appears as if the commentary around the speaker evaluation is missing.Shadowfax_25 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Ignore, looks like it was a caching issue on my side.eastcoast_pete - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Yes, but that would make sense, and this is Samsung we're talking about here. Still, there's hope, I guess.CecilFitzgerald - Monday, October 12, 2020 - link
Machine learning is in great need now. During the coronavirus period, it would be nice to identify some dependencies and foresee what will happen next in the world. By the way, if you also need to write an essay on machine learning, then i advise you to turn to https://buypapercheap.net/affordable-term-papers-f... which offers writing term papers at affordable prices.yeeeeman - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Andrei, amazing review TBH. You have outdone yourself once again and, fie vorba intre noi, cred ca esti succesorul cel mai potrivit pentru Anand. Esti cel mai profi si cand vine vorba de detalii tehnice, dar si de idei interesante de comparatie intre diferite device-uri. Am scris in romana sa nu se supere colegii tai.Please try to add to the energy efficiency table, Ice Lake scores and maybe some energy usages like you have for mobile devices? That would be amazing!
Unashamed_unoriginal_username_x86 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
avem traducere Google, tipuleyeeeeman - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Tipule, era o glumita. Logic ca poti folosi traducerea.abufrejoval - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
Born German with Latin as my first foreign language, and with fluent Spanish and French picked up later, written down Romanian isn't nearly as hard to understand as the spoken language... bine, bine!crimson117 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
$1400 is absurd. There's no way they're worth more than twice as much as a brand new S10.Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Probably one of the reasons Samsung still continues to sell the S10 series. They're really excellent value right now, and you're not missing out on too much.cha0z_ - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
You are literally getting just one more year of software support going for s10 series... samsung software support policy is abysmal with less than two years of real support and from there just security. I got both iphone 11 pro max and exynos note 9, if I put aside the cr*ppy 9810 - it will not receive even the oneUI 2.1 as an update, while samsung will soon release it for s10 line. Enough said, note 9 is year and a half old.How can you recommend someone 1000 euro or 1400 euro phone if it will be supported for 1.5 years and from there 1.5 more security updates next to apple with 5 years FULL support with major, minor, day one, betas + security update for old iphones like 4s and 5 (2011 and 2012 respectably)?
goatfajitas - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
You do realize the phone doesn't stop working when it doesn't get an OS update right? TBH, neither Android or IOS has added a whole lot in the past few years, its just a yearly cadence of very minor updates and not getting them means almost zero in actual use.Featherinmycap - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
I think there have been a lot of added features to IOS in the last 3 years that I use a great deal. Not saying that Android didnt already have some of these features, but for IOS users we got with IOS 11; a file manager (finally), Messages sync with iCloud, screen recording, useful improvements to Siri and ApplePay. IOS12; lots of performance improvements (lots), Screentime, Shortcuts (scripting), CarPlay, Animoji Memoji, Tracking prevention, IOS13; Single Sign on, external storage, Dark Mode, better support for keyboards, trackpads/mice, etc.Famorcan007 - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
I think it's because Android mostly has offered those features(file manager,screen recording, external storage,support for mice etc.) since way back compared to iOS' slow but steady trickle of features that's why iOS users feel every OS update is huge and significant. I'm using a Note 4(my backup device) right now to comment which doesn't feel too crippled compared to my Android 9 P20 pro.cha0z_ - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
Let's not find an excuse - software support is software support. Security is security - some of us keep all their personal info on their device (most of us) + bank accounts and whatnot, risking compromise on your phone is not that innocent compared to what was like back in the days. IOS adds rapidly more features for sure compared to android that recently starts to look more and more like IOS (and I personally totally don't like that), but still added some good stuff under the hood and some new features.It's not serious to sell 1400 euro phone that is supported for one year and a half. I own exynos note 9 - it's 1.5 years old and already samsung dropped the support, s10 line received oneUI 2.1, note 9 will not. How is that for my 1000 euro phone + double served with that cr*ppy exynos 9810 in it. Now it's in my GF and I am rolling iphone 11 pro max. I prefer android and love oneUI, but I am tired to be a second hand customer.
s.yu - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
Don't know what you're talking about. My Note8 just got another update days ago, one that I preferred not to have because each update comes with a risk of bricking the device while potential changes to the UI are not always welcome either. I also got it ~30% off retail a few months after release, such has always been the state of Samsung, at least for S and Note.I'm no longer buying Samsung but the main reason is lack of the 3.5mm port, if I have to name another then it's between the questionable choice of telephoto in the smaller variants or the oversized device with a mediocre battery(I regard 5000mah to be mediocre for the size). I still do like the UI but I'm willing to look around.
Psyside - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
"It's not serious to sell 1400 euro phone that is supported for one year and a half. I own exynos note 9 - it's 1.5 years old and already samsung dropped the support, s10 line received oneUI 2.1, note 9 will not. How is that for my 1000 euro phone"Very easy, with those "very old software features" Samsung can do what MAC can't, and don't get me start it on the utter crap IOS.
Also don't spin it, Samsung offer 4 (four) years of security updates, so do your research before you type something.
cha0z_ - Wednesday, April 8, 2020 - link
fanboy. Security update hahahahah iphone 4s and 5 still receives security updates - 9 years old phone for 4s. What you will say now?iphone receive FULL support with MAJOR ios versions, updates, minor updates, BETA versions, DAY ONE as their newest and most expensive phone - for 5-6 years and you are talking about 4 years of security updates roflmao. Samsung released note 9 with android 8 when android 9 was already released from more than a months. Oooo, it's enough time, because you can dev your skin and features on top of the dev previews, especially the later ones that are closer to final (for the more tricky/deeply integrated code) - so no excuse for what they did. Basically they gave me one major update - android 10 as android 9 should had been on the note 9 from the start. Even if we count 2, how is that next to 5-6 versions of ios?
And before you talk some more fanboy bs that never used recent years iphones - ios brings a lot more in every new versions (adding features that was missing for no reason, like external USB flash support, file browser for the files on the phone, etc) while android 10 brings you what? More lockdown ios style, iphones gestures and pixel device that is a cheap iphone wannabe.
Because of people like you samsung don't want to change their software support policy. Why should they? It costs money or now you will start with the argument how the phone hardware is not supporting oneUI 2.1 (for the note 9 that is 1.5 years old, but will not receive it most likely ;) ). Or maybe android 11 will be too much for the phone, right? :D
Also I agree - my note 9 can do more than my iphone 11 pro max, but everything that the phones do both (and that's 99.9% of what you will end up using constantly) - the iphone 11 pro max makes the exynos note 9 look like a total utter joke - faster, smoother with NOT A SINGLE frame drop no matter what you do, gaming is insanely good with surprise - NOT A SINGLE frame drop, battery life is x3 times better, apps have MORE features and runs super smooth and great, speakers destroys the note 9 one, camera too is times better, materials are a lot better too, faceid is super good and fast - feels like I don't have any security on - never failed or gave me any issue. Fun fact, note 9 came with fortnite and recommended as gaming phone for that game. My exynos variant can't run smoothly the game even with 30fps cap medium settings and !1080p! while iphone XS max runs it 60fps high 2688x1242 without a single frame drop. Same goes for the 11 pro max, obviously.
As for ios - it improves massively and adds more and more missing features/drops restrictions with every version. ios 14 is already known to drop more. I prefer android, because I can do more + I love oneUI, but that doesn't change the fact that in my country I will receive exynos and 1.5 years of decent support. And in the end of the day - I spend my time in apps, not in the settings menu and apps on ios are better, with more features, smoother, a lot of them exclusive to the platform. Can you play dead cells on your android device? No? Yeah, the port is expected around the end of the year, I have it from June 2019. Full blown civilization 6 on your android device? Yeah, will never come, I have it and it's 1:1 port that runs great. Can go on and on and on. If you spend your time tweaking settings, options, UI - good for you, I spend my time in games and apps.
iSeptimus - Sunday, April 12, 2020 - link
They really don't. 2 years max on updates and the security patches only come out when it is critical after that.My Galaxy Fold only just got One UI 2.1 and Android 10. The most expensive phone they do and they are already slowing down updates for it. Samsung suck at software.
MAGAover9000 - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
Sounds like a positive TBH. I hate some of the updates.Omega215D - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
That's for the maxed out S20 Ultra, what S10 are you comparing it to? There are the following additions to the S20 lineup: camera tech, 5G, battery capacities, mobile chipsets, display tech, etc. Now not everyone may find those attractive enough to jump on board that doesn't mean they have to buy the damn thing.Threska - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
5G is probably the biggest push for cost, since 5G phones usually run in the $1,000 range.Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
The Galaxy S20 and S20+ 4G variants have the same launch prices as S10 and S10+ - with the only caveat being that they're only available in certain markets, with the US missing from that list.So in that sense, the only thing you're paying extra for is the 5G.
FunBunny2 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
"5G phones usually run in the $1,000 range"I still don't get why anyone would pay for "5G". mmWave is barely extant. Verizon, for one, adverts pump up use in football stadiums (if we ever have such), 'so it must be great for you' kind of thing. while sub6 is barely perceptibly different LTE. Why? If there's ever a true build out of mmWave, it'll be in suburban subdivisions with plenty of street lights, no longer the norm. In cities, you'll need some sort of '5G' wifi inside any kind of building with a (massive?) dish on the roof. Ah cannaw change da laws of physic, capn.
shabby - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
We don't have a choice, Qualcomm is forcing it onto us.s.yu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Qualcomm's going with the flow of the industry, there's no way but forward ;)But anyway, the Luneburg lenses China Mobile showcased, if they're compatible with mmWave, and if they're even willing to sell them(the issue is cost and somehow they're able to make them much cheaper, cheap enough for civilian use), then they could drastically increase coverage at essentially the same power levels.
PeachNCream - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Yup, that's a lot to pay for something that you carry around on a daily basis and expose to the outdoor world including weather, impact, and theft. I know the TELCOs are hiding the cost inside monthly payments over the life of a contract so most buyers will not take note of the price over say an $800 dollar handset, but wow people are forking over a lot of their earnings just to carry around a status symbol that other people will stop caring about after a couple of months.FunBunny2 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
"wow people are forking over a lot of their earnings just to carry around a status symbol"why does a Ferrari cost 3 times a Ford (not the GT, of course)? because the capital investment to make either is nearly the same, but spread out over a fraction of units. same with "5G" phones. the capital to make all those specialized bits and pieces, whether Samsung made or bought it, is about the same, but separate, from the capital to make a moto G6, etc. but far fewer units. unlike the march to LTE, "5G" is more likely to be a toddler's waddle. with sky high prices as an added benefit.
there was a headline recently that the Swiss watch industry is on a ventilator, few have any need for such bling. can the bling smartphone be far behind? at least your scion can use that Patek Philippe in 50 years.
s.yu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Not just economy of scale, 5G has higher material cost even if cost per unit is the same, for example you easily need over a dozen antennas in a handset. Massive parallelism is fundamental for 5G.Peskarik - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Swiss watch industry consisted of a large number of small firms that bought in parts from China but marketed at premium price. These will not survive. Rolex/AP/Patek have queues years long, now they also stopped production, there is no excess supply, demand is still there just a bit dormant, especially Asian demand. They will be fine. Omega / Longines will survive due to lower price and high numbers produced. IMHOFunBunny2 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
"Swiss watch industry consisted of a large number of small firms that bought in parts from China but marketed at premium price."actually, most are required, by law, to buy Swiss. at least horological parts. of those brands, most are either owned by Swatch or buy movements (more or less complete) from Swatch. a few years ago the Swiss government, after Swatch had bought up ETA and other movement suppliers, allowed Swatch to cease supplying movements to the trade. rather a big stink ensued. last I checked, Swatch had in fact cease supplying.
damianrobertjones - Thursday, April 23, 2020 - link
It baffles me that you used a capital S for, 'Swatch', yet didn't place any at the start of your sentences?! What the hell is happening to the English language?Peskarik - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
wait for corona to hit economy properly, maybe there will not be so much sales of 1000+ handsetsMgz - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
$1400 is absurd ofc, In Vietnam since we made them so price is more reasonable - but we do not have 5G yet and we have that inferior version Exynos :(S20 is 680$
S20+ is 780$
S20 Ultra is 930$
s.yu - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
Haha, I just looked on Taobao and the price of the SK version is comparable while it's SD this generation.I sometimes wonder if the locals in SK could even get that Taobao price off contract.
RoC_17 - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
Not only is the price tag obsurd, also it's the performance disparities between Snapdragon and Exynos, and weighting that with the price tag is Idiocracy². Why would I buy the Exynos crap for the same price than the Snapdragon parts? I've been with Samsung for nearly 10 years for phones and tablets along, but that's it. That I'm European doesn't mean I am an idiot willing to throw my money out of the window.PallavM - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
It is for sure, if this is how much the 5G phones are gonna cost I'm happy with my 4G phoneStrangerGuy - Wednesday, April 8, 2020 - link
$1400? Geez, I thought $1100 for the Ultra here in Singapore was already stupid overpriced especially when all S20 variants here are only available in 128GB, and the Note 10+ 256GB is just $590.StrangerGuy - Wednesday, April 8, 2020 - link
$1400? Geez, I thought $1100 for the Ultra here in Singapore was already stupid overpriced especially when all S20 variants here are only available in 128GB and the Note 10+ 256GB is just $590.Cliff34 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
When I upgraded from s3 to s7, I was so impress by the new phone. Long battery life, great camera and fast cpu.Now I upgraded to s20+ and instead of feeling the aww feeling, I'm more like meh.
It comes w great features but they are all come w a cost. Great camera but if you take 64meg photos, it takes a few seconds to process. Great screen but if you switch on 120 hertz, your battery drains fast.
Hindsight, s20 is good enough for me.
philehidiot - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
This is why I simply won't buy a new phone until I've waited for the Anandtech review. It takes a long time to come out and even longer to read but it has saved me a few bad decisions and premature upgrades. As well as a tonne of cash. I'm still on my S8 and the missus is on the S7 and y'know what? They're just fine. My only issue with the S8 is a recent update which is resulting in markedly increased screen brightness when set to auto. Try and drag the brightness back down and it just goes back up again. I can only imagine that "feature" was added to convince people it's time to upgrade. The only other issue is a bit of lag here and there but it's not a massive issue. I'm in the UK, so I absolutely will NOT pay Samsung for a product that is so inferior to other markets but they market and expect me to value exactly the same. I'm no problem with different internals for different markets and I've no problem with parts being sourced from different suppliers. BUT, you either change the price to reflect the value or you keep the specs of the different parts near enough the same if you want the value to be the same.Now, if you'll excuse me, for some strange reason my middle finger has gone stone cold and needs a rest. As if the blood has drained from it as a result of spending so much time erected in Samsung's direction.
phoenix_rizzen - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Install Lux and let that manage the auto-brightness. On the S6, S7, and A8 (2018), Lux does a much better job managing brightness than Samsung's settings. And you can set your own targets for "at this level of ambient light, set the brightness to this level", which is especially handy for lower light levels.On the S10e, I haven't bothered to install Lux, as Samsung's Adaptive Brightness eventually catches up to my preferences and is working well enough.
philehidiot - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Ahh sweet, cheers! I'll have a look at that now. The adaptive brightness has worked fine for several years and only since an update has it gone very strange.shabby - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Can all the cameras on the s20+ record in 4k60fps? In the s10 only the main one could so you couldn't record in 4k60 while switching between the sensors.Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
It's unfortunately still only limited to the main camera module.shabby - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Damnitiamlilysdad - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
While waiting for display accuracy comparison charts, can you post "old style" dE results so we can do our own comparisons? Or, even better, provide a timeline and list of devices that you're going to go back and retest using the new methodology/rating system?FunBunny2 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
I'm not a phone junkie, doh!, but isn't refresh rate tied to content/application coding? IOW, only content/applications written to display at 120 will benefit? Otherwise, won't the screen just refresh twice on the 60hz line?Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
No, there's no software application notion of displaying something at a given refresh rate - things just render as fast as possible unless. 3D games might have an FPS cap, but that's not refresh rate.FunBunny2 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
this is what I mean."If you can run a game at 100 frames per second, you may see a tangible benefit from playing it on a monitor that can refresh that many times per second. But if you’re watching a movie at a classic 24 FPS (frames per second), a higher refresh rate monitor won’t make any difference."
here: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/do-you-nee...
IOW, unless the processor sending either video or coded application images does so 120 per second, all the 120hz screen does is re-scan each image multiple times. how can the refresh rate create modified images, between those sent by the processor? or do 90/120hz screens do just that?
do you disagree with that author?
krazyfrog - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
The screen refreshes at a set rate regardless of the content being sent to it. In this case, it always refreshes at 120Hz. If the content is in 24fps, each frame of the video persists for 5 refreshes of the display. To the eye, it looks no different than watching the same 24fps video on a 60Hz display.surt - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
Not true. It does not look the same to your eye, and the difference is the latency from the time that information is ready to display to the time it reaches your eye. The 120hz display will show that transition from e.g. the 23rd to the 24th frame significantly faster.FunBunny2 - Sunday, April 5, 2020 - link
" It does not look the same to your eye"that's a may be. years ago I worked in a manufacturing plant, no windows and only florescent lights. one of the guys I worked with wore glasses that looked like very weak sunglasses, but no prescription. I asked him about them and he said his eye doctor prescribed them for his constant headaches. turns out that some folks rectify the 60hz flash of florescent light, and it hurts. the same phenomenon would occur with monitors. if you're not among the rectifiers, it's hard to see how you would see different at 120hz.
surt - Sunday, April 5, 2020 - link
And yet, it's not hard to see at all. Response tests are undeniable. People's reactions are unquestionably faster on 120hz. Whether you notice the difference or not, it exists.surt - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
It matters to any game. If your game updates at 30fps, the 120hz display will get that information to your eye a fraction faster than the 60hz display, because the 'time to next frame' + 'time to display next frame' is always smaller on the 120hz.eastcoast_pete - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Great review, thanks Andrei! Question: just how much power draw does the 5G modem add, especially the mm ones for us in the US? Along those lines, can the 5G function disabled in software, so not just deselected, but actually shut off? I imagine that the phone hunting for mm connectivity when it's not there could eat quite a bit of battery life.Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
I don't even have 5G coverage here so I wouldn't know!Yes, 5G can be disabled in the options. I would assume that actually shuts off the extra RF. Similarly, I don't know how the mmWave antenna power management works.
eastcoast_pete - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Thanks for the reply! mm 5G coverage is supposedly "available" in some places here in the US, but I don't believe the carriers here have set up anywhere near enough cells for it to be viable. Plus, even if I'd get Gb download rates, they still have caps on their plans, unless one shells out for the premium unlimited ones. And those make the 20 Ultra's price tag look like a bargain (:Reflex78 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
I live in Europe, I like Samsung and have S9 at the moment.But I will never pay +1000€ for lower quality Exynos S20 version in Europe!
This is a big mistake from the company management to allow such a difference between this 2 variants at the same price!
And I just read that they have chosen to sell Snapdragon version even for their home country:
https://www.phonearena.com/news/Samsung-chip-divis...
twtech - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
The edge design of Samsung's more recent releases is just not good. There are no cases that can both properly protect the screen, and avoid blocking any of it. My older phones typically lasted for years without any significant damage. These new ones are one slip of the hand away from being garbage fodder.FunBunny2 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
"These new ones are one slip of the hand away from being garbage fodder."rube!! :) it's a feature, not a bug. going back to Lotus/MS conflict: "DOS ain't done til 1-2-3 won't run."
Harysviewty - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Totally wrong calculation. It's 7.1mp when you crop 3x3. It's only possible to do full 12mp resolution with the help of Super resolution algorithm, which adds up to 75% more detail to 'normal bayer' setupAndrei Frumusanu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
I don't know what you're talking about. The sensor is 108MP at 12000 x 9000. 3x3 binning results in 4000 x 3000, which is 12MP.krazyfrog - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
The 3x3 binning only happens on the 108MP sensor, not on the 64MP sensor.s.yu - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
You said "crop 3x3" which confuses people, usually we just say 3x crop, but yes, the digital zoom doesn't provide native 12MP in any sense at 3x.JDSP - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Image links on the iPhone are wrong, Wide links to zoom and night sight links to normalAndrei Frumusanu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Corrected that, thanks. There's probably a few other link issues there I'll keep an eye out for that.Quantumz0d - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Great analysis, will go through it slowly but looking at that Exynos 990, Seriously WTF is that. Higher power consumption, lower GPU performance, higher throttling. Very unfortunate. And losing to that copycat Chinese Huawei Kirin trash (EMUI garbage with LZ Play backdoor, Read only EROFS Filesystem and Google copying that into Pixel 4 and the proprietary garbage NMSDslot no 3.5mm jack, No Play Store, lies and deception) Samsung should be ashamed of themselves removing all their genius whatever PR ads for milking customers and offering mediocrity.The only good part for Exynos is unlockable bootloader. Since SD versions in US are locked as hell and useless for customization esp how they depreciated the SpO2 sensor in this phone HW and from SW side also in S10 and previous phones to promote bullshit Smartwatches.
This phone sucks bad, their S10 has better features and looks better as well on top this phone camera sucks, no 3.5mm jack and ugliest design ever with insane price tag on top, LG's V60 is looking very good in comparison from Camera to Audio and other features/specs plus price vs this phone or even that Chinese OP8 Pro (despite lacking SD slot and 3.5mm jack as at-least it is cheaper and has hassle free Bootloader unlock), since Samsung dropping HW feature set which defines the all in one phones from Samsung they want greed and money from that shitty Buds and other garbage.
S10+ Exynos is a better choice all rounder as it has BL unlock as well. On top I'd like to mention how DJ Koh also was removed from the Samsung mobile CEO office, I presume it also played an important role in S.LSI even if independent and the financial results of the conglomerate, esp how it impacted the design philosophy for sure as Note 10 provided a platform for removing features and cost cutting similar aspect in S20 a bit more worse.
On the Foundry aspects, TSMC 7NP is not EUV and Samsung 7nm LPP is EUV since N7+ is the EUV one. Not sure 20% to 30% is valid ? I do not know since the uArch is garbage doesn't mean that the node is trash, esp last rumor was Ampere would be on Samsung node with EUV and Nvidia wouldn't afford a stupid decision tbh, and a big shame is S.LSI getting hacked. I think the PR marketing team and the budgets ruined them or such, we may never know. Shame indeed.
MAGAover9000 - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
I have the s10+. Fantastic device. Very happyid4andrei - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
No need for me to praise this review any longer. Still, I must nitpick. The 3dmark GPU test always has caveats in your reviews. Drop it if you feel it is detected by OEMs or it's a false GPU test like the physics one.On web tests. I read on wiki that JetStream is an Apple made test, literally. Wouldn't you say that's a big caveat when testing against ios? Similarly Speedometer is developed by the webkit team at Apple. With Android webview based on Blink, not webkit, wouldn't Android smartphones be at a disadvantage against iphones? I don't see Kraken(Firefox) or Octane(Google) being used.
Kraken would actually be neutral to both. Other 3rd party tests might be Testdrive(Microsoft) or Basemark.
Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
I don't think that the fact that the WebKit team made those tests is a valid argument against using them. You can go and read the source JS yourself if you wish, and they're industry accepted benchmarks. Both Kraken and Octane are ancient and outdated and we dropped them just like we dropped SunSpider of the early days.id4andrei - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Thank you for the prompt answer.s.yu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Thank you Andrei, again the most comprehensive and reliable set of samples anywhere!There seems to be considerable sample variation again (last time with Samsung was the main module since S9 with the variable aperture) in the UWA, S20+E and S20UE should have absolutely identical UWA performance but the S20UE seems to have far worse sagittal resolution than the S20+E, and Samsung's processing isn't that good in the first place, considering the 12MP 1.4μm could produce incredibly sharp pictures as that been the specs of the Pixels' main module for generations.
I don't regret their switch to f/1.8 because the old module that went up to f/1.5 wasn't sharp wide open, especially in the corners, but a further two stops' variation to f/3.3 could be useful for more DoF in closeups provided inserting that physical aperture into the tiny module doesn't compromise the optical design otherwise.
This time around the E seems to generally outperform the S, except in color as E doesn't seem to have proper color fidelity...almost as if chroma NR is set too high even in broad daylight, and the "hybridization" of the digital zoom, in which the E clearly uses a smaller portion from the periscope's readout than the S in the resulting merge. Speaking of the zoom, S20+ still performs slightly worse at 2x(16MP readout) than S10's native 12MP, though the difference is small and could be down to lens variation. Considering S10U's Z height, they could've easily fixed the S20U like Xiaomi, going 1/2.3" f/2 12MP with the 2x. Xiaomi used it despite a 4-1 bin, all the more reason to use it with a 9-1 bin. S20U's corner performance at 3x would also be much improved.
Regarding the comparison with the Fuji though, I suspect your unit has trouble focusing to infinity correctly, because the train and forest samples show clear superiority of the Fuji's zoom. I especially recognize that kind of slight haziness as being very responsive to dehaze and low radius sharpening in LR and would result in far more detail with extraction in post. Also, with an ILC, there's always stopping down a little for more sharpness and more DoF.
Regarding the full res modes, it's not worth storing 108MP of data with the CFA asking for a 9-1 bin, of course the 64MP would be better, without the RAW it's hard to say for sure, but the 64MP seems to be quad bayer.
s.yu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
I don't agree with your remark about the night comparison with Mate30P though, the UWA is not "UW" so it has better image quality, that's true, and the night mode of the Mate30P is far superior, that's also true, but not auto mode, nor any aspect of the telephoto as it's clearly using a crop of the main for 3x. Samsung does attempt to use the 4x for telephoto and although there's a significant issue of chroma noise, it's far sharper than Mate30P's crop, with at least twice 3 times the effective resolution in night mode. With S20U you could also crop out a single shot 3-4x of similar brightness to the Mate30P crop, but it's just a crop.As for the potential of P40P surpassing S20U, that model operates on a 9.4MP crop by default, interpolated to 12.5MP which clearly has consequences. In daylight it's often a regression compared to P30P (much less match Mate30P), and in night shots using the current firmware it has severe color issues of rendering large portions of the scene as a crimson red, so it's hard to say at this point too.
s.yu - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Oh, there's exception of the Mate30P auto mode in the last sample, but the night mode isn't constantly superior either.RealBeast - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
I've been looking forward to getting one of these, not sure which yet. The fly in the ointment now is that I won't see my Mom (who gets my old S9+) until the Fall due to the whole COVID problem, not to mention less income. That will weigh heavily on sales of what is otherwise an amazing looking phone for me.29a - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
How large are the picture file sizes created by this thing?BedfordTim - Sunday, April 5, 2020 - link
The same size as any other 12MP camera. They will depend on content, hdr, motion and compression options but I would expect about 36MB for a raw image and 8MB for a high quality jpeg.toyeboy89 - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
I'm really amazed in the fact that the iPhone XR is still beating snapdragon 865 in GFXBench in both peak and sustained performance. I am hoping the OnePlus 8 has better sustained performance.TMCThomas - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Amazing review! Always wait for this one before getting a new samsung. And I won't be getting any of the s20 phones. For me the kind of feel like "beta" phones. The 120hz which is not quite ready for 1440p yet, the underutilized 108mp camera, the space zoom which is blurry, the camera hole still being there the big camera bump and so on. I think all these features and more could be way more refined with the next galaxy s which I'll be waiting for. Also the poor exynos 990 performance especially the GPU part is just unacceptable to me. Especially with it probably being a lot better next year, so I'll skip this yearwheeliebin - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Thanks Andrei, really good review!I have read many users complain about extra crazy post-processing on the S10/S20 series when there is a face detected in the frame. i.e. the phone will apply an aggressive 'smooth skin' filter that you can't disable unless you shoot RAW. I was hoping that your review might touch on this however there were no people in your example shots so perhaps you didn't get a chance to experience the problem. I wonder if you have heard of this issue and can replicate it yourself with the S20 range?
anonomouse - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Hi Andrei, did you also run the bandwidth and MLP sweeps from previous reviews? Last year you noted the Snapdragon 855/A76 had peculiar behavior in the L1, and it would be also interesting to see if there are any MLP changes in both the SD865 and the Exynos.anonomouse - Friday, April 3, 2020 - link
Also, any idea why the new scores for these in 403.gcc seems to be worse than their previous generation products? In particular the score for the SD865 in these S20s is substantially worse than the SD865 score from the QRD preview article.Andrei Frumusanu - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
Yes I know. I don't know why that happens. I also got a V60 now and the scores there are higher, I'm wondering if there's something with Samsungs shared libraries.anonomouse - Sunday, April 5, 2020 - link
What type of compile flags are used for these binaries? Are they the same for all of the tested binaries (or even same binary on each given platform)? Are LTO or PGO used (and if not why not)?I'm also not convinced of this statement from the article:
"I had mentioned that the 7LPP process is quite a wildcard in the comparisons here. Luckily, I’ve been able to get my hands on a Snapdragon 765G, another SoC that’s manufactured on Samsung’s EUV process. It’s also quite a nice comparison as we’re able to compare that chip’s performance A76 cores at 2.4GHz to the middle A76 cores of the Exynos 990 which run at 2.5GHz. Performance and power between the two chips here pretty much match each other, and a clearly worse than other TSMC A76-based SoCs, especially the Kirin 990’s. The only conclusion here is that Samsung’s 7LPP node is quite behind TSMC’s N7/N7P/N7+ nodes when it comes to power efficiency – anywhere from 20 to 30%."
Both the energy consumed and the performance scores for both of these A76's seem to also very closely track the "mid" 2.43Ghz A76's on the TSMC-fabbed SD855 - all of which have similar L2's and similar frequencies, but possibly differ significantly (to the point of being suboptimal on latency) on the memory hierarchy and SoC beyond that - which greatly affects many of the SPEC workloads. All of these may also have implementation targets. Given this, is it really conclusive that the Samsung process is truly 20-30% worse in energy efficiency? Granted, things will probably not look pretty next year when TSMC is on a true 5nm and Samsung is not.
Andrei Frumusanu - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
The test is just -Ofast without any other addition. LTO wasn't/isn't in a good state on the Android NDK - it's something to look into in maybe a new binary revision.As for the 855 figures, well, that's also on an earlier 7nm. HiSilicon did a lot better in terms of they physical implementation. If not against N7, 7LPP clearly has a disadvantage against N7P/N7+.
Andrei Frumusanu - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
I'll add them in, that test takes a whole day and I needed the phones doing battery tests and other stuff.dad_at - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
Again, your S10+ Exynos results in pc mark are false as of 2020. In performance mode I easily get 9500 work 2.0 overall, about 9600 in browser bench, 21K in photo editing. PC mark in general is inconsistent, irrelevant benchmark, not representative of actual performance in daily usage. The same about these ancient SPEC synthetics. No one uses these for performance evaluation now.iphonebestgamephone - Sunday, April 5, 2020 - link
Oh and what does a pro like you use?sanjeev.k - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
Hi Andrei,Thanks for your detailed review. Any change Anandtech will be reviewing the note 20 later in the year (as Anandtech have not reviewed the note xx series past few years) ?
Reliable leaker @IceUniverse hints that Note series will implement an optimised solution for 120 Hz refresh rate - so I am assuming that to mean that power inefficiency issues at 120 hz refresh rate will be fixed in the note series.
If you are going to review the Note series, at least we will know whats the improvement like as compared to Galaxy S series. Then I can decide if I want to import the Snapdragon 865 Note series or import S20 865 series and bear with the 120 Hz power consumption issue
abufrejoval - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
I bought the first Galaxy Note for its size: My hands are much more capable than my eyes up close. I stuck around for the Note 3 and then abandoned the brand as they went off into Absurdistan with too much glass and metal replacing replaceable batteries (both Notes still work today with 2nd and 3rd sets of batteries).But I’ve always longed to see another feature become mainstream usable, that these Notes started, albeit with serious functional limitations: Desktop or docking mode.
The Note 2 dock also worked with the Note 3 and it was the first that I tried to use for extra light business travel with a foldable BT keyboard even a BT mouse on an HDMI connected big screen. Mixed DPI support wasn’t quite up to snuff, even with custom ROMs that added Ethernet connectivity (security constraints mandated that in some cases).
In terms of computing power everything since the 820 has been enough for me in mobile use: If I really want to crunch numbers, I use HPC servers which I access via SSH, RDP or VNC and gaming is much more fun with an RTX 2080ti.
Phones as a VR headset replacement died far too quickly for my taste, my Le Max2 with its Le VR “luxury cardboard” companion still works pretty well, certainly for 3D movies.
So, the only reason I would even remotely consider buying one of these overpowered smartphones is if they could do double-duty as mid-line laptop replacements. Unless Corona’ed I switch countries every week and taking a €1200 smartphone instead of a €1200 laptop along for the ride, while enjoying a 43”@4k desktop in both offices has a great appeal, especially since RAM (16GB), storage (500GB) and compute power are similar enough to satisfy me.
I need both to handle the typical office/productivity stuff, surfing and the ability to access the big systems, be they compute farms or GeForce Now if I am in need for a monster kill. Yes, I love to be able to even run a Docker container in case I want to code something on the quick and up to chroot() that works pretty well with Android’s Linux kernel, even if it’s not quite as podman ready as the laptop.
Last Samsung I got was a Tab S5e a month ago and its DEX qualities are really much improved. It has perhaps 25% of the power and capacity of these phones (at 50% price) but shows what could obviously be done here. Yet I see no mention of DEX on the S20 and I fear that Samsung’s product management is…
The mere existence and perseverance of Exynos SoCs and rounded display edges prove that these people must be insane: Very sad, when you consider what the hardware could actually do!
In the mean-time I am holding on to a very nice OnePlus 5 as daily driver, lovingly protected with a silicon sleeve that sports an elevated ridge around a flat display thus kept from drop’s harm with grip and buffer space. When I take it out for a bit of soap and water treatment, it looks like new.
Chassis materials, colors, design, finger tip smudges? I couldn’t care less and the Note 1-3 removable plastic covers were plain perfect for longevity and flexibility.
Rorange68 - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
Great review.. somehow I haven’t seen these in the past but will watch for them now. Quick question... the chart on the first page shows all of the versions with dual sims.. a nano and esim. I was thinking of going for the Exynos because it’s been the only one listed as having dual sims but given the issues with 5g compatibility and the review you give it that seems like a really bad idea But if they all have dual sim it would make it a lot easier to leave my 10+ and get the 20+ or even splurge on the ultra on the chance they improve some of it via software updates.Rorange68 - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
*5g comparability between for the Exxon’s version and US carriersMarcSant - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
Outstanding! The Anandtech articles are simple the best, the definitive tech guide for all tech lovers. Keep up with the high level of these tech articles that in my opinion are the "must go" for all people that are interested in buy a gadget and see the "behind scenes" information that manufactures will not tell you.airdrifting - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
No thanks on overpriced, never last, slow update, buggy software Korean garbage.surt - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
Do they have a reputation for not lasting? I'm considering this for an upgrade from my Galaxy S6 which is still working fine but I'd like a better camera.airdrifting - Saturday, April 4, 2020 - link
I haven't tried the newer ones, but I owned Galaxy S1, Galaxy S3, LG G2 and G3, none lasted 2 years (G2 being the best one imo.). I switched to Oneplus after that. Oneplus 3T lasted almost 3 years, now I am rocking a Oneplus 7 which I paid $400 for on eBay.shabby - Sunday, April 5, 2020 - link
Lol how about you get a newer phone before bashing it.airdrifting - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
I am actually a very forgiving person, I gave them 4 chances but they botched all. And then there was the Samsung Note catching fire left and right while Samsung PR was lying to cover up, that was the last straw for me. I was very skeptical when I switched to Oneplus, but I was very impressed with the build quality and speedy updates, the only weak point was the camera.tuxRoller - Sunday, April 5, 2020 - link
Any thoughts as to why Huawei was having issues with the A77?BedfordTim - Sunday, April 5, 2020 - link
They say the battery life penalty means the extra performance isn't worth it. This fits with their energy use figures in the benchmarks which are very good. It also makes sense from a user perspective as the extra performance will not be noticeable in everyday use.iphonebestgamephone - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
How come qualcomm improved efficiency then? Its more like hisilicon had no time.Andrei Frumusanu - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
I don't think they had issue, they probably didn't have time.tuxRoller - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
You're probably right.Any idea as to why they were running late this time? The arm update cadence has been reliably in May since at least the A72.
** A - R ** - Sunday, April 5, 2020 - link
Andrei,For storage benchmarks, how about this (cpdt) app ?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com....
Andrei Frumusanu - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
It's not useful - there's very different aspects of storage performance on Android that's not covered by these traditional tests.Arian_amg - Sunday, April 5, 2020 - link
Thanks for great reviews:)I waited for this one like hell... With these Corona situations it's hard to find entertaining content and as always you nailed it best chipset reviews I've ever seen most will getaway with some benchmark and thats it
Im really looking forward for the dimensity 1000 and kirin 820 to get a proper understanding of new Valhalla cores with a proper node
(btw do you agree with huawei that they said they didn't use a77 because it didn't reach a certain clock(I know it had much higher ipc than a76)?)
Andrei Frumusanu - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
HiSilicon probably had less time to integrate the A77 and thus didn't reach good clocks.katakuri4744 - Wednesday, April 8, 2020 - link
Hi Andrei,Appreciate such a detailed article. I have one question, how did you pull the voltage curve, is there a command?
I had S10 exynos then upgraded it to S20+ exynos, both the articles had this voltage curve though the Snapdragon variant does not, I would like to check the same for my device as well.
helloworld_chip - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
Though 865's compute efficiency loks pretty good, from some other data points I heard that its infrastructure power (impacting real user-daily activities, light-loaded scenarios) is quite BAD. Would be good if more such comparisons are available to confirm this, since it determines how long people can actually use a phone.s.yu - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
Idle is relatively inefficient and the numbers here show.helloworld_chip - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
Gotcha thx.I am thinking we should calculate bat-capacity / hours instead of just hours to really show how is the SoCs overall efficiency.
Bigger and Bigger battery really make us feel heavier, we should push the designer harder to make these more efficiency instead of just using larger and larger battery.
FunBunny2 - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
"Bigger and Bigger battery really make us feel heavier, we should push the designer harder to make these more efficiency instead of just using larger and larger battery. "last time I looked, most of the battery goes to driving the screen. so resurrect your original iPhone. the notion that batteries will have increasing power density this millennium is fantasy. Li is the smallest source of electrons available. well, unless you're willing to carry around a Hindenburg in your pocket.
s.yu - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
Technically I'm with you but I just don't trust all developers to sufficiently optimize their code. You see that Peachncream guy who always claims that his dinosaur fossils run everything smoothly but it just doesn't happen to me. The way it is my S6E(backup device) that literally runs 3 apps in all(not even simultaneously, AFAIK) with animations turned off in dev mode is much slower than his...some really old low end phone, same thing with the battery, a large capacity gives me peace of mind over any optimization because I know that nothing could eat through the battery too fast.watzupken - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
This is the reason why I will not consider any Samsung Galaxy phone that is running on Exynos SOC. If it is on the low/ mid end, I can't complain about it. But when shelling out for a flagship, I don't see why one would pay the same amount for the slower variant and you don't have the choice to get the superior version locally.andyfrut - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
Is the S20+ (855) comparable with the S20 Ultra (855) in battery life in 120hz?andyfrut - Monday, April 6, 2020 - link
snapdragon 865*Ayaan_G - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
The 5G addition to the Samsung Galaxy series will really give it a boost in another level !Danish_92 - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
why are these big brands suddenly focusing on big cameras?surt - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
I'd say they're focusing on camera GPU performance, which are the two areas of the phone where performance is not yet 'good enough'. Everything else just ... works.s.yu - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
They're focusing on anything that makes a selling point that people could care about. They also focused on the haptic motors and most mid-high tier phones should vibrate better than those 3-4 years ago.watzupken - Wednesday, April 8, 2020 - link
Big brands are focusing on big cameras because they see Chinese phones, in particular Huawei, making a lot of waves in this area. Since it is very difficult to differentiate their products especially for Android phones, thus, whatever seems to rock with the consumer, every manufacturer will double down on the same features. First it was SOC, then they start spamming ram, follow by cameras, higher screen to body ratio, and now high refresh rate screen. You can tell Samsung is purely focusing on these areas I have mentioned as well.colonelclaw - Tuesday, April 7, 2020 - link
A slightly unfortunate time to launch such an expensive product. I don't know about you all, but right now I'm saving every penny I can.peevee - Wednesday, April 8, 2020 - link
"Why Samsung is able to call this a 3x telephoto module is that when cropping a 1:1 12MP picture out of it, it does end up at a 3x magnification in relation to the main camera sensor."3x magnification by the sensor would crop 8 out of 9 pixels. For 64MP original, it would be 7.1MP, not 12.
flyingpants265 - Thursday, April 9, 2020 - link
No front speakers = no buy.Crappy smartphone OS with no proper multitasking, on a phone with 16 gigs of RAM = no buy.
Can't turn off Google phoning home in software = no buy.
$999 = DEFINITELY no buy. Pay about $300 for a used S10. Don't be a sucker.
StrangerGuy - Thursday, April 9, 2020 - link
I just ordered a brand new SD845 Note 9 for $350 to replace my current Exynos Note 9 with OLED black banding issues out-of-warranty. Replacing the screen aftermarket would cost $250 alone.Anyway, I have no idea why anybody would want to pay $1000+ of IQ deficiency taxes for the current breed of half-baked Samsung phones. Even their home appliances and TVs are also rubbish in terms of value per dollar.
helloworld_chip - Sunday, April 12, 2020 - link
Do we have 990 kirin 5G GPU efficiency data for comparison? Would be glad to see if it also shows big efficiency improvements over the 4G version.snarfbot - Sunday, April 12, 2020 - link
How does the 855+ stack upSuraj tiwary - Sunday, April 12, 2020 - link
When will u start testing with Spec2017? Even arm despite being a marketer of its SOC uses both (spec2017 shows less scores) & U despite being a reviewer are too late.xGeoThumbs - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
I always come to these reviews for the photography comparison. They are done really well. Really surprised by the oversharpening on the Snapdragon model compared to the Exynos. The Pixel 4 would also do much better if you find the time to use the Night Sight feature during daytime photography. It improves white balance and detail rendition. Keep it up!damianrobertjones - Thursday, April 23, 2020 - link
The Amazon reviews, for this phone aren't the best in the world.Junphy - Thursday, May 7, 2020 - link
Why not add Mediatek Dimensity 1000 for a comparison ?hemingway9000 - Saturday, June 6, 2020 - link
Hi,could you guys somehow please investigate this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4F0L-soM1I
It seems that this "Game Optimizer Service" seems to be behind the problems caused in the s20 performance. It would be great if you could do a deep dive into it. Thank you.
Archer_Legend - Thursday, August 13, 2020 - link
Usaul amazing rewiew, i read it again after 6 months and it is done very wellspicekitkat - Monday, October 5, 2020 - link
Great article, when a phone comes out I'm really interested in the sound of that phone, hope it will have this sound: https://chakushinon123.com/samsung-s20-ultra/